That's a fine opinion to have, but I just think people should know that just because someone uses the word "walking simulator" or talks about a lack of interactivity doesn't mean that they agree with you. Those phrases aren't universally considered to be inherently negative, and I think that's a mistake a lot of posters (both ones that like Uncharted and ones that hate it) have been making.
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Eurogamer: Is Uncharted more 'walking simulator' than action game?
- Thread starter Raylan
- Start date
That's a fine opinion to have, but I just think people should know that just because someone uses the word "walking simulator" or talks about a lack of interactivity doesn't mean that they agree with you. Those phrases aren't universally considered to be inherently negative, and I think that's a mistake a lot of posters (both ones that like Uncharted and ones that hate it) have been making.
OverBlood 3
Banned
'Spunky'
I don't want to know what they get up to in private.
I don't want to know what they get up to in private.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
I don't think the people are shitting on Uncharted. They simply agree with the article. I've seen people say they like the article and agree with it, but like Uncharted.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Goddamn, what a graveyard.
I have to say, there is something hilarious about people having an issue with EG using the derisive term of "walking simulator" while at the same time dismissing the article (probably without even reading it) as "click bait".
I have to say, there isnt a ton of player agency in UC4 compared to other games, especially when the more modern trend in games seems to more and more being having these huge sandbox playgrounds for people to mess around in. It doesn't bother me. Coming from Dark Souls 3, UC4 is a pretty nice palette cleanser, but I can also see where people might have issue with it, or why it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
I have to say, there is something hilarious about people having an issue with EG using the derisive term of "walking simulator" while at the same time dismissing the article (probably without even reading it) as "click bait".
I have to say, there isnt a ton of player agency in UC4 compared to other games, especially when the more modern trend in games seems to more and more being having these huge sandbox playgrounds for people to mess around in. It doesn't bother me. Coming from Dark Souls 3, UC4 is a pretty nice palette cleanser, but I can also see where people might have issue with it, or why it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
pixellated_man
Member
Agreed. I personally love walking simulators! Equating parts of Uncharted to them is not inherently bad.
Please list out your specific complaints with the content within the article. Also, understand that "walking simulator" is not used derisively within the article and is actually used as a term of endearment.
Yeah, this is exactly where I land. The non-combat sequences in these games are consistently fantastic
I understand! Dismissing the article based ont he title, on either side, is real dumb. That we can agree on
pretty good analysis of the franchises pacing isn't it?
Jack The Nipper
Banned
walking around exploring, seeing the scenes is something I enjoy in a lot of games (Sort of some of this in FF12) but like I was trying to say earlier (before auto correct killed me)
If they can just focus on me playing more of the cut scenes without strict boundaries (would be fantastic). I was always a bigger supporter of the first of uc3 and uc1 overall compared to 2's tension moments which sort of have me wanting to eye roll ( I wont ) but just a bit tiresome.
I look forward to new things that are less uncharted like from them hopefully.
That's fine by itself, but the fact is these games are not only what wins awards these days but they're the only type of game you can find on store shelves. The style of gaming I'm into that once dominated the industry has been relegated to obscurity, you have to dig deep inside a pile of indie games to find a true gem. This is what makes it hard not to be cynical in discussions involving AAA games.
Personally, I still hate the "walking sim" term. It makes the game seem like you do absolutely nothing but walk around. But I guess it's similar to what people were saying when they said a game is "cinematic".
The article liked the game but I still disagree with them saying it's "akin" to those walking sims I played before. UC4 is no walking sim.
The article liked the game but I still disagree with them saying it's "akin" to those walking sims I played before. UC4 is no walking sim.
The term is definitely pejorative, because unless you are in the robotics industry, there's nothing interesting about simulating the process of walking. Everyone can do it just fine by themselves. As a sort of nom de guerre you could say it changed connotation to something that's not necessarily perjorative.
Isnt that what the setpieces are for?
Hydrophobic
Member
I am not sure I have ever really liked the term 'walking simulator' because it's felt non-descript at best and derisive at worst. When I reflect on my playthroughs of UC1 through 3 (I just got 4 and have barely started it), I can see where the author is coming from in this article. The long stretches without gunplay are somewhat unusual for games in the action genre. However, in games where I'm invested in action games where I'm invested in the story (which happens pretty easily. I'm a sucker for most writing, even if it's filled with tropes) I often find myself wishing the combat would take a break and the game would expand on the story. I think that's why I have enjoyed the UC series. I'm into this game for the characters, the scenery, and the story. I don't actively enjoy the style of combat quite so much and I think it's just a means to an end for me. If you're the opposite of me with this series, though, and you really like the combat then I could see how the long stretches without action could be a bit off-putting.
Also holy shit the front page is a graveyard.
Also holy shit the front page is a graveyard.
GreyOcelot
Member
there is a lot of telltale-ish story beats in uncharted 4, more so than previous games, but i think there's more player agency in 4 than any uncharted before it. there's options in how you approach combat scenarios, and the platforming sections aren't as automatic as they were in previous games, sometimes they are even borderline puzzle-like in trying to figure out how and where to traverse
This is not true at all
It started off as a pejorative but people started to notice that it was levied at games that were actually pretty fucking awesome and it, to those people, lost its sting. I wouldn't be the first person in a thread to use it, but I have no negative connotation with the phrase.
What style is that?
orthodoxy1095
Banned
This seems like a flawed way to think about Uncharted.
A "walking sim," a pejorative term usually, mind you, is a game that usually lacks the "traditional" things that many people expect from games.
When you think of a walking sim, you think of something like Proteus. Games that lack a fail state, games without clear goals, games without meaningful systems (besides movement) to interact with. I mean the term obviously is implying that there's nothing to do but walk around.
I just don't see how you can compare that to Uncharted. It's more akin to platformers and adventure games than a walking sim. I mean, isn't that what a "walking sim" is usually anyways? A heavily simplified adventure game?
A "walking sim," a pejorative term usually, mind you, is a game that usually lacks the "traditional" things that many people expect from games.
When you think of a walking sim, you think of something like Proteus. Games that lack a fail state, games without clear goals, games without meaningful systems (besides movement) to interact with. I mean the term obviously is implying that there's nothing to do but walk around.
I just don't see how you can compare that to Uncharted. It's more akin to platformers and adventure games than a walking sim. I mean, isn't that what a "walking sim" is usually anyways? A heavily simplified adventure game?
pixellated_man
Member
Man, you're hyping me up again! I took a break from the OT thread to escape from that, since it will be a while before I can actually play the game.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Yes, but in UC the set pieces are a bit too forced in certain scenes for me and it's a game trying to be many things while executing a lot of things very well it's always more gameplay that I want in a lot of the scenes they show, and more physics randomness instead of just another cut scene.
Game is not bad by any means but I really got tired of their direction in UC2. I have yet to play UC4 but I am sure they will have loads of little scenes that urk me a bit. Usually why I stick to playing these games once. I am really excited to play and see the story out though.
I dont mind the action or interactive bits of Soma because they dont throw a lot of cuts and watching things happen at me. They just let me play it out
Now, obviously some cut scenes are fine, some over the top action is fine (MGS did it) MGS 2's opening was amazing. I think they need to learn from that even though I woul agree it would have been even better to play out MGS 2's cut scenes (man now I want that) lol
yea, i agree.
chronic_archaic
Member
I'm guessing a big reason this article is getting so much flak is due to how big of a franchise Uncharted is. Truth to be told - it could be argued about a lot of other AAA games, though it seems like they're trying to make a case that Uncharted 2 has less player agency than any other huge game. Even games like COD only slow down for a few minutes at a time and then you have stuff in the genre like Rise of the Tomb Raider which gives you complete player agency shortly after you boot it up. It's a valid complaint but not exactly a bad one if you don't mind it. I can't remember how much Golden Abyss had in the way of this but I still beat it and had a lot of fun.
High Fry Frow
Member
Naughty Dog games can bring out the worst in this forum.
People splitting hairs over an article they didn't read, decided a website has "gone downhill" because they disagree with the "click bait" title.
People splitting hairs over an article they didn't read, decided a website has "gone downhill" because they disagree with the "click bait" title.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. In-fact I think what made Uncharted 2, and the franchise so revolutionary or ground breaking at the time, was the interactivity within those set piece moments, which most games would generally relegate to being cutscenes prior to it. Things like having a gunfight inside a collapsing building, or within a capsizing cruise ship during a violent storm, or an aeroplane that blows up mid flight and crashes in a desert, a train that passes through an entire region seamlessly, and ends up in the Himalaya's following a helicopter fight and then a massive vehicular chase and combat sequence, where you can actually hop to and from different jeeps, trucks etc, mid chase and mid combat etc.
Whilst these set pieces are of course still linear in nature, which I think they have to be mechanically in order to have the same impact, the whole selling point of them is that they offer interactivity to moments that would otherwise be too bombastic or outrageous to typically involve gameplay.
GinoFelino
Member
I love Eurogamer and I'm not an Uncharted fanboy in the slightest, but this article is absolute horseshit.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Uncharted is a theme park ride
I can believe that based on the E3 demo I saw last year of that mountain level. It was an improvement over the last games but it didn't feel organic, there's still the problem that your actions feel pre-determined. I think it's because of the context sensitive nature of the platforming, meaning if you're close enough to a certain point you will always perform the exact same animation and it will register as either a success or failiure, nothing in between. The platforming is binary system with no nuance to it, all you do is get in position and click a button; there's no skill element involved. Like for example in Mario how much you hold the jump button determines the height of the jump, which gives the game a wide spectrum of different jumps. I get that Uncharted is primarily a shooter but it doesn't excuse how boring the platforming parts feel.
Fanboy attitude for those games doesn't create a graveyard of a thread for an article that is actually positive about said games.
I don't even hate the Uncharted games. I even wrote that they were well designed in my very post. What kind of comfirmation bias am I apparently trying to apply here? That Uncharted fans are a little more rabid that most? Because again, this thread is sort of proving that.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I am literally taking positively about the game itself and yet my opinion is still trying to be dismissed. It's literally making what I can only assume is a great game not all that appealing. No other game or community does this to me.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Just because your main character's a white male doesn't suddenly make it a walking simulator. That has to be the dumbest hoop-jumping to a conclusion I've seen from a "journalist" in a while. I could write better articles on a hospital bed.
Dear Ester is a walking simulator, quite literally. Firewatch to a huge degree is a walking simulator. Uncharted features gun fights, platforming, and puzzle-solving. By that merit, why not cast every third-person action/adventure game as a walking simulator? Why not do the same for platforming games as well? If you're willing to denigrate it that far, might as well.
I say this not even being a massive fan of the Uncharted games; I'm just very tired of this lazy journalism and the saps who get paid to write it. That money could be going to better writers.
Dear Ester is a walking simulator, quite literally. Firewatch to a huge degree is a walking simulator. Uncharted features gun fights, platforming, and puzzle-solving. By that merit, why not cast every third-person action/adventure game as a walking simulator? Why not do the same for platforming games as well? If you're willing to denigrate it that far, might as well.
I say this not even being a massive fan of the Uncharted games; I'm just very tired of this lazy journalism and the saps who get paid to write it. That money could be going to better writers.
It really is. Like, what the hell does a character's ethnicity have to do with making a game a walking simulator or not? I don't even necessarily care if the rest of the article brings up a valid point; the fact it starts off so stupidly and doesn't play it off for laughs tells me the extent of whatever logic they're using to arrive at their conclusions.
Insane Metal
Member
Wow, I read the first page and it looks like a graveyard... 
I'm playing the game and loving it. But yeah, some of the things they said in the article are indeed true.
I'm playing the game and loving it. But yeah, some of the things they said in the article are indeed true.
Thank you bud!
I respectfully disagree. Uncharted or I think what ND was always aiming was story plot and exploration. With the Last Of Us was story plot and survival. Im not saying to avoid combat, but to Ballance it more with the story plot. I don't think that the combat is an essence of Uncharted or Last of Us. I don't think that the combat is a main feature in the single player game. But it is just my opinion. Nor Uncharted or Last of Us use gunplay to be a vehicle for telling the story (like FPS)
SerTapTap
Member
That's almost the opposite of what Naughty Dog "exploration" gameplay is though. You don't explore in Telltale games, you only have the story. While I enjoy Naughty Dog's stories to a degree, they're not half of what they are if I'm locked in Telltale's dialog trees almost exclusively.
I'd probably refrain from calling the article clickbait or terrible without any explanation of why you feel that way.
I'm jut basing that on like the first few pages of this thread...
OT..
They're on point there...and some games do try that when they really shouldn't be! Developers need to make sure their design and mechanics match the style of game, or they lose their direction with the game. Uncharted works due to all the details and the fact that you just want to see what is next. Even if you don't have a ton of interactivity and necessarily "options" in many set-pieces, they make it one heck of a ride.
I will point out that Naughty Dog's games don't have a lot of replay-ability for me unless I don't collect and find a lot of things. That's why I enjoy the series though, I loved 2..and just finding and reading/looking at the artifacts is something I loved doing. Once I found everything/enough to be satisfied I haven't been back as the sequences and scenery didn't change any. That first time through is great though.
I know I'm well beneath the majority here, but I mostly agree with the article.
recently I played 1 and 2 from the nathan drake collections and while I completely see the narrating appeal of the games, they are pretty terrible at being... games...
the puzzles are always linear making them a one way solution that always leads them to only 1 possible outcome, there are no alternate paths, not alternate solutions, not alternate nothing, they are pretty much what I would expect from a first game experience of an starting gamer, nothing deep, yet entertaining for the cutscenes.
the gameplay of the gun sections are also really weird as there are no progression whatsoever in anything, by this I mean: you pick a gun, shoot the enemies, at most pick another gun, shoot the enemies, oh! throw a grenade because it could be fun, then go forward to another linear walk section or a cutscene. I know I'm in the well minority here, but I saw this games as extremely basic, very linear and with no gameplay progression at all.
I might be wrong with this, and I would like a lot to be proven wrong, so please go ahead and make me change my mind, but when I played this 2 games (1 and 2), I saw nothing about a good game, but more about a good movie with gameplay sections, I never saw an appeal to play them more, to explore more of the gameplay it has.
this is a very good thought, and one of the things that came to my mind while playing these games
recently I played 1 and 2 from the nathan drake collections and while I completely see the narrating appeal of the games, they are pretty terrible at being... games...
the puzzles are always linear making them a one way solution that always leads them to only 1 possible outcome, there are no alternate paths, not alternate solutions, not alternate nothing, they are pretty much what I would expect from a first game experience of an starting gamer, nothing deep, yet entertaining for the cutscenes.
the gameplay of the gun sections are also really weird as there are no progression whatsoever in anything, by this I mean: you pick a gun, shoot the enemies, at most pick another gun, shoot the enemies, oh! throw a grenade because it could be fun, then go forward to another linear walk section or a cutscene. I know I'm in the well minority here, but I saw this games as extremely basic, very linear and with no gameplay progression at all.
I might be wrong with this, and I would like a lot to be proven wrong, so please go ahead and make me change my mind, but when I played this 2 games (1 and 2), I saw nothing about a good game, but more about a good movie with gameplay sections, I never saw an appeal to play them more, to explore more of the gameplay it has.
this is a very good thought, and one of the things that came to my mind while playing these games
orthodoxy1095
Banned
This seems like one of those cases where if we're going to just be careless with slapping the term "walking sim" on games, the term will lose any meaning. You can critique Uncharted for being too linear, too easy, too cinematic, too lacking in player input, but that's not what makes a walking sim.
Death to genre labels tho.
Your post was a mini outburst about something that isn't really true though. Uncharted 4 is privy to criticism, as the OT, numerous impressions threads and even this thread prove. The only alternative conclusion is that you're randomly having a go at a very small group of people who exist with every medium or major product or game, but don't necessarily even pertain to this actual thread or the OP. I just don't get the context or relevance of the post.
SerTapTap
Member
This is a very strange criticism to levy IMO. Most NES games, platformers, shoot 'em ups etc, very much "gamey" games, follow all of these points. Linear, no level up systems or craftable gear. That really has nothing to do with "not being good at being a game".
Has Open World ruined us so much that we don't see things as games without pseudo-open endedness and progress bars?
I wouldn't mind losing the walking sim label TBH, though I enjoy most games in the 'genre". "exploration game" seems to be the less-pejorative (but less popular) label FWIW.
Fallout-NL
Member
potatohead
Member
Should we even be allowed to walk in games?
The game should just skip all those scenes entirely. I mean really who actually cared what happened in those exploring sequences. They didn't add anything worthwhile to the game at all.
They clearly didn't matter, and I think we should all feel bad if we enjoyed any of the walking or climbing in Uncharted.
Next time I hope we just teleport to all the combat sequences and call it a day.
The game should just skip all those scenes entirely. I mean really who actually cared what happened in those exploring sequences. They didn't add anything worthwhile to the game at all.
They clearly didn't matter, and I think we should all feel bad if we enjoyed any of the walking or climbing in Uncharted.
Next time I hope we just teleport to all the combat sequences and call it a day.
I think I would be upset if Uncharted 4 had an experience system and ability upgrades in the singleplayer. It's just so contrary to what they are trying to do with Uncharted 4 imo.
It was definitely pejorative to begin with.
The etymology behind it is that it was coined by people being critical of games like Dear Esther. That all these games functionally do is simulate 'walking', similarly to how Microsoft Flight Simulator simulates flying aircraft but of course 'walking' is a mundane activity.
The phrase 'walking simulator' started as a slight against games where the only mechanic or gameplay feature is 'to walk'.
Since then, the term has grown arms and legs a bit and I'd agree that it is no longer a pejorative phrase. 'Walking simulator' has come to infer a whole genre. Which is a good thing.
Still, the roots are in a critical, snide remark about games where you physically can't do much.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I agree. I'd prefer to use something like "exploration" or something that tries to look beyond the base mechanic of walking.
Regardless, Uncharted 4 doesn't fit the label, not even remotely.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
This post makes it obvious that theres no way you read the article. It's arguing the opposite of that.
qa_engineer
Member
This thread has a high body count. Mods are not fucking around, guys.
potatohead
Member
That's good then.
What a title though.
I personally hope we get more linear games with wider gameplay spaces like Uncharted 4 really.
Of all the open world games I've played I can count on my fingers how many I actually had fun with. I really don't think the space between all the combat and just driving around generally really raises the bar for games universally. But I did like it in some games like RDR a lot.
Can you give some examples of games which don't follow what you say here? Specifically re puzzles.
Also, try playing on Hard or Crushing. Ups the combat ante a lot and makes it infinitely more compelling in Uncharted 2 and 4 (if you're into challenging/strategic gameplay).
Glass Shark
Banned
It's really sad that a writer is not allowed to have an opinion these days without it being lambasted as "clickbait" or "bad journalism." I don't understand how people can be so insecure about their likes and dislikes.
The open world design fad this generation has been disappointing for me personally. I'm almost sick of them at this point, but games all too often get criticised for not employing open world elements, even racing games (sigh), and consumers seem to love them, so I guess we're stuck for the time being. Even UC4 to an extent had to pseudo adapt what with the inclusion of some wider, more open linear areas to satisfy that lust. Thankfully they tastefully addressed this, and the slightly more open areas don't detract from an otherwise still linear and directed overall experience.