Support NeoGAF

[Schrödinger's cat]

Genuine question, are you on the spectrum?

FWIW, I think the current understanding is that everyone is on the spectrum. The question is where.

[proceeds to align my pens neatly on my desk]

That's better.

 

[Yoshi]

Right...
You just kind of proved my point; you may have not done it more than once, but it opens the door to it being used more often and normalized
Why are you asking her to verify she exists?

What? I was saying if someone was repeatedly asking "does X exist" when they themselves are an example of X, then they are asking me to verify they exist. I am not asking anyone to verify they exist.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

What? I was saying if someone was repeatedly asking "does X exist" when they themselves are an example of X, then they are asking me to verify they exist. I am not asking anyone to verify they exist.

I can't explain it any better than I have previously tried
It might behoove you to take a speech and debate course at your local learning annex if you're still having trouble understanding why that is not a valid argument and will get you booted from a meet.

 

[Yoshi]

I can't explain it any better than I have previously tried

Explaining something that is wrong is not necessary. It is sufficient for you to understand why what you said is does not make any sense.

It might behoove you to take a speech and debate course at your local learning annex if you're still having trouble understanding why that is not a valid argument and will get you booted from a meet.

I do not think I require a speech and debate course. I have no intention to change jobs to politics.

 

[ThatGamingDude]

I do not think I require a speech and debate course. I have no intention to change jobs to politics.

You don't need to want a career in politics to know how to formally discuss a topic where opposing parties hold different values
Wouldn't it make sense for those video games journalists to move into politics if they want to speak and debate politics?

Anyways, there's not much more to discuss IMO, so I'll just be lurking now

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Name'em and shame'em, people.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Delete post

 

[MaxB]

You don't need left wing or right wing. You need to leave your bullshit ideals out of game reviews and discussions. I can't stomach that shit.

I literally go to youtubers like Spawnwave for my news because it's literally just the news and very little else.

For reviews: GameXplain and a few others depends on my mood.

They might be left wing or right and I just don't care if they don't bring it up it's their business and not mine.

What ideals are being imposed upon the readers of gaming reviews that you won't find in every other critique of popular media? Can you provide some examples? It would seem, if the industry were to adopt your preferred method of appraisal, that the reviews would read something to the effect of, "These graphics sure are pretty. The guns were very loud and went "BOOM!" The colors were bright and fun to look at. This game is awesome."

 

[mcjmetroid]

What ideals are being imposed upon the readers of gaming reviews that you won't find in every other critique of popular media? Can you provide some examples? It would seem, if the industry were to adopt your preferred method of appraisal, that the reviews would read something to the effect of, "These graphics sure are pretty. The guns were very loud and went "BOOM!" The colors were bright and fun to look at. This game is awesome."

You mean the reviews would talk about the game and not talk about how it's racist or how the word "Savage" shouldn't be used? (A kotaku review recently literally did this)
Most reviews pre 2005 or so were like this. A lot of reviews are still like this, you just have to avoid the troublemaker sites.

 

[MaxB]

You mean the reviews would talk about the game and not talk about how it's racist or how the word "Savage" shouldn't be used? (A kotaku review recently literally did this)
Most reviews pre 2005 or so were like this. A lot of reviews are still like this, you just have to avoid the troublemaker sites.

But how can you "talk about the game" without touching upon the themes its narrative might invite a discussion of? If a game were set during the Civil War, are we not to discuss the theme of slavery and how its depiction in a game was either problematic and revisionist or helpful to a dialogue surrounding its evil? Were the game set thousands of years later, in a time when we should have moved well beyond the divisions of present day, would it not be helpful to the growing number gamers seeking out diverse stories and casts to inform them if the presence of minorities was practically non-existent and that all main characters were cis white men?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

But how can you "talk about the game" without touching upon the themes its narrative might invite a discussion of? If a game were set during the Civil War, are we not to discuss the theme of slavery and how its depiction in a game was either problematic and revisionist or helpful to a dialogue surrounding its evil? Were the game set thousands of years later, in a time when we should have moved well beyond the divisions of present day, would it not be helpful to the growing number gamers seeking out diverse stories and casts to inform them if the presence of minorities was practically non-existent and that all main characters were cis white men?

Are you able to form an argument without resorting to strawman tactics? Serious question. You're moreso arguing against your own misunderstanding of the topic than the person you are replying to.

 

[MaxB]

Are you able to form an argument without resorting to strawman tactics? Serious question. You're moreso arguing against your own misunderstanding of the topic than the person you are replying to.

That's your read, I guess. I'm responding to someone who said reviewers should just "talk about the game."

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

That's your read, I guess. I'm responding to someone who said reviewers should just "talk about the game."

So your characterization that the reviews would read something to the effect of, "These graphics sure are pretty. The guns were very loud and went "BOOM!" The colors were bright and fun to look at. This game is awesome." wasn't a strawman?

Heh. Okay.

 

[MaxB]

So your characterization that the reviews would read something to the effect of, "These graphics sure are pretty. The guns were very loud and went "BOOM!" The colors were bright and fun to look at. This game is awesome." wasn't a strawman?

Heh. Okay.

Within the context of a thread stemming from an argument to excise "politics" from game reviews, in response to someone who said he's tired of reviewers inserting their views into gaming critiques and just wants them to "talk about the game," not at all.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You have to remember, this is the same guy who said you are a pedophile for liking big breasted adult animated characters (Sorceress from Dragon's Crown). His "debate" with YongYea only further showed how much of an idiot he truly is. The only reason people even know his name is because he does the absolute bare minimum of investigative journalism every 4 or so months. Even then, they are heavily skewed/biased towards his side. Just look at the Rockstar "expose" and the numerous employees that called him out for not including the interviews they did with him, making it seem worse than it really is.

This. The dude is an ideological hack with some literature and creative writing skills.

Can't hang in the shit tiered MSM or the like, so he preys on the minds of gamers with the dogmatic crusade. Found his niche.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Within the context of a thread stemming from an argument to excise "politics" from game reviews, in response to someone who said he's tired of reviewers inserting their views into gaming critiques and just wants them to "talk about the game," not at all.

That is not a response. It's almost like you don't have an argument and you're just here to stir shit by baiting people, misrepresenting their statements, and piling on a ton of empty questions instead of directly addressing those who call you out.

Ya stick out like a sore thumb. At least try to put in 50 posts and take it to the Politics board before you out yourself.

 

[zeorhymer]

But how can you "talk about the game" without touching upon the themes its narrative might invite a discussion of? If a game were set during the Civil War, are we not to discuss the theme of slavery and how its depiction in a game was either problematic and revisionist or helpful to a dialogue surrounding its evil? Were the game set thousands of years later, in a time when we should have moved well beyond the divisions of present day, would it not be helpful to the growing number gamers seeking out diverse stories and casts to inform them if the presence of minorities was practically non-existent and that all main characters were cis white men?

Applying real world politics with in-game politics is what turns off a lot of people. I know that slavery is bad, but I don't want to get beat over the head with it. I don't want to read another garbage Greedfall article that a game perpetuates colonization or that Kingdom Come Deliverance doesn't have black representation.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

What ideals are being imposed upon the readers of gaming reviews that you won't find in every other critique of popular media? Can you provide some examples? It would seem, if the industry were to adopt your preferred method of appraisal, that the reviews would read something to the effect of, "These graphics sure are pretty. The guns were very loud and went "BOOM!" The colors were bright and fun to look at. This game is awesome."

Call of Duty White Phosphorus. A game featuring Guns, Knives, Nukes, Gas Grenades, Drone Strikes, Molotovs... and somehow websites and publications completely unconnected (
) with each other all found it to be offensive and way too far. You can argue even that in cases like this it isn't just their politics in play, but rather just their ego and elitism. That they desire to be thought leaders and sway public opinion.

Kotaku and Spiderman take on NYPD is out of touch. Of course this was written by a White Journalist

Kingdom Come and sites refusal to review or mention it *except mentioning they won't review it.

Any of those?

 

[MaxB]

Applying real world politics with in-game politics is what turns off a lot of people. I know that slavery is bad, but I don't want to get beat over the head with it. I don't want to read another garbage Greedfall article that a game perpetuates colonization or that Kingdom Come Deliverance doesn't have black representation.

But most "in game" politics is informed by real world politics, the line between art and reality blurred to the point that what we create is almost always a comment on what we experience. And, if I recall correctly, I don't believe most objections to Kingdom Come Deliverance were rooted in the lack of "black" people; there were concerns that all manner of non-Anglo representation in what was touted as a historical RPG were missing. Why is it inappropriate for game reviewers of a "historical RPG," whose breadth of social, political and cultural references from its setting were touted by the game's developer as a hallmark achievement in the CRPG genre, to not address the historical inaccuracies in its design?

 

[Mochilador]

Amazing work, sophnar0747 !!

Great work as always sophnar0747 . It's glaringly obvious from outside of the bubble, but may not be to those within.


Cue Gamespot Far Cry 5 video where these emaciated San Francisco boys don't understand why a conservative from Montana isn't automatically portrayed as a villain:

Holy shit, that's amazing haha.

 

[Durask]

"That game you like is woke"

That game is woke and you SHOULD like it.

 

[Fun Fanboy]

Jason Schreier has basically confirmed what Sophia Narwitz has reported. He can't name a single right-leaning employee at his organization, and he has blocked anyone who has challenged him on this issue. He could have shut this entire debate down in 20 seconds if he was right about this being "conspiracy theory nonsense." Instead, he ran back to the safety of his bubble. Obviously, the guy is too unhinged to deal with the real world.

Sweet Dee would call him a soy boy beta cuck.

 

[Durask]

He noped out of this convo so fast he went back for a second round of paternity leave

Funny how he did not even have the courage to say something like "Yes we think conservatives are horrible people and yes we will never hire one."

 

[zeorhymer]

Why is it inappropriate for game reviewers of a "historical RPG," whose breadth of social, political and cultural references from its setting were touted by the game's developer as a hallmark achievement in the CRPG genre, to not address the historical inaccuracies in its design?

It wasn't because the "historical RPG" was not accurate, the faux outrage was because the developers were bigots and racists. So again, I don't care if reviewers comments about the in-game universe racism etc etc, but when they try to use real world lens on it, they're using the game as a soapbox to push their narrative.

"Kingdom Come outrage: MSM offended by the game’s lack of inclusivity"

Andreas, RockPaperShotgun, said that the developers were merely masking their bigotry under the guise of recreating historical accuracy and refused to score the game. He echoes outrage medias sentiment by declaring Kingdom Come racist.

Charlie Hall at Polygon joined the Kingdom Come outrage called it a beautiful but boring game with a narrative that is outdated in the current year. He also felt insulted because “his mother is a Bohemian descendent” and the game, for him, did not accurately portray his heritage. “Warhorse is a team of more than 150 people, but the game’s creative director has gone out of his way to rationalise his support of GamerGate, a loosely knit hate group that has devoted time to harassing women, people of colour and journalists in the past,” he wrote.

 

[GymWolf]

I already had an headache just by reading the topic title...

 

[GymWolf]

This implies that people take gaming journalists seriously. They don't.

Lol you have no idea...
A shitload of people wait for reviews to decide if they are gonna buy a game.

Because experience and your hears and eyes are less important than what a mediocre skilled wannabe journalist has to say...

 

[Durask]

Were the game set thousands of years later, in a time when we should have moved well beyond the divisions of present day, would it not be helpful to the growing number gamers seeking out diverse stories and casts to inform them if the presence of minorities was practically non-existent and that all main characters were cis white men?

If someone is seeking out diverse stories then that can be sorted out by the market. Moreover, those who want representation can start making their own games and have them stand on their merits in the market.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

It wasn't because the "historical RPG" was not accurate, the faux outrage was because the developers were bigots and racists. So again, I don't care if reviewers comments about the in-game universe racism etc etc, but when they try to use real world lens on it, they're using the game as a soapbox to push their narrative.

"Kingdom Come outrage: MSM offended by the game’s lack of inclusivity"

Don’t forget the Overwatch Female player outrage. Player was named Ellie I think

Or the Battlefield 5 “fan base is angry about women inclusion” lies

 

[Moneal]

Why is it inappropriate for game reviewers of a "historical RPG," whose breadth of social, political and cultural references from its setting were touted by the game's developer as a hallmark achievement in the CRPG genre, to not address the historical inaccuracies in its design?

THe game wasn't historically inaccurate. They had multiple actual historians consult and even had one on staff full time. Maybe if these reviewers even attempted to contact the game makers they would have known about that. It wasn't hard. I knew about it.

Just takes a basic google search to find something like this.

Kingdom Come: Deliverance Is So Historically Accurate Historians Are Consulting The Dev Team | XboxAchievements.com

Kingdom Come: Deliverance is an open world RPG game whose gameplay philosophy is apparently 'dungeons, but no dragons'. &nbsp...

www.xboxachievements.com

The lead on the game even got into arguments with well known game jurons over it on twitter. So, some of them even knew about it and still put up their incorrect bullshit.

 

[MaxB]

Jason Schreier has basically confirmed what Sophia Narwitz has reported. He can't name a single right-leaning employee at his organization, and he has blocked anyone who has challenged him on this issue. He could have shut this entire debate down in 20 seconds if he was right about this being "conspiracy theory nonsense." Instead, he ran back to the safety of his bubble. Obviously, the guy is too unhinged to deal with the real world.

You act as if not hiring a "right leaning" employee is a bad thing. WTF?

 

[-Arcadia-]

Well, it seems like Neogaf is the right wing Resetera. Despite you guys claiming you just want to have fun with videogames, i can see politics and SJW related articles on gaming side growing at an alarming rate.

For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".

I'm anxiously waiting for a warning or a ban for speaking the truth. I just can't stand hypocrisy. Neogaf is not chill at all lately, it's all about left wing and Sjw that want to ruin videogame industry, this is another article added to the pile.

You see left wing conspiracy where there isn't, just like they see right wing conspiracy where there isn't. From my experience reading variuos videogame websites skills have always been rewarded and i see there is enough balance in right wing and left wing leaning videogame journalists presence.

Tell me where the bad forum touched you.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

If someone is seeking out diverse stories then that can be sorted out by the market. Moreover, those who want representation can start making their own games and have them stand on their merits in the market.

Don’t forget that development teams and game journalists teams that are constantly either raging over the need for diversity or celebrating diversity currently in their ranks are made up of almost all White people. As an example

The Strength Diversity Brings to the Halo Universe

Official site for 343 Industries, guardians of the Halo franchise.

www.343industries.com

So diverse. The numbers these companies touting of minority representation and diversity consists mostly of White Women and White LGBTQ members.

 

[MaxB]

If someone is seeking out diverse stories then that can be sorted out by the market. Moreover, those who want representation can start making their own games and have them stand on their merits in the market.

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? As gaming sales show, diverse casts sell exceptionally well, so it seems the market has sorted it out rather convincingly. The idea that marginalized groups who want representation can start their own companies is a reductive and shortsighted deflection from an industry wide problem. Those in power, the ones wielding the resources to produce the games, are who we should be holding accountable for the lack of diverse stories and casts in the gaming sphere - not the people whose very status makes it difficult for them to even find employment in that industry.

 

[Moneal]

Don’t forget that development teams and game journalists teams that are constantly either raging over the need for diversity or celebrating diversity currently in their ranks are made up of almost all White people. As an example

The Strength Diversity Brings to the Halo Universe

Official site for 343 Industries, guardians of the Halo franchise.

www.343industries.com

So diverse. The numbers these companies touting of minority representation and diversity consists mostly of White Women and White LGBTQ members.

Hey, there is actually quite a few Asians in that pic.

 

[Barnabot]

You act as if not hiring a "right leaning" employee is a bad thing. WTF?

whyyyyyyyyyyyy?

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Hey, there is actually quite a few Asians in that pic.

LOL and it's just their diversity picture. So their ranks are mostly filled with White People, mostly White Men. Their Diversity Picture is majority White lol smh

 

[Plague Doctor]

Good article. An entire industry built of ragebait and access journalism, seeing their readers as a metric and not their audience, would definitely talk with each other to subvert the messaging and control of that metric. At best they are tabloid tier journalist pushing sensation, and with that in mind, why anyone gives them any sort of credence is beyond me.

I am happy their platforms are crashing and burning from a lack of interest and readership. Slink off into obscurity.

Isn't it sad to know corporations see vastly more value in streamers than they do of your pseudo-intellectual pontification? You are an outdated relic desperately trying to cling to relevance. So sad. Fuck off.

Always remember, don't give them clicks and if you have to give them clicks, use an ad blocker. Use archive sites to share their articles if you want to dunk on them. Starve them of the traffic.

 

[Durask]

Why is it inappropriate for game reviewers of a "historical RPG," whose breadth of social, political and cultural references from its setting were touted by the game's developer as a hallmark achievement in the CRPG genre, to not address the historical inaccuracies in its design?

Maybe it is because those reviewers were lying?

 

[-Arcadia-]

Reminder to everyone, the zombies are cute, but don’t let them derail an entire thread to focus on their insanity. Lots of interesting things to talk about here.

One might almost say that’s their goal, judging how they swarm on these topics, and these topics alone.

 

[StormCell]

We need to bring back 90's style gaming journalism. I'd pay for that.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'm anxiously waiting for a warning or a ban for speaking the truth. I just can't stand hypocrisy. Neogaf is not chill at all lately, it's all about left wing and Sjw that want to ruin videogame industry, this is another article added to the pile.

You see left wing conspiracy where there isn't, just like they see right wing conspiracy where there isn't. From my experience reading variuos videogame websites skills have always been rewarded and i see there is enough balance in right wing and left wing leaning videogame journalists presence.

Where are the right wing games journalist that are known parts of major publications.

Name them, and then ask yourself if the number of them you found is equal to the number of openly left-wing “game journalists”.

Hint: It’s not even close.

 

[Whitesnake]

The idea that marginalized groups who want representation can start their own companies is a reductive and shortsighted deflection from an industry wide problem.

If only you had the self-awareness to be able to apply this idea to the industry of games journalism.

 

[SpiceRacz]

Well, it seems like Neogaf is the right wing Resetera. Despite you guys claiming you just want to have fun with videogames, i can see politics and SJW related articles on gaming side growing at an alarming rate.

For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".

Where are you getting that this site is right-wing? Because people here push back against extreme-leftist/woke bullshit? As a whole, GAF is mostly left-leaning. There are regulars here that lean right, but they don't represent everyone. Just because those right-wing people are visible to you on GAF (and aren't automatically banned like on ERA), doesn't mean the site is right-wing. That's just some dumb shit you've made up in your mind.

On another note, isn't it nice that you have the freedom to say things like this without fear of being banned?

 

[Whitesnake]

I'm anxiously waiting for a warning or a ban for speaking the truth. I just can't stand hypocrisy. Neogaf is not chill at all lately, it's all about left wing and Sjw that want to ruin videogame industry, this is another article added to the pile.

orange forum bad

 

[Animagic]

This all started at 1up. 1up had cool video content and then it fractured and many of the people filtered from journalism into key production or pr positions at major game companies. That this was an acceptable step from enthusiast press should have been a big red flag.

Now I’m not saying EVERYONE that once worked at 1up and entered the industry is a Marxist, but a logical conclusion can be drawn that gatekeeping occurred even back then in the young digital enthusiast press days in San Francisco and then grew to be an acceptable part of how things are done.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Well, it seems like Neogaf is the right wing Resetera. Despite you guys claiming you just want to have fun with videogames, i can see politics and SJW related articles on gaming side growing at an alarming rate.

For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".

You just won the "dumbest fucking post" award for the month. Wasn't even a competition, really.

Most of the folks here are left-leaning, such as myself. We are tired of the BS that sites like Era, Kotaku, Polygon, Eurogamer, etc push and peddle. Now, if you removed your head from your arse, you would come to see that people here don't want to "destroy progressives", they simply want sanity where there is currently none. Though, given your posts it clearly seems you side with the insane that publish shit like "Spidercop is evil!" or how "NPCs have rights too!".

Leave your idiotic cult and see reality for a change.

 

[StormCell]

Well, it seems like Neogaf is the right wing Resetera. Despite you guys claiming you just want to have fun with videogames, i can see politics and SJW related articles on gaming side growing at an alarming rate.

For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".

bigol, I think you haven't spent any amount of time at Resetera if you think this place is any kind of version of that shit hole. You're still here posting, aren't you? They would have already banned you over there just because your opinion doesn't conform. You will find others like yourself posting here and people you can actually hold a full debate with without them or yourself getting nuked.

 

[Clear]

The problem with getting any traction for change on this is that the "problem" is the absence of something. Specifically any sort of dissenting/deviating opinion from the boiler-plate progressive/intersectionalist rhetoric.

Its a hard thing to pin down because as with all the rest of authoritarian leftism, they hide behind legitimate concerns. Its basically "think of the children v2.0". The desire isn't for voices exclaiming "fuck the children!", its for people to point out how conveniently faddishly performative all this stuff is.

The big lie is that everything operates on a binary morality, where being tired of the chatter about inclusiveness means you must be pro exclusion! Which is bullshit of course, but precisely what they'll connote it as.

 

[Durask]

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? As gaming sales show, diverse casts sell exceptionally well, so it seems the market has sorted it out rather convincingly. The idea that marginalized groups who want representation can start their own companies is a reductive and shortsighted deflection from an industry wide problem. Those in power, the ones wielding the resources to produce the games, are who we should be holding accountable for the lack of diverse stories and casts in the gaming sphere - not the people whose very status makes it difficult for them to even find employment in that industry.

I'd like to see some real numbers about the claim that "diverse casts sell exceptionally well". I am not willing to just accept this as fact.
Sell well compared to what? Of course I could be wrong but I have a very strong suspicion that this is an outright fabrication.

We should be holding accountable? Who is "we"? Is this predicated on the assumption that there is some huge market being missed or is it predicated on the assumption that diversity is a good in itself (without having any relevance to profitability).

 

[zeorhymer]

NPCs have rights too!

Of course they need equal rights! Where else am I going to buy my equipment and get mundane tasks to level up!