Support NeoGAF

[ethomaz]

Gavin Stevens under NDA?

Can we PLEASE stop this utterly stupid narrative that has no basis on reality? Please?! This is borderline 9tf bullshit!

It is true thought.

Lower hardware holds software development for newer hardware... that is true on PC too and that is why exists a minimum requirement to the developers not get hold by too old hardware.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Streaming is not gonna take over, connections are so far behind that would mean losing customers everywhere. Let alone games that requires precisions like fps, platforms, hack n slashes... let alone multiplayer also. And anyway an industry where the main market is streaming has yet to prove to be economically sustenable without drastic changes.
It took two generations to see digital purchases take over retail since 2005 (as far as I know), and we're just talking about download. Streaming? Lmao.

I won't say it it took 2 gens.
Yes they had some DD games in the PS3\360 gen but not day and date and not even some AAA games.
This gen is where everything was in place for DD and we near 50% and it will grow with next gen .
Streaming will take a while of course but gen are now 7 years and market share will grow a big amount in that time.

 

[LED Guy?]

I’m not under NDA. The thing I’m under is my wife. BOOM.

YO LMAO!! You guys are the best!

That made my day, thanks man!

 

[Aceofspades]

What happened in here today?
Summary pls

It seems like nothing of importance.

 

[SlimySnake]

I don't really understand what BGs is talking about.

Sony has some kind of 8GB surprise incoming for their hardware?

What could it *possibly* be? HBM is the only thing I can think of, but nothing seems to point to that and I feel like we would have had stronger hints of that.

Lots of DKs but only one retail? The one that is famously under lock and key, according to Osiris?

I'm so confused and wish they'd just talk.

hes saying they will have a mic drop moment like they did with 8GB GDDR5 last gen.

and yes its either 14 tflops or hbm.

the ex-ubisoft dev brittney soemthing said the final ps5 devkit is 14 tflops. went from 8-10-12-14.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Why is this OT filled with pigeon shit now

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

HBM is out, never was in. BGS simply means that while there have been lots of dev kits of various speeds, there will only be one “final” retail unit. So while everybody else is bickering about 9tf and seriously crazy figures, the real unit will be “the one”.

I'm not too sure that has been the case? At least it doesn't seem inline with what Sony did with PS4 or what has leaked or been confirmed for PS5 so far:

PS4 dev kit roadmap VGLeaks:

1) R10 boards with special BIOS, running in generic PC’s
2) “Initial 1” — Early devkit

• model number: DVKT-KS000K
• SCE-provided PC equipped with R10XX board
• Runs Orbis OS
• Available July 2012

3) SoC Based Devkit: early version of the ORBIS hardware

• Available January 2013

For PS5 we've had:

The devkit, an early “low-speed” version, is concealed in a big silver tower per first Wired article.

The 'V' dev kit leaked about for the last year.

Rumoured new 'V' dev kit out very recently.

So both seem to have had 3 dev kit iterations/types.

I'd love to know the specs of the first 'V' kit as that would be a long time for devs to be working with a kit with far from final specs?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Putting Horizon: Zero Dawn on PC sends a very bad message. To me, I think it could easily backfire on them and "lessens" their overall sales if people get the idea that they'll eventually get them on PC. But if they migrate some from PC "or let's say along with their PC's" then it might be considered successful. The game already sold very well, not sure if they can make reasonable money out of PC. If I'm the decision maker, I won't put it or any exclusive on PC. I might buy the switch only to play Zelda, games sell consoles.

To an extent, I agree. It would at least make more sense if Sony had their own PC launcher and Storefront. Just putting their first party games on Steam barely benefits them at all. You're not drawing more users into the ecosystem. You're just sending a message to consumers (including your existing hardware platform owners) that owning PS hardware is becoming less important.... which seems antithetical to a hardware business.

(And make no mistake, no matter what koolaid narrative others try to push, it's fundamentally still a hardware business)

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I won't say it it took 2 gens.
Yes they had some DD games in the PS3\360 gen but not day and date and not even some AAA games.
This gen is where everything was in place for DD and we near 50% and it will grow with next gen .
Streaming will take a while of course but gen are now 7 years and market share will grow a big amount in that time.

Well, it took two gens since it was introduced, getting titles on the store is part of the process, same for streaming.
It will grow for sure, as you noted yourself it is at least one gen that streaming is around and yet here we are. It will take another gen only to be revelant, but to take over? Meh.

 

[Aceofspades]

Lot of DKs. But only one retail.

Now it has come to mind when Sony announced that PS4 would use 8GB of GDDR5.

That possibility seemed unthinkable. Until...

Spoiler

PAM! In the face!

Be careful with Sony my crofriend.

I will be absent a few weeks. Be good.

Thanks for your input man. Much appreciated

 

[IkarugaDE]

Damn, I think I have a chance in this game now.

If you are from north korea then you win!

Spoiler

Cause you was able to connect to the Internet.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I’m not under NDA. The thing I’m under is my wife. BOOM.

But in all seriousness, 13 etc is actually a bigger gulf than will happen, and as it stands, right now (and for the foreseeable future) SX have the TF crown, from what I’ve seen. And that’s The latest DK. However, there are many crowns, and both sides have several each.

If the latest DK you are aware off has only about 512GB/s of BW, then it's most likely not the final devkit.

 

[01011001]

hes saying they will have a mic drop moment like they did with 8GB GDDR5 last gen.

and yes its either 14 tflops or hbm.

the ex-ubisoft dev brittney soemthing said the final ps5 devkit is 14 tflops. went from 8-10-12-14.

here is the thing about TFLOPs, if AMD is using part of the CUs of the GPU as dedicated RT cores instead of having additional hardware specifically used for that, will MS and Sony add these CUs to calculate the total FLOP number they will use in their PR stuff?
what dies 12TF mean in that context? is it 12TF of traditional hardware performance, or is it 12TF minus the part of the GPU only used for raytracing...

without knowing the exact makeup of these AMD gpus it is really murky at the moment when it comes to these metrics

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Can we PLEASE stop this utterly stupid narrative that has no basis on reality? Please?! This is borderline 9tf bullshit!

Why?

DF themselves have reported on comments from multiple developers that have chaffed at the idea of a 4TF Lockhart. Just because you claim it won't hold your dev studio back, doesn't mean that's true for other devs. You realise you can't speak for all developers?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I know you guys are under NDA, but I assume after all the pigeons talk, the console is more likely gonna be 11.6 TF, maybe all the way to 13 TFs like Osiris said.

13TF, because:

Feet of the devil that's being welcomed by Mark Cerny in his natural form as confirmed by BGs

They will rule the world.

 

[LED Guy?]

Lot of DKs. But only one retail.

Now it has come to mind when Sony announced that PS4 would use 8GB of GDDR5.

That possibility seemed unthinkable. Until...

Spoiler

PAM! In the face!

Be careful with Sony my crofriend.

I will be absent a few weeks. Be good.

Hmm.....Sony having an "8GB GDDR5 moment" for the PS5?

I heard someone mentioning it before, it was Tommy Fisher who said it before....

 

[SportsFan581]

hes saying they will have a mic drop moment like they did with 8GB GDDR5 last gen.

and yes its either 14 tflops or hbm.

the ex-ubisoft dev brittney soemthing said the final ps5 devkit is 14 tflops. went from 8-10-12-14.

They'd probably need a lot more than 14TF to have a mic drop moment, with the 13/14 rumors swirling for more than a year, the wind doesn't seem strong in those sails. (in way of shock value)

 

[FranXico]

Something something concern trolling

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Just FYI, the Ps5 dev timeline is hazy, and we will never really know the full ins and outs (at least not for a good while), but the PS5 that will release this year is NOT the first PS5. That was scrapped a while back, and that itself went through several revisions. The new units have had several different stages of development, you never go from 0-60 in one go.

There is no 14tf. This is loony bin talk and will only get you more upset in the long run. Think about that figure logically for a second. Whoever at Ubi said that? Well, that’s nuts.

Memory isn’t something you just slap into a build like a pc, it takes time to balance the system out. HBM only serves to exacerbate that process.

The memory at the speed it’s at (from a first party source, I may add, in a final kit) is more than enough for the other improvements that COME with it based on the system build as a whole. You’re thinking of shit in a custom PC build. This is not a PC.

I’m not going into lockhart discussion again, that’s been talked about. You either believe the BS that’s been said (and some of you don’t even know what you’re posting when quoting other sources) or you understand it’s not an issue. Do not confuse the worry between first party Xbox games having to work on Xbox one. Also, I’m not speaking of my studio. The actual knowledge I have is a Combination of third party, first party and common sense with a lot of experience. Also I would like to add Jason said devs think it’s the same level as a PS4 pro. That’s enough to instantly tell me something is fishy with that. The theoretical specs revealed for lockhart are nowhere near a PS4 pro level, and it would wipe the floor with pro performance. And the pro has to run at fake 4k, the lockhart doesn’t. Think about that.

And Aceofspades is pissed at me because he got slapped down earlier and is in a grump.

Edit: I’m not here to make anybody believe anything, you’re free to make your own minds up. The hard details from the horses mouth will be here soon enough. But man, some of you people want the impossible, things not even feasible, without a bit of common sense. It’s nuts. I’m here to post what I know AND what I think, to share my experience with you all and chat. But you make people not want to even bother. The really strange thing is, it’s always this time of the day it happens as well... that’s very weird.

 

[ethomaz]

Why?

DF themselves have reported on comments from multiple developers that have chaffed at the idea of a 4TF Lockhart. Just because you claim it won't hold your dev studio back, doesn't mean that's true for other devs. You realise you can't speak for all developers?

I believe more in Jason and he said the devs are really worried with the issues coming with a Lockhart version more than one time.

 

[SportsFan581]

If you are from north korea then you win!

Spoiler

Cause you was able to connect to the Internet.

Nah, just from Trump country.

 

[ethomaz]

They'd probably need a lot more than 14TF to have a mic drop moment, with the 13/14 rumors swirling for more than a year, the wind doesn't seem strong in those sails. (in way of shock value)

Mic drop moment was when they announced price and disc sharing policies.

8GB GDDR5 moment was more like meltdown moment and happened 4 months before the mic drop moment.

 

[Hatsuma]

I’m not under NDA. The thing I’m under is my wife. BOOM.

But in all seriousness, 13 etc is actually a bigger gulf than will happen, and as it stands, right now (and for the foreseeable future) SX have the TF crown, from what I’ve seen. And that’s The latest DK. However, there are many crowns, and both sides have several each.

The idea of them being so close and so strong is awesome and reasonable. Give the artists sizable canvases and let them paint! God I'm so excited about next gen. I may buy an Xbox down the line.

Thank you for your insight and humor

 

[Gamernyc78]

To an extent, I agree. It would at least make more sense if Sony had their own PC launcher and Storefront. Just putting their first party games on Steam barely benefits them at all. You're not drawing more users into the ecosystem. You're just sending a message to consumers (including your existing hardware platform owners) that owning PS hardware is becoming less important.... which seems antithetical to a hardware business.

(And make no mistake, no matter what koolaid narrative others try to push, it's fundamentally still a hardware business)

Putting their games on pc towards the back end of a consoles life or two or more years after release of said game doesn't affect them negatively in anyway imo. If tlou 2 drops on their console first, hardly anyone is going to say "oh it'll be on PC in two to three years ima wait" shit ppl barely wait for a game thy know will drop half in price in a few months. If thy keep this strategy its just a win win for them. It's a way to get more sales out of games already stagnant on their console because it's already sold in the millions. It's the same approach as Psnow and putting first parties on it late in the games sales life.

 

[SlimySnake]

To an extent, I agree. It would at least make more sense if Sony had their own PC launcher and Storefront. Just putting their first party games on Steam barely benefits them at all. You're not drawing more users into the ecosystem. You're just sending a message to consumers (including your existing hardware platform owners) that owning PS hardware is becoming less important.... which seems antithetical to a hardware business.

(And make no mistake, no matter what koolaid narrative others try to push, it's fundamentally still a hardware business)

yep. its the kind of shit i would expect from an exec who has no clue how the hardware business works.

but then again, they allowed crossplay which literally shits on their entire business model of getting users to buy their console, getting royalties for that game, getting money from their PS+ subs and DLCs so maybe they have no idea what they are doing. Now consumers who want to game with friends on PS+ have zero reason to buy a ps console while MS profits from having access to a substantially larger (2.5x) population.

 

[SportsFan581]

Mic drop moment was when they announced price and disc sharing policies.

Truth.

 

[Aceofspades]

And Aceofspades is pissed at me because he got slapped down earlier and is in a grump.

Why, I said nothing. All I did is asked a question and was answered by multiple people including you. Or you feel jealous because I thanked BGs ?

Ok...I get it, "Thanks for your input too Gavin Stevens

Feeling better now?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Just FYI, the Ps5 dev timeline is hazy, and we will never really know the full ins and outs (at least not for a good while), but the PS5 that will release this year is NOT the first PS5. That was scrapped a while back, and that itself went through several revisions. The new units have had several different stages of development, you never go from 0-60 in one go.

There is no 14tf. This is loony bin talk and will only get you more upset in the long run. Think about that figure logically for a second. Whoever at Ubi said that? Well, that’s nuts.

Memory isn’t something you just slap into a build like a pc, it takes time to balance the system out. HBM only serves to exacerbate that process.

The memory at the speed it’s at (from a first party source, I may add, in a final kit) is more than enough for the other improvements that COME with it based on the system build as a whole. You’re thinking of shit in a custom PC build. This is not a PC.

I’m not going into lockhart discussion again, that’s been talked about. You either believe the BS that’s been said (and some of you don’t even know what you’re posting when quoting other sources) or you understand it’s not an issue. Do not confuse the worry between first party Xbox games having to work on Xbox one. Also, I’m not speaking of my studio. The actual knowledge I have is a Combination of third party, first party and common sense with a lot of experience.

And Aceofspades is pissed at me because he got slapped down earlier and is in a grump.

Don't want to seem rude but are you sure it's the final DK.
I remember last gen that even some first party devs did not know about 8GB of ram .
GG did not know and they were making a launch game lol and final kits went out to both first and 3rd party later .

 

[Gamernyc78]

I believe more in Jason and he said the devs are really worried with the issues coming with a Lockhart version more than one time.

Lets go full circle, you don't have to be a dev or DF to know the implications. Ppl on GAF since the days of parity didn't like the lower denominator holding games back and mentioned it must not be a great situation for devs. It's reason why some games weren't even made for switch bcus some devs didn't feel it was even worth it trying.

 

[Xenon]

Dude you sound pathetic. GAF is the place that worshipped DF the most until PS lost the power crown. Embarrassing post

This can't be stated enough. Its one thing for it to be a staple in every multiplatform thread, but the concerned trolling even in Xbox exclusive threads was relentless. Every thread relating to xbox was stunk up with this shit.

Sorry to see you leave Dark10x but I get it. Unless you're singing their tune some fans can be pathetic bitches but most aren't so I hope you come back after a break.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Why, I said nothing. All I did is asked a question and was answered by multiple people including you. Or you feel jealous because I thanked BGs ?

Ok...I get it, "Thanks for your input too Gavin Stevens

Feeling better now?

Was it not you in here saying why am I posting stuff like an insider? Or am I thinking of somebody else...? Edit: yes, it was you. And then when told, you disappeared.

Don't want to seem rude but are you sure it's the final DK.
I remember last gen that even some first party devs did not know about 8GB of ram .
GG did not know and they were making a launch game lol and final kits went out to both first and 3rd party later .

That’s true, absolutely, and I can’t deny that fact. That is indeed possible. But while some things ARE possible, like a different memory amount, some other things are totally not.

 

[Aceofspades]

Dude you sound pathetic. GAF is the place that worshipped DF the most until PS lost the power crown. Embarrassing post

When did PS lose the power crown? Did DF exist in 2001?

 

[Deeper Underground]

yep. its the kind of shit i would expect from an exec who has no clue how the hardware business works.

but then again, they allowed crossplay which literally shits on their entire business model of getting users to buy their console, getting royalties for that game, getting money from their PS+ subs and DLCs so maybe they have no idea what they are doing. Now consumers who want to game with friends on PS+ have zero reason to buy a ps console while MS profits from having access to a substantially larger (2.5x) population.

What? This is not how it works at all. Yes, it opens the pool to more players, but by offering things exclusive and inherent to Playstation only, you still will get customers who will buy a PS to play it. That’s why all of you kids in here freaking out about HZD on PC make me laugh. One game (and possibly more) doesn’t automatically invalidate an entire system. Look at Steam’s list of average PC specs for their users. Not even 50% of Steam users have up to date specs to take advantage of these games, so why should people be worried? I’m just hoping the PS5 comes within spitting distance of XSX so we don’t have to hear fanboys from each side screeching at each other.

 

[Gamernyc78]

The sympathy card worked foh

Anyway any new leaks? This thread seems to actually be turning into the "Sony games on PC thread"

 

[Apollo Helios]

The really strange thing is, it’s always this time of the day it happens as well... that’s very weird.

What timezone do you live at? Seems like a hint is buried there but need to know your UTC as in universal time... pls

 

[Gavin Stevens]

What timezone do you live at? Seems like a hint is buried there but need to know your UTC as in universal time... pls

UK. It’s 8pm right now. Seems the thread turns into a different beast about 7-8pm

 

[Hostile_18]

Gavin Stevens if I was a gambling man would PS1/2/3 BC be something I'd want to bet alot of money on? How much would you recommend?

Also I've got a lot of old PS2/PS3 discs should I sell them to put towards the bet or would it be something I may live to regret?

 

[xacto]

This guy needs to get over it, and by it, mainly himself.

Just report what you hear and stop crying like a petulant child with a big boi ego.

Well, I was expecting a more elegant attitude from him, but at the end of the day, everyone is themselves, nothing more.

I couldn't care less if HZD came to PC at the same time with the PS4 version, as long as I could play that game on my platform of choice.

 

[Kobi]

I'm a little confused at all these people being negative about HZD coming to pc. Hasn't it always been the case that game sales > console sales? Has that changed?

You don't understand that PS makes most of its money out of 3rd party games, right? 1st party games are only a fraction of their total money gains. So if you get consumers out of your ecosystem then you're losing A LOT, especially PS Plus revenue.

If someone doesn't buy a ps5 because the exclusives are on pc, then they probably never played 3rd party games on that platform anyway. My ps4 pro is a first party exclusive machine and collects dust 90% of the year. If i can play all the exclusives a year to 3 years after release on pc, then i'll definitely not buy a ps5 and put that extra money into a new gpu. Sony will still get my money and if they really are taking a loss on each console sale with the ps5, they will be saving money. I have no reason to buy PS Plus too.

It's also a bit ridiculous that people are saying they will release HZD on pc, then make HZD 2 a console exclusive - to pull pc players over to console. Pc players play on pc, because they prefer the pc platform, they prefer KB/M. They have probably spent 2-3+ times the price of a ps5 on their pc and want to make the most of their hardware. Sony would literally be shooting themselves in the foot if they done that.

 

[LED Guy?]

The sympathy card worked foh

Anyway any new leaks? This thread seems to actually be turning into the "Sony games on PC thread"

Nothing new, more 9s and more 14s.

 

[Aceofspades]

Was it not you in here saying why am I posting stuff like an insider? Or am I thinking of somebody else...? Edit: yes, it was you. And then when told, you disappeared.

Ok, I was wrong...you seem like you know some insiders, and you worked in the industry for 20+ years.

Is that enough for you or should I worship the church of Digital Foundry or Colbert charts for you to leave me alone?

 

[DeepEnigma]

UK. It’s 8pm right now. Seems the thread turns into a different beast about 7-8pm

Just don't feed it after midnight.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Gavin Stevens if I was a gambling man would PS1/2/3 BC be something I'd want to bet alot of money on? How much would you recommend?

Also I've got a lot of old PS2/PS3 discs should I sell them to put towards the bet or would it be something I may live to regret?

Not. A. Clue. That’s one thing I haven’t, and won’t, hear about, sadly.

If it was me, I would bet bit on it being possible. 4 is a guaranteed 100%, and while 1&2 are more than possible, I wouldn’t expect them with enhancements. PS3 is the kicker... That’s not so simple.

Ok, I was wrong...you seem like you know some insiders, and you worked in the industry for 20+ years.

Is that enough for you or should I worship the church of Digital Foundry or Colbert charts for you to leave me alone?

You seem awfully upset for some reason and I can’t think why...? Serious question, what’s the issue? You just seem angry? You’ve just slagged off both Colbert (I assume this twitter guy I’ve never looked up and not the presenter) and Digital Foundry... ans I’m here posting legit sources of PS5 being a tiny, teeny bit lower in flops than SX... I’m doing the math here, and I think I can see why your anger is going towards me. You’re clearly on a heavy flow, so please take these, I hope it can help in calming you down anger wise, so that we can all chat like normal people.

 

[Apollo Helios]

UK. It’s 8pm right now. Seems the thread turns into a different beast about 7-8pm

So all the crazies getting in on the thread lives around Europe hahahah

Also did you have a hint about reveal date in your posts, like a few minutes before 3.15 might be March 15th and thereabouts?

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Ok, I was wrong...you seem like you know some insiders, and you worked in the industry for 20+ years.

Is that enough for you or should I worship the church of Digital Foundry or Colbert charts for you to leave me alone?

 

[Hostile_18]

Not. A. Clue. That’s one thing I haven’t, and won’t, hear about, sadly.

If it was me, I would bet bit on it being possible. 4 is a guaranteed 100%, and while 1&2 are more than possible, I wouldn’t expect them with enhancements. PS3 is the kicker... That’s not so simple.

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to keep the dream alive for now.

I'd hope the games would simply run at a higher resolution. That would be upgrade enough for me.

 

[Agnostic2020]

hes saying they will have a mic drop moment like they did with 8GB GDDR5 last gen.

and yes its either 14 tflops or hbm.

the ex-ubisoft dev brittney soemthing said the final ps5 devkit is 14 tflops. went from 8-10-12-14.

Lol I see you haven't given up 14 tf hope . I feel 13 tf is absolute max and that's not happening imo. 12.4 is my bet

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to keep the dream alive for now.

I'd hope the games would simply run at a higher resolution. That would be upgrade enough for me.

Even though Sony were plonkers and said BC isn't needed ages ago, they have changed their tune in recent times. It’s absolutely a possibility they would work on this for all of the consoles.

But with enhancements too? I doubt it very much. That’s a LOT of work to make sure some games work *at all*. You may be able to do that on pc, but that’s never a 100% compatible fault free experience.

I would really, really love to see them make all the consoles a possibility, and if they did, thag would be a mic drop moment. But only expect enhancements for PS4 games, imo. And dont expect games already on the store to be available, otherwise games will slowly trickle in.

IMO.

 

[geordiemp]

If the latest DK you are aware off has only about 512GB/s of BW, then it's most likely not the final devkit.

A new player appears....how high are sony goingin BW do you know or think ?

 

[SlimySnake]

What? This is not how it works at all. Yes, it opens the pool to more players, but by offering things exclusive and inherent to Playstation only, you still will get customers who will buy a PS to play it. That’s why all of you kids in here freaking out about HZD on PC make me laugh. One game (and possibly more) doesn’t automatically invalidate an entire system. Look at Steam’s list of average PC specs for their users. Not even 50% of Steam users have up to date specs to take advantage of these games, so why should people be worried? I’m just hoping the PS5 comes within spitting distance of XSX so we don’t have to hear fanboys from each side screeching at each other.

I am not freaking out about HZD being on PC. i just think its a clueless business decision for a console maker.

if anything getting PS5 exclusives is great for me because then i no longer have to pay sony $60 to play online games, and $400-500 mid gen to upgrade and still play games at 30 fps. i will probably just buy a PC on day 1 with a 25 tflops nvidia gpu and a 16 core 32 thread AMD GPU that will run everything on the PS5 with ease at 60 fps from day one.

the only problem with that is that sony lost my money from PS+ subs, royalties from every third party game i wouldve bought, $500 from the midgen upgrade i wouldnt buy and 30% of sales from any digital purchase on PSN. if i was a sony stockholder, i would question if all of that lost revenue is worth it for a couple of million sales on PC at $5 a pop which is the price PC gamers usually buy games for.

i personally couldnt care less. i just think its a boneheaded decision for a console manufacturer company.