Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
If thats the specs be prepared to pay at least $599
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If thats the specs be prepared to pay at least $599
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Why even bother holding onto realistic expectations in the PS5 Delusional Fantasy Spec Land theme park?
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Disco_
Member
PS5 having a 256bit bus and a 448gb/s bandwidth vs xsx having 320bit bus and ~560gb/s bandwidth isn't exactly news. The 2019 e3 render showed us 10 chips and if they're low binned parts, there's 560gb/s. It can easily go higher. While Gonzalo/flute tests showed 448gb/s on a 256bit bus. What the unmentionable leak shows is that Sony might be going with higher speed mem chips taking it to ~530gb/s.
HawarMiran
Banned
those glorious tits don't fix her face.What she lacks in back she makes up for just like the SSD will make up for TF
Disco_
Member
I know you're probably joking but people think this can be the case. It's hilarious.
Moridianae
Member
With efficiency gains, I've long said 13TF could be theoretically plausible, but fairly unlikely.
Be more in line for them to go 12.4-12.6 and round up.
That being said, nice to see some corroborative information to continue to put GitHub back in the bag(if it is verified by Mod of War, of course).
Looking at the world situation, the likelihood of Sony speaking *ANYTIME* this month is next to nil. We MIGHT get an article if we're lucky, but I'm banking on April or even May depending on how this event transpires.
Be more in line for them to go 12.4-12.6 and round up.
That being said, nice to see some corroborative information to continue to put GitHub back in the bag(if it is verified by Mod of War, of course).
Looking at the world situation, the likelihood of Sony speaking *ANYTIME* this month is next to nil. We MIGHT get an article if we're lucky, but I'm banking on April or even May depending on how this event transpires.
icerock
Member
Github is and was never a problem, the information contained within it was 100% legitimate. The problem has always been, certain idiots with an agenda, using that information, mixing with their own BS and passing them as facts.
To this day, not one of them can answer about the actual CU count on Oberon. Not one, why? Because data is completely silent on shaders count. Meanwhile it provided shaders count for Arden at 3584, which meant 56CUs. All, you have is native 18WGP count for a BC compatibility/regression test. We have few, who on this very site argued it to be from Ariel iGPU profile for Oberon to be RDNA2. So which one is it? Either you cede Oberon to be RDNA1, meaning Github data can be thrown away. Or you can argue that Oberon is RDNA2, and all the testing is of RDNA1 iGPU i.e. Ariel, but then your interpretation of what is actually on Oberon made up completely from your backside and not on the basis of Github.
I've argued this for a very long time, when everyone was convinced Oberon is RDNA1. How can you be so sure about total CU count on Oberon when all you have is a regression test? How can you be so certain and box yourself with maximum limit of 36 or 40CUs, when a bigger NAVI was in existence in form of Arden in that very data itself? (We didn't know it was RDNA2 either) What exactly was stopping Sony from stepping beyond that mark?
Oh, I know, it was because PS5 iGPU was based on RDNA1. And given how power hungry they were and AMD highest performing NAVI discreet GPU tapping out at 9.7TF with 40CUs. Sony were always going to be limited by what they could design, as it would form part of the APU. (But not MS with Arden, because.... just reasons) If only I could be arsed to quote, pages and pages of this non-sense, which I had to sift through on a daily basis on these kind of threads on various places for months and months. All I had thrown in my face were Github data, and ro_game tweets.
But, now when AMD went out of their way to confirm PS5 is RDNA2, then Oberon was suddenly RDNA2 all along and their interpretation of Github data along with ro_game was wrong. I mean, you couldn't make this shit up! Anyways, if the Oberon was RDNA2 all along, it actually strengthens the argument of CU count even more. Want to one of the features of RDNA2? It is extremely power efficient, meaning it would allow AMD to put more CUs and build a bigger GPU. So, take this, we have Gonzalo an APU, housing an iGPU in form of Ariel which is based on RDNA1. So Sony, did spent $$$ to manufacture an APU on a tech/architecture which was never going into final PS5 (Killing the argument of Sony 'wasting money' on an APU they were not going to use). Hence, whenever the decision was taken of a redesign i.e. to switch from RDNA1 to RDNA2 (Ariel to Oberon, in this instance). What advantages did they take of this new RDNA2 architecture? We know they are tapping into VRS and RT, but did they also take advantage of efficiency gains to add CUs on the iGPU, or the decision was to simply clock it higher?
We DON'T know answer to any of this, Github data provides fuckall insight to this question which is what I've been preaching all along. We don't know the full makeup of Oberon, so stop boxing yourself within the confines of 36/40CUs. That restriction made sense if PS5 was using a power hungry RDNA1 architecture, but we know it doesn't. They could've clocked the GPU higher, or added more CUs and gone little wide and slower. We just don't know, anybody who is acting like they do on basis of Github data, are just chatting shit. /endrant
To this day, not one of them can answer about the actual CU count on Oberon. Not one, why? Because data is completely silent on shaders count. Meanwhile it provided shaders count for Arden at 3584, which meant 56CUs. All, you have is native 18WGP count for a BC compatibility/regression test. We have few, who on this very site argued it to be from Ariel iGPU profile for Oberon to be RDNA2. So which one is it? Either you cede Oberon to be RDNA1, meaning Github data can be thrown away. Or you can argue that Oberon is RDNA2, and all the testing is of RDNA1 iGPU i.e. Ariel, but then your interpretation of what is actually on Oberon made up completely from your backside and not on the basis of Github.
I've argued this for a very long time, when everyone was convinced Oberon is RDNA1. How can you be so sure about total CU count on Oberon when all you have is a regression test? How can you be so certain and box yourself with maximum limit of 36 or 40CUs, when a bigger NAVI was in existence in form of Arden in that very data itself? (We didn't know it was RDNA2 either) What exactly was stopping Sony from stepping beyond that mark?
Oh, I know, it was because PS5 iGPU was based on RDNA1. And given how power hungry they were and AMD highest performing NAVI discreet GPU tapping out at 9.7TF with 40CUs. Sony were always going to be limited by what they could design, as it would form part of the APU. (But not MS with Arden, because.... just reasons) If only I could be arsed to quote, pages and pages of this non-sense, which I had to sift through on a daily basis on these kind of threads on various places for months and months. All I had thrown in my face were Github data, and ro_game tweets.
But, now when AMD went out of their way to confirm PS5 is RDNA2, then Oberon was suddenly RDNA2 all along and their interpretation of Github data along with ro_game was wrong. I mean, you couldn't make this shit up! Anyways, if the Oberon was RDNA2 all along, it actually strengthens the argument of CU count even more. Want to one of the features of RDNA2? It is extremely power efficient, meaning it would allow AMD to put more CUs and build a bigger GPU. So, take this, we have Gonzalo an APU, housing an iGPU in form of Ariel which is based on RDNA1. So Sony, did spent $$$ to manufacture an APU on a tech/architecture which was never going into final PS5 (Killing the argument of Sony 'wasting money' on an APU they were not going to use). Hence, whenever the decision was taken of a redesign i.e. to switch from RDNA1 to RDNA2 (Ariel to Oberon, in this instance). What advantages did they take of this new RDNA2 architecture? We know they are tapping into VRS and RT, but did they also take advantage of efficiency gains to add CUs on the iGPU, or the decision was to simply clock it higher?
We DON'T know answer to any of this, Github data provides fuckall insight to this question which is what I've been preaching all along. We don't know the full makeup of Oberon, so stop boxing yourself within the confines of 36/40CUs. That restriction made sense if PS5 was using a power hungry RDNA1 architecture, but we know it doesn't. They could've clocked the GPU higher, or added more CUs and gone little wide and slower. We just don't know, anybody who is acting like they do on basis of Github data, are just chatting shit. /endrant
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Why even bother holding onto realistic expectations in the PS5 Delusional Fantasy Spec Land theme park?
Those expectations are definitely delusional fantasy park land.
It makes no business sense for sony to go ultra high end or even xsx level.
FeiRR
Banned
It works the same way for flatearthers: they will try to perform scientific (at least up to the limits of their tiny brains) experiments to prove something which cannot hold together if you apply any laws of physics. When those experiments fail (my favourite was one idiot killing himself in a rocket, godspeed to you, Darwin award nominee), they switch to "it's a conspiracy". The same mechanism can be observed with Githubbers, Pastebinians and other console cultists. All because a human being is wired to belong to a group but some of us decide that the more fringe the group is, the smarter they are.
I know how to load a game on ZX Spectrum. I'm so special!
megreotsugua
Banned
More like $699. Not gonna happen.
11.6TF or even 12TF is realistic as proven by SXS. 13TF is still a possibility but a cost.
SportsFan581
Member
14 or 15TF would probably be doable, but you'd likely give up too much in other areas if you are looking to stay in that $499 price range. Anything is possible, the price is the limiting factor. Sony could choose to take a big loss, but there are limits to what is acceptable, I think they would want a positive return down the line. If they put out a real dream machine, be prepared to pay for it.
I'm probably wrong, but I just think MS & Sony will try and stick to their familiar price points.
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RaySoft
Member
I'm simply implying that MS is maybe going for a reference navi2 design, while Sony maybe doing some customization like they did for PS4 when they increased the number of ACEs (asynchronous compute). MS could ofc make some customizations of their own as well, but I think they will stay close the the original design since they seem to embrace the PC way of doing things (more fps/res/legacy support) while Sony are making a more clean break from last-gen and pushing next-gen without legacy support. Since I suspect navi2's arcitecture is designed with PC gaming in mind, Sony could cut out parts that won't benefit their system fully with i.e. increasing other parts that do.
I don't think API implementations will make that much difference since they will be highy optimized on both systems anyways.
megreotsugua
Banned
My hopes for PS5 is 11-12TF, 16GB RAM
$399 - disc less, 500GB (sold at a loss)
$499 - 1TB (break-even or very little loss)
You think this is realistic?
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I wonder what spec 3rd party games will require for next gen, the xbox one was 720/900p because devs targeted there games to run at 1080p @ max settings at about 2.5tflops.
So it really depends on what they target this gen, for all we know they could of targeted there games to be maxed out @ 4k on 12gcn TFLOPS, which is about 7 RDNA2 Tflops.
If thats the case even a 9tflop rdna2 would not see much difference visually to a 12tflop RDNA2.
So it really depends on what they target this gen, for all we know they could of targeted there games to be maxed out @ 4k on 12gcn TFLOPS, which is about 7 RDNA2 Tflops.
If thats the case even a 9tflop rdna2 would not see much difference visually to a 12tflop RDNA2.
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Neo Blaster
Member
Has
Mod of War
already confirmed
WhispersintheWind
info? Nothing personal, dude, but I'm fed up being burnt by newbies tossing info that ends up being FUD.
Mod of War
already confirmed
WhispersintheWind
info? Nothing personal, dude, but I'm fed up being burnt by newbies tossing info that ends up being FUD.
pasterpl
Member
People forget that ssd is quite pricey compared to mechanical drives, DualShock 5 with all its “bells and whistles“ will not be cheap either. this all adds up to the BOM. Built in PSVR support probably will be an extra couple £ as well. Realistically I am expecting PSV in 10-11TFlops range To be sold in range between $399 to $499 depending on XSex price.
pasterpl
Member
1 GCN TFlops = 1 RDNA2 TFlop
Lone Wolf
Member
14 or 15 TF would be north of $700. You have feed those TF with power and bandwidth and memory. It’s not happening.
SportsFan581
Member
I would think a $399 PS would maintain the disk, just for PS4 compatibility. Who knows though, if they needed to drop it they might.
When you start looking at $299 or less, I think the BR drive is a goner.
I'll probably fall out of my chair when these things hit $700+. LOL
When you start looking at $299 or less, I think the BR drive is a goner.
I'll probably fall out of my chair when these things hit $700+. LOL
Has
Another dev saying it’s not 9.2, and to throw that away, also mentioned one of the recent leaks is the range they have as well. They have yet to confirm his questions narrowing it down, but I don’t think they will. Questions were too on the nose to answer, maybe.
thelastword
Banned
I'm willing to pay as much…….I've always said that...
I can confirm that the PS5 will be 11TF - 13TF and the more important news: water is wet. Its purely speculation at this point though. My first party sources are pretty vague on the information. Waiting for confirmation form
Dial back your trolling.
Dr Strange
Member
You sure it's a dev?!
megreotsugua
Banned
I'll be too. $799 16TF 24GB PS5 pro.
Neo Blaster
Member
M.Night Shyamalan
Member
Can you confirm... he says the info is from a third party dev that has many accolades.. or is it a small time studio? He says their big enough to warrant the newest dev kits.
SportsFan581
Member
You'd probably find yourself in Atari Jaguar territory if you tried a reasonable price, balance would be lacking something terrible.
mitchman
Gold Member
That would be nice, yesThank you for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, but give us Halaand and Odegaard next
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Yep and that's the thing: some people are so obsessed (ironically) on raw power and yet they still think they can get that AND everything else for $499 (some even seem to think $399). As if these companies are going to bleed hundreds on hardware ever again; those days are dead.
Yeah you can do a 14TFF/15TF system at $499 but it might not have a (good) disc drive (or one at all), you can kiss any decent amount of storage goodbye, there'll be a big cutback on I/O features for the end-user as well. And build quality might suffer on top of that.
I mean, the XSX is very likely going to be $499 and that's already at 12 and will probably sell at a loss at that MSRP, and that's with a company roughly 20x Sony's size. People forget that one of the major reasons Sony was able to eat costs on PS1 is because they actually manufactured those components directly through their own fab lines, and engineered the chips in-house. It's actually something Kutaragi poked fun at SEGA for way back in the day (because companies like SEGA and Nintendo couldn't do what Sony was able to do). Same goes for PS2.
The reason they were mostly able to absorb the losses on PS3 was due to practically every other part of the company doing very well, enough to eat the costs. Even so, it wiped out all PS1 & PS2 profits, and arguably left Sony with a phyrric victory in terms of net profit when all was said and done. Sony's doing better these days in terms of profits but not to the level they were when PS1, PS2 or even PS3 came out.
Simply put, they are never going to (basically) price a $699 system at $399 or even $499 because there is no need to. The PS4 showed them as much, even post-PS4 Pro. Budgeting for a console includes many things beyond simply the BOM and production costs; it includes R&D dollars, distribution costs, shipping & handling costs, labor costs, marketing costs, salaries, bonuses, software R&D and development, etc.
All of that combined easily adds up to at least $7 billion dollars (assuming a $450 BOM, 10 million unit orders for first fiscal quarter, R&D costs, production, distribution, marketing, labor, salaries, 1st party software development, OS development, bug-testing and fixes to hardware and software, etc), but it will likely be more (it will certainly be more than that for Microsoft). And that is with the assumption of a relatively well-balanced PS5 that has a respectable graphical performance (between 9-11TF), really good SSD, good memory bandwidth, robust OS and solid Year 1 1st-party games etc.
That's why I doubt there is a dual base/Pro strategy Sony is trying right out of the gate: how do they gauge the split between base and Pro? What if they over-manufacture on one and under-manufacture on the other? Wouldn't a hypothetical Pro model add on to of that $7 billion?
We gotta think about the real-world costs of this stuff because that matters to Sony and MS a lot more than a pissing contest to have the "most powerful console".
They could both be going for customization; people forget that the only reason XBO turned out the way it did was because Microsoft didn't even design the thing with gaming as the primary focus. And that showed in the ambition and the end product. It's why they pushed Kinect. It's why they pushed for 8GB DDR3 very, very early. It's why they had HDMI-In and talked about Halo TV series (which btw is still in limbo xD), TV TV TV etc.
But that is not the same Xbox division this time around. It should be pretty evident they are designing a gaming-first system in XSX and the fact they are already working very closely with AMD on things like ray-tracing is strong proof of such. It's not like going for gaming-specific customization is a Sony-exclusive thing; other companies past and present such as Nintendo, SEGA, SNK, NEC etc. have done this, as has Microsoft. I mean the 360 wasn't terribly long ago in terms of console gaming as a whole.
Navi2x is designed for a suite of products, from PCs to game consoles etc. The fact Sony is essentially using AMD architecture and AMD's chief focus on that architecture is not primarily with "just" console gaming, means there's a definite limit to the amount of divergence they can have. What we'll see in PS5 and XSX is the vast majority of similar feature sets, with somewhat different means (via proprietary APIs, low-level utilities etc) to utilize them, since MS holds patents on some implementations and Sony will hold patents on others.
That also means there's nothing stopping Microsoft from cutting out unnecessary features that won't fit into XSX design philosophy, same way Sony can do it for PS5. It's not like the XSX is running Windows 10, anyway; they already have Xbox OS and I'd assume they are further streamlining and optimizing it same as Sony is doing for PS5's OS, API suite etc.
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Neofire
Member
I wouldn't use the word glorious and this woman in any sentence. They look average and her *back" is the standard white girl feature from my experience lol so I don't see what's all the shock and disbelief about.
Anyway let me get back on topic before I get into trouble lol.
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Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Are her knees too sharp as well?
Geddafookouuutaaherreee!
Geddafookouuutaaherreee!
HawarMiran
Banned
her pronounced jawline tells me:" Look for the adam's apple."
Physiognomonics
Member
Is it this one ? Seems believable except for the 18GB of GDDR6 which I found odd.Except that’s not what devs are telling me. The system is not 9.2TF. I would say it’s between 11.5-13TF...
In Fact had a Dev tell me in a message off site that a recent leak was 100% right with PS5. Just waiting on him to tell me which one.
For the record I can back what I’m saying up if
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
ANIMAL1975
Member
He was still waiting on the dev response. Soon!Is it this one ? Seems believable except for the 18GB of GDDR6 which I found odd.
Stop digging. No they’re not small, big and well known.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I'm sure there are people like yourself willing to spend more to get better specs, but overall sales would be far lower if the PS5 was $599, especially if you could games on a $299 Lockhart which look identical but are 1080p.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
LocalRay Interview - 'We've Partnered with One of the Leading Console Manufacturers on Raytracing'
We have had a long and interesting chat with Adshir CEO and Founder, Dr. Reuven Bakalash, on his LocalRay cross-platform raytracing software.wccftech.com
And as you've said, it can also run on consoles, right?
I wouldn't say that it runs just yet, but we are working on it and it will run.
I understand that you cannot go into details for these deals. But is the deal with a new console manufacturer or a manufacturer that's already well established in the console market?
Of course, yeah. One of the leading.
Already posted?
For me Is a great method to make an Hybrid raytracing to not explode a console
Seems like software ray tracing for BC, would be amazing if so.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Nothing.
Zero707
If I carry on trolling, report me.
Neofire
Member
3 cured? Tell the hospital there to send me some of that cure lol.Oman has closed all schools including students, teachers, admins.
EDIT: Around 18-20 got it in Oman, 3 cured so far, 1 in ER but said to be getting better. Sun is heating up so it should help.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
More like "self-cured", not a real medicine. Most people will eventually fight it back and be cured.
LED Guy?
Banned
Oh I just saw it, an insider who's getting vetted by Mod of War telling him that PS5 is 11.5 TF to 13 TF, WOW!! Told you guys, GitHub isn't the full context.
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ethomaz
Banned
At this point is already clear it is not “GitHub” level of TFs.
People still putting hopes in “GitHub” are setting themselves to disappointment or maybe big exciting surprises.
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