kyliethicc
Member
Yup 512 GB/s would’ve been the better choice.This is one criticism I agree with, I think Sony needs to pony up for some 16Gbps chips.
Yup 512 GB/s would’ve been the better choice.This is one criticism I agree with, I think Sony needs to pony up for some 16Gbps chips.
There is no reason to believe that given the existing approach to development, that the XSX will not be the best place for multiplatform games. The question at this stage is by how much?
But none of that is going to help when the major 3rd party studios design a game on PC and then port to XSX and PS5. One console is more powerful 'PC like' in its setup, and you should expect that in the final result.
Well, that's another part were I should hammer that SSD again into the argument. Cerny said that it'll pick only needed data directly from the SSD with out duplicates/replicas, saving so much time and processing and even making the games smaller in PS5 overall (making that 1TB smaller on comparison). If you don't what to get into this argument, how about skipping this and watch the GDC confress again. Developers DON'T need to work around PS5's ultra fast SSD, it has it's integrated smart AI that'll only stream what's needed directly from the SSD, saving a huge time for developers to focus more on other areas.
It's like ABS on cars and other tech, the system will do it for you.
SSD is irrelevant, MS will likely release an Arcade sku of XsX with no SSD. This is the touted Lockheart model. You’ll be able to fit one as an option by plugging it into the provided slot. That’s how much more power the 1.8TF provides, it’s a game changer, SSD is just the new power of the cloud, mark my words!!!Wow, there's a lot of people doing a lot of work to deny what's really undeniable. The Series X has a spec advantage this time around and it'll almost certainly be the best place to play third party titles.
The sudden, almost religious, fervour around SSDs is exactly the same kind of speculative claims that we saw at the start of last gen but with the roles reversed. "...but the cloud!" has become ...but the SSD!".
More power is just that and more power means better graphics and performance.
It's the gaps that matter. In all areas other than GPU the advantage for the SX is so miniscule I doubt it'll make any difference whatsoever and according to devs the higher clocks actually help minimize the GPU gap. It's certainly not looking like it'll be a noticable enough gap with third parties to get another $500+ console just for a few more pixels on the one I already have a bunch of BC games and online account with and that I know has a gazillion awesome exclusives to enjoy. If it were some huge gap like 40% GPU and way faster memory then maybe that'd be something to consider.![]()
Sorry man, for Multiplatform games, the ssd will not provide an advantage compared to Xbox series x.
The series X already has a very fast SSD, AND at the same time, has better cpu, gpu, memory and RT....
if series x would have a traditional HDD then yes, but they already have a super fast ssd... Sony’s ssd will be wasted and not really utilized by third party devs. And it’s not THAT important anyway. The SSD is SLOWER to an gddr3. Lol.
are you seriously saying that an SSD is MORE IMPORTANT to graphical fidelity, to resolution, to FPS than GPU+CPU+Memory+RT???
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Sorry man, for Multiplatform games, the ssd will not provide an advantage compared to Xbox series x.
The series X already has a very fast SSD, AND at the same time, has better cpu, gpu, memory and RT....
if series x would have a traditional HDD then yes, but they already have a super fast ssd... Sony’s ssd will be wasted and not really utilized by third party devs. And it’s not THAT important anyway. The SSD is SLOWER to an gddr3. Lol.
are you seriously saying that an SSD is MORE IMPORTANT to graphical fidelity, to resolution, to FPS than GPU+CPU+Memory+RT???
But MS already has a console with a 2tf power advantage and it's not really enough to move most off PS. and with larger numbers overall making it less of a percentage difference why would it have a big noticable leap in graphics this time?SSD is irrelevant, MS will likely release an Arcade sku of XsX with no SSD. This is the touted Lockheart model. You’ll be able to fit one as an option by plugging it into the provided slot. That’s how much more power the 1.8TF provides, it’s a game changer, SSD is just the new power of the cloud, mark my words!!!
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Yeah this is the funny thing about the Series X... By 2021 or 2022, there will be way better PC rigs using the same PCIe 4.0 SSDs and whatever new Nvidia or AMD cards. If all someone wants is the best graphics for 3rd party games wouldn’t the best route be PC?I say again.. Would that not depend on the type of game you are playing? Wouldn't a game like Elderscrolls benefit more from faster load times then it would framerates and graphics? I agree with Phil in that a console is the best way to play(some games) .. But if you use tflops as the one and only criteria determining the best experience, would it not then always simply be a PC? I argue the PC with all the tflops in the world is no longer the best way to Play a Civ game. Which my point is tf will not be the significant best experience factor in all games...
I did watch the presentation. I just think you're too optimistic about the true impact of the SSD. It will be incredible for exclusives. Your average 3rd party developer will be able to close the gap smaller than what 12>10 would normally be. But I would not expect the PS5 to be equal to or stronger for multiplats.
I did watch the presentation. I just think you're too optimistic about the true impact of the SSD. It will be incredible for exclusives. Your average 3rd party developer will be able to close the gap smaller than what 12>10 would normally be. But I would not expect the PS5 to be equal to or stronger for multiplats.
Something that concerns me is the Cerny's wording across the presentation. "Couple" is the word used when you want to describe small range like from 2 to 5, because 6 is already "half a dozen", and it's clearly not 2, at least all the time. And 5% drop from the gpu frequency making it's performance less then 10 TF. Same with the cpu. So it's either cpu is around 3,3 Ghz, or gpu performance is around 9,7 TF. Still near, but you got the point.
Another thing is that the presentation was pictured as the showcase for developers, yet there's not a single mention of VRS or similar feature. And the way Mark told about RT capabilities of the gpu.
So thing that bothering me is that Sony's gpu solution isn't fully based on rdna2 and some rumors and speculations pointing this are true. I just hope that there will be some new clarification info like with BC that will adress these not so clear points of the presentation.
Sorry, my post was so sarcastic I thought it was more obvious.But MS already has a console with a 2tf power advantage and it's not really enough to move most off PS. and with larger numbers overall making it less of a percentage difference why would it have a big noticable leap in graphics this time?
Oh I hope not. China seems to be getting somewhat stabilized though they can't be completely back until treatment advances but MS and Sony both mentioned the date pretty recently so I have to think they'll keep things on scheduleSorry, my post was so sarcastic I thought it was more obvious.
Games are a real-time process highly depended on assets to produce results. A system that can deliver assets faster, the more scope opens up for the game. The difference between PS5, XsX and traditional Hdd is significant, in that order.
A system that offers extra 1.8tf at already these high levels does not present as much game changing scope, not even in the same stratosphere.
And that’s the sum and substance off it. Things will become apparent when these thing release, which likely will be delayed into next year now so I’m looking forward to reading neogaf going in circles till then, not!
It's the gaps that matter. In all areas other than GPU the advantage for the SX is so miniscule I doubt it'll make any difference whatsoever and according to devs the higher clocks actually help minimize the GPU gap. It's certainly not looking like it'll be a noticable enough gap with third parties to get another $500+ console just for a few more pixels on the one I already have a bunch of BC games and online account with and that I know has a gazillion awesome exclusives to enjoy. If it were some huge gap like 40% GPU and way faster memory then maybe that'd be something to consider.
You may say optimistic, but many devs are sharing the same idea. Won't be one system better at all, but it'll depend on every game and its variations.
Why would I be optimistic? It's the same technique done on Horizon Zero Dawn but on steroids. And the gap between 12>10? Seems you missed it, but here:
2080 (10.1 TF) vs 2080 Super (11.9 TF) at 4K with same settings, watch the fps.
3-5fps with no optimization for locked 60fps and with the same memory, no Kraken magic, no ultra fast SSD on one side. It's not even funny to talk about it.![]()
China will be too busy scooping up the rest of the world for pennies in the dollar. Yes, China will be our global overlords. They couldn’t have planned it better, maybe they did?Oh I hope not. China seems to be getting somewhat stabilized though they can't be completely back until treatment advances but MS and Sony both mentioned the date pretty recently so I have to think they'll keep things on schedule
Also, yes, the additional SSD grunt won't bring a great deal more to multiplatform games. But why can't they innovate for the sake of their first party games? It's not like they're thin on the ground or a load of stinkers.
Wow, there's a lot of people doing a lot of work to deny what's really undeniable. The Series X has a spec advantage this time around and it'll almost certainly be the best place to play third party titles.
The sudden, almost religious, fervour around SSDs is exactly the same kind of speculative claims that we saw at the start of last gen but with the roles reversed. "...but the cloud!" has become ...but the SSD!".
More power is just that and more power means better graphics and performance.
Wow this really puts this into perspective. This difference is not NEARLY enough to not just get the third parties on the system I'm already gonna be enjoying exclusives on and for over twice as many people the system that will have a lot of games already able to play on it that they own already for PS4
On PS5's custom Geometry Engine inside its GPU, a principle software engineer had this to say:
I’m pretty sure the Geometry Engine is just the PS5 name for a standard RDNA 2 feature from AMD. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure XSX and PC will have this feature too, at least to some extent.That's another thing that I couldn't fully comprehend. Man, that boring lecture is literally Mark Cerny schooling Xbox Division. I've heard on youtube that VRS is actually taxing on CPU and GPU.
Wow, the big dam is only leaking at this point, what would happen when it opens its gates (games). "Exciting times indeed" in a Mancunian accent.
I'm sorry, but he said "couple", not "one-two". And "couple" is a somewhat tricky word.He said mostly not more than 1-2% in worst scenario as the power target is already capped to work the same wither you're playing in summer or winter, and that 2% is enough to reduce power consumption by 10%.
About other stuff just don't over think it, many xbox shills try to plant FUD into PS fans. Wait and see what exclusive mean in 2020-2023 because during that period you'll see non from the other side as Booty explained.
I think PS1 and PS2 is likely but PS3 isnt, its just to odd to do proper BC for.
The SSD certainly will provide an advantage compared to the XSX in the areas I just mentioned - Textures, Asset Diversity, LOD, loading, etc. It's a 220% difference which is substantial. The GPU and CPU are the smallest difference that has ever existed between two consoles in the history of videogames. Let that sink in how important those difference will be.
Resolution is only one aspect that determines the quality of an image. There are a ton of different factors.
Seems like there is a misunderstanding that only 1st party will use that SSD to its potential. ALL games will benefit from it as it doesn't need to duplicate files and stream them directly to CPU/GPU/RAM while freeing them instantly from unwanted assets so you can use that freed room for more framerates/graphics. It doesn't need extra work from 3rd party developers, and that's the magic of the PS5 API+SSD.
Very intrigued on how developers will use the SSD in designing games (specifically Sony first party). However, to say a 3rd party developer doesn't need to do additional work is just wrong. If X game has said logic to duplicate data to optimize for the limited ram or slower SSD, and ports to a console with more available ram and a much faster SSD. There is going to be extra work involved.
Just wanted to mention to anyone worried about either PS5 or Xbox X, the PS4 Pro with its “just 4.2 TFLOPS” and 5.5 GB of GDDR5 @ 217 GB/s, using a shitty slow hard drive, and an old weak Jaguar CPU at only 2.1 GHz..... still manages to run the brand new DOOM Eternal at 1440p with a solid 60 FPS using a mix of PC High and Ultra settings. (According to Digital Foundry.)
And the Xbox One X, with its 1.5x more powerful 6 TF GPU, 9 GB of GDDR5 at 326 GB/s, and higher CPU clock speed.... manages to do literally the same as Pro but at 1800p (with a few more frame rate dips.)
So that’s it. More powerful console hits 1800p, the weaker one 1440p. Same game, same frame rates. Same quality and settings. The Xbox One X has 1.5x GPU TF, almost 2x RAM, 1.33x bandwidth, and a higher CPU clock. It achieved a 20% higher resolution but with a few frame rate hitches. That’s it. A difference almost no one would be able to notice with their eyes. Both systems run the game great.
So yeah... I’m not worried about next gen. Both consoles will be VERY powerful. More than enough. Everyone will have great games.
Very intrigued on how developers will use the SSD in designing games (specifically Sony first party). However, to say a 3rd party developer doesn't need to do additional work is just wrong. If X game has said logic to duplicate data to optimize for the limited ram or slower SSD, and ports to a console with more available ram and a much faster SSD. There is going to be extra work involved.
SSD also helps with input lag
no. I think it’s Safe to say that we only get PS4 BC and not even for all titles.
Is there seriously someone who believe we get PS1,PS2 AND EVEN PS3 BC? Hard to imagine.
Why wouldn’t sone say so in their GDC talk? They talked about PS4 BC. Doesn’t make any sense.
It’s pro vs X all over againJust wanted to mention to anyone worried about either PS5 or Xbox X, the PS4 Pro with its “just 4.2 TFLOPS” and 5.5 GB of GDDR5 @ 217 GB/s, using a shitty slow hard drive, and an old weak Jaguar CPU at only 2.1 GHz..... still manages to run the brand new DOOM Eternal at 1440p with a solid 60 FPS using a mix of PC High and Ultra settings. (According to Digital Foundry.)
And the Xbox One X, with its 1.5x more powerful 6 TF GPU, 9 GB of GDDR5 at 326 GB/s, and higher CPU clock speed.... manages to do literally the same as Pro but at 1800p (with a few more frame rate dips.)
So that’s it. More powerful console hits 1800p, the weaker one 1440p. Same game, same frame rates. Same quality and settings. The Xbox One X has 1.5x GPU TF, almost 2x RAM, 1.33x bandwidth, and a higher CPU clock. It achieved a 20% higher resolution but with a few frame rate hitches. That’s it. A difference almost no one would be able to notice with their eyes. Both systems run the game great.
So yeah... I’m not worried about next gen. Both consoles will be VERY powerful. More than enough. Everyone will have great games.
what? How?
based on lots of comments here I think Nvidia is in trouble as everyone should stick to their 1060 cards and just update their hdd with ssd...this is sad guys. Very sad.
what? How?
based on lots of comments here I think Nvidia is in trouble as everyone should stick to their 1060 cards and just update their hdd with ssd...this is sad guys. Very sad.
And for all that “better” there’s basically no difference for games.It’s pro vs X all over againwith Series X coming out on top. That’s fast vs wide design, it is what it is . It’s a lotus sports car philosophy vs a Bugatti Veyron ... everyone knows which one wins in pure power.
But carry on .
It’s clear to me PS5 was designed for 399 in mind with beter performance for 399 and a 2019 release date. And Cerny did a excellent job with these guides in place. To bad component pricing got in the way.
Xbox is best all around.
It’s pro vs X all over againwith Series X coming out on top. That’s fast vs wide design, it is what it is . It’s a lotus sports car philosophy vs a Bugatti Veyron ... everyone knows which one wins in pure power.
But carry on .
It’s clear to me PS5 was designed for 399 in mind with beter performance for 399 and a 2019 release date. And Cerny did a excellent job with these guides in place. To bad component pricing got in the way.
Xbox is best all around.
On PS5's custom Geometry Engine inside its GPU, a principle software engineer had this to say:
“Games tend to matter more than the hardware itself in each console generation. When people see what a Horizon sequel looks like on PS5, they won't be thinking about how the specs line up next to the Xbox Series X. They'll just be wishlisting the console to themselves.”
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PS5 vs Xbox Series X: which current-gen console should you buy?
The PS5 and Xbox Series X comparedwww.techradar.com
Sorry, my post was so sarcastic I thought it was more obvious.
Games are a real-time process highly depended on assets to produce results. A system that can deliver assets faster, the more scope opens up for the game. The difference between PS5, XsX and traditional Hdd is significant, in that order.
A system that offers extra 1.8tf at already these high levels does not present as much game changing scope, not even in the same stratosphere.
And that’s the sum and substance off it. Things will become apparent when these thing release, which likely will be delayed into next year now so I’m looking forward to reading neogaf going in circles till then, not!
More interesting posts:
This is the video meant, very detailed and simplified: