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[Audiophile]

It is still dependent of the audio equipment.
For example you will need a better headset that can output what Tempest is doing.
Of course I don’t know the requirements but I know cheaper stereo headsets and the TV speakers won’t give you the difference he is looking.

3D Audio & HRTF shouldn't require any special hardware in the listening device. For headphones and earphones, the resulting audio will just be a stereo stream, everything is baked in. That's the great thing with this sorta thing, no hardware decoders, virtualisation, special formats or multichannel virtual surround crap needed.

With HRTF being applied natively on the PS5 itself, it should just be able to output a 2.0 audio track that plays back on any headphones, headset or earphones. Fidelity/quality of the audio will of course differ as it always has from pair to pair, but the fundamental functionality in terms of 3D audio will be there with any basic pair.

In regards to speaker setups, that will of course require something a little different. What I'm hoping they do there rather than rely entirely on virtualisation is try to maintain a pure audio path and simply probe the soundscape of the game world differently (or with additional points in the case of surround setups or soundbars) and then apply a different transfer function; only relying on virtualisation if absolutely necessary to tweak it..

 

[Nivek OnlyOn]

It was a tweet from a GG dev, but I cant recall which one. It was a long while ago, shows they are working hard with the SSD and Decima.

Moores law is dead youtuber said that before UE5 demo. Weeks before in fact.
Sony has this io technology for a few years now.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Ice, snow and iceberg hmmm Until Dawn 2? Horizon: Frozen Wilds 2? God of War 2 (because of the Fimbulwinter, which is the immediate prelude to the events of Ragnarök)?

 

[FeiRR]

It's obvious to me that UE5 demo did not have "textures" at all. The traditional ones.
They stream some sort of different representation of the model, some clustered solution, maybe SDF. Where polygons, textures and all the other static geometry data is clustered into small pieces and connected into some BV hierarchy.
This way you can compress things enormously good. After all they do have original models on disk. So essentially all the 1.6bln polygons exist on disk, but not in a traditional structures, so they are much smaller in size and only small part of that is rendered (20 mln polys).

I've been waiting 10 years for the gaming industry to switch from triangles to voxels. Finally, we're getting there.

 

[kuncol02]

The sound has years without the correct care in consoles

On PC too. Something started to happen (SteamAudio) after aureal vortex patents expired.

Atomontage

Do they have any papers how that works? I don't see any paper or patent. Demos i saw looked like they deformed space before traversing data tree. That will not do for real animation.

wasn't there a horizon zero dawn rumor saying Aloy has more polygons then the entire list of characters in the first game combined? Seems believable now.

Only static mesh, no deformation. From what we know it's currently impossible on UE5. That technology can be used only for parts of environment.

 

[DrKeo]

I think I've explained it thoroughly here:

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

To think this Unreal 5 demo is only the start of next gen. Can't wait to see other engines, and games using these new techniques once they have matured a bit. Especially on the PC end- when hardware gets build around them even more. Like look at how raytracing and machine learning is...

www.neogaf.com

And for it being $5,500 USD and still not capable of providing solid performance with a true native 4K@30fps with 16:9 ratio, and stutter and frame rate drops. Let's not compare it to complete devices that would cost nearly 10x less than "a" part of a gaming set (as they advertised a game there).

It doesn't matter how much it costs, it's a professional card which only its' memory setup costs almost like the PS5. This demo is fully path traced and you are talking about refraction resolution? That's a bit detached.

It's obvious to me that UE5 demo did not have "textures" at all. The traditional ones.
They stream some sort of different representation of the model, some clustered solution, maybe SDF. Where polygons, textures and all the other static geometry data is clustered into small pieces and connected into some BV hierarchy.
This way you can compress things enormously good. After all they do have original models on disk. So essentially all the 1.6bln polygons exist on disk, but not in a traditional structures, so they are much smaller in size and only small part of that is rendered (20 mln polys).

The model probably does use SDF, that's why Nanite is so limited, but I'm not sure how they are leveraging that for the textures and normal maps.

 

[Danteyke223]

Most pointless tweet ever, either say what the game is or just don't.

 

[M-V2]

Dude that demo made them go on full damage control

 

[DrKeo]

A quick google search shows it's a fake, here is the same image in a medium article.

edit:
Oh god, stupid me, my bad.

 

[Audiophile]

Snow will be awesome next gen and imagine big ice blocks like that with dynamic GI passing through it.

 

[SgtCaffran]

What Epic is using can't use the RT hardware because they don't use rays. They are using three GI methods in Lumen and none of them use rays (actually, UE4's SSGI might but even if it does, it casts very few rays), probably because they want to be hardware-agnostic.

Actually Lumen does use raytracing. They don't trace triangles but they trace voxels, signed distance fields and screen space.

So it might even be possible to use a similar technique in Decima or other Sony engines while using hardware raytracing for better performance.

What I am really hoping is that techniques similar to Nanite will be used in Sony engines as well. That UE5 detail is serious business!

A quick google search shows it's a fake, here is the same image in a medium article.

The image is not the leak... Read it again.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Dude that demo made them go on full damage control to a degree that they don't know how to cover Xbox's a$$

If cpu and ssd/io is the biggest leap then cerny made the correct calls

Ps5 cpu 8c 16 t 3.5ghz vs xsx 8c 16 t 3.6 ghz
Ps5 ssd 8-9gb/s vs xsx 4.8 gb/s

 

[HAL-01]

Only static mesh, no deformation. From what we know it's currently impossible on UE5. That technology can be used only for parts of environment.

Sony 1st party more than likely have already incorporated similar techniques into their in house engines for a while now

 

[FeiRR]

A quick google search shows it's a fake, here is the same image in a medium article.

It's said in that tweet you're quoting.

 

[Corndog]

I'm Ok with 200-300GB games if the game is worth it! I would love a more sustainable game from Sony with an interesting world. Better be space interstellar that rivals Star Citizen (beats it easily)!

Then Sony and Microsoft better have better storage solutions if that’s the norm.

 

[SSfox]

Awkward times for Dictator and the rest of tards who have been pushing this PS5/Demo/Laptop BS

Spoiler

Facts line up, idiot?

That Dictator though, he can like MS or hate Sony it's ok for him, nobody should judge him about his own likes and tastes, but for someone who has a job like him he should (at least try) to stay focus and neutral.

I like PS more than Xbox obviously, but when i was working back then at a game store to be totally honest i've always been the most neutral possible, i actually advised many time Xbox over PS depending on what the client was looking for and what kind of games they enjoyed mostly.

That guy tho seems sick everytime he see or hear something positive about PS5, i mean damn dude it's like his own life is depending on it!! Like seriously!!

 

[Agnostic2020]

A quick google search shows it's a fake, here is the same image in a medium article.

Did u read the tweet lol

 

[HAL-01]

Dude that demo made them go on full damage control

Breaking: Devs from a slow paced game set in a static enclosed space says SSDs not important

 

[kuncol02]

Sony 1st party more than likely have already incorporated similar techniques into their in house engines for a while now

And with power of first party magically changed how data structures work? Only way to render rigid bodies animation with that kind of renderer is to render each body separately and compose pictures. 2 bodies 2 times longer render, 10 bodies 10 times longer render. It's impossible with our current knowledge and technology.
If they are able to do that, then UE5 is obsolete already.

 

[SSfox]

Breaking: Devs from a slow paced game set in a static enclosed space says SSDs not important

Windows central are those same that were saying that Sony has issues with PS5 burning and crashing due to high temperature?

 

[Corndog]

I think I've explained it thoroughly here:

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

To think this Unreal 5 demo is only the start of next gen. Can't wait to see other engines, and games using these new techniques once they have matured a bit. Especially on the PC end- when hardware gets build around them even more. Like look at how raytracing and machine learning is...

www.neogaf.com

And for it being $5,500 USD and still not capable of providing solid performance with a true native 4K@30fps with 16:9 ratio, and stutter and frame rate drops. Let's not compare it to complete devices that would cost nearly 10x less than "a" part of a gaming set (as they advertised a game there).

A quadro is not made for games. I have not checked but I assume it can do fp64 calculations at a far higher rate then pure gaming cards.

Edit: just looked and fp64 is pretty poor so I am not sure what they are doing.

 

[marvifrom]

Dude that demo made them go on full damage control

What a time to be alive

 

[FeiRR]

Then Sony and Microsoft better have better storage solutions if that’s the norm.

Don't you have Internet to redownload your games when you need them?!

Good old times, 7 years ago... War hasn't changed at all.

 

[Corndog]

Don't you have Internet to redownload your games when you need them?!

Good old times, 7 years ago...

Some people have caps.

 

[HAL-01]

And with power of first party magically changed how data structures work? Only way to render rigid bodies animation with that kind of renderer is to render each body separately and compose pictures. 2 bodies 2 times longer render, 10 bodies 10 times longer render. It's impossible with our current knowledge and technology.
If they are able to do that, then UE5 is obsolete already.

Im sorry, did we not just see a paradigm breaking demo showing tech we thought impossible, just a couple days ago?
im sure they've figured something out.
UE5 is not obsolete, just not done. They wouldn't have jumped into this tech if it had an unfixable fatal flaw.

 

[Corndog]

That Dictator though, he can like MS or hate Sony it's ok for him, nobody should judge him about his own likes and tastes, but for someone who has a job like him he should (at least try) to stay focus and neutral.

I like PS more than Xbox obviously, but when i was working back then at a game store to be totally honest i've always been the most neutral possible, i actually advised many time Xbox over PS depending on what the client was looking for and what kind of games they enjoyed mostly.

That guy tho seems sick everytime he see or hear something positive about PS5, i mean damn dude it's like his own life is depending on it!! Like seriously!!

Not sure what response of his your talking about but as I posted earlier one of the epic devs reposted his article on Twitter. He seem to think it accurate.

 

[DrKeo]

Actually Lumen does use raytracing. They don't trace triangles but they trace vozels, signed distance fields and screen space.

So it might even be possible to use a similar technique in Decima or other Sony engines while using hardware raytracing for better performance.

What I am really hoping is that techniques similar to Nanite will be used in Sony engines as well. That UE5 detail is serious business!

Lumen uses cone-tracing through voxels, cone-tracing through SDF, and screen space GI ray tracing. Except for the last one, it can't use the RT cores because it's not using rays, it's using cones.

The image is not the leak... Read it again.

It's said in that tweet you're quoting.

Did u read the tweet lol

Oh god, I didn't sleep enough last night. My bad, should have read the tweet better

 

[FranXico]

wasn't there a horizon zero dawn rumor saying Aloy has more polygons then the entire list of characters in the first game combined? Seems believable now.

It's nothing out of the ordinary. Poly counts jump by orders of magnitude every generation.

 

[psorcerer]

The model probably does use SDF, that's why Nanite is so limited, but I'm not sure how they are leveraging that for the textures and normal maps.

You don't need any normal maps, mentioned in the demo.
And textures are clustered in the same data structure.
Probably 3D (volumetric) texture anyway for all the data (mesh and maps) on GPU side.

 

[RicochetBullet]

I have seen massive loads of dumb shit during this console war, but that UE5 demo "running on a laptop" takes the cake.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Knack 3: Journey to the North Pole Babeeyyyy

Knack will become the ritual sacrifice of Sony required by Cerny himself

 

[DrKeo]

You don't need any normal maps, mentioned in the demo.
And textures are clustered in the same data structure.
Probably 3D (volumetric) texture anyway for all the data (mesh and maps) on GPU side.

They have a single normal map pass for fine detail. Regarding textures, SDF for textures is for extremely specific uses, I can't really see how it's used to store regular texture and normal map data. I only know it from unity, but at least the way unity stores it, it's useless for this purpose. I mean, SDF textures are used for simple geometric shapes, not details textures AFAIK.

 

[Radical_3d]

It's nothing out of the ordinary. Poly counts jump by orders of magnitude every generation.

I remember when they said the moustache of Snake in MGS4 has more poly count than an average enemy in MGS3.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

Do you know that a properly mixed album is tested at multiple sources, and not just whatever top of the line monitors it was mixed in? You need to balance the audio.so that it sounds good with whatever potato speaker you have, your car, your TV, your crappy or expensive earbuds, headphones, etc.

By having more sources (think 10 Vs 30, for example) and a better HRTF profile (tailored or not to you) you can perceive 3D audio with a stereo, or even mono system. This gets way more technical than I'm willing to explain, but you can read more here:

Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

TL DR: having more sources also allows you to create a better 3D picture in your non 3D audio monitor set up.

Source: I've been a musician for more than a decade and have mixed and mastered albums myself.

This post, guys. You're not gonna need the best stuff on the market for the audio on PS5 to make a difference, as he said, the mix is tested in wildly different environments, and I'm gonna go further, when mastering an album, is not only tested, but specifically mastered for different platforms, so it stands to reason that when they're mixing the sound for whatever game, they're gonna do more or less the very same thing and test the mix on different devices to make sure it sounds properly anywhere. They can't obviously make different masters, but they are definitely gonna make sure that the mix works in any given context.

 

[Radical_3d]

Meh. It’ll be the goddamned HZD2. If I were the optimistic type I’d say a Lost Horizon Remake with the RE Engine.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I would say:

85% it is Bluepoint's game.
13% it is Horizon 2
2% something else.

I would also suggest his source is pretty obvious...!

 

[BGs]

Are you trying to compare Hollywood studios with gaming PC's? BGs told us that their company has two massive PC's, one is 75TF and I think one is 45TF. How about you pay $50,000 USD or more to beat a $500 USD console? Sounds smart.

Nope

If I remember correctly I said 26tf and 48tf for our two best renderfarms.

But that is not massive. It really is a mediocrit. If you compare to the thousands of render farms that ILM uses our two renderfarms are like a tamagochi. If you want something massive check out the new Ampere and its PetaFlops. (with a cost of $ 199,000 each,).

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Do they have any papers how that works? I don't see any paper or patent. Demos i saw looked like they deformed space before traversing data tree. That will not do for real animation.

Not that I know of.

Did you watch this video? It seems to be able to convert even captured video motion into moving voxels

 

[kuncol02]

Im sorry, did we not just see a paradigm breaking demo showing tech we thought impossible, just a couple days ago?
im sure they've figured something out.
UE5 is not obsolete, just not done. They wouldn't have jumped into this tech if it had an unfixable fatal flaw.

Nanite use precalculated and sorted data on disk. That way it don't need whole mesh, but can grab only that polygons it need at specific moment. You have only two ways to add animation to that type of render. Rebuild data on disk which is practically impossible in gaming console (and would kill it faster than RROD killed first revision of X360) or by rendering every object as separate picture and composing them, but that not only would not work for characters (only rigid body animation), but also would be to slow for real time render.

 

[Metroiddarks]

On PC too. Something started to happen (SteamAudio) after aureal vortex patents expired.

Yes I know for example my Asus Strix 270e has a chip for that I am sure that is not even close to which have both consoles.

Probably the only people who can get better audio are those with discrete audio cards, probably the exists much more people
with the current high end GPU than those with a that kind of audio cards.

So yes in PC you can use your GPU or CPU to close that different with brute force but I am don't know how much this will affect is possible in some
games the game audio when use reververence will tax performance and they some PC gamer realized that maybe the never think about it ....I am
kidding most of them just will just say "lazy devs" .

I don't know which fanboy side hate more but with this new consoles approaching the PC master race is earning points in a very peculiar way:

-We always have the same 3d audio like the new consoles (most of them never check its chip when buy the motherboard)
-We had since many years ago SSD so this peasants don't impress me(the guy who has a SATA SSD of around 500 MB/s)
-The DDLS of NVIDIA will destroy the consoles (Use it in just a couple of games and talking about consoles which I almost sure we are going to see similar solution like DirectML)
-The consoles only will have the same graphics just in ultra (those who has playing less than 10 years)
-Is impossible the console are better performance than my 500 dollars GPU which I bought 32 years ago (they actually think the price of those of GPU doesn't has a huge a margin of profit)
-The PC gaming always has be the target market for all studios (Yeah all those studios love to have so low attach rate and the pc gaming many time refuse to pay 60 dollars)

Sometimes that group combinate the worst of Play and Xbox fanboys, just looks the last stream of Linnus when he feel offended when Tim Sweeney mention how good the SSD of PS5 is.

I mean sorry Linnus I like your videos I found entertainment but man you are none in the gaming dev universe, even our unbiased Alex of DF has much more weight and knowledge that
him.

 

[IkarugaDE]

Dude that demo made them go on full damage control

If you ask people in North Korea what's the best country to life they also wouldn't answer South Korea.

 

[Radical_3d]

Yes I know for example my Asus Strix 270e has a chip for that I am sure that is not even close to which have both consoles.

Probably the only people who can get better audio are those with discrete audio cards, probably the exists much more people
with the current high end GPU than those with a that kind of audio cards.

So yes in PC you can use your GPU or CPU to close that different with brute force but I am don't know how much this will affect is possible in some
games the game audio when use reververence will tax performance and they some PC gamer realized that maybe the never think about it ....I am
kidding most of them just will just say "lazy devs" .

I don't know which fanboy side hate more but with this new consoles approaching the PC master race is earning points in a very peculiar way:

-We always have the same 3d audio like the new consoles (most of them never check its chip when buy the motherboard)
-We had since many years ago SSD so this peasants don't impress me(the guy who has a SATA SSD of around 500 MB/s)
-The DDLS of NVIDIA will destroy the consoles (Use it in just a couple of games and talking about consoles which I almost sure we are going to see similar solution like DirectML)
-The consoles only will have the same graphics just in ultra (those who has playing less than 10 years)
-Is impossible the console are better performance than my 500 dollars GPU which I bought 32 years ago (they actually think the price of those of GPU doesn't has a huge a margin of profit)
-The PC gaming always has be the target market for all studios (Yeah all those studios love to have so low attach rate and the pc gaming many time refuse to pay 60 dollars)

Sometimes that group combinate the worst of Play and Xbox fanboys, just looks the last stream of Linnus when he feel offended when Tim Sweeney mention how good the SSD of PS5 is.

I mean sorry Linnus I like your videos I found entertainment but man you are none in the gaming dev universe, even our unbiased Alex of DF has much more weight and knowledge that
him.

I can’t stand that Linnus guy and his thumbnail face. But that’s classic little-tennis-racket-socks team. I still remember those gaffers post from late 2012 saying “with a 2GB card you’ll be all right for the next generation blah blah blah”. Yeah. How did that go?

 

[HAL-01]

Nanite use precalculated and sorted data on disk. That way it don't need whole mesh, but can grab only that polygons it need at specific moment. You have only two ways to add animation to that type of render. Rebuild data on disk which is practically impossible in gaming console (and would kill it faster than RROD killed first revision of X360) or by rendering every object as separate picture and composing them, but that not only would not work for characters (only rigid body animation), but also would be to slow for real time render.

Like I said, epic wouldn’t have put all their eggs in this basket if all they could ever render well was rocks.
i believe in human ingenuity and look forward to whatever solutions both epic and ICE team got in store for us

 

[kuncol02]

Not that I know of.

Did you watch this video? It seems to be able to convert even captured video motion into moving voxels

Didn't saw that one. Face is quite easy. That's just another dimension in your data. There is only one problem with that. . Amount of data you would need would skyrocket with that aproach. Every frame is basically another tree like in 2d uncompressed animation every frame is another full picture.
Scene with tank is probably rendered with multiple passes. Each part separately.
I saw one paper with idea of dynamic calculation of boundaries of nodes for traversal, but I'm not sure if that's possible with nanite and in addition that would require same transformation for whole tree, because without that you could move boundaries of one branch into another one.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Unreal 5 demo at over 11 million views.

V has come to

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Didn't saw that one. Face is quite easy. That's just another dimension in your data. There is only one problem with that. . Amount of data you would need would skyrocket with that aproach. Every frame is basically another tree like in 2d uncompressed animation every frame is another full picture.
Scene with tank is probably rendered with multiple passes. Each part separately.
I saw one paper with idea of dynamic calculation of boundaries of nodes for traversal, but I'm not sure if that's possible with nanite and in addition that would require same transformation for whole tree, because without that you could move boundaries of one branch into another one.

I'm not sure what they're doing there. Closest thing to a paper is this


Below's a timestamp to where they talk about animation, they say the crocodile is sourced from a low poly model, iirc. But it seems they're able to handle animations


edit:
Watched it he says the uncompressed video is around 5GB. But that once compression is used in the future it should fall by 85-98%.

98% would give 100MB for the 20min animation.

 

[silent head]

Brief impressions from Mike Bithell on DualSense

 

[kuncol02]

I'm not sure what they're doing there. Closest thing to a paper is this


Below's a timestamp to where they talk about animation, they say the crocodile is sourced from a low poly model, iirc. But it seems they're able to handle animations


edit:
Watched it he says the uncompressed video is around 5GB. But that once compression is used in the future it should fall by 85-98%.

On head you can see that artifacts from scaning change with every frame. It definitely is animated with separate model for each frame. Crocodile is interesting. It can be prebaked animation same way as face in previous example, or it can use that technique with tree nodes boundaries deformation with lower jaw as separate object.
By the way, that demo (crocodile only) was barely running on i7 with 50GB of ram.

 

[Radical_3d]

Brief impressions from Mike Bithell on DualSense

June, come quickly!

 

[Agnostic2020]

Brief impressions from Mike Bithell on DualSense

Oh so sony still has people under nda for dual sense features not revealed . Interesting