Thugnificient
Banned
Would just like to point if it was found out some PS5 games used VRS, people would start saying things like "The PS5 is already at its limits because it needs VRS hur hur".
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Digital Foundry claims PS5 doesn't exhibit any evidence of VRS(Variable Rate Shading) from PS5 showcase.
- Thread starter semicool
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Die Namek Ability
Member
I watched their whole video reaction. To me it didn't seem like any kinda FUD. I think they did the best they could with what was provided and overall seemed to come away impressed. Maybe thier was VRS but they couldn't measure because they didn't have source who knows. Either way you dont need a pixle counter to know Spiderman, Ratchet, Horizon 2 and Demon Souls look bad@$$.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Why would you use VRS when you have a smarter tech? Engines optimized for PS5 will rather have expected, locked polygon count per frame. That UE5 demo was doing an overkill with 20 million per frame, 4.7 polygons per pixel per frame! More than 800 million polygons per second (averaging in the 40's fps for solid 30fps). And to put it down to 1 polygon per pixel per frame that'll scale down to 8.5 million polygons per frame for native 4K.
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Die Namek Ability
Member
Yeah that would be awesome, i just dont think any of the games shown are using UE5. In the future though i totally agree
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yeah that would be awesome, i just dont think any of the games shown are using UE5. In the future though i totally agree
I think most of PS Studios already have their own copy of that Nanite tech, probably not Polyphony engine as it's the most suspect to have used VRS as some parts showed the ladder effect to me with some pop ins as well. GT7 is still using old LOD methods.
Die Namek Ability
Member
I was wondering about that because Sony worked so closely with Epic did they harvest some of the tech for thier own studios and engines? That would be cool, but im sure thiers some sort of legal obligation somewhere in there.
truthseeker
Banned
Actually Mesh shaders is a more advanced version of primitive shaders.
Primitive shaders was a Vegas feature that was never turned on and drivers were discontinued at launch.
They were finally turned on and supported with RDNA 1.
Primitive shaders try to work with the current geometry pipeline to achieve greater efficiency.
Mesh shaders basically abolishes/completely redefines it. Mesh shaders is very very low level while primitive shaders is high level.
Primitive shaders don't support meshlets for example. There are things that they both overlap at though.
For example automatic primitive culling.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
That is incorrect, mesh shaders are a hardware implementation and is a further advancement on the "Geometry engine" aka primitive shaders in AMD architecture. Or newer hardware revision on previous primitive shaders in AMDs pipeline.
Also, see truthseekers post above.
DF
"
Other forward-looking features also make the cut. Again, similar to Nvidia's existing Turing architecture, mesh shaders are incorporated into RDNA 2, allowing for a potentially explosive improvement in geometric detail.
"As GPUs have gotten wider and computing performance has increased, geometry processing has become more and more bound on the fixed function vertex issue triangle setup and tessellation blocks of the GPU," reveals Goossen. "Mesh shading allows developers to completely bypass those fixed function bottlenecks by providing an optional alternative to the existing parts of the GPU pipeline. In addition to performance, mesh shading offers developers flexibility and memory savings. Mesh shading will allow game developers to increase detail in the shapes and animations of objects and render more complex scenes with no sacrifice to frame-rate."
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
Xbox Dev Demonstrates NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti & Xbox Series X Mesh Shaders Performance With DirectX 12 Ultimate API
Earlier this week, Microsoft announced its latest DirectX 12 Ultimate API which aims to provide a unified platform to developers for next-generation graphics on PC and consoles. One of the key features of the announcement was the addition of Mesh Shaders to the DX12 framework & the Principal...
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's more like Epic copied Sony, but it's a collaboration effort after all as it sounded from Tim Sweeney. Doesn't mean all PS Studios have it currently.
Why can't we have a discussion around VRS and if it's usefulness and pertinent evidence around it's relevance in forthcoming consoles? And certainly don't try and prohibit it's discussion for others but if not interested yourself in the discussion, just don't join in? But certainly VRS has significance?
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namekuseijin
Banned
VRS, RDNA, FLOPS... fuck this tag soup
shows us beautiful good games running fine. We're gamers, not pixel counting technicians...
shows us beautiful good games running fine. We're gamers, not pixel counting technicians...
Die Namek Ability
Member
Thats an interesting perspective in which i haven't put much thought, but interesting indeed. My only question is why would Sony allow this? And if they had the technology already and Epic piggy backed off them why did Epic show it off and not Sony and why would Sony allow this to slip to the competitors console?
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MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
It's already been explained that both consoles have their own form of 'VRS'.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's pretty simple: Making 3rd party devs more tempted to develop for PS5 or at least reach the full potential of its hardware. The event showed 12 timed 3rd party console exclusives, faster development cycles would help more permanent/timed exclusives for PS5 going forward using develop-friendly tech.
PS5 super-fast loading led Epic to rewrite parts of Unreal Engine 5
It's that fast
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It's been explained otherwise in this thread and elsewhere. And now there is new data, from DF, showing that. Hence the thread and discussion. All different perspectives so far has been speculative, so new information is relevant especially when the information is still unknown.
If new information comes out further down the road ...say even from Sony or MS, are you going to prohibit discussion then?
It's an interesting, informative and relevant DF article. I'd like to know more myself.
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DragoonWalker
Member
No idea what any of this means. Never understood why Digital Foundry is so important to people who don't have any technical know how. If it's a looker, it's a looker. I have my own eyes.
Die Namek Ability
Member
To me it doesn't seem worthwhile to get a few extra 3rd parties games exclusive on your system if they were going to make thier game on the console anyway. IMO Sony has alreay taken MS to the cleaner in regards to exclusivity last gen and all signs are pointing to the same thing this gen so why would they need this deal? The fan in me says yeah it totally makes sense, Sony get all the exclusivity but logically it doesn't make much sense.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Exclusives, even timed, are VERY console-sellers. Plus, smarter, faster development = less budget. It's not all about exclusive alone, it's how the games will look in your console, that's the most important. Going back to VRS bullshit, why would you need that here?
Or here, an indie, small game reaching CGI level on PS5 just like Insomniac:
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MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Not gonna lie, he looks like a farnsgoth.How can i take THIS guy serious?
Forget the games or how awesome horizon 2 looked.
No vrs well fuck me ps5 is shit
Fuck. This. Pc. Wanker.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Oh, my stance is that currently PS5 games dont need VRS and can hit thier traget in a full native 4k. I believe once the generation progresses and graphic fidelity is more demanding then sacrifices such as native 4k to vrs may need to happen.Exclusives, even timed, are VERY console-sellers. Plus, smarter, faster development = less budget. It's not all about exclusive alone, it's how the games will look in your console, that's the most important. Going back to VRS bullshit, why would you need that here?
Or here, an indie, small game reaching CGI level on PS5 just like Insomniac:
itsjustJEFF
Member
This right here, VRS = Xbox solution, Geometry Engine = Playstation solution.If the results are the same, then DF saw no evidence. My understanding is that they are different results. Nvidia has VRS in their RTX line of GPU s. Case in point, in the same article about the Geometry Engine:
"Elsewhere, another aspect of the Cerny presentation paid off spectacularly. One of the key features of the new GPU is the Geometry Engine, giving developers unprecedented control over triangles and other primitives and easy control over geometry culling. There's nothing new in terms of principles here - it boils down to removing the need to render triangles that end up being invisible in the final frame. The less geometry you process, the less work there is for the GPU, meaning that resources can be used elsewhere. The immense richness in detail seen in idTech 7 and Call of Duty Modern Warfare's IW8 engine owes much to culling. However, the next-gen geometry engine does this at the hardware level, while opening the door to primitive shaders, which helps to streamline the entire process.
"
PlayStation 5: Does the new Sony console deliver the next-gen dream?
Yes, we finally saw the console, we know what it looks like and how gigantic it is - but crucially, yesterday's PlaySta…www.eurogamer.net
VRS in other commentary.
"
My understand of VRS/GE is the the console only Renders what is visible to you, or gives what is visible the most "triangles" or whatever. Please let me know if I am not understand it correctly. How are you suppose to know if the back of what you're looking at is being rendered based on a video? If that's what VRS/GE is doing you should never be able to see it, or even know it's happening, right?
Jtibh
Banned
Now you make me google what that is.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's more of smarter tech will evolve, those games are still pre-alpha and not fully optimized. But GT7 showed some VRS crap as I still believe it's using the ancient LOD system.
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Jtibh
Banned
Help me out here. What is it?
thelastword
Banned
So at first it didn't have hardware RT, but yesterday the games showed hardware accelerated RT before the manufacturer who they proposed was the only one with hardware RT. Now PS5 does not have VRS, even though the geometry engine/cache scrubbers is an even more advanced VRS pipeline. I guess Sony has to actually show everything for them to believe, yet PR and talk is fine for other manufacturers outside of visual proof.
Again Geometry Engine on ps5 is comparable to the mesh shaders on XSX.
VRS is a further optimization feature which the XSX has in addition to mesh shaders. Mesh shaders(XSX) and primitive shaders(ps5) are a superior optimization technique according to Sony's Matt Hargett s opinion. But VRS and mesh shaders(geometry engine aka primitive shaders on ps5) are complementary on XSX and are different optimizations built into the hardware. Whether the PS5 has a VRS equivalent, again the Geometry engine isn't, is unknown but appears unlikely as apparently more evident from DF article just posted this evening linked in the OP of this thread.
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Andodalf
Banned
No. GE is not VRS, GE is trying to cull unused meshes, VRS lets some elements of the screen be shaded at a lower rate. Both are about efficiency, but are totally different tech. XSX has mesh shading, which some say might be even more advanced.
Blond
Banned
How can i take THIS guy serious?
Forget the games or how awesome horizon 2 looked.
No vrs well fuck me ps5 is shit
Fuck. This. Pc. Wanker.
The Virgin Sonygaffer vs The Chad Frameanalyzer
thelastword
Banned
No, primitive shaders on PS5 is the equivalent of mesh shaders on XSX. The Geometry engine is what does all the work, the cache scrubbers frees up even more performance....which is the whole point of VRS. Perf.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Whelp. The honeymoon period is over. PS5 is trash now. /s
GermanZepp
Member
Jtibh
Banned
Or just an adult male with solid background and family vs a pc master race soyboy.
Major_Key
perm warning for starting troll/bait threads
OUCH...
VRS is crucial imo.
Imagine VRS with games gain +18 perf and Mesh Shaders > Primitive Shaders, the difference will be abysmal...
52CU Full Scene RT (and not just "clank") more Memory Bandwitch & optimized with revolutionary content mapping Velocity Architecture (SFS,BCpack).
VRS is crucial imo.
Imagine VRS with games gain +18 perf and Mesh Shaders > Primitive Shaders, the difference will be abysmal...
52CU Full Scene RT (and not just "clank") more Memory Bandwitch & optimized with revolutionary content mapping Velocity Architecture (SFS,BCpack).
Blond
Banned
It was a joke my bad
NullZ3r0
Banned
From what we saw yesterday, it needs 30 extra frames.
Jtibh
Banned
Gotta collect the microsoft paycheck somehow you know.
Every thread xfans make is just trashing the console.
But since there is nothing xbox related to talk about i understand
bargeparty
Member
What's their thoughts on the usb port placement?
Explosive Zombie
Banned
"We also noticed the Xbox Series X displayed no capability of playing Horizon Zero Dawn II" - Digital Foundry, probably
Jtibh
Banned
No jokes allowed.
This is gaf. Ps5 reveal. Its war.
You cool. Still dont like alex
JerryinSoCal
Member
The funny thing is when VRS is used they'll knock the games for having graphical issues, they blow things up 300% as it is now to find flaws lol.
Dory16
Banned
Some of us like to know what we pay for.
Dory16
Banned
30 FPS isn’t impressive in next gen systems. They told us this was the future of gaming and future games will only be more demanding in resources.
thelastword
Banned
The crazy thing is before anything MS prefaces by saying "XSX, the most powerful console ever". Yet, being the most powerful console doesn't seem to be enough to give them the best performance and better looking games, so they need VRS which lowers detail, albeit with not much in terms of customization to improve the method than the standard VRS implementations we've seen.
So why is it so important for Richard and MS fans to declare VRS as their trump card this gen. Makes no sense, the console is already powerful enough on just bruteforce, According to ColtEastwood XSX should show a 40-50fps advantage over similar PS5 games....Is that because of this VRS sauce?
