Support NeoGAF

[Jon Neu]

i have to thank you sir you just made it easy for me to put you on my ignore list

 

[kyliethicc]

I find you lack of understanding very funny.

One of the applications of hardware assisted machine learning is that the new xbox will automatically add ML HDR to the entire catalog of backward compatible games. Spanning from all xbox one games that dont have HDR all the way back to 360 ang og xbox games.

So imagine playing Red dead redemption 1, Ninja Gaiden 1/2/3,
EVERY Call of duty / Dark souls Assasins creed / Final fantasy / Gears of war / Halo / Resident evil / Sonic / Tom clancy / Tomb raider with HDR, down even to Midnight Run, Daytona, Crazy taxi, ms Pac man and freakin' Arkanoid.

ML HDR along with increased performance and I.Q.

Now, laught again about that, as I want to see something

Great point, as DF said with Halo, the lighting will fix everything.


Interesting choice between the two systems.


Xbox Series X - play Gex Mad Dash Racing .... but WITH HDR

or


PlayStation 5 - play new games

 

[Agnostic2020]

Great point, as DF said with Halo, the lighting will fix everything.

Do u wanna see him cry ? He has been on the edge of losing it for few weeks now. Let him be

 

[CrysisFreak]

I find you lack of understanding very funny.

One of the applications of hardware assisted machine learning is that the new xbox will automatically add ML HDR to the entire catalog of backward compatible games. Spanning from all xbox one games that dont have HDR all the way back to 360 ang og xbox games.

So imagine playing Red dead redemption 1, Ninja Gaiden 1/2/3,
EVERY Call of duty / Dark souls Assasins creed / Final fantasy / Gears of war / Halo / Resident evil / Sonic / Tom clancy / Tomb raider with HDR, down even to Midnight Run, Daytona, Crazy taxi, ms Pac man and freakin' Arkanoid.

ML HDR along with increased performance and I.Q.

Now, laught again about that, as I want to see something

Calm down Craig it's all just lighthearted fun there is no need to be upset.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Part 2 Hot Chips analysis is up.

"microsoft let amd take the lead desinging cpu & gpu, and only asked for a few customizations here and there for certain functionality, like backward compatibility"


ok, this guy is a complete tool, and anybody who thinks something else simply has no clue was he is talking about either.

 

[xHunter]

Great point, as DF said with Halo, the lighting will fix everything.

Congratulations sir, you made it into the list.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Great point, as DF said with Halo, the lighting will fix everything.

Calm down Craig it's all just lighthearted fun there is no need to be upset.

you know what guys? I think Jim Sterling was right on the money regarding what he said about sony and their plan to use "their most loyal, sycophantic and uncritical fans to manipulate their narrative",
and that is really-really sad

 

[LiquidRex]

 

[SportsFan581]

if they hit the ps5's 2.23 ghz, thats 22.8 tflops and should be on par with the rtx 3080's performance sans ray tracing and dlss.

even if they top out between 2.0-2.15 ghz, thats still very close to the rtx 3080's shader performance. the real problem they will face is with ray tracing and dlss.

they better have dedicated ray tracing cores and dedicated ML cores hidden in there somewhere. whatever is in the PS5 and xsx TMUs simply wont be enough to compete against nvidia gpus.

i have no idea how they plan to launch this at $499 with a gpu that large. thats easily a $700 gpu. 2x the number of CUs as a 5700xt, its bound to be way more than just a $100 more expensive.

Look at the size of nVidia's dies though, quite a good value per mm2, that's for sure. With that said, big navi should be smaller in die area than the 3070, it's hard to say where they fall in pricing. I hope they follow nVidia's lead and go with conservative memory allotments but allow board makers to double up if desired.

I don't think AMD is going to move forward with dedicated RT/ML hardware, I think their approach is to get the best acceleration they can with as few feature specific transistors as possible. The 5700 was priced as it could be given the market at the time, not based on cost.

 

[hemo memo]

Day 7: That's a one way trip to hell. Although we are already in a type of hell.

Announce it already SOOONNNNYYYYY!!!!!!

PS5 is comingtm Any day now.

 

[OrionNebula]

I’m entertaining the idea that xbox is only awaiting for Sony to announce and lock on shit before delaying the console(s) to next year

I’m just very uncertain of the damage it would represent for them vs launching with an A-list next year (and potentially slightly different specs, too)

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Great point, as DF said with Halo, the lighting will fix everything.


Interesting choice between the two systems.


Xbox Series X - play Gex Mad Dash Racing .... but WITH HDR

or


PlayStation 5 - play new games

Reminds me of hardcore PC gamers, "hey look I can run a 15 year old game with basic ass geometry at 4K 120 FPS with RT with my $1500 GPU!"

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Look at the size of nVidia's dies though, quite a good value per mm2, that's for sure. With that said, big navi should be smaller in die area than the 3070, it's hard to say where they fall in pricing. I hope they follow nVidia's lead and go with conservative memory allotments but allow board makers to double up if desired.

I don't think AMD is going to move forward with dedicated RT/ML hardware, I think their approach is to get the best acceleration they can with as few feature specific transistors as possible. The 5700 was priced as it could be given the market at the time, not based on cost.

We know from xbox hot chips presentation that rdna2 will support hardware acceleration on inference learning, 4-bit and 8-bit placing and math operations. I have also seen somewhere an AMD slide where they are showing external supercompute for ops that are similar to DLSS2 (and we know thats what microsoft is doing with xbox anyway), so basically the ability of amd on RT/ML will come down to the amount of CUs in my opinion.

 

[SportsFan581]

We know from xbox hot chips presentation that rdna2 will support hardware acceleration on inference learning, 4-bit and 8-bit placing and math operations. I have also seen somewhere an AMD slide where they are showing external supercompute for ops that are similar to DLSS2 (and we know thats what microsoft is doing with xbox anyway), so basically the ability of amd on RT/ML will come down to the amount of CUs in my opinion.

Absolutely, I was meaning more that AMD wouldn't take nVidia's approach of dedicating a lot of transistors to ML/RT. AMD does appear to have some fixed function hardware, but seem to have taken the how little space can we use to get X result approach. Plus, AMD's ML would need to be used more carefully as those tops come at the expense of shader performance, where nVidia's tensor tops have no effect on the shaders (other than reducing the number offered by eating die space).

 

[LiquidRex]

I’m entertaining the idea that xbox is only awaiting for Sony to announce and lock on shit before delaying the console(s) to next year

I’m just very uncertain of the damage it would represent for them vs launching with an A-list next year (and potentially slightly different specs, too)

But aren't Sony and Microsoft manufacturing the consoles, and have been doing so since July.

 

[silent head]

Astral was cought lieing again

 

[CrysisFreak]

you know what guys? I think Jim Sterling was right on the money regarding what he said about sony and their plan to use "their most loyal, sycophantic and uncritical fans to manipulate their narrative",
and that is really-really sad

>quoting Jim "fat cuck" Sterling
>ever
If that is how low you need to sink then we need to stop discussing friendomundo

 

[OrionNebula]

But aren't Sony and Microsoft manufacturing the consoles, and have been doing so since July.

You got a point there. So specs tempering would be out, but delay is not out of the question for xbox, though (is there an actual report on series x mass production? We’ve seen Sony, but I don’t recall seeing something similar on the x)

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Absolutely, I was meaning more that AMD wouldn't take nVidia's approach of dedicating a lot of transistors to ML/RT. AMD does appear to have some fixed function hardware, but seem to have taken the how little space can we use to get X result approach. Plus, AMD's ML would need to be used more carefully as those tops come at the expense of shader performance, where nVidia's tensor tops have no effect on the shaders (other than reducing the number offered by eating die space).

just going 100% by NVIDIA advertising/presentation numbers, where they used microsoft's methodology on providing the combined GPU+RT performance, with 2080ti having a combined 45TF compared to 25TF of xbox,
if one wanted to calculate the scenario where the most powerful AMD rdna2 gpu would offer not 52 CUs like xbox does, but 80 or 100 or 120 CUs, and with a 10%-20% upgrade in clock speeds, I can definitely see an AMD GPU being very-very competitive to series 3000 even on RT.
But, that's only speculation, with very limited data.

 

[Agnostic2020]

you know what guys? I think Jim Sterling was right on the money regarding what he said about sony and their plan to use "their most loyal, sycophantic and uncritical fans to manipulate their narrative",
and that is really-really sad

U seem disturbed . I would seek help if I were u but u do u

 

[hemo memo]

you know what guys? I think Jim Sterling was right on the money regarding what he said about sony and their plan to use "their most loyal, sycophantic and uncritical fans to manipulate their narrative",
and that is really-really sad

Yeah that direct pre-orders move from Sony was beyond idiocy.

 

[PSX]

I have seen a lot of posts and articles about the new GPUS from Nvidia no need to compare consoles to the new gpus in term of power doesn't make any sense on my opinion, yes those new gpus either from Nvidia or AMD are powerful beasts. but it doesn't get me the nostalgia of press and play with clean setup, if we get new GPU that means we all be involved with a lot of frustration before even upgrade or build new PC. consoles always be the one to go even with less power.

Consoles offers:

1. value $500 probably less.
2. console.
3. controller.
4. exclusives games most importantly.
5. features.
6. easy to plug and play.
7. simple and less stress over too many options in PC world.

PC is too expensive specifically with new consoles coming out around the corner.
Hint: put you extra cash in new TV or SSD

If you still want to upgrade however the best advice to wait for 2 years until games show the real next gen games what they capable of, as for "now" nothing is impressive on PC.
oh forgot to mention PC will cast at least $1000+ compare to consoles.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

>quoting Jim "fat cuck" Sterling
>ever
If that is how low you need to sink then we need to stop discussing friendomundo

its funny how our definitions of "low" differ so much.
now go on, keep ridiculing everything xbox and praising everything sony.

 

[SlimySnake]

Look at the size of nVidia's dies though, quite a good value per mm2, that's for sure. With that said, big navi should be smaller in die area than the 3070, it's hard to say where they fall in pricing. I hope they follow nVidia's lead and go with conservative memory allotments but allow board makers to double up if desired.

I don't think AMD is going to move forward with dedicated RT/ML hardware, I think their approach is to get the best acceleration they can with as few feature specific transistors as possible. The 5700 was priced as it could be given the market at the time, not based on cost.

the rtx 2080 dies were massive too. the rtx 2070 die is almost twice as big as the 5700, and only $100 more expensive.

the big navi is supposedly 501 mm2. i just dont see it launching for $500 though i suspect nvidia has left AMD no choice here but to launch it at that.

 

[zaitsu]

just going 100% by NVIDIA advertising/presentation numbers, where they used microsoft's methodology on providing the combined GPU+RT performance, with 2080ti having a combined 45TF compared to 25TF of xbox,
if one wanted to calculate the scenario where the most powerful AMD rdna2 gpu would offer not 52 CUs like xbox does, but 80 or 100 or 120 CUs, and with a 10%-20% upgrade in clock speeds, I can definitely see an AMD GPU being very-very competitive to series 3000 even on RT.
But, that's only speculation, with very limited data.

I hate this cocksucker

 

[Phrixotrichus]

The weakest next-gen console will be more powerful than the majority of PCs out there. So PC is going to hold back next-gen consoles whether you liked that reality or not.

Utter bullshit!
The consoles are the development baseline.
Min-requirements for ports will be adapted and higher end PCs will upscale from that as always.

And if you are already invested in PC gaming the way you say, why would you care about console power at all? Do you have insecurity problems?

Why would you assume that I care about console power when correcting false hardware price claims for PC components? Insecure much?

 

[Kerlurk]

But the info is not public, so what's so funny?

 

[SportsFan581]

just going 100% by NVIDIA advertising/presentation numbers, where they used microsoft's methodology on providing the combined GPU+RT performance, with 2080ti having a combined 45TF compared to 25TF of xbox,
if one wanted to calculate the scenario where the most powerful AMD rdna2 gpu would offer not 52 CUs like xbox does, but 80 or 100 or 120 CUs, and with a 10%-20% upgrade in clock speeds, I can definitely see an AMD GPU being very-very competitive to series 3000 even on RT.
But, that's only speculation, with very limited data.

I'm anxious to see how AMD's cards stack up to nVidia in RTX performance, will definitely be something to keep an eye on. MS's 25TF number has worried me a bit (at least in how they presented it). They basically insinuated a 100% RT performance gain vs. a part that did not have the RT tech, that's actually quite low (the 20 series boosted RT performance 3 or 4 times or more in comparison to the 10 series and the 20 series didn't really offer that much of a bump in general rasterization). Hopefully AMD is good and competitive, better for everyone that way (especially console gamers).

MS did say 3 - 10x RT acceleration, so hopefully the solution is a lot more performant than what I'm thinking in my head. LOL

 

[hemo memo]

Could you guys stop posting every attention seeker on here?

 

[LiquidRex]

You got a point there. So specs tempering would be out, but delay is not out of the question for xbox, though (is there an actual report on series x mass production? We’ve seen Sony, but I don’t recall seeing something similar on the x)

I'm sure there was a French article on the production started for XSX back in May, if Microsoft haven't started production yet then they'll be considerably less consoles available on launch day compared to PS5.
I understand its thought the XSX will release before the PS5 may be by a week or so.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

Ha yeah anyone saying these consoles are in any way shape or form close to the new 3000 series GPUs are fooling themselves. I will be totally happy with 2070/2080 performance in a console if we don't have to pay more than $499 each. That being said i would also happily pay say $700-800(Maybe more) for them if they actually WERE closer to the 3000 series GPUs.

What you mean like the PS5 SSD. Not being better than what PC will have. Look how that turned out. I wouldn't jump the gun on anything. Consoles are built for gaming. PC's are not. The performance levels are not the same.These new consoles are coming out with current & more advance tech than the PC space. So they are not behind at all.You are majorly jumping the gun.

There's a lot of hype on these 3000 which have not proven anything.All Jenson could show off was rolling marbles at 1440P ,30FPS. I thought the PC Elite don't do 30FPS. But now its cool. Funny.The truth & reality is Nvidia showed us rolling marbles. Which is pretty much the equivalent of the xbox minecraft rtx demo. But you want to convince me that 3000 series are better.Based on what?? Rolling marbles. Both consoles can run that marble demo.

The truth & reality is the PS5 showcased the UE5 demo. The best next gen looking display seen thus far. UE5 demo is the visual benchmark going into next gen thus far. But you want to convince me that 3000 series are better.Based on what??? The PS5 is streaming in 8K cinema assets on the fly. It's the only device to show "next gen" visuals. It wasn't a 3000 cards. So excuse me if I don't believe the bold.Until evidence shows up.If it does I'll accept it. But right now as I type 3000, is just looking overpriced for what it delivers.

People are still stuck in 2013 mind stat. It's 2020 tech has changed drastically. Simply look how the PS5 is clocked higher than 3080 "desktop gpu'' with much smaller power consumption. Look how consoles are on 7nm & 3070/80 are on 8nm.Again these new consoles are coming out with current & more advance tech than the PC space. So you are jumping the gun. Let's wait & see.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I'm anxious to see how AMD's cards stack up to nVidia in RTX performance, will definitely be something to keep an eye on. MS's 25TF number has worried me a bit (at least in how they presented it). They basically insinuated a 100% RT performance gain vs. a part that did not have the RT tech, that's actually quite low (the 20 series boosted RT performance 3 or 4 times or more in comparison to the 10 series and the 20 series didn't really offer that much of a bump in general rasterization). Hopefully AMD is good and competitive, better for everyone that way (especially console gamers).

MS did say 3 - 10x RT acceleration, so hopefully the solution is a lot more performant than what I'm thinking in my head. LOL

well, I am not anxious, and neither you should be. these are very rich corporations. let them cook what they have to cook, and let them fight.
nvidia's new series announced price range sure does seem like a benefit for us from their fight. in about a month we will see what amd can do.
sip your cocktails relaxing until then :]

 

[SportsFan581]

well, I am not anxious, and neither you should be. these are very rich corporations. let them cook what they have to cook, and let them fight.
nvidia's new series announced price range sure does seem like a benefit for us from their fight. in about a month we will see what amd can do.
sip your cocktails relaxing until then :]

A figure of speech my man, a figure of speech.

 

[TGO]

All aboard guys & girls, I ain't got clue where or when we're going, but I'll get you there! Choo, Choo!

 

[INC]

Astral was cought lieing again

Yay more cgi or in-engine bullshit

These 2 companies marketing is horrific

 

[IntentionalPun]

Could you guys stop posting every attention seeker on here?

I tried making an official containment thread but it didn't work:

The official fanboy drivel from Twitter thread

Hi GAf, I made a thread for you guys to post idiotic fanboy drivel that is not remotely on topic in the threads you guys post it in. Here's a nice single place for you guys to post it. Alternatively, if you want to browse idiotic fanboy drivel on twitter.. there's a website for that, called...

www.neogaf.com

The obsession with what idiots are saying on twitter has absolutely ruined this thread, it's all anyone talks about.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Astral was cought lieing again

Man, you know Xbox fanboys are too delusional when they get corrected by Discord gang members themselves.

 

[Metroiddarks]

I'm anxious to see how AMD's cards stack up to nVidia in RTX performance, will definitely be something to keep an eye on. MS's 25TF number has worried me a bit (at least in how they presented it). They basically insinuated a 100% RT performance gain vs. a part that did not have the RT tech, that's actually quite low (the 20 series boosted RT performance 3 or 4 times or more in comparison to the 10 series and the 20 series didn't really offer that much of a bump in general rasterization). Hopefully AMD is good and competitive, better for everyone that way (especially console gamers).

MS did say 3 - 10x RT acceleration, so hopefully the solution is a lot more performant than what I'm thinking in my head. LOL

I think the AMD's GPU will be a little better in rasterization but noticeable worse in RT but here AMD have an advantage in long term which are the new consoles,
these will cause many studios start to optimize its RT solution to that specific hardware more than NVIDIA so is possible this delta will be reduce, the other thing
is if AMD is able to offer something against DLSS, I almost sure Xbox and Playstation will talk about its respective solution when they saw is becoming necessary.

 

[INC]

The obsession with what idiots are saying on twitter

Worked for trump tbh

 

[LiquidRex]

You got a point there. So specs tempering would be out, but delay is not out of the question for xbox, though (is there an actual report on series x mass production? We’ve seen Sony, but I don’t recall seeing something similar on the x)

As for PS5 specs, I think they have changed since the Road to PS5 discussion since March.
But let's see what they show during the Taredown event this month.

 

[Agnostic2020]

As for PS5 specs, I think they have changed since the Road to PS5 discussion since March.
But let's see what they show during the Taredown event this month.

Nah everything is booked long ago even ram was booked in April when road to ps5 happened . Cause they had to order part and have it in manufacturing plant by June for ps5 assembly

 

[LiquidRex]

I'm sure Crysis Remaster has Ray Tracing on current gen consoles too.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

As for PS5 specs, I think they have changed since the Road to PS5 discussion since March.
But let's see what they show during the Taredown event this month.

is this like a hunch? or you are basing this on something?
I mean, sony being quiet could be a sign of both. either that they are changing their specs (although difficult this late if releasing this year), or that they are shutting up about it in order to not cause more damage.

 

[OrionNebula]

As for PS5 specs, I think they have changed since the Road to PS5 discussion since March.
But let's see what they show during the Taredown event this month.

I keep hearing that, too.
But hearing is all we have been doing since Feb. Barely seeing, though

 

[OrionNebula]

I'm sure there was a French article on the production started for XSX back in May, if Microsoft haven't started production yet then they'll be considerably less consoles available on launch day compared to PS5.
I understand its thought the XSX will release before the PS5 may be by a week or so.

There probably won’t be a huge delay, if any.
Things only started to get really grim for the green team since Halo Infinite, last month. By that time, it would have been too late to stop that train, or at least not without substancial losses

They perhaps only observed that as a solution for a little while

What they potentially likely did, though, is lower the amount they originally planned to ship for ‘’Late 2020’’

 

[LiquidRex]

is this like a hunch? or you are basing this on something?
I mean, sony being quiet could be a sign of both. either that they are changing their specs (although difficult this late if releasing this year), or that they are shutting up about it in order to not cause more damage.

I keep hearing that, too.
But hearing is all we have been doing since Feb. Barely seeing, though

There have been multiple dev kits, all with incremental changes leading to the final product.

I reckon changes to clocks and, additional RAM for background tasks, freeing up more for Devs, similar to PS4 Pro

 

[MrS]

is this like a hunch? or you are basing this on something?
I mean, sony being quiet could be a sign of both. either that they are changing their specs (although difficult this late if releasing this year), or that they are shutting up about it in order to not cause more damage.

It's baseless conjecture sir. Pay it no mind.

 

[SportsFan581]

There have been multiple dev kits, all with incremental changes leading to the final product.

I reckon changes to clocks and, additional RAM for background tasks, freeing up more for Devs, similar to PS4 Pro

I've wondered myself if they have some cheap ram on there just for the OS/Video Capture/etc. If they do, that might not be a change though, just something they didn't go over the first time.

 

[LiquidRex]

With regards the Crysis Remaster... Don't be surprised if there's an Nvidia/Crysis marketing campaign over the next few weeks.

 

[MasterCornholio]

There have been multiple dev kits, all with incremental changes leading to the final product.

I reckon changes to clocks and, additional RAM for background tasks, freeing up more for Devs, similar to PS4 Pro

I'm not saying this will happen but which one would be better, faster ram or more ram?