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[kingpotato]

Now that we are a full 6 months into the new generation of consoles and have gotten to see some performance metrics for new releases, we're starting to get a sense for the performance gap between Xbox Series X and Series S.

There is no denying Series S actually provides amazing value. A bargain bin price for access to a new generation of games. Microsoft offers compelling streaming/subscription services now, so the lack of a disc drive is certainly more palatable than it was last generation.

The detriment here is the performance gap of course. Was it really worth pursuing the lowest price point at the cost of a significant performance gap? We're taking about last generation performance in some respects. Should Microsoft have pursued a Series S that was the same specs as the Series X but without the disc drive like the PS5 digital? It may have cost $100 more but that would still be competitive with regard to the competition and then you ditch the unevenness between the experiences players have. Another option may have been to keep Series S as is and introduced a third Series console. Thus pleasing all the juvenile gamers with a Series E .

So what do you think? Did they make the right call?

Spoiler: Disclaimer

My apologies if this discussion already happened and I just missed the thread. Also, I'm not really interested in discussing Sony's decision here, just wondering what people think about Microsoft's choice with the Series S so far.

 

[elliot5]

I think it's totally fine as is. They could have done a discless X, but the S is good and I'm not mad about it.

 

[THE DUCK]

Despite the ridiculous overreaction by mostly those who won't ever buy one or only own one brand, the s is complete fine as is. It will 100% hit its stride at $249 even more so at $199.

It's small, it's fast, it's quiet, and it's a decent 1080p gaming machine. And no it doesn't "ruin next gen".

 

[longdi]

in the longer run, MS hypervisor BC strategy will allow all games to run smoothly across all iteration of Xbox. SS works as it should

 

[kingpotato]

Despite the ridiculous overreaction by mostly those who won't ever buy one or only own one brand, the s is complete fine as is. It will 100% hit its stride at $249 even more so at $199.

It's small, it's fast, it's quiet, and it's a decent 1080p gaming machine. And no it doesn't "ruin next gen".

I totally agree that it shouldn't impact the quality of exclusive Xbox titles. If a game runs worse on the Series X because of the Series S, that's a problem with the developer, not the hardware. Supporting cross gen between the launch One and Series X however is another story.

 

[Unrivaledx88]

they deff should have, i think they messed up with this decision

 

[odhiex]

I am sure that an all-digital edition of the XBOX series X was in their plan to be released sometimes in the future.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Yup. Pissing away money if you buy one. If you want a "1080p" machine then buy a used phone for $20 or get an Xbox One X. You'll be disappointed by how inferior the little turd is and will eventually trade it in to your cuck daddy Gamestop for a big loss, then pay tax again to get the shit you should have got to begin with(the XSX). A single hour of dev time that is allocated to making sure shit can run on this thing is an absolute waste of time.

Xbox Series S Is The Worst Thing That Ever Happened To Gaming

 

[ZehDon]

I think the jury's still out. Give it a year or so, and we'll see what the market says.

On paper, in theory, the Series S totally makes sense. But, so did Kinect.

 

[wipeout364]

It’s a solid machine. It’s better than the Xbox one x by a fair margin at a lower cost. If you plan to play on 1080p it’s fine. The one down side to me is the hard drive space, I think they should have charged a little bit more to include a 1 tb drive.

 

[Menzies]

From an armchair consumer analysis, I think there's still plenty of people out there with 1080p TV's and it fits a niche of a more budget friendly consumer.

On the developer side, I have absolutely no idea how much of an ease/pain in the ass it is to optimize for the two hardware profiles. I imagine the experience is quite varied.

I imagine it's existence forces the hand of developers in terms of targets. Unless you're a PS5 exclusive, you can't target 2K CB with 30fps to have all the graphical bells and whistles enabled, which is good and bad as everyone was hating on 30fps consoles last gen.

 

[01011001]

the issue is not the performance level, it's the price. I think it is at least 50€/$ too much.
the storage is a huge issue for the price. because once you bought the expansion card you are basically in the price range of the Series X. and without an expansion card you will have a lot of issues as the generation goes on.

I bet the first thing we will see in terms of revisions is a Series S 1TB SSD variant for the same price as the current model

 

[TLZ]

A digital edition X was better.

 

[jaydogg691]

Series S is a perfectly capable machine and is the most console-like design for the casual audience. Does what it suppose to do and combined with Game Pass has the best value of the other 2 offerings. Only thing I would change is marketing the S as a 1080p machine rather than 1440p.

 

[THE DUCK]

Yup. Pissing away money if you buy one. If you want a "1080p" machine then buy a used phone for $20 or get an Xbox One X. You'll be disappointed by how inferior the little turd is and will eventually trade it in to your cuck daddy Gamestop for a big loss, then pay tax again to get the shit you should have got to begin with(the XSX). A single hour of dev time that is allocated to making sure shit can run on this thing is an absolute waste of time.

Xbox Series S Is The Worst Thing That Ever Happened To Gaming

This post just proves you don't understand the hardware whatsoever, the xbox one x is so inferior as a 1080p machine it's ridiculous.
Your post is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming.

 

[01011001]

Series S is a perfectly capable machine and is the most console-like design for the casual audience. Does what it suppose to do and combined with Game Pass has the best value of the other 2 offerings. Only thing I would change is marketing the S as a 1080p machine rather than 1440p.

yeah, the 1440p thing is something I never understood... the system has 4K games, it has 900p games and everything in between.
and people don't have 1440p TVs... they have 1080p tvs or 4K tvs. it should be marketed as a 1080p machine that is also 4K capable

 

[DarkMage619]

I think the jury's still out. Give it a year or so, and we'll see what the market says.

On paper, in theory, the Series S totally makes sense. But, so did Kinect.

I dunno man the Kinect was obviously a problem at the launch of the X1. It made the console MORE expensive than the PS4 and it was weaker too. It served as a reason to not buy an Xbox. How is the XSS doing the same thing?

 

[Vognerful]

I just want to say that making it similar to ps5 digital defeat the purpose of its existence. Sales figures show that there are maybe 1 to 5 or even more ratio between PS5DE to physical one. You cannot expand your market with an edition that is throttled at production and distribution.

But I would agree that maybe they should have made it 50 dollars cheaper.

 

[THE DUCK]

I just want to say that making it similar to ps5 digital defeat the purpose of its existence. Sales figures show that there are maybe 1 to 5 or even more ratio between PS5DE to physical one. You cannot expand your market with an edition that is throttled at production and distribution.

But I would agree that maybe they should have made it 50 dollars cheaper.

I think in a non pandemic world without electronics shortages, it would have launched at $249.

 

[jhjfss]

NO, the entire purpose of MS releasing 2 consoles was to sandwich PS5' with its rumored 400 price tag. They made it pretty clear they wanted a more powerful but more expensive console and a cheaper, but weaker console.

 

[ZehDon]

I dunno man the Kinect was obviously a problem at the launch of the X1. It made the console MORE expensive than the PS4 and it was weaker too. It served as a reason to not buy an Xbox. How is the XSS doing the same thing?

Well, you're looking at it the wrong way. In 2021, it's easy to forget that Kinect was a fucking juggernaut before the Xbone. At it's launch, Kinect set the world record for fastest selling consumer electronics device. Ever. For the Xbox 360, Kinect has an absolutely insane attachment rate - blows everything else out of the water. Looking forward to the next generation, the Xbone, it absolutely makes sense on paper that Kinect would form a key part of their next-gen Xbox strategy - they'd found a winner that resonated with consumers, and customers were buying this thing in spades. How could it fail?

The XSS employs a similar "safe bet" strategy: a cheaper next-gen console available on launch day. 4K hasn't become as widely used as manufacturers had hoped; there's plenty of room for a 1080p next-gen console in the market. It can also be positioned as a "second console" for the hardcore who want a Gamepass machine. And because it does everything the Xbox Series X can, you don't have to develop exclusive games for it like Nintendo did when they had both handhelds and home consoles. How could it fail?

I suspect we won't know for another year or so.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

MS is making same no of series s consoles as series x.

While Sony is making like 90% disc versions. Where I live discless version isn't even launched.

It's obvious discless ps5 makes little financial sense to Sony.

No idea why people are enamored with idea of discless series x, when it would practically be non-existent in market.

 

[THE DUCK]

Well, you're looking at it the wrong way. In 2021, it's easy to forget that Kinect was a fucking juggernaut before the Xbone. At it's launch, Kinect set the world record for fastest selling consumer electronics device. Ever. For the Xbox 360, Kinect has an absolutely insane attachment rate - blows everything else out of the water. Looking forward to the next generation, the Xbone, it absolutely makes sense on paper that Kinect would form a key part of their next-gen Xbox strategy - they'd found a winner that resonated with consumers, and customers were buying this thing in spades. How could it fail?

The XSS employs a similar "safe bet" strategy: a cheaper next-gen console available on launch day. 4K hasn't become as widely used as manufacturers had hoped; there's plenty of room for a 1080p next-gen console in the market. It can also be positioned as a "second console" for the hardcore who want a Gamepass machine. And because it does everything the Xbox Series X can, you don't have to develop exclusive games for it like Nintendo did when they had both handhelds and home consoles. How could it fail?

I suspect we won't know for another year or so.

Except that kinect increased the cost of an already expensive console with a competitor at a lower price, where as series s is a lower priced separate stand alone console, not really the same sort of bet.

 

[jroc74]

In hindsight, absolutely.

I think MS had a goal and definitely have different goals than Sony.

Even at the time it was revealed (and and more concrete specs were rumored before the reveal) ppl were questioning what the hell were they thinking. I kept hearing about a pincer attack on Sony from Xbox fanboys.

"how is Sony gonna handle this???"

...ever since the One X launched Sony was already living thru a pincer attack from MS....and look how that turned out....

 

[hemo memo]

Nah it was the right decision from MS.

 

[jroc74]

MS is making same no of series s consoles as series x.

While Sony is making like 90% disc versions. Where I live discless version isn't even launched.

It's obvious discless ps5 makes little financial sense to Sony.

No idea why people are enamored with idea of discless series x, when it would practically be non-existent in market.

When the PS5DE outsells the Series consoles ...combined..... damn near everywhere outside of NA....does it even matter how many of the digital consoles either company is making? On some level Sony must be making enough DE's to outsell the Series consoles.

 

[ZehDon]

Except that kinect increased the cost of an already expensive console with a competitor at a lower price, where as series s is a lower priced separate stand alone console, not really the same sort of bet.

You're looking at this with hindsight in 2021, you need to go back to 2013. Before the consoles were announced, the industry at large expected Microsoft to destroy Sony - the Xbox 360 had matched the previous-gen market leader and overtook it before the Xbone was announced. Microsoft was poised to win. However, Microsoft just wasn't ready for the PS4 - it's USD$399.00 surprised everyone at the time, and its increased 8GB of GDDR5 RAM was a shock to everyone... including Sony's first party developers working on the console. Microsoft brought a gun ready for a gun fight, and Sony dropped a fucking atom bomb on them. On paper, Kinect made sense... until they learned no one wanted Kinect in 2013, and Sony made a mockery of them. Microsoft clearly thought the "value add" of the Kinect would justify the additional cost, and I believe they even tried this approach during the launch window.

 

[skit_data]

Spencer said they would not ”be out of position on power or price”, but according to me they looked to be out of position on both when Sony revealed the PS5 DE.

 

[TheDreadLord]

I don’t think this comparison makes sense. Sony takes heavy losses on the PS5 DE as it is a full PS5 without a BD player. Series S on the other hand is a completely different beast focusing the budget market.

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

This post just proves you don't understand the hardware whatsoever, the xbox one x is so inferior as a 1080p machine it's ridiculous.
Your post is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming.

Sounds like someone's mum bought them an XSS for Christmas. I'd be trying to hype it up too in your situation. Here's the part where you tell me how great of a little emulator it is. In reality, it's a waste of developer funds.

 

[kingpotato]

It’s a solid machine. It’s better than the Xbox one x by a fair margin at a lower cost. If you plan to play on 1080p it’s fine. The one down side to me is the hard drive space, I think they should have charged a little bit more to include a 1 tb drive.

Is it better than one x by a fair margin? I was watching a performance comparison video for resident evil village and I swore they said the One X had a 4k mode that ran between 40 to 50fps and 1080 at 60fps, while the Series S ran 1440 at 60fps without RT or 30fps with RT. It made me think the One X could do 1440 at 60fps.

I don’t think this comparison makes sense. Sony takes heavy losses on the PS5 DE as it is a full PS5 without a BD player. Series S on the other hand is a completely different beast focusing the budget market.

Series S was meant to undercut Sony with a low price point, but that doesn't mean that Microsoft isn't selling it at a loss. I thought I remember reading Microsoft actually loses more on the Series S than the Series X sale, and justify the loss similarly.

 

[THE DUCK]

Sounds like someone's mum bought them an XSS for Christmas. I'd be trying to hype it up too in your situation. Here's the part where you tell me how great of a little emulator it is. In reality, it's a waste of developer funds.

Nope, I have a ps5, a series X, and a series S, I don't care which wins. And nope on the emulator front, haven't used it that way.
Nice try.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It’s too early to tell But series s could be a great option. If cross Gen sticks around for the next 2 to 3 years due to shortages then ms will have a box that’s under 200 pounds on promo that delivers a good experience for those not bothered about resolution and sometimes hard to spot raytracing.

will have to see how it plays out.

 

[SCB3]

Despite the ridiculous overreaction by mostly those who won't ever buy one or only own one brand, the s is complete fine as is. It will 100% hit its stride at $249 even more so at $199.

It's small, it's fast, it's quiet, and it's a decent 1080p gaming machine. And no it doesn't "ruin next gen".

And we're done here, I've been perfectly fine with mine so far

 

[Blond]

Despite the ridiculous overreaction by mostly those who won't ever buy one or only own one brand, the s is complete fine as is. It will 100% hit its stride at $249 even more so at $199.

It's small, it's fast, it's quiet, and it's a decent 1080p gaming machine. And no it doesn't "ruin next gen".

Some games are already below 1080p, it won’t ruin next-gen but it’ll definitely hinder it. The fact the X1 didn’t have a showcase that matches most mid-gen PS4 exclusives is reason enough to be worried. I fully expect the SS to have switch style ports as opposed to “versions” ala PS5/SX

 

[Shmunter]

Yes, a high baseline for all next gen would have moved the next gen needle far more.

 

[Robb]

I think it's very difficult to tell right now with most games being cross-gen. We'll see how it goes.

But my personal preference would be that the S and X had the same base hardware. I don't own the S though, nor am I going to buy it, so my opinion on this doesn't really matter much.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Yes, a high baseline for all next gen would have moved the next gen needle far more.

How many teraflops would you put in a 1080p machine when your 4k machine has 12?

Arbitrarily putting 6 or 8 tf wouldn't help achieve target price point and would be overkill for 1080p target, since series x is 12.

I think it's a well thought out decision from MS.

 

[Jokerevo]

It'll be the main reason we won't see those 12 flops being maxed out because the disparity of power is too wide. Imagine having an opportunity to make a game for Xsx and then being told it also has to run on the Xsx...

We've already seen proof of optimisation issues because the Xss should be a 1440p machine right? It's not even close.

This is why the quality is going to be so variable, optimisation is a time drain that devs should not have to focus on. I mean look at the Medium. Runs like ass on all machines, even PC. And we were led to believe that scalability is a switch you can just flick. Most devs will not have the time (money) to devote to optimisation and therefore they will choose the simpler option....brute force it at the expense of quality.

 

[Shmunter]

How many teraflops would you put in a 1080p machine when your 4k machine has 12?

Arbitrarily putting 6 or 8 tf wouldn't help achieve target price point and would be overkill for 1080p target, since series x is 12.

I think it's a well thought out decision from MS.

Would not build a 1080p system in 2020. Leave that to pc’s at 300fps. Consoles need to usher in a proper leap. A high tide raises all boats.

 

[Panajev2001a]

XSS should have just not been IMHO. A digital only 512 GB of storage XSX could have been $349-399: it would have been then the same exact specs across both machines and been an easier target for devs, a cheaper machine for players, ready for 4K but also able to downsample for those on 1080p TV’s.

 

[AllyITA]

the target audience of Series S doesn't know/see the difference between 1080p/4K or 30/60fps (children, parents, non tech savvy people), but they do clearly see the difference between 400$ ps5 and 300$ seriesS.

especially considering the market dominance of playstation during the previous generation, microsoft needed to do something drastic, series S and gamepass is their strategy.

 

[THE DUCK]

Some games are already below 1080p, it won’t ruin next-gen but it’ll definitely hinder it. The fact the X1 didn’t have a showcase that matches most mid-gen PS4 exclusives is reason enough to be worried. I fully expect the SS to have switch style ports as opposed to “versions” ala PS5/SX

Doesn't change a single thing, and many ports have already been much more than switch style ports. Doesn't hinder next gen at all, 99% of mutiplatform games are already being made for low end pc stuff, which is far weaker.

 

[ZywyPL]

I think a discless XSX would be a welcome addition to the family, for something like 400-450$, for digital-only guys like me. The XSS is good as it is, maybe except for the drive space, half a gig for a digital-only console in 2021 is so low, but then again, the console's targeted audience plays mostly games that take just ~5-20GB.

 

[longdi]

XSS should have just not been IMHO. A digital only 512 GB of storage XSX could have been $349-399: it would have been then the same exact specs across both machines and been an easier target for devs, a cheaper machine for players, ready for 4K but also able to downsample for those on 1080p TV’s.

in an ideal world the more specs the better,needless to say. however we need to know how much quantity can such a spec be produced and how much loss leader it is and be forced to seek revenue top-up elsewhere...

no point if the digital only edition is like 1/20 of your stock count....

 

[93xfan]

It’s a solid machine. It’s better than the Xbox one x by a fair margin at a lower cost. If you plan to play on 1080p it’s fine. The one down side to me is the hard drive space, I think they should have charged a little bit more to include a 1 tb drive.

Or even 750GB

Oh well

 

[T-Cake]

As a newbie to the Xbox ecosystem, I kind of like the idea that if something should happen to an Xbox I buy, I can still continue to game by buying some kind of Xbox at just £249. That's ridiculously cheap. It could be even cheaper if they bring out the XCloud HDMI device.

 

[BigLee74]

Why should MS match what Sony has done? Their key differentiating factor here is the cost of the system. They WANT it to be significantly cheaper, whilst still providing a next gen system.

It’s absolutely fine where it is, and in the long run will sell LOADS.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Would not build a 1080p system in 2020. Leave that to pc’s at 300fps. Consoles need to usher in a proper leap. A high tide raises all boats.

Just yesterday ign did a poll on YouTube. A lot of people voted.