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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
TheRedRiders
Member
So is this basically PS5 Pro?
Close but i think the Pro will be 54 CU's, other CU's being disabled for yield purposes. Just guesswork honestly, the memory bandwidth does concern me a little, I'm not sure what the odds of the Pro having some sort of Infinity Cache.
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
*sigh* They're all coming out of the woodwork now....
I wonder when we get the next legit news?
I wonder when we get the next legit news?
I thought GDDR6X was exclusive to Nvidia?
Elog
Member
Micron developed them - not an Nvidia exclusive (but it launched with the Nvidia cards AFAIK).
Kusarigama
Member
Posting a tweet from a random person on twitter... It is but meaningless
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
mansoor1980
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
mansoor1980
Gold Member
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Mr.Phoenix
Member
People may not like to hear it. But what this gen has shown me, between the fact that we haven't actually seen many showpiece titles, that cross-gen is still a thing 3 years into the current gen...etc. Is that a PS6 has no business coming before 2030.
So is this basically PS5 Pro?
Pretty much yes. The 7800XT is the full chip of what would also be the 7700XT. The 7700XT is the PS5pro. As with the pro, it would be based on the 7800XT but with 1 WG disabled in each SE. Of which there would be 3 SEs.
TheAmazingSpiderMan
Member
They’re ALL full of shit, him that Serrano, Foxy gamer or whatever his twitter name is.
If we’ve learnt anything from the next gen thread back in 2020 is that they’re all full of it, just regurgitated rumours.
Loxus
Member
I'm patiently waiting for someone to ask Kepler about yields.
Sony would be throwing away so much chips aiming for 60CUs active. Even Microsoft saw having all CUs enabled didn't make sense.
Xbox Series X SoC: Power, Thermal, and Yield Tradeoffs
Both of these configurations enable 12 TFLOPs. Because the frequency of the 28 WGP design is lower, this also enables a lower voltage, combined for an overall power saving of 20% if all 28 WGPs are used.
Of course, a 20% power saving is quite substantial, as it would either enable better performance per watt, or enable higher performance. But the issue is that not enough processors were coming off of the production line with all 28 WGP running at this frequency. The variability of the processors, due to both transistor performance and defects, meant that 28 WGP versions didn’t make sense financially.
Assuming a defect happens in one of the GPU compute units or WGPs, which is a very good chance because the GPU is the biggest part of the processor, by absorbing that defect and disabling that WGP, that SoC can be used in a console and the effective yield is higher.
Sony would be throwing away so much chips aiming for 60CUs active. Even Microsoft saw having all CUs enabled didn't make sense.
Xbox Series X SoC: Power, Thermal, and Yield Tradeoffs
Both of these configurations enable 12 TFLOPs. Because the frequency of the 28 WGP design is lower, this also enables a lower voltage, combined for an overall power saving of 20% if all 28 WGPs are used.
Of course, a 20% power saving is quite substantial, as it would either enable better performance per watt, or enable higher performance. But the issue is that not enough processors were coming off of the production line with all 28 WGP running at this frequency. The variability of the processors, due to both transistor performance and defects, meant that 28 WGP versions didn’t make sense financially.
Assuming a defect happens in one of the GPU compute units or WGPs, which is a very good chance because the GPU is the biggest part of the processor, by absorbing that defect and disabling that WGP, that SoC can be used in a console and the effective yield is higher.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah that Kepler guy seem to be insinuating 60CUs active for a while I guess we'll just have to wait and see what this APU is derived from we definitely don't have the full picture
TheRedRiders
Member
Sony were very fussy about yields in the approach to PS5 launch, it makes sense of course. Losing chips means losing money, a lot.
There's no way they didn't consider this for the Pro, but like you said we don't have the full picture.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sony has been doing yields since the PS3 with the Cell.
Maybe. It might be a stretch but if the Pro is on 4nm and the frequency isn't too high,maybe the die area is small enough to allow Sony to fully enable the who GPU.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Nope... anyway they spin it the PS5pro APU will still be at least a 250mm2+ chip. The current PS5 APU on a 6nmnode is over 260mm2. I don't think going to 4nm (if that is even true) will drop them to sub 200mm2 die size when they are adding a third SE, ikey using relatively bigger CUs in comparison to RDNA2, more cache....etc.
And when it comes to these node shrinks, IO and Mem components are things that just don't shrink as logic does. That's one of the main reasons RDNA3 GPUs went with chiplets.
And lastly, you have to think on a manufacturing scale which is what Sony would be doing. The difference between a 60CU GPU and a 54CU GPu for them could b $50 per chip. How you may ask? Because yields for the perfect chip may be 72%. Meaning that you are losing 28% of all the chips you make on each wafer. Yields on a 54CU imperfect chip could very well be 95%.
Now bear in mind that they are going into contract for these things in the tens of millions.
AMD and Nvidia can afford to use `perfect` chips on certain models because right next to them they always have another model using the imperfect chips too. Eg. 7900XTX is the perfect 96CU chip. The 7900XT is the imperfect 84CU chip.
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On 6nm the RX 7600 is only 204mm vs 236mm for the RX 6600XT and both have 32MGs of infinity cash. Heck, the RX 7900XTX is slightly larger than the 6900 on 5nm, it's 529 vs 520nm.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
| RX 7800 XT | RX 6800 XT | |
|---|---|---|
| Architecture | RDNA 3 | RDNA 2 |
| GPU | Navi 32 | Navi 21 |
| Fab process | TSMC 5+6nm | TSMC 7nm |
| GPU package | MCM | Monolithic |
| Chiplet config | 1x GCD + 4x MCD | – |
| GCD size | ~200mm² | – |
| MCD size | 4x ~37mm² | – |
| Full GPU | ~348mm² | 520 mm² |
| Shader engines | 3 | 4 |
| Shader arrays | 6 | 8 |
| RDNA WGPs | 30 | 36 |
| Compute units | 60 | 72 |
| Stream processors | 3,840 | 4,608 |
| VRAM | 16GB GDDR6 | 16GB GDDR6 |
| Memory bus | 256-bit | 256-bit |
| Memory clock | 19.5 Gbps | 16 Gbps |
| Infinity cache | 128MB | 128MB |
| PCIe interface | Gen 4 | Gen 4 |
| TBP | 260W | 300W |
keep in mind, the 7800xtx is the best representation of what the PS5pro GPU will be. And that GCD doesn't even have a CPU on the die. And unlike RDNA3 GPUs. the IO, mem PHY, cache...etc, is going on that die too in the PS5 and not into an MCD chipset.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Keep in mind those things you suggest that PS5 struggles with are things that are extras. They aren't necessary items. Ray Tracing is a bonus. 120 fps is a bonus. If some games in the future don't feature those two items, things will still be okay.
Perrott
Member
The exact opposite actually, he's suggesting 54 CUs active for PS5 Pro games, with one disabled SE getting them to 36 CUs (PS4 Pro, PS5 compatibility) and two disabled SEs for 18 CUs (PS4 compatibility).
This is literally copypasted from the ignorant prediction made by that fanboy ZubyTech, nothing to see here other than the same old bs making the rounds all across the internet.
Dream-Knife
Banned
So is this basically PS5 Pro?
Yep, PS5 pro will have an APU with the GPU equivalent to a $600 card.
Hype train is running away again.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Not having any Infinity Cache saves a lot of space.
ChiefDada
Member
A $600 card today that will not be mass produced to the scale of PS5 Pro. And I guess we're also pretending that GPU retail prices are totally normal these days. I hate to break it to you but a PS5 Pro with superior API support and RT hardware well beyond 7800xt will more often than not come out ahead in head to head comparisons. Why does this trigger you so much?
Dream-Knife
Banned
I guess we will see.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Just some common sense here. If a pro does exist, it having 54/60CU is literally the safest prediction that can be made. And that is not even the most far-fetched thing when you consider a XSX released n 2020 has 52/56CU.
As for clocks, we saw the PS5 clock a 36CU GPU to over 2.2Ghz on a 7nm process. Even settling for a min 10% clock boost on a 4/5nm process takes the minimumPS5pro clocks to 2.4GHz.
Honestly, this is all actually the most conservative speculations I have ever seen with regard to new console hardware. Ad its all based on common sense.
Oh, and I hate to be the one that breaks it to you...that $600 GPU? Probably doesn't cost them anything more than $250 to make.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Of course, but I don't see a $600 console with a $300 APU being a thing.
Granted that will be at the end of RDNA3s life, but still.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
You are still not getting it. When I said that GPU cost them $300...I was not just talking about the Chip. The chip, cooing, RAM, PCB, fans, packaging, shipping....all in. $300`ish. The retailer adds their margin and AMD adds its margins, thats how we end up at $600`ish. Then scalpers, that's how we end up at $900ish.
When looking at consoles, then look at the APU and its size (not what its equivalent PC GPU cost). If the PS5pro APu comes in at 300-350mm2? Then that APU will not be costing Sony anything more than $110-$130 max. Eg, The 6700xt, the GPU the PS5 was based on, had an MSRP of $500. And yet, that GPU was in a $399 console. With more RAM, a bigger bus, an 800GB SDD, a controller, and an 8 core CPU to boot.
AS I always say in things like these...its Nvidias fault, Nvidia has got you all messed up paying for GPUs in kidneys completely losing sight of what these things really cost to make.
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Sethbacca
Member
Even if the margins aren't great, being able to claim the power crown and the best looking and performing titles especially if MS doesn't have a mid gen refresh is an absolute monster marketing point.
TheRedRiders
Member
MLiD is confident the Pro APU will be using Zen 4, not that his credibility means much but I have the same hunch. If the Pro is targeting 2x in RT performance, it will need a substantial improvement in CPU performance. The IPC and clock gains over Zen 2 are huge so it should give us more consistency in 60 and 120 FPS modes.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Video? I watched one yesterday with the developer Bryan something is that the same one?
daninthemix
Member
Cool. How long before people are dissatisfied with that and clammering for PS6? I give it five months.
Caio
Member
Just imagine if these will be the specs for PS5 PRO
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I still can't see how a massive CPU upgrade beyond a clock increase of the existing Zen 2 is something any dev wants? And didn't Cerny argue that PS4 had very sensitive timing issues that meant not changing the Jaguar cores even though X86?
Surely the same issue would apply/be argued here?
I'm still to be convinced a mid-gen PS5 Pro will, or needs to be, more than a GPU upgrade with better RT and more advanced features similar to PS4 Pro.
Surely the same issue would apply/be argued here?
I'm still to be convinced a mid-gen PS5 Pro will, or needs to be, more than a GPU upgrade with better RT and more advanced features similar to PS4 Pro.
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MisterXDTV
Member
I'm fairly confident it will be a 54 CUs GPU...
It has to be a multiple of 18 as PS5 and PS4 Pro have 36 CU and the original PS4 has 18.
And we all know that 72 is not happening
They will simply disable 18 (or 36) CUs in backwards compatibility mode.....
It has to be a multiple of 18 as PS5 and PS4 Pro have 36 CU and the original PS4 has 18.
And we all know that 72 is not happening
They will simply disable 18 (or 36) CUs in backwards compatibility mode.....
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Fair enough, keeping low expectations is smart but seriously what is the rationale for thinking 72 is some incredulous figure? The ps4 pro was a 2.2x increase in compute capacity and it was a conservative upgrade compared to the one x, ps4 pro is on 4nm and can be sold at a premium price so why exactly are we acting like 72cus is some titan class gpu spec.
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MisterXDTV
Member
Because Henderson already told us that the full chip has 60 CUs (Like AMD's Navi 32 that is launching next month)
They should disable 6 for yields = 54
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
Thinking about it (among many things about PS5 Pro rumours) how likely is N4P when the rumours also say the devkits are to be going out in November?
I mean even the still to launch RX 7800 series is on N6 and we know the lead time from chip tape out to launch is at least many months to a year+. If the devkits are out in November with almost certainly a final spec APU then is N4P likely?
I mean even the still to launch RX 7800 series is on N6 and we know the lead time from chip tape out to launch is at least many months to a year+. If the devkits are out in November with almost certainly a final spec APU then is N4P likely?
MikeM
Member
Anyone else hoping the PS5 Pro looks like the PS5 dev kit?
MikeM
Member
If true, i’ll be for sure day 1. More power every three years is something I will gladly pay for.
Perrott
Member
Can't the devkits be set out on a different node than the final retail product? Or the November wave of devkits not being the final devkits? I believe the final devkits for the PS4 Pro were sent out in the spring, just six months ahead of the console launch in November.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't know about all the N4/N5 or N6 stuff. But I know the dev kit being on N6 for instance doesn't mean the console cant be on N4. Or that a later revision of the dev kits with N4 would go out eventually.
Eg... Current PS5 is on N6, I am pretty certain dev kits are still in N7. And I don't know where you got the to a year+ for tape out. We are also in Aug of 2023, if this thing is due out say around this time next year, and its been in development since 2021, and based on tech that is already on the market now, and still has at least 6 months before it goes into production. I think its safe to say they are still way ahead of the curve.
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Mid-gen upgrades were never what any Dev wanted to begin with so :/
But bigger CPU still makes it easier to add more eye-candy (or high-framerate modes) so if you have to do a Pro machine - might as well.
Obviously that had been solved with the PS5 launch (or found it a non-issue).
But Pro also upgraded the CPU.
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Negotiator101
Member
This PS5 Pro if these rumours are true is not exactly setting the world alight. I'm wondering given it looks unlikely Microsoft are doing a Pro version that they may go for next-gen system earlier than expected, much like the 360 situation?