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Digital Foundry about XSX teraflops advantage : It's kinda all blowing up in the face of Xbox Series X
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Let's not forget the RDNA 2 clock speed and the over (up to) 20gb/s I/O that gives that super fast data streaming....According to these number it is:
AMD Xbox Series X GPU Specs
AMD Scarlett, 1825 MHz, 3328 Cores, 208 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 320 bitwww.techpowerup.com
AMD Playstation 5 GPU Specs
AMD Oberon, 2233 MHz, 2304 Cores, 144 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit
zeldaring
Banned
No. remember many people buy these consoles for third party games. Having the competition run games much better will hurt sales. just look at 360 vs ps3 a huge reason, 360 was able to compete was cause most mutiplatform games ran better and the biggest Seller was COD
//DEVIL//
Member
And look at the Xbox one X getting destroyed in sales compared to ps4 pro.
It's not about third party games. It's about the first party output as well.
If you have one space in your living room for one console. Or you don't want to invest in 2 systems for whatever financial or just as I said no space or no time.
Which one you will go with ? The most powerful console or the one that has the games you want the most ?
Who cares if X game look slightly better texture in one system over the other. the experience won't be degraded and you won't lose sleep over it. But you will be missing if you picked a system that is powerful but lack in games ( like you suggested )
zeldaring
Banned
Can't really compare a late generation upgrade to new consoles though. By the time xbone x came ps4 already won the generation and momentum was not slowing down. Many things go into console sales, and it's just not games. look at wiiu for example look at what those same games did for switch.
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John Wick
Member
Not enough Va va voom
Killjoy-NL
Member
Was it smart though? Because afaik they went with a standard design, while Mark Cerny took a completely different approach and minimized bottlenecks.
Wouldn't make MS dumb, but it would make Cerny's design genius.
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LiquidJensen
Banned
Digital Foundry are so full of shit. These clowns contradict themselves every other week.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Misguided, there is as much debate about performance differences of MS/windows /Xbox vs Linux overheads and that's not even entering into developer experience or skillsets or tools etc.
It's a specific metric for a specific comparison not a whole system or game release/development.
It's a specific metric for a specific comparison not a whole system or game release/development.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
You guys have completely lost the grasp on efficient. You're making up things to try and dispute my comments which are factually correct. It's science. So your comments fail.
Energy in providing energy out is efficiency.
You have two athletes on a running machine. One requires more fuel...food to be pumped into them to reach their goal at the same time. To reach the same performance they are in a larger box with the running machine that takes up more space and requires considerably more energy to be put in to put energy out.
The other is in a smaller box and requires less food and energy in to reach their performance level. On the right days and conditions this athlete can perform up to 20 percent faster on that same efficiency.
Which is more efficient. Energy efficient. Power efficient?
It's a fact and I'm not going to argue about a completely different console launching 3 years later.
I get it, no one here can give micorosft their props but the series x, when all things are taken into account is a brilliantly designed console imo.
Vox Machina
Banned
They matter on PC!
nowhat
Member
What's Linux got to do with this? PS4/PS5 OS is based on FreeBSD.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Sorry Unix-like FreeBSD. The point remains, big perf differences there.
Silent Viper
Banned
Terraflops are important. SX issue is not terraflops. Its split memory architecture design and forced Parity with S.
Coliation, PG,Ninja theory and few selected 3rd party devs only take true advantage of SX power. Rest just focus on PS5 as lead platform due to bigger install base.
Coliation, PG,Ninja theory and few selected 3rd party devs only take true advantage of SX power. Rest just focus on PS5 as lead platform due to bigger install base.
Team Andromeda
Member
Halo Infinite is still my fav game of this generation depressingly enough and I think it looks more than good enough on my Series X and is after all a cross-gen game. 'Apparently' John Litterman did a tweet that Series console has won 60% of the comparisons, but many (including me) with just see how lame the Series X is at games like Ghost Wire and Hogs and saying Hogwarts isn't bad on the Series X, is like saying Bayonetta isn't that bad on the PS3. I remember an interview with Platinum who said that after what happened (not helped by being outsourced) The likes of Vanquish would lead on the PS3 and gone were the issues.
Starfield isn't going to make a case of these graphics can only be done on the Series X since its going for scale, it can more than make a case for this game can only be done on the current line of consoles. I waiting until Forza and Hellbalde 2 to really see what the Series X can do (Hopefully) But to me, it isn't all about graphics.
If you want competition MS, then it isn't just about the number of studios, the number of games. You have to be competitive with SONY on PR and Price. XBox PR is utter crap and at the time of SONY cutting its price (ok it was higher to begin with) XBox is raising there's, it's a terrible look. Ok, MS may not be able to cut the price of the Series X due the chipset, but the Series S?. Really MS should counter with a big price drop for the Series S.
XBox PR is like that for SEGA America in the Saturn days, utter sh8t
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Kataploom
Gold Member
In GPU bound scenarios Xbox Series X performs better than ps5 as it should and I'm CPU bound scenarios (like 120 fps modes) it's otherwise due to ps5 CPU being free from those tasks, I don't see the "controversy" here.
As usual GAF with that weird hate towards Xbox. Some should go get away from internet for a moment.
As usual GAF with that weird hate towards Xbox. Some should go get away from internet for a moment.
The Pleasure
Gold Member
The reason people hate xbox is because Microsoft introduced paying for everything like a service. I'm so happy that online is paid for when ps2/ps3 were free. I'm so glad that expansion packs turned into dlc. I'm also happy that they introduced microtransactions and horse armor.
Barakov
Gold Member
Not really. They introduced a lot of bad stuff(paid online, nickle and diming dlc etc.) so any hate they get is pretty deserved.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Oh, poor Sony and Nintendo just wanted to do the best for the gamers but bad MS obligated then to charge for stuff and earn more money.
Damn if only one could refuse to pay for a completely optional service...
Team Andromeda
Member
Overlooking that's pathetic, it;s also wrong too. SEGA looked to charge for Online gaming and to use the Square PS2 service in Japan you had to pay.
Most would happily pay for LIVE because it was so much better than the crap you go on the PS2 OG XBox was so much better for Online gaming. To SONY's credit, they did use dedicated servers on the PS3, which is something MS really should have done on the 360
The main reason many don't like MS on here... is because they're SONY fans. It's basic football (soccer) mentality Hate or dislike your rivals. There's nothing wong in it, but just be honest
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The Pleasure
Gold Member
You talking Sega. Net? Because that was an actual isp so you could use the internet for that.
You mean ff11? That was an mmorpg so I'm assuming that was always pay to play. Or was there another service that square had?
Xbox online was still essentially heat.net for pc except heat was cheaper. Same for any multitude of pc games way back when which were free. But my memory eludes me as it's been forever since i used heat.net or Dwango or Duke. Net
How would a once free ability to play online becoming paid be an 'optional service'? That's not optional.
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Team Andromeda
Member
No, not just SEGA Net. Towards the end of the DC SEGA looked to charge you a monthly fee to play the Sports games, but way before that to play Saturn games over the net link in Japan users had to buy a card to be placed in the Netlink to play games over the phone and I'm not on about FF11. Square has its own dictated Online service for the PS2 (Japan Only) and it cost.
Overlooking all that mind, was just how terrible Online gaming was on the PS2 compared to the OG XBox.
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ArcaneNLSC
Member
Hero of Spielberg
Member
Another day another hysterical hate fuelled anti Xbox wank thread
PaintTinJr
Member
You are simplifying by comparing low effort PC ports that don't even achieve parity with AMD PC hardware with the same "teraflops".
The capabilities of the two consoles to push gaming forward are not equal, and that was very apparent when we got the first set of technical measurements off the first UE5 presentation. When another device can run a heavy nanite pass as quick and efficiently as the PS5 then your two runners analogy might apply, but the PS5 has hardware capabilities that the XsX doesn't and are not a clockspeed or CU count difference, while using similar amounts of power as the XsX.
If you haven't tried it, yet I seriously recommend trying the PSVR2 call of the mountain and then ask yourself if you honestly think the XsX could stream that geometry and textures in time to deliver that experience even using more power than PS5. I am sure it can't. For me it was like being 10years old and trying a Sega sit-in arcade machine for the first time, all over again and appreciating the gulf between arcade solutions and home gaming.
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It isn't, they've talked about this topic before.
In any case we know directly from Microsoft that it isn't about teraflops. What matters is how many transistors and uncompressed pixels you have.
Lysandros
Member
PS5 does have 512 MB of additional DRAM for its SSD, it is also naturally used for OS operations. So technically 16.5 GB of total memory on board.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Dude. The series x is running all legit unreal engine 5 games the same as the ps5. Fortnite at higher resolutions too.
Talk to me about reality of software in our hands and not hypertheticals and exclusive titles....call of the mountain, what?
MasterCornholio
Member
Maybe stop expecting so much out of the Series X is my recommendation.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Unless they have a PC too. In that case they will see the thing as another cheap piece of crap that they bought just to play exclusives a bit early. FF the PS5 is no different from the PS4 or 3 or whatever. It is comodity HW that is better than the last gen but not revolutionary by any stretch of the imagination.They were pushing it so hard and when it didn't materialize they blamed the "tools" and dev kits
PakiChilli
Banned
Sorry but what happened?
Everyone seems a bit worked up.
Are games running worse on Series X?
Everyone seems a bit worked up.
Are games running worse on Series X?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Exactly. These posters like
PaintTinJr
must expect the world from the xbox for a measly 1.8 tf power difference or something?They are so close, and perform as expected now.
MasterCornholio
Member
Exactly. These posters like
They are so close, and perform as expected now.
Maybe even less depending on how you look at it. The two are so close that it doesn't matter to most people.
Lysandros
Member
There is absolutely not such an established fact or general rule. PS5 can well outperform XSX in GPU bound scenarios since it has as many hardware advantages on that front. Notably in (pixel) fill rate, local bandwidth and geometry bound scenarios PS5 should be expected to outperform XSX. There are plentiful of cases where PS5 has even the resolution advantage. We should stop acting as if XSX GPU is all around superior to PS5's at some point, this is a plain faulty assumption.
And as far as I'm concerned i have nothing bad to say about XSX. It has undeniable advantages such as power consumption and form factor and it's certainly competitive with PS5 in performance front.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
Fuck him.
PaintTinJr
Member
We are talking about hardware, and in that regard the efficiency of true next-gen rendering techniques with sub-pixel geometry density like nanite, both from the first info and the info by Microsoft's developer's puts PS5 at 2-4x faster at nanite. If the workload was just like nanite, the power use (efficiency) of {PS5's would then finish in half or a quarter of the time using that amount of relative power too.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Prove it to me in released software.
AngelMuffin
Member
Remember that one time Sony used a split Ram configuration in the PS3?
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
I really did try to talk to you people
If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?
They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...www.neogaf.com
Is the Console GPU FLOPs era going the way of the Bit era? I for one welcome our new GB/s marketing overlord
Bits was so important in marketing until we reached 32-bits , for example Sony didn't make a big deal about PS1 being 32-bit even though that was the marking thing that was big in the 80's & 90's but it was probably the CDs that gave PS1 the marketing edge. Atari & Nintendo used 64 in their...
Amen to that.
I said ps5 pro "is" around 22-23tf in a sense that it performance like a machine that has a 22-23tf gpu, not that the actual count is 22-23tf, in the same way that a 10.28 tf machine (ps5) performances like a 12tf (XSX) or even better
Stop using the silly Tflops metrics once and for all!!
AngelMuffin
Member
Hellblazer later sounds awesome!
PaintTinJr
Member
That's why I recommended you go try Horizon: Call of the Mountain on PSVR2 to be blown away by the in headset visuals with the texture quality, geometry and visual fx- even if you don't like the VR experience.
I thought you might of responded directly to my point about the revisions. Do you dispute the logic that the PS5 revisions will use the least power, have the lowest BoM and have the smallest volume? While matching up on gaming and on ambient noise at full load?
As an Xcloud GPU unit for running two XsS GPU sessions per console (with FSR added at the client) the XsX design makes a lot of sense IMO, but as a competitor to PS5 with the BoM Microsoft will have for it, it doesn't look like it's headline TF number is complimented by the design decisions they made.
AngelMuffin
Member
The whole T-flop thing reminds me of the bit wars of yesteryear. Mostly just a marketing tool.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
So DF is doing a self own? Acting like they weren’t pushing the lie. You mean PS5 having twice the I/O throughput is an important factor?!?!? Who would have thought?!?!
SportsFan581
Member
I don't believe the PS5 is particularly special, no. The primary bottleneck for both systems is the CPU design.
The belief that the PS5 is performing better than its specs is just a case of many not understanding how similar these two GPUs are to each other. They try to compare to PC parts with a similar TF difference, but in the PC world all aspects of the GPU typically move upward with each improvement. On paper both of these console GPUs have distinct statistical advantages, the fact they perform similarly is the expected result for them.
The reality is that MS created the smaller more efficient system and hit their performance target. Sony did likely create the cheaper to produce system which from a business perspective is a big win for them.
Lysandros
Member
I didn't know about this. Can i have a link for it? Speaking of UE5 we certainly need more benchmarks. I am really curious about why credible outlets didn't make a comparison analysis on games like Layers of Fear using this engine, resolution/FPS findings could be useful.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I love VR, but we can not compare a game like call of the mountain vs the Xbox here. we are going to need actual games on both and for Unreal engine 5 we currently have Remnant 2 and Fortnite. They are more or less identical with a resolution advantage to xbox in fortnite.