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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Increasingly polished games with higher production values have been coming out of China in recent years, and this increase in quality has sparked discussion amongst Japanese game developers. Some industry professionals think that such Chinese games are gradually becoming superior to Japanese titles in certain respects, such as animation. They suggest that issues affecting Japanese game development (like lower production budgets and animator shortages) may be hindering Japanese titles’ competitiveness.

Please note that this article is predominantly about both countries’ mobile/gacha game scenes.

This whole discussion was triggered by a viral clip of the upcoming base-building RPG Arknights: Endfield. Developed by Shanghai-based game company Hypergryph, the 3D open-world gacha game will be joining the ranks of Genshin Impact, Wuthering Waves and Zenless Zone Zero with its beautiful anime graphics and bouncy animation.

The clip in question (below), which has been viewed over 6.9 million times at the time of writing, showcases the moveset of Yvonne, one of the characters appearing in Arknights: Endfield. Japanese users expressed astonishment at the fluidity of the animation, especially the way it conveys the character’s personality and the overall attention to detail.

Moreover, comparisons were not only made by gamers, but by industry professionals too. Alwei, representative of Indie-Us Games, a Japanese company specializing in Unreal Engine development, made the following comment:

“When I look at this, I feel like the biggest difference between recent Chinese games and domestic (Japanese) games doesn’t lie in the graphics, but in the animation. And it’s not just the way the characters move – it’s the physics, the camera work, and the way it guides the viewer’s line of sight. Every aspect of the animation is far superior to that of domestic games.”

In the continuation of his thread, Alwei goes on to highlight some legitimate obstacles that make it difficult for Japanese developers to step up their game, such as the worsening shortage of animators. According to the developer, skilled animators are such a rare resource in the Japanese industry that it’s not just companies fighting over them, but different departments within companies grappling to get animators on their projects.

Another issue is the pressure to minimize production costs. The need to keep animation costs as low as possible means that Japanese developers must resort to using generic motions and motion capture. Reflecting on these circumstances, Alwei comments, “It remains to be seen to what extent Japanese games will be able to compete, considering that China will continue to produce highly polished animation at this level.”

A Japanese animator working in the game industry echoed these sentiments, commenting, “This is something I’ve felt strongly about in recent years.” They emphasize that it’s not just a matter of Chinese games having a bigger budget than Japanese games, but about how this budget is allocated too. “I think that in Japan, people tend to place more importance on looks, as it’s an easy way to boost the appeal of the game.” The artist notes that even with the same budget available, it would be extremely difficult to gather enough skilled animators to produce such large volumes of elaborate animations in Japan.

In response to this exchange, Japanese illustrator and animator Shiba_29, who has experience working with Chinese game companies, offered insight into how the situation looks from the other side. “If you’ve been involved in Chinese game projects, you’ll know that they use 10x more money and manpower than Japan – the scale is incomparable. If you knew the actual numbers, you’d be astonished. It’s not the kind of budget that can be recovered with a couple of hundred of million (yen) in launch day revenue.”

Shiba_29 notes that the sheer scale of investment they’ve witnessed in Chinese game development “would be impossible to pull off on a Japanese project.” On a separate note, they mention that in their experience, the development environment in China is a lot more “free-spirited” than in Japan. Creators come up with “crazy” on-the-spot ideas that “would never get approved in Japan,” which, in the animator’s opinion, likely contributes to their work being more expressive.

“If you’ve worked on a Chinese game, you’ll know production scale is on a whole other level” Japanese devs discuss growing quality of Chinese games - AUTOMATON WEST

Japanese game developers discuss growing quality of Chinese mobile and gacha games and how they compare to domestic games.

automaton-media.com

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Really impressed with what I’m seeing coming out of China, but they have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Capcom, Sega/Atlus, FromSoftware etc

I’m assuming Japanese anime is really big in China as so much media being produced in the country copies/emulates the aesthetic.

 

[March Climber]

Really impressed with what I’m seeing coming out of Japan

But they have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Capcom, Sega/Atlus, FromSeoftware etc

Right now I feel they are operating on two different scales/levels.

Animation-wise, Chinese studios are hitting their mark extremely well and some studios are arguably better than the JP teams. However, the derivative nature of their games leaves me feeling like they need better storytellers, lore writers, world builders, and more unique visions. There have been too many times where I will see a game that is just...."Famous I.P. copy, but instead with _____" and I know everyone here can name quite a few games from China that feel that way, and they feel that way very blatantly.

Even if there was genuine inspiration behind the new title, it gives off the feeling of a copy+paste money grab and they need to find a way past those optics.

I honestly feel the best possible scenario (if it were possible) would be for companies like Bandai Namco to potentially utilize or combine talent with Chinese devs for their licensed anime B games. Imagine the animation in the OP's link, but for an extremely popular licensed anime I.P. Anime fans dream of moments like that, but instead they are fed scraps of musou-likes and arena fighting games with animations and graphics that feel like they came out of an early gen PS3 game, meanwhile PS6 is around the corner.

 

[Calverz]

Interesting thread title so click to have a look. First image is anime…

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I honestly feel the best possible scenario (if it were possible) would be for companies like Bandai Namco to potentially utilize or combine talent with Chinese devs for their licensed anime B games. Imagine the animation in the OP's link, but for an extremely popular licensed anime I.P. Anime fans dream of moments like that, but instead they are fed scraps of musou-likes and arena fighting games with animations and graphics that feel like they came out of an early gen PS3 game, meanwhile PS6 is around the corner.

Plausible, many assets for Japanese games are now created in India.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Really impressed with what I’m seeing coming out of China, but they have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Capcom, Sega/Atlus, FromSoftware etc

I’m assuming Japanese anime is really big in China as so much media being produced in the country copies/emulates the aesthetic.

So the article is mostly about gacha/mobile games where Chinese and Koreans titles have been dominating the domestic Japanese market for several years now. The only newish IP that can compete with them is Uma Musume. There's also FGO (Sony Music Japan/Aniplex/Type Moon) and Granblue Fantasy (Cygames) but these are older gacha games released years ago which are getting regular updates and still do very well.

Here’s a snapshot from a couple of days ago with the top apps in the JP Google Play Store and App Store.The top ranked app is a Korean gacha game, while the 2nd and 3rd on the GP Store are taken by Chinese games. The 5th, 6th and 10th spots are also held by CN gachas.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I will support China.

And it's good that it has grown a lot.

 

[Lorianus]

I hope japanese developers like Falcom, Compile Heart and Furyu continue to make games that they want to make without chasing the "western AAA philosophy", even if their games can be considered as full price AA games at best, what they lack in graphics and presentation they make up with fun and soul.

 

[RoadHazard]

Plausible, many assets for Japanese games are now created in India.

Doesn't Japan kinda hate China though?

 

[od-chan]

That clip is indeed pretty awesome. I'll definitely check that game out.

And yeah, China is going to be huge and I'm absolutely looking forward to it. Mihoyo is already based as fuck. Were they to make a single player game, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to knock everything else out of the park. Obviously they won't, because they make much better money with Gacha, but there's enough talent to go around and I just love that the chinese are just as degenerate (maybe even more so) than the japanese/myself. Especially since the japanese started to try to appease to western sensibilites more and more in the last decade or so, which just sucks.

It's going to be interesting how Japan will fare in this in, idk, 10 years time. I do think the CCP is holding chinese devs back in some ways (and majorly pushing them in others), so it's gonna be interesting all around.

Also, I love how the japanese influence is still strong enough so that the chinese pay huge attention to a quality japanese dub. Again, it'll be interesting to see how that might change down the line. I'm a huge sucker for japanese voice acting, and the japanese language is objecitvely more beautiful than the heinous chinese one, but I already made my peace with having to learn to appreciate it (and I genuinely kinda start to).

 

[cormack12]

I think to gain credibility they need to start making more games like Wukong. Not that they need to - because the market they are aimed at is substantial anyway - but in terms of becoming staples in the West.

If Japan feels that this is their corner of the market then yeah they are probably right to be concerned.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

It's going to be interesting how Japan will fare in this in, idk, 10 years time.

Quite healthy I imagine.

The likes of Nintendo, Capcom, Sega/Atlus and FromSoftware just keep getting better and better while the likes of EA, Ubisoft and Bethesda have been dragging their reputations through the mud for the past 5 years or so.

A lot of the good will that the big American companies built up during the Xbox 360 era is now being destroyed where as Japanese companies are increasingly gaining respect.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Gonna be honest, I was in awe after finishing Wukong the other day, the friggin' cutscene quality/framing/direction, motion capture, animations AND soundtrack literally rival most of the AAA Western/Japanese releases, I don't know how they did it but they did - and this is the 1st game/try from an unknown company ffs...
Phantom Blade 0 is the next one that's gonna rock our socks off and I'm all for it.

When a Monkey game® is more epic and as well directed (if not better) than something like GOW Ragnarok using only 1/3 of the budget you know that as a dev/company you have to start worrying...

 

[SimTourist]

Doesn't Japan kinda hate China though?

Japan hates everyone

 

[genesisblock]

It's only a matter of time before China will eventually make a GTA production level game which will most likely blow R* out of the water.

 

[AzekZero]

I hope this boom in the Chinese vg industry doesn't get cut short by short-sighted moves from those at the top of the industry.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Gonna be honest, I was in awe after finishing Wukong the other day, the friggin' cutscene quality/framing/direction, motion capture, animations AND soundtrack literally rival most of the AAA Western/Japanese releases, I don't know how they did it but they did - and this is the 1st game/try from an unknown company ffs...
Phantom Blade 0 is the next one that's gonna rock our socks off and I'm all for it.

When a Monkey game® is more epic and as well directed (if not better) than something like GOW Ragnarok using only 1/3 of the budget you know that as a dev/company you have to start worrying...

Yeah, there's a lot of game dev talent in the Chinese scene, and some of them are getting tired of working in the 'gacha mines.' Due to Wukong's immense success in the domestic market, you'll see more and more investment in singleplayer games coming from China. It's a win-win for both devs and gamers.

 

[Wildebeest]

China is churning out graduates as a high pace, but I don't think they will ever make a GTA because they are not as obsessed with US films and TV culture as British people were in the 90s. You are just going to get loads of underage anime girls and guan yu shit.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I hope this boom in the Chinese vg industry doesn't get cut short by short-sighted moves from those at the top of the industry.

There’s serious demographic issues that will affect their economy by the 2030s.

Japan got rich before it got old, China will very likely end up missing that mark.

 

[Hypereides]

[...]
Shiba_29 notes that the sheer scale of investment they’ve witnessed in Chinese game development “would be impossible to pull off on a Japanese project.” On a separate note, they mention that in their experience, the development environment in China is a lot more “free-spirited” than in Japan. Creators come up with “crazy” on-the-spot ideas that “would never get approved in Japan,” which, in the animator’s opinion, likely contributes to their work being more expressive.
[...]

Japan should really go back and embrace the quirkiness they were once known for in the mid 90's to the 00's. Their creativity really hit a high note back then.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Arknights Endfield looks incredible, the biggest JRPG in a while

Music, animations, graphics.... overall production values are top-notch. We can't be surprised by a country of 1300 million people having serious talent and resources to pull off games of a bigger scope than smaller countries, regardless of gaming tradition.

I have said it before, triggering a few bad reactions, that Mihoyo has elevated the standards of the mobile industry since Honkai Impact 3rd, encouraging other companies to go AAA in a space where before there were only crappy games. Now they are more technically advanced than their retail counterparts.

There's a generational leap when we go from Genshin to Wuthering Waves and then, Arknights. The same with Infinity Nikki, which looks better than anything other traditional companies have ever produced. There's so much talent and money put to good use in that one.

 

[Felessan]

Really impressed with what I’m seeing coming out of China, but they have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Capcom, Sega/Atlus, FromSoftware etc

I’m assuming Japanese anime is really big in China as so much media being produced in the country copies/emulates the aesthetic.

China has their own anime.
Actually the preferences difference is what drive gap in animations.
China produces a lot of donghua (3d anime) with a spectacular quality (very expensive), so they have huge ton of 3d artists and animators.
And Japan stuck with 2d.

 

[Z O N E]

The fact that Black Myth Wukong is the first AAA game from the Developers should embarrass western devs.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Cars, ai, games. China is on fire.

 

[Impotaku]

Doesn't Japan kinda hate China though?

It’s the other way around, plenty of vids online of Chinese teaching their kids to stomp on a Japanese flag to get a treat. Indoctrinate the next gen of mindless drones.

 

[Dr Cowley]

 

[FreeY$L]

Japan got lazy and complacent, they lost their shit in the 2010s seeing COD numbers

 

[killatopak]

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Japan got lazy and complacent, they lost their shit in the 2010s seeing COD numbers

Japan is the only region churning out AAA games with quality these days.

Maybe you’re still living in the 2010s and the collapse in quality of American AAA hasn’t dawned on you yet.

 

[Trilobit]

The fact that Black Myth Wukong is the first AAA game from the Developers should embarrass western devs.

Chinese developers are so lazy. They just take the face scan and don't even make the chin 5 times bigger on female characters.

 

[NahaNago]

Doesn't Japan kinda hate China though?

You got it backwards. Chinese hates Japan.

I've always figured that the reason these Chinese games grew to another level is because they could hire a lot of developers since they were probably paying less.

The focus on 2d animation for Japan does make sense as to why they would be weaker on the 3d animation versus China.

 

[Guilty_AI]

It's only a matter of time before China will eventually make a GTA production level game which will most likely blow R* out of the water.

Yes its gacha if you're wondering.

In fact that is one of the main points to be considered in this thread, gacha industry is ridiculously profitable. This is why they can spend so much money in these games.

 

[hyperbertha]

Right now I feel they are operating on two different scales/levels.

Animation-wise, Chinese studios are hitting their mark extremely well and some studios are arguably better than the JP teams. However, the derivative nature of their games leaves me feeling like they need better storytellers, lore writers, world builders, and more unique visions. There have been too many times where I will see a game that is just...."Famous I.P. copy, but instead with _____" and I know everyone here can name quite a few games from China that feel that way, and they feel that way very blatantly.

Even if there was genuine inspiration behind the new title, it gives off the feeling of a copy+paste money grab and they need to find a way past those optics.

I honestly feel the best possible scenario (if it were possible) would be for companies like Bandai Namco to potentially utilize or combine talent with Chinese devs for their licensed anime B games. Imagine the animation in the OP's link, but for an extremely popular licensed anime I.P. Anime fans dream of moments like that, but instead they are fed scraps of musou-likes and arena fighting games with animations and graphics that feel like they came out of an early gen PS3 game, meanwhile PS6 is around the corner.

Chinese creativity is severely limited by ccp restrictions. Don't expect anything out of china that's not based on some folklore-local myth- history.

 

[Generic]

Most chinese games are ruined by gatcha.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Most chinese games are ruined by gatcha.

Those games wouldn't be possible without gacha monetization.

It's fantasy economics to say that games like Genshin or Infinity Nikki could be sold at retail price with those production values. There's no market for that.

Right now I feel they are operating on two different scales/levels.

Animation-wise, Chinese studios are hitting their mark extremely well and some studios are arguably better than the JP teams. However, the derivative nature of their games leaves me feeling like they need better storytellers, lore writers, world builders, and more unique visions. There have been too many times where I will see a game that is just...."Famous I.P. copy, but instead with _____" and I know everyone here can name quite a few games from China that feel that way, and they feel that way very blatantly.

Even if there was genuine inspiration behind the new title, it gives off the feeling of a copy+paste money grab and they need to find a way past those optics.

I

There are a few misconceptions here. Lore and worldbuilding is AMAZING in good Chinese games. In fact, that's one of the key success factor for any gacha game. It's the storytelling that fails (too much exposition and text walls, which is also a JRPG flaw).

As for the "copying", this is a thing from the past unless your idea of copying is so broad that can be applied to everyone nowadays. The infamous "genshin is a Zelda clone" is a Pikmin argument that proves itself wrong as soon as you start the game. The game loop is completely different, and it's not even the same genre. Going by the same argument, Astrobot would be a Mario clone or TLOU copies The Walking Dead. Nonsense.

If anything, the new games are borrowing Mihoyo template (too much for my taste) just like every western open world game borrows from Ubisoft. Is Ghost of Tsushima a copy, too?

 

[Felessan]

If anything, the new games are borrowing Mihoyo template (too much for my taste) just like every western open world game borrows from Ubisoft. Is Ghost of Tsushima a copy, too?

Only WuWa did that extensively and I dropped it the moment I learned they implemented country shit instead of staying in wuxia theme
ToF is different, Nikki is different, GFL2 is different, upcoming NtE, Aknights, Ananta too doesn't really looks like Mihoyo games.
It's a best part of gacha games - they try to differentiate themselves.

 

[Magister]

There are a few misconceptions here. Lore and worldbuilding is AMAZING in good Chinese games. In fact, that's one of the key success factor for any gacha game. It's the storytelling that fails (too much exposition and text walls, which is also a JRPG flaw).

Zenless Zone Zero has a nonsensical story. Also, too much text. Much more text than in a JRPG and the pacing sucks. I can read mountains of texts in Persona games because their writing is superior to all Chinese gacha games. I unistalled Honkai Star Rail after I spent an entire day doing boringly written sidequests.

Chinese gacha flaws:
-Poorly written. Often nonsensical stories. I don't know if the translation is at fault.
-Slot machine simulator.
-You have to pay currency to level up, wtf?
-Then you use different currency to level up dozens of passive skills, abilities and it becomes confusing.
-They are primarily phone games. Don't you guys have phones?
-Too much filler text.

Chinese gacha pros:
-Some designs are good.
-The graphics.
-Gameplay sometimes.

Yes, as you can see I'm not a huge fan of gacha games. I always drop them and I have shit luck when it comes to pulls.

 

[Generic]

Those games wouldn't be possible without gacha monetization.

It's fantasy economics to say that games like Genshin or Infinity Nikki could be sold at retail price with those production values. There's no market for that.

f2p games with battle passes and cosmetics have been a thing for years. It would be perfect for Infinity Nikki but chinese devs refuse this kind of monetization on purpose.

 

[Felessan]

Zenless Zone Zero has a nonsensical story.

It's matter of preferences
For me story is just fine, a quite typical city adventure

 

[StereoVsn]

There’s serious demographic issues that will affect their economy by the 2030s.

Japan got rich before it got old, China will very likely end up missing that mark.

The other big issues is that due to CCP Chinese companies heavily self censor and have to be very careful with topic selection. Hence the abundance of period pieces and the current anime themes.

They have to keep in mind the many, many points they could land them in a re-education camp and larger companies literally have commissars (equivalent) embedded.

For all the social score jokes, that’s real over there.

All of that said, production quality is pretty damn amazing due to ease of finding fairly cheap and skilled labor (unemployment amongst young college grads is huge).

 

[genesisblock]

Yes its gacha if you're wondering.

In fact that is one of the main points to be considered in this thread, gacha industry is ridiculously profitable. This is why they can spend so much money in these games.

I see what you mean, but I actually genuinely mean a chinese equivalent of GTA, realistic models and all with a full story and sandbox. Maybe even a Wuxia version of Red Dead Redemption.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I see what you mean, but I actually genuinely mean a chinese equivalent of GTA, realistic models and all with a full story and sandbox. Maybe even a Wuxia version of Red Dead Redemption.

You wont see anything out of china with such a scope that isn't a big anime titty waifu gacha.

 

[genesisblock]

You wont see anything out of china with such a scope that isn't a big anime titty waifu gacha.

I'd agree with you until Wukong came to the picture. Remember how that was supposed to be a pre-order "scam"?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Japan hates everyone

That's not true, Japan loves Mexico...

And México loves Japan

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Japanese devs just don't have that huge internal market and population to compete with China. Plus their economy is not in a great state either.
Western devs lost a lot of their skills and pivoted too much to DEI, where it bloated their size ("scale") while the quality of output did not increase, despite being expensive.
Eastern european devs kinda in between Japan and the West.
Korean devs are something in between Japan and China at this point.

 

[SimTourist]

That's not true, Japan loves Mexico...

And México loves Japan

That's because they've never met in real life lol

 

[Guilty_AI]

I'd agree with you until Wukong came to the picture. Remember how that was supposed to be a pre-order "scam"?

True true, however i wouldn't put its scope on the level of a GTA game.

 

[Wildebeest]

Japan hates everyone

Nah. China and Japan have been at each other's throats for centuries. Same with Russia, but not for as long. You don't get to be such a big country without bullying your neighbours for a long time. The USA would be viewed the same way if it wasn't for post-war recovery and peace.

 

[Parazels]

What's next? The best soccer players from China?

 

[yurinka]

As happened in many other non-gaming areas, AAA gaming has been outsourcing their job, mostly art, animation and Q&A to China. They kept learning, saved money and created their own companies.

They are the ones who now have most of these experienced and talented artists and testers, plus money. And their companies and investors bet on hard working staff who cares about delivering products that are liked by ther target customers instead of blocking the company with stuff like DEI and ESG bullshit.