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[Bartski]

A little over 2 years ago I played a lot of SOTFS. Around 300 hrs total till the end of NG++. Found all the secrets, picked all the shinies, got all the trophies.

I've read countless threads, saw all those hours-long video essays and I've fully experienced all the glaring flaws and annoyances of this game, from bad hitboxes and broken tracking to semi-broken lock-on to cheap deaths to ambushes.

I still loved it.

I don't have a favorite DS game 'cause everyone is special in its own unique way to me.

Among many voices of criticism, I have seen many speak about SOTFS Edition is even worse about everything that is bad about the original. Recently I saw a used copy of "vanilla" DS2 for PS3 on a stand and thought it's a good idea to see for myself.

Just to clear out the confusion, Scholar of The First Sin was initially a patch to DS2 released on 15th Feb 2015 and introduced many welcome and requested changes to the game.
What followed was a Scholar of The First Sin Edition of Dark Souls 2, which is the game you can play on last-gen systems right now that many players seem to dislike. It a PS4/Xbone/PC "next-gen" version of the PS3/360 game containing all 3 DLCs, with texture and light quality tweaks in 60 fps but more importantly - features multiple gameplay changes. We're talking changes to enemy numbers and item placement, AI, enemy mobility - how far they chase you... And Forlorn, OP enemy red phantom that randomly invades you throughout the game.



You can't play an online "vanilla" DS2 anymore as it gets auto patched on the SOTFS patch on install. I wanted the online version to team up with a guy I met on Reddit to farm sunlight medals together. So the game I played now is the original - with the SOTFS patch, which is NOT the same thing as the SOTFS Edition of the game, which I have played much earlier.

So now 2.5 playthroughs of the PS3 version later, the TLDR is this:

Not a single change made in SOTFS Edition regarding the enemy and item placement was IMO made for the better. They all made the general experience of exploring the game world WORSE.
Oh yeah and Forlorn. Everybody loves Forlorn.

When I played the Edition first years back, I just thought it is what it is. The biggest gripe I've seen many people had with it (besides some cases of FROM's all-time worst level design) is that the game is just full of absolute clusterfuck ambushes where you're being attacked by swarms of enemies often accompanied by red phantom NPC invaders. Difficulty in sheer volumes of shit the game throws at you at once and asks you to navigate it with the often dodgy lock-on and clunky movement leading to frustrating deaths by stunlock gank, shot from off-screen or falling in bottomless pits. Shrine of Amana almost gave me PTSD.

Turns out - checking out some interviews FROM game in the matter, this was made partially to accommodate the expanded co-op player count of 6 and incentivize PvE team play.
When playing solo, however - some areas felt overwhelming (unless you farm and get in there really OP) - the best strat was really just to avoid combat and run.

Now, the "early version" seems to be mostly free from this problem! Enemy variety is the same, they actually feel more varied as they occur more sparsely.
There are just fever enemies everywhere and everything feels more balanced towards solo play - at no point did I feel the game is trying too hard to be just difficult for the sake of it.
At no point did I think that I'd actually prefer the way a given combat encounter was set up in SOTFS Edition.

As a result - I was able to thoroughly explore levels as I go, and the boss fights felt like peak challenges of an area, rather than the easy part after miraculously surviving running away from getting ganked. I felt encouraged just to fight everything on my way and usually succeeded at doing that, rather than to run and return to actually explore the area better when I'm leveled so that I can 2-shot everything and survive.

That in turn would have made this version of Dark Souls 2 a more enjoyable experience than the SOTF Edition, if it wasn't for the abysmal 900p/30-if-you're-lucky fps but that's a different story.

So that's my hot take on the matter, take it as you will.

Farewell Dark Souls 2, it was a blast. Love to see all elements that made it great, like build and sorcery variety and powerstancing, making a return in Elden Ring.

 

[Aion002]

I played the original on day one on the ps3 and I agree that is not the best Souls game... Yet...

Various builds to make, tons of content and the gameplay that I like.... Yes! Some bosses (and stages) are terribly "cheap", but I didn't care. I got the plat.

I never played this updated version, I think I will now... I got curious about it.

 

[Northeastmonk]

What’s good in Dark Souls 2 is Re-spec. In case you feel like you messed up your stats three quarters of the way in. I spent 80+ hours with the original Dark Souls II. I put 50 hours into SotFS. I don’t hold it against anyone to be honest. NG+ added a few cool things such as a new enemy type. They’ll attack you right at the starting point. It made the game feel fresh in some ways.
Once you have your poise to 99-100, you’ll get slaughtered without noticing it by a group of enemies. On NG+ it’s like that in No-man’s Whorf.

In a lot of ways Dark Souls II SotFS is good to go back to if you just flat out miss the game. I replayed SotFS a year or two ago. I’ll replay these games every couple years. I hope Elden Ring brings its own separate experience. There are moments like the old king in Dark Souls 2, where there’s nothing quite like seeing that whole thing play out. Maybe after a couple playthroughs of Elden Ring, Dark Souls 1, 2, or 3 sounds good. I almost dislike the idea of saying goodbye to a game, especially one with so much world building to it.

 

[Bartski]

What’s good in Dark Souls 2 is Re-spec. In case you feel like you messed up your stats three quarters of the way in. I spent 80+ hours with the original Dark Souls II. I put 50 hours into SotFS. I don’t hold it against anyone to be honest. NG+ added a few cool things such as a new enemy type. They’ll attack you right at the starting point. It made the game feel fresh in some ways.
Once you have your poise to 99-100, you’ll get slaughtered without noticing it by a group of enemies. On NG+ it’s like that in No-man’s Whorf.

In a lot of ways Dark Souls II SotFS is good to go back to if you just flat out miss the game. I replayed SotFS a year or two ago. I’ll replay these games every couple years. I hope Elden Ring brings its own separate experience. There are moments like the old king in Dark Souls 2, where there’s nothing quite like seeing that whole thing play out. Maybe after a couple playthroughs of Elden Ring, Dark Souls 1, 2, or 3 sounds good. I almost dislike the idea of saying goodbye to a game, especially one with so much world building to it.

Respec is a controversial topic. On one hand, a lack of respec makes you feel the weight of your decisions as to where you steer your build which worked great in Bloodborne. On the other hand, respec is just fun and can make you change the way you play the game. I think it should be there in Elden Ring, but either very limited (like allowing you to reallocate max to 5 points by using a very rare item) and/or be available only from NG+ onwards, to preserve that experience of deliberation but later allow changing up gameplay to keep it fresh.

 

[Clear]

Scholar is better, and as a whole its the best game in the trilogy.

Its certainly the only one were effort was made not just to rehash Demon's Souls in a more connected world.

Not saying this to be contrarian, I've played all these games multiple time and its legit my opinion. Replaying Demon's on PS5 its kinda shocking how much they recycled throughout the series, with really little embellishment beyond details of the combat mechanics. Even the NPC's are basically the same tropes repeated over and over.

2 tries to build things out with more mechanics and world dynamics than any of the other games. Yes it has its rough spots, but you have to say the same about the first game which particularly in its final third has some really crude and unfinished looking areas.

 

[laynelane]

I loved both of them. Some things I appreciated about SotFS were Heide Knights located at Heide's Tower of Flame, hidden stuff like lighting all the torches in The Gutter spawning a new enemy/lighting all the torches in the Undead Crypt revealing hidden enemies, Aldia's expanded role, and the technical and lighting improvements. The expanded multi-player was good too.

 

[Skifi28]

I experienced the SOTFS edition only and I quite enjoyed it. I'm one of the people that like 2 more than 1 if you can believe it. I read about the differences, but always assumed they were for the better seeing how bad DS2 was originally received.

It's a very interesting topic and I'd like to form an opinion of my own, but I wouldn't be able to go back to the PS3 version. The technical aspect alone would negatively affect my objectivity in comparing the two versions.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Game is amazing and I played it on PC.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I played both on PC and Majula is the best hub area in any souls. No one can change my mind.

 

[Anchovie123]

Platinumed both but honestly cant really remember the original or its differences all that well. All i remember was that Scholar was 60fps and that was huge for me. DS2 is kinda a big blur in my memory, definitely the weakest in the entire series.

 

[Larxia]

I played Dark Souls 2 a lot but scholar only once so I don't have that much memories from it other than ennemies and their placement being differents.

That said, Dark Souls 2, scholar or not, is my favorite game in the series. Yes like many people, I prefer how clever and well connected the world of Dark Souls 1 is, however, something to really keep in consideration is that it's only the case for the first half of dark souls 1, the second half being really awful in comparison...

So yes, the sense of adventure, exploration etc (especially with the lack of teleport, I think they made a mistake making teleports available right from the beginning in the next games, it really killed the immersion / dangerous adventure feeling) was the best in dark souls 1 until the end of anor londo, but I can't keep this game as my favorite when I don't like a whole half of it.

Dark Souls 2 had a great atmosphere, great areas with lot a variety, and most importantly, the best gameplay in the series. It's very reactive and precise, when Dark Souls 1 was a bit too heavy / slow, and dark souls 3 was too floaty. The amount of build variety is insane, you can do so many things. It's very balanced, unlike dark souls 3 where weight doesn't have that much impact anymore and playing with a heavy build is recommended since a dex build won't be much faster anymore in comparison to the damage they deal.

The PVP was the best in the series, I actually really miss it and I would like some kind of spin off focused on this. Yeah yeah people are going to hate me talking about a dark souls pvp online game, but eh, the combats I had on this were better for me than most fighting games I played, and it's uncomparable to mmos and any other things. Dark Souls 2 had a lot of different pvp modes and that was great, it would be nice to have some kind of stand alone game dedicated to this for people who really like it, since you can't really find this anywhere else, and the main games do get quite deserted after a while, meaning it's hard to find opponents.

 

[Tschumi]

I was going to get scholar of the first sin because i wanted some glumpthy horror difficulty.. i couldn't find preview videos on PlayStation store so i watched some live streaming, it was people running around without armour on with giant axes... It just didn't appeal to me.. so yeah didn't get it

 

[Clear]

I think the thing I like(d) most about DS2 was the way that it rewards methodical play; many of the areas are like puzzles in that if you go about them in a steady, tactical way its all quite manageable, but if you rush or get careless you can quickly find yourself horribly over matched. The DLC areas all lean really heavy on this style, and are in my opinion a creative highpoint.

 

[Larxia]

I was going to get scholar of the first sin because i wanted some glumpthy horror difficulty.. i couldn't find preview videos on PlayStation store so i watched some live streaming, it was people running around without armour on with giant axes... It just didn't appeal to me.. so yeah didn't get it

I mean, you can find the exact same type of video for any other souls games, it's not specific to dark souls 2.
Some people like to play with a naked character for fun or challenge, but it's really not how you need to play the games, you can just play them normally.

 

[TrueLegend]

I loved Dark Souls 2 and I loved SOTFS even more. That being said some of the early game NPC Mini-boss battles are a bit on your face type thing. Dark Souls II is the best dark souls because it is a more truer RPG than other souls games which are more action heavy. In DS2 gameplay is slow which is not something most ppl like but it's more methodic than other souls. Its also much more balanced. DS1 and DS3 Dex and magic are not well balanced. I am waiting for Flames of the Old mod for DS2 and Dark Souls Nightfall for DS1. Story vise SOTFS is just a much better game. Although I hated the retards who defended weapon break bug as feature when SOTFS first came out. Seriously Dark Souls online communities are double-edged sword which is why I am glad From doesn't give a fuck about what they want. Then there are passive-aggressive fake backlash by suckers like the games dont look good. The pony argument like Souls Artstyle is great but graphics suck, like REALLY? Art Style and Visual Fidelity live separately in a vaccum. NO. These are the best looking and best playing ARPGs period. DS2 on 4k looks like Straight from the Concept Art which I love, DS3 is amazingly cinematic and I can't wait for Elden Ring. The strongest contender of GOTG.

 

[TexMex]

Great thread and 2 isn’t nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Also - best Hub in all of souls fight me

 

[Captain Toad]

Dark Souls 2 is great, both on PS3 and PS4.

 

[Bartski]

Interesting replies from those who played it when it was new.
SOTFS Edition was also clearly made for players of the original game to revisit Drangleic expecting a greater challenge, now I just think they might have gone overboard with that in some areas.
Everything that makes DS2 great and unique is the same in both versions, I really hope Elden RIng also features some forms of interacting with the environment to similar to using the lockstone in No-man's Wharf.

 

[zombrex]

DLC areas were best in the series imo.

 

[Chukhopops]

Only played SOTFS and I loved it but at the same time it was my first in the series.

I loved how absolutely huge the game is with the DLC, the build variety, the environment variety, how much secret stuff there is everywhere, the lore and atmosphere of the game. It took me months to beat it since I was a complete newbie to Souls games at the time. What an amazing game and memory.

 

[Bartski]

DLC areas were best in the series imo.

Totally agree, both in level design and bosses. But then their "optional areas" were also the biggest clusterfuck of the series. I have to admit I have never managed to play through the Iron Passage and actually fight the enemies, rather than just outmaneuver them to get to the Smelter Demon. The same goes for Frigid Outskirts.

 

[DevilMayFlyForAWhiteGuy]

If someone put a gun to my head and asked which Dark Souls was my favorite I’d have to say 2. Especially SotFS with all the DLC. To me I had the most fun with doing different build play throughs. Really glad that Elden Ring is bringing back 2’s Dual wielding system and twin blades.

 

[Y0ssarian]

While DS2 SotFS was not the first Souls game I played, it was the first one I actually finished. I liked it so much I played Dark Souls Prepare to Die straight afterwards and have since completed all of them. Good game

 

[The Cartographer]

Played the original as it came out on PS3 and played SotFS on PS4 this year.
It's a bad game, or to better describe it, it's a extremely ambitious sequel (or at least it was during the first half of development) that delivered a few great new mechanics here and there but still plagued by countless horrible game design decisions.

 

[BbMajor7th]

I have a lot of love for DSII, it's definitely a flawed gem, with some bizarre choices (Iron Keep above Earthen Peak will never not get a 'huh?' from me - why not just make it a teleport or an eagle flight? Why a lift?), but I respect how much they tried to achieve with it. Technically and mechanically it really did attempt to build on the first game instead of aping it.

You got some pretty decent (for PS3) cloth/wind physics, dynamic lighting, height-sensitive wet shaders, massively improved modelling, ambient occlusion - and on the mechanical front they went back to Demon Souls with the health halving on death (though made it significantly less brutal), and brought back consumable health items. They improved bonfire warping and brought-back the level-up lady (who became an ongoing mainstay for FROM), torch lighting (which would return in future games), adaptivity, destructable walls for short cuts, an expanded hub concept. And then there were the cool quality of life improvements like Soul Vessels and Bonfire Ascetics, which - for some unknown reason - never turned up in future games. They also massively expanded the number of NPCs and gave a lot of them much more dialogue and much more detailed quests.

It's not all perfect, I'll grant you, but there's a real feeling they wanted to do more than just a straight sequel. It was the right call and made for a more interesting game. Dark Souls III is the most consistent, polished and attractive game in the series, but it's also the least interesting to revisit or talk about, because it was so safe.

 

[bitbydeath]

It’s a good game but the decision for hollowing to consume half your health without holding onto the binding ring was some real BS. I’m glad that didn’t continue into the third.

 

[Wildebeest]

Dark Souls 2 was a good game, but as you play it, the long list of minor problems add up. I understand the PVP people who liked how it felt more balanced for their needs. I don't understand the people who argue that it is a matter of "taste" if the story, game world and action are actually the best of the three. Sorry, the game just didn't come together properly and was a bit of a Frankenstein's monster which Scholar was supposed to stitch together properly. Scholar made it worse, but I think there were some good ideas, like having the purse user actually use purses.

 

[ClosBSAS]

its hands down the bet souls game and one of froms greatest masterpieces. amazing game. loved everything about it.

dark souls 3 on the other hand was complete and utter trash. too easy.

 

[existensmaximum]

Dark Souls 2 (SOTFS) is the only Souls game I gave up on, out of pure boredom. I love all the other games + Bloodborne but this game is just pure trash. Like, a low tier fan-made game or something.

(Only offline mode, never tried PVP in any game)

 

[Astral Dog]

Dark Souls 2 was the first FROM game i played, it didn't left a good impression, later i got Bloodborne for cheap though and really liked it, then DS3 and DS1, still not sure about 2

 

[matty3092]

I genuinely wonder if I played the same game as everyone else specifically the pvp in every souls game is ass the lag makes it impossible to know where ur opponent actually is they'll just straight up teleport behind u and backstab you lol

 

[Shut0wen]

I think this game gets hate because its harder then souls 1 and 3

 

[Rien]

Hmmm maybe I should boot this game up again. I have played it twice and quit halfway but I am hungry for souls games atm

 

[Decontamination Silo]

DS2 is so comfy. It has the most complex systems of the series, magic builds are viable and the locations are varied and plentiful.

I've always wanted a sequel and after seeing Elden Ring gameplay it looks like I'm finally getting one. So hype.

 

[Cryio]

I only played Scholar Edition on PC. I'd say it's generally much easier still than DS1, the game world is vastly bigger, there are 3 times more bosses (though the majority are of a lower quality overall than DS1), but I had a blast.

 

[Graciaus]

Moving a couple of the items was good but everything else is bad. Completely ruined Iron Keep with the changes made.

Tried doing some replays on sotfs and eventually just uninstalled it.

 

[ClanOfNone]

Still secretly the best Dark Souls game, the build and item variety can't be beat. I've finished all 3 Souls games multiple times, buy DS2 is the only one I platinumed.
Hell, it's my only platinum trophy!

 

[Scotty W]

All I have played is the Switch version of ds1, and for some stupid reason because I am in Japan there is no English mode, unlike almost every other Switch game. I don’t think it is much fun.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Reading your take was very frustrating as I find Scholar of the First Sin to be the only decently designed FromSoftware game and you were wrong on many accounts.

1. PC, PS4, and XBOX One were the only ones to receive the faster 60fps redesigned masterpiece of the true Scholar of the First Sin in DX11. The last gen DX9 version you played was GOTY Dark Souls II in reality and had massive technical difficulties and some of the worst design decisions in the franchise.

2. Scholar of the First Sin's enemy/item/level changes are a massive improvement. For one, the Dull Ember necessary for elemental infusions is available in 2 to 3 boss battles after being moved to the early game area of The Lost Bastille from the mid game area of the Iron Keep. Secondly, there are more abundant fragrant branches for opening up blocked progression paths and Boss Weapon merchants and most are much more easily accessible. Thirdly, the added shortcuts in No Man's Wharf and Dragon Aerie are amazing for speed runs of various builds. Additionally, there is added utility with new and modified items like Watchdragon Parma (Increased Drop Rate), Black Witch Veil (Immunity to Curse), and many others. Also, the lighting of sconces actually makes a huge difference in traversing the darkened areas and even adds optional enemies with great drops. On top of that some items like Gower's Ring of Protection (negates majority of damage from behind) being moved to an early game area of Shaded Woods from the late game area of Drangleic Castle can completely change how most boss fights can be approached.

3. Ambushes are abundant across all FromSoftware titles, but Scholar of the First Sin has the added benefit of being able to take out most of the mob enemies individually or in pairs through observation and planning prior to the ambush in addition to the aluring skulls crutch available across the franchise. For example, in the Undead Crypt the hallway to the boss need not be filled with phantoms at all if the undead ringing the bell under the stairs are defeated ahead of time. The game even has the fastest running speed across the franchise, fastest ladder climbing, refined jumping, and wide corridors to make the challenges easier. Even the newly spawned invaders that ambush are amazing for farming certain items and help keep a player on their toes even on repeat playthroughs.

4. I am not even going to go into how much better balanced the weapon and magic classes are in this installment relative to the rest of the series or how sensible the upgrade and infusion system is in this game. I won't even point out how much easier many things are to acquire or farm in this installment with the addition of bonfire ascetics and improved drop rates.

 

[Bartski]

Reading your take was very frustrating as I find Scholar of the First Sin to be the only decently designed FromSoftware game and you were wrong on many accounts.

1. PC, PS4, and XBOX One were the only ones to receive the faster 60fps redesigned masterpiece of the true Scholar of the First Sin in DX11. The last gen DX9 version you played was GOTY Dark Souls II in reality and had massive technical difficulties and some of the worst design decisions in the franchise.

2. Scholar of the First Sin's enemy/item/level changes are a massive improvement. For one, the Dull Ember necessary for elemental infusions is available in 2 to 3 boss battles after being moved to the early game area of The Lost Bastille from the mid game area of the Iron Keep. Secondly, there are more abundant fragrant branches for opening up blocked progression paths and Boss Weapon merchants and most are much more easily accessible. Thirdly, the added shortcuts in No Man's Wharf and Dragon Aerie are amazing for speed runs of various builds. Additionally, there is added utility with new and modified items like Watchdragon Parma (Increased Drop Rate), Black Witch Veil (Immunity to Curse), and many others. Also, the lighting of sconces actually makes a huge difference in traversing the darkened areas and even adds optional enemies with great drops. On top of that some items like Gower's Ring of Protection (negates majority of damage from behind) being moved to an early game area of Shaded Woods from the late game area of Drangleic Castle can completely change how most boss fights can be approached.

3. Ambushes are abundant across all FromSoftware titles, but Scholar of the First Sin has the added benefit of being able to take out most of the mob enemies individually or in pairs through observation and planning prior to the ambush in addition to the aluring skulls crutch available across the franchise. For example, in the Undead Crypt the hallway to the boss need not be filled with phantoms at all if the undead ringing the bell under the stairs are defeated ahead of time. The game even has the fastest running speed across the franchise, fastest ladder climbing, refined jumping, and wide corridors to make the challenges easier. Even the newly spawned invaders that ambush are amazing for farming certain items and help keep a player on their toes even on repeat playthroughs.

4. I am not even going to go into how much better balanced the weapon and magic classes are in this installment relative to the rest of the series or how sensible the upgrade and infusion system is in this game. I won't even point out how much easier many things are to acquire or farm in this installment with the addition of bonfire ascetics and improved drop rates.

That's a very good post. You clearly know more about the game than I do and you sound as if I said I hated SOTFS, quite on the contrary.
I actually agree on almost everything and yes the PS3 version runs like shit, I made a clear distinction between the SOTFS Edition and the SOTFS patch I played.
You're right about the item location placement, I think I never paid this much attention to that part, and point 2 is a very good list of examples of why that is the case, especially the part about Dull Ember.

I still disagree on 3. I mean, of course, there is an abundance of ways of dealing with every situation depending on your build here as in every other FROM game but the way SOTFS Edition pushes enemy numbers at you feels forced and more often than not totally unnecessary in comparison to the "Vanilla" version. In hindsight, none of that made the game any better, especially NG+ and beyond.

BTW if I remember correctly the zombie ringing the bell in the Undead Crypt hallway respawns so you can only delay the bell ring as you enter, that part was always much easier to run past than to fight in both versions but that's beside the point.

 

[FunkMiller]

Well, it’s probably still better than every other Soulslike game out there, so there’s that.

 

[laynelane]

That's a very good post. You clearly know more about the game than I do and you sound as if I said I hated SOTFS, quite on the contrary.
I actually agree on almost everything and yes the PS3 version runs like shit, I made a clear distinction between the SOTFS Edition and the SOTFS patch I played.
You're right about the item location placement, I think I never paid this much attention to that part, and point 2 is a very good list of examples of why that is the case, especially the part about Dull Ember.

I still disagree on 3. I mean, of course, there is an abundance of ways of dealing with every situation depending on your build here as in every other FROM game but the way SOTFS Edition pushes enemy numbers at you feels forced and more often than not totally unnecessary in comparison to the "Vanilla" version. In hindsight, none of that made the game any better, especially NG+ and beyond.

BTW if I remember correctly the zombie ringing the bell in the Undead Crypt hallway respawns so you can only delay the bell ring as you enter, that part was always much easier to run past than to fight in both versions but that's beside the point.

There's three Hollows in the Undead Crypt who will ring the bell. Their attempts to get to the bell are staggered in time, but if you know where they are (they're invisible before they start moving) you can kill them and they stay dead.

 

[V4skunk]

I like DS2.
The level design was terrible coming of DS1 though.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

People who believe DS2 is the best in the series: was it your first game? Did you primarily play PVP? Because I struggle to understand how anyone could hold this opinion. It would be like thinking Super Mario Sunshine is the best Mario game.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I like DS2.
The level design was terrible coming of DS1 though.

I don't think the individual levels were any worse than DS1, just the way the levels were connected in DS2 were sometimes nonsensical. I am happy there is nothing like Sen's Funhouse of Horror and Blight town in DS2. I am also happy that there is no Anor Londo chapel rafters and no Silver Knight Archers with pinpoint accuracy and rapid fire greatbows to ruin my runs.

I still disagree on 3. I mean, of course, there is an abundance of ways of dealing with every situation depending on your build here as in every other FROM game but the way SOTFS Edition pushes enemy numbers at you feels forced and more often than not totally unnecessary in comparison to the "Vanilla" version. In hindsight, none of that made the game any better, especially NG+ and beyond.

That is fine. I personally feel that DS2's enemies are always much more manageable than DS1 New Londo's ghosts and Darkwraiths or the toxic blow dart brigade of Blighttown. All the enemies of DS2 are even more manageable than the scores of undead skeletons in many areas of the Catacombs and Tomb of the Giants. Even the headless dinosaurs of Lost Izalith in DS1 are much more of a nuisance than Imperfects of Dragon Sanctum in DS2.

I will admit that I never played the original unpatched version of DS2, but I played the PS3 version of Scholar of the First Sin you played to completion and the only details I liked were that the player started with DLC keys and DLC weapons. Everything else was notably worse. I do not recollect reading about any major enemy/item location changes in that version relative to the original release.

 

[NeverYouMind]

People who believe DS2 is the best in the series: was it your first game? Did you primarily play PVP? Because I struggle to understand how anyone could hold this opinion. It would be like thinking Super Mario Sunshine is the best Mario game.

I hated every Dark Souls game I played on the first run and only played them offline. I first played Demon Souls demo, then intro section of Dark Souls 3, then Dark Souls, followed by DS2, then DS3, and lastly Demon Souls. I like the bonfire ascetics, dual wielding, infusing boss weapons, a sensible upgrade system, faster running, faster climbing, a separate jump button, fluidity of weapon combos even when whiffing (butcher's knife and maces are extra fun), immediate fast travel between bonfires, and many immediately available paths to take instead of following a linear route filled with obstacles. For me it is the realization of Zelda II's potential and a sensible refinement of the mechanical designs of Demon Souls and Dark Souls.

If I had to rank the final releases: DS2: SoFS > Demon Souls > Dark Souls Remastered > Dark Souls 3. I will admit that the mods for Dark Souls 1 can make it very fun.

P.S. Super Mario Bros. 3 remains unchallenged, but Sunshine is the most palatable of the 3D releases to me.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Edit: More useful rings for every build, more ring slots, more armor, more in-depth customization are also bonuses.

The biggest mistake it made was to have the locked-on heavy attack change direction based on where the analog stick is positioned. However, I consider the homing locked-on jumping attack to be a feature unlike most and am not too concerned about how areas are interconnected as long as individual areas are readily accessible in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Clear]

People who believe DS2 is the best in the series: was it your first game? Did you primarily play PVP? Because I struggle to understand how anyone could hold this opinion. It would be like thinking Super Mario Sunshine is the best Mario game.

Played every game in the series in release order, starting with an imported copy of Demon's back on PS3.

The value for me always comes down to replayability, and DS2 is far and away the most replayable in my opinion. What's more its the one game that improves substantially the further in you get, a thing I absolutely defy anyone to say about the other games because they tend to peak around the mid-way point.

 

[rofif]

Vanilla (non sotfs) dark souls 2 is WAY BETTER.
sotfs just turned everything into a trap, randomized enemies, items and it's just a plain more annoying experience. I dislike the dlc for the same reasons.
But vanilla ds2 is amazing. Don't get me wrong, I love sotfs too but vanilla easily wins for me. They got it all right.
I would bring only 1 change from sotfs to vanilla and that is to give the player that item so you can enchant weapons sooner.

heide knights? Kinghts lost without their kingdom, wondering about... NAH LETS PUTE THEM ALL IN HEIDE
Dragon? Oh sure, why not put him right in front of the guy who kills dragons.

 

[rofif]

I have a lot of love for DSII, it's definitely a flawed gem, with some bizarre choices (Iron Keep above Earthen Peak will never not get a 'huh?' from me - why not just make it a teleport or an eagle flight? Why a lift?), but I respect how much they tried to achieve with it. Technically and mechanically it really did attempt to build on the first game instead of aping it.

You got some pretty decent (for PS3) cloth/wind physics, dynamic lighting, height-sensitive wet shaders, massively improved modelling, ambient occlusion - and on the mechanical front they went back to Demon Souls with the health halving on death (though made it significantly less brutal), and brought back consumable health items. They improved bonfire warping and brought-back the level-up lady (who became an ongoing mainstay for FROM), torch lighting (which would return in future games), adaptivity, destructable walls for short cuts, an expanded hub concept. And then there were the cool quality of life improvements like Soul Vessels and Bonfire Ascetics, which - for some unknown reason - never turned up in future games. They also massively expanded the number of NPCs and gave a lot of them much more dialogue and much more detailed quests.

It's not all perfect, I'll grant you, but there's a real feeling they wanted to do more than just a straight sequel. It was the right call and made for a more interesting game. Dark Souls III is the most consistent, polished and attractive game in the series, but it's also the least interesting to revisit or talk about, because it was so safe.

It is a shifting dreamlands (hell lands). Not making any sense is the point. I actually love ho eerie it all feels... everyone slowly loosing their minds and so on.