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Black Panther and embracing its message

Black Panther is a 2018 film directed by Ryan Coogler.

It stars two characters, Black Panther and Killmonger, as they fight to prove the rightness of their ideology.

Let's get it out of the way. Killmonger represents the Black American. He's half American, half Wakandan (African). He was left behind by his ancestors who decided to leave him there. Because of this, he has a deep seeded anger. He has justifiable reasons for his anger, just like black Americans.

This parallel is obvious especially to black people. It's pretty much why he's so celebrated, because people connect with him so much.

Black Panther on the other hand was raised in a land nestled by the comforts and successes of his ancestors.

The problem with Killmonger's anger is that it turned from justified anger to burn everything. If Killmonger had just taken the throne by rightful combat and been a just king that spread Wakanda's tech in a humane way it would have been just fine. It's interesting that Killmonger was written in a time when black Americans are currently embodying a "fuck white people" "all white people are racist" ideology that dismisses people solely by their race through their very justified anger.

Killmonger is your average BLM-er made flesh, but with experienced combat training. He even burns his own homeland out of pure fury.

But there's another way, and Black Panther takes some prodding, but eventually sees the error of his fathers ways of leaving his cousin in backwater America. At the end of the movie he shows black pride not by anger, nor fury. But by benevolence and open dialogue. Killmonger on the other hand dies from his own fury. A wound that was self inflicted. He refused to get help.

You could see BP as a story that tells of the extremism of black politics on either side of the aisle. It's fine to be mad about injustice, but when you do so in an unjust way you aren't helping the problem. But closing yourself off to it and pretending it doesn't exist doesn't help either.

The only thing that wins at the end of the day is love.

TLDR: Ryan Coogler sold SJW black folk a woke film that basically posits that they're in the wrong and made a billion dollars at the box office out of it. The movie acts as a warning to all black Americans: don't become Killmonger.

I came to these conclusions when i first saw the movie on release weekend, but seeing it a second time with my folks a few days later really sealed it. How do you interpret BP?

IMO it's the best super hero movie I've seen even though it has some flaws (anything involving his brother for instance).
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
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haxan7

Banned
I haven't seen it yet.

But I doubt the director was going for a criticism of SJWism. Not trying to invalidate your analysis, but I just want to point out that your read is just one of many possible interpretations. This is the same for any piece of art/literature.
 
I haven't seen it yet.

But I doubt the director was going for a criticism of SJWism. Not trying to invalidate your analysis, but I just want to point out that your read is just one of many possible interpretations. This is the same for any piece of art/literature.

If he didn't then he got some muddled storytelling then.
 
Wow that is one (shitty) way of looking at it I suppose. Films biggest message was that traditionalism is a big sham that will create more victims just for the sake of appearing virtous. That societal change only come through nasty but neccesaary social upheval. That their "Wakanda First" policy sucked and the wise old traditionalist leaders were so wrong to abandon the world to suck their own isolationist dicks.

But nah It was anti-sjw all along. That works I guess.
 
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haxan7

Banned
Wow that is one (shitty) way of looking at iy I suppose. Films biggest message was that traditionalism is a big sham that will create more victims just for the sake of appearing virtous. That societal change only come through nasty but neccesaary social upheval. That their "Wakanda First" policy sucked and the wise old traditionalist leaders were so wrong to abandon the world to suck their own virtuos dick.

But nah It was anti-sjw all along. That works I guess.

You might find that not immediately insulting people when trying to criticize their thoughtfully presented ideas leads to a longer lasting and more insightful discussion of the topic.

If he didn't then he got some muddled storytelling then.
I would like to believe your interpretation is true. I haven't seen it, it just seems unlikely that BP made a billion dollars picking apart BLM and no one noticed until now.

It's just an action movie done in the most popular style of the day, which also is based around black characters, so it got extra attention for that reason.

I also find it annoying that the guy with the Trump avatar immediately pops up out of nowhere to start shitting on a discussion about it.
 
My interpretetion is right. Otherwise director is a hack.

Real enlightening criticism there OP.

I didn't say that at all. Just that a lot of the stuff is pretty much all over the movie. It clearly presents Killmonger in the bad while also acknowledging that his anger is justified for example. To me the conclusion is glaringly obvious to the point where it's hard to me to think it's not on purpose.

You might find that not immediately insulting people when trying to criticize their thoughtfully presented ideas leads to a longer lasting and more insightful discussion of the topic.


I would like to believe your interpretation is true. I haven't seen it, it just seems unlikely that BP made a billion dollars picking apart BLM and no one noticed until now.

It's just an action movie done in the most popular style of the day, which also is based around black characters, so it got extra attention for that reason.

I also find it annoying that the guy with the Trump avatar immediately pops up out of nowhere to start shitting on a discussion about it.

It isn't just an action movie. It is fiercely political. That's the main crux of the story actually.

I'm also not the only person to notice either. There are people on twitter who were mad because it basically says black americans are in the wrong "even in a movie made for black americans".
 
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You might find that not immediately insulting people when trying to criticize their thoughtfully presented ideas leads to a longer lasting and more insightful discussion of the topic.


I would like to believe your interpretation is true. I haven't seen it, it just seems unlikely that BP made a billion dollars picking apart BLM and no one noticed until now.

It's just an action movie done in the most popular style of the day, which also is based around black characters, so it got extra attention for that reason.

I also find it annoying that the guy with the Trump avatar immediately pops up out of nowhere to start shitting on a discussion about it.

Thanks for the advice. Point still stands though.
 

EverydayBeast

ChatGPT 0.001
Fuck the message when it was just a downright awesome super hero action movie at its core, not everything needs to have a message.
 

haxan7

Banned
It's Marvel. I stopped watching them long ago cuz I just can't. If there is any kind of social commentary going on, I think it's in the viewer's head.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
It's Marvel. I stopped watching them long ago cuz I just can't. If there is any kind of social commentary going on, I think it's in the viewer's head.
Its ok cgi looks outdated and it looks less "clear" than the other superhero movies.
 
Fuck the message when it was just a downright awesome super hero action movie at its core, not everything needs to have a message.

I find it hard pressed to say that Black Panther, a movie about a black nation that hides itself from the world to evade colonialism does not have a message.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
I find it hard pressed to say that Black Panther, a movie about a black nation that hides itself from the world to evade colonialism does not have a message.
I thought it horded technology while the rest of Africa is a third world country.
 
I didn't say that at all. Just that a lot of the stuff is pretty much all over the movie. It clearly presents Killmonger in the bad while also acknowledging that his anger is justified for example. To me the conclusion is glaringly obvious to the point where it's hard to me to think it's not on purpose.



It isn't just an action movie. It is fiercely political. That's the main crux of the story actually.

I'm also not the only person to notice either. There are people on twitter who were mad because it basically says black americans are in the wrong "even in a movie made for black americans".

It is not all over the place if you stop thinking in terms of right and wrong, villains and heroes. Killmonger is portrayed as a symphatetic figure who has been wronged by his traditionalist ancestors. He was left to fend for himself early in his life, possibly damaged beyond repair and he takes to military service where he can get by while also "dealing" with his hatred. At the end of the movie he doesnt go out like a villain but a tragic figure who managed to bring meaningful social change to his homeland and inspire its leader to be more progressive and idealistic.
 
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EverydayBeast

ChatGPT 0.001
I find it hard pressed to say that Black Panther, a movie about a black nation that hides itself from the world to evade colonialism does not have a message.
What's shocking about a hermit nation hiding it's tech so baddies don't get hold of it when that's what the shield should have been doing from the start? Wakanda is smart af, poster.
 

haxan7

Banned
I find it hard pressed to say that Black Panther, a movie about a black nation that hides itself from the world to evade colonialism does not have a message.
How many other Marvel movies have an intentional message? Sorry but they are the most "non-message" movies around. You don't draw those kinds of numbers pushing an agenda.
 
It is not all over the place if you stop thinking in terms of right and wrong, villains and heroes. Killmonger is portrayed as a symphatetic figure who has been wronged by his traditionalist ancestors. He was left to fend for himself early in his life, possibly damaged beyond repair and he takes to military service where he can get by while also "dealing" with his hatred. At the end of the movie he doesnt go out like a villain but a tragic figure who managed to bring meaningful social change to his homeland and inspire its leader to be more progressive and idealistic.

Nothing you've said goes against my conclusion on the film and character. He's sympathetic, but he's also a warning on how far anger can take you.

How many other Marvel movies have an intentional message? Sorry but they are the most "non-message" movies around. You don't draw those kinds of numbers pushing an agenda.

Normally I would agree, but BP is very different. Politics are central to its story.
 
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forethefuture is right in his assessment of the movie. cindi is looking a little too hard at certain things in this movie. all in all the movie was decent in terms of movies outright and ill say in terms of marvel movies one of the better ones but thats just because i find most marvel movies painfully dull.
 

Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
It was marvels weakest movie this year. I just don’t get the overwhelming love. As a marvel movie It was simply subpar (which for marvel movies still means it was a good movie compared to everything else)
 

Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
It was the dullest marvel movie I’ve seen. I don’t really care about any messages, I just want to be entertained.
 
Nothing you've said goes against my conclusion on the film and character. He's sympathetic, but he's also a warning on how far anger can take you.



Normally I would agree, but BP is very different. Politics are central to its story.

You are portraying Killmonger as a net negative. But it is obvious the societal change depicted in the movie wouldn't be possible without him no matter how well intantioned or centrist T'challa would be. He inspired our protagonist to be more progressive and Wakanda is now more open to the whole world thanks to him. His hate and bloodlust were also the product of the old ways and movie has no problem of shouting to them "You were wrong!"
 
Welp haven't seen it so just gonna quietly bow out of here.

It was a fair bit like Civil War, in that it wasn't overly preachy with any specific message, but you could still absolutely find a message and plenty of argument to support it. My feelings after seeing the movie were close to Cindi's, but that's not what everyone will see, and I think that's a good thing.

Civil War and Black Panther would have been much worse movies if they beat you over the head with a message, and told you "this is how you should think, and if you disagree then you're wrong." But it would also be wrong to suggest that Civil War and Black Panther aren't political movies. They are, but they're also open to interpretation.
 

Grinchy

Banned
I liked that it had an underlying message, but the movie itself was just so uninteresting to me. I couldn't stop questioning the sloppy plot and clumsy world building. Every single attempt at humor completely missed and some of the CG felt like watching Spiderman in 2002. It just felt so amateurish throughout the whole thing.
 

EBE

Member
How did he find out his uncle killed his dad? Like, I know he found his dad's books about Wakanda and everything, but how did he figure this out? Did I miss something?

Edit. I mean the villain
 
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Alx

Member
I think the writer managed to walk a thin line, telling a very conventional story while still sending supporting messages to all sides of the argument. Which can be very morally ambiguous at times.
Obviously Killmonger is the bad guy, he's "wrong", but everything is made for the audience to sympathize with him. Like the early line about colonists stealing African culture, or the more shocking "bury me in the ocean with my ancestors that jumped from the ships, because they knew death was better than bondage" that most found emotional (bro, your ancestors were in chains because colonists stole their freedom, you're in chains because you're a criminal who killed people and tried to start a war !).
In the end I don't think the movie is sending a strong message (other than the usual "don't hate but be generous instead", which is hardly controversial). But it manages to please its target audience by sugar coating it with a semblance of political message. It's a pure commercial product.
 
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Bryank75

Banned
I can see parallels between Killmongers aggressive attitude and the current far-lefts ideology and how they both ultimately backfired.
 

Alfadawg

Banned
You are wrong OP.

BLM don't hate white people.

Killmonger was right but they had to make him a baddie so he took it too comically evil which tbh didn't really fit in with his character at all.

That bit was artificially put in to make him the villain.

His last line is epic and so out of place in the otherwise dumb MCU
 

NahaNago

Member
Killmonger won in the end since he got Wakanda to open up and help others. He was still weird. He knew way too much about a secret nation and it's people that he had never visited.

edit: I still think that abandoning Killmonger as a child was stupid. Like seriously your a king you could't find anybody to take care of the kid.
 
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Killmonger won in the end since he got Wakanda to open up and help others. He was still weird. He knew way too much about a secret nation and it's people that he had never visited.

edit: I still think that abandoning Killmonger as a child was stupid. Like seriously your a king you could't find anybody to take care of the kid.

He read about it in a book his father had. You missed the part where he reads a book and says,”reading about your country.”
 

NahaNago

Member
He read about it in a book his father had. You missed the part where he reads a book and says,”reading about your country.”

I would think recent books wouldn't detail the rhino guys fathers death since it would recent news. Plus reading a book and knowing exactly where to go to drop off the dead guy are 2 completely different things.
 
. The movie acts as a warning to all black Americans: don't become Killmonger.

I came to these conclusions when i first saw the movie on release weekend, but seeing it a second time with my folks a few days later really sealed it. How do you interpret.

The film was not made with this in mind, but your interpretation is interesting, and I agree in ways.

In particular, some BLM chapters, well members, have power trip issues resulting in the turning away of white allies, or believing that allies should put up with words and develop "thick skin" in its likeliness just because they (BLM member) receive daily abuse (stick to the objective). But this isn't the place to talk about all that. Don't get me started on the destruction of the right-wing blacks whom have money to make through notoriety.
 
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Dr. Claus

Banned
My interpretetion is right. Otherwise director is a hack.

Real enlightening criticism there OP.

The salt is real.

You do know there are other ways one can view/interpret art, right? Hell, there are entire websites dedicated in trying to gleam political messages where none exist. Why can't someone have a different view point for Black Panther that isn't your own?
 

Arkage

Banned
I think it stayed pretty morally neutral as far as Killmonger's motives, and what the end results may have been for the black community had he succeeded.
 

Weiji

Banned
I agree with your overall analysis op but i would take it back a step. Killmonger is more like a militant then specifically BLM. I would say he’s more in line with modern Antifa or the more aggressive black power radicals from the 70s. Groups whose core belief is that they can create a better world through what they perceive as justifiable violence.

I would also point out that although he is clearly the villain he fundamentally changes the thinking of the protagonist, who comes to accept his family’s own responsibility for helping create the justifiable monster and seeks to move away from the status quo to the betterment of mankind rather then his self defined group.
 

Gander

Banned
One of the main messages I got from it was letting go of jealousy, pettiness and anger to serve a higher purpose.

It's a scene that went overlooked but it was one of the most powerful. When the queen and Shuri offer the power to M'Baku he could have done any number of horrible selfish things but he decided to heal his rival for the good of the kingdom.
 
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One of the main messages I got from it was letting go of jealousy, pettiness and anger to serve a higher purpose.

It's a scene that went overlooked but it was one of the most powerful. When the queen and Shuri offer the power to M'Baku he could have done any number of horrible selfish things but he decided to heal his rival for the good of the kingdom.

I'll go further than that.

Honor. Integrity. Valor.

These are also things M'Baku exhibited by declining the heart-shaped herb, and joining the final battle.

These are characteristics that are in short supply.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Why didn't the king just point out that KM was the guy who broke out Sonic Screw Hand and shot him with the grenade launcher and therefore should be imprisoned? Instead he just stood there in silence while his best friend turned on him. Such a loophole in the plot, B- movie.
 
Why didn't the king just point out that KM was the guy who broke out Sonic Screw Hand and shot him with the grenade launcher and therefore should be imprisoned? Instead he just stood there in silence while his best friend turned on him. Such a loophole in the plot, B- movie.

I really liked Black Panther, but yeah, there were some plotholes.

 

John Day

Member
Why didn't the king just point out that KM was the guy who broke out Sonic Screw Hand and shot him with the grenade launcher and therefore should be imprisoned? Instead he just stood there in silence while his best friend turned on him. Such a loophole in the plot, B- movie.

When Klaw was rescued, T’challa glimpsed the royal/family ring hanging from the masked dude. So when Killmonger actually shows himself as part of the family, T’Challa feels conflicted to do “the right thing by tradition”. Everyone wants him to inprison him, but he decides to comply “because by birthright, he has a right”

I mean, that’s the reason the movie postulates. The dude is conflicted to do the right thing.
 

Gander

Banned
Why didn't the king just point out that KM was the guy who broke out Sonic Screw Hand and shot him with the grenade launcher and therefore should be imprisoned? Instead he just stood there in silence while his best friend turned on him. Such a loophole in the plot, B- movie.

It may have been guilt. T'Challa knew his cousin was just as much royalty as he was and would have had a very different life had he been allowed to grow up in Wakanda. If you ever had family you care not doing as well as you sometimes you feel that guilt.
 
Why didn't the king just point out that KM was the guy who broke out Sonic Screw Hand and shot him with the grenade launcher and therefore should be imprisoned? Instead he just stood there in silence while his best friend turned on him. Such a loophole in the plot, B- movie.

Cause challa is a punk.

What kinda "king" who has the most advanced tech in the world ends up fighting along side the avengers instead of thanos? LBR
 
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