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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Translated via DeepL:

The expiry of credit balances and clauses according to which parents have to bear all costs incurred by purchases made by their underage children were criticised.

The most important facts in brief:

• In the opinion of the NRW consumer advice centre, the regulation on the expiry of credit on the PSN account, according to which topped-up euros must be used within 24 months according to the terms and conditions, is hostile to customers.
• In addition, clauses were criticised according to which parents must bear all costs incurred by purchases made by their underage children.

Like other console manufacturers, Sony Interactive Entertainment Europe Limited offers its own online service for its PlayStation 4. Via the PlayStation Network (PSN), customers of the market leader can purchase digital content such as games or films for download or streaming, exchange messages or play multiplayer games.

In our opinion, a large number of the General Terms and Conditions (GTC) used by Sony in this context are not compatible with the law and are therefore invalid. For example, the regulation on the expiry of credit on the PSN account is hostile to customers. According to the T&Cs, Euros topped up must be used within 24 months. Otherwise they may be confiscated by Sony. This is a rule that can also be found with other players in the industry. We have also criticised clauses according to which parents must bear all costs incurred by purchases made by their underage children. This primarily affects games as well as in-app purchases.

The presentation of the statutory right of cancellation when purchasing digital content is also worthy of criticism in the GTC. For example, there is no indication that customers must expressly agree before making a purchase that they will lose their right of cancellation if they start the download.

The warning is intended to persuade Sony to stop using the criticised clauses in future. If the industry leader refuses to do so, it may have to go to court.

PlayStation-Network: Verbraucherzentrale NRW mahnt Sony ab | Verbraucherzentrale NRW

Moniert wurden der Verfall von Guthaben sowie Klauseln, nach denen Eltern pauschal alle Kosten tragen müssen, die durch Käufe ihrer minderjährigen Kinder entstehen.

www.verbraucherzentrale.nrw

 

[Banjo64]

yes. digital market is 30 years behind in terms of consumer rights. companies are exploiting it big time.

 

[GHG]

I had no idea digital credit had an expiry date of 24 months on their store.

That's absurd.

 

[MALpractice311]

The first point, two year expiration of funds, I agree with. There's no reason they should expire in your account.

The second point, the ability to undo purchases made by children without their parents permission, I'm less convinced by. Maybe don't give your child access to your credit card? What's to stop any household with a child from saying "My kid did it. I want my money back"?

 

[Kilau]

I was hoping they were going after PS Premium being balls.

 

[GHG]

I was hoping they were going after PS Premium being balls.

"I don't like a product" doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the regulators, that's up to you as a consumer. The solution is simple - stop subscribing.

 

[BennyBlanco]

So after 24 months they just confiscate your store credit? Uhh why?

 

[GHG]

So after 24 months they just confiscate your store credit? Uhh why?

 

[Guilty_AI]

What's to stop any household with a child from saying "My kid did it. I want my money back"?

Abuse. It'd be very obvious if they were abusing this rule.
"My kid did it. I want my money back!!!"
"Ma'am thats the fifth time just this month, i may have to contact my superiors"

 

[Fake]

Why do credits expire lmao.

 

[Guilty_AI]

So after 24 months they just confiscate your store credit? Uhh why?

I was shocked by that too. No wonder console bros hate the digital market so much if this is what Sony/MS/Nintendo forces them to put up with.

 

[Three]

The first point, two year expiration of funds, I agree with. There's no reason they should expire in your account.

The second point, the ability to undo purchases made by children without their parents permission, I'm less convinced by. Maybe don't give your child access to your credit card? What's to stop any household with a child from saying "My kid did it. I want my money back"?

Yeah the credit expiry is complete bullshit there is no reason why funds deposited should expire. Imagine a bank where your deposited unused money just disappears after a while. For the second though you have child accounts and parental controls you can use on the system. Unless there is a law where all digital purchases should have accidental purchases refunded regardless of any safeguards I'm not sure what the issue is there.

 

[Astray]

It's supreme bullshit that credits expire.

 

[Kilau]

"I don't like a product" doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the regulators, that's up to you as a consumer. The solution is simple - stop subscribing.

 

[Banjo64]

The first point, two year expiration of funds, I agree with. There's no reason they should expire in your account.

The second point, the ability to undo purchases made by children without their parents permission, I'm less convinced by. Maybe don't give your child access to your credit card? What's to stop any household with a child from saying "My kid did it. I want my money back"?

Probably no a case of giving your child access to your credit card in most circumstances.

More likely a case of giving them a phone to watch Netflix in the car and they click on a game and start spamming buy.

Whether you attribute blame to the parent for that is your call but it’s hardly practical to not have any payment details saved on your phone and it’s also not realistic to never ever let your child get their hands on your phone, even for a minute.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I had no idea that credits expire? lmao...ridiculous

 

[GHG]

The second point, the ability to undo purchases made by children without their parents permission, I'm less convinced by. Maybe don't give your child access to your credit card? What's to stop any household with a child from saying "My kid did it. I want my money back"?

You can set it up so that the console requires a pin/password with every password. Being an ignorant/absent parent isn't a valid excuse.

 

[Elysium44]

I was shocked by that too. No wonder console bros hate the digital market so much if this is what Sony/MS/Nintendo forces them to put up with.

Microsoft credit doesn't expire IIRC, except for that which was obtained via their rewards scheme.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I had no idea that credits expire? lmao...ridiculous

I believe it's those top-up cards that you purchase from retailers that have a 1 or 2-year expiry time after they are activated at the sale point and not redeemed on your PSN account within that period. However, I don't think that the PSN wallet funds themselves expire; it's just legalese from Sony to cover some edge cases I presume.

 

[Mownoc]

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

No mention of any wallet expirey period and can't find anyone else saying that either. Wallet codes expire 12 months after being purchased if they are not redeemed but that's the only expiry I'm aware of.

I don't know what they mean by this either "The presentation of the statutory right of cancellation when purchasing digital content is also worthy of criticism in the GTC. For example, there is no indication that customers must expressly agree before making a purchase that they will lose their right of cancellation if they start the download."

I have to tick a box agreeing I lose my right to refund every time I buy something on PS5.

 

[Three]

I had no idea that credits expire? lmao...ridiculous

I don't think it actually does (I've had credit on there for close to 5 yrs) but they've put that loophole of stealing your money in their ToS to cover their ass and thankfully regulators are calling them out on how unlawful it is to have it there.

 

[Saber]

And with that every "little detail", like credits expiring, they abuse clients to extract evey dime of them in every opportunity. I say good riddance, hope that escalates so them stop being corporate bastards.

 

[magnumpy]

this whole pay to play online nonsense is pure BS IMO

just give me good old fashioned offline vidya games like my gran pappy used to play back in the olden days ª{•̃̾_•̃̾}ª

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

The first point, two year expiration of funds, I agree with. There's no reason they should expire in your account.

The second point, the ability to undo purchases made by children without their parents permission, I'm less convinced by. Maybe don't give your child access to your credit card? What's to stop any household with a child from saying "My kid did it. I want my money back"?

Or just put a password and thats all.

 

[Three]

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

No mention of any wallet expirey period and can't find anyone else saying that either. Wallet codes expire 12 months after being purchased if they are not redeemed but that's the only expiry I'm aware of.

I don't know what they mean by this either "The presentation of the statutory right of cancellation when purchasing digital content is also worthy of criticism in the GTC. For example, there is no indication that customers must expressly agree before making a purchase that they will lose their right of cancellation if they start the download."

I have to tick a box agreeing I lose my right to refund every time I buy something on PS5.

Maybe it had already been updated before the results of this investigation were published or the GTC were investigating past offences.

 

[winjer]

This is just plain theft.
We really need strong legislation for digital goods, micro-transactions, lootboxes, etc.

 

[adamsapple]

According to the T&Cs, Euros topped up must be used within 24 months. Otherwise they may be confiscated by Sony.

Excuse me?

 

[Lord Malachite]

I can get 100% get behind stopping any and all platforms from being able to just confiscate funds in your wallet by virtue of them simply being "old". As a PlayStation only gamer, that should absolutely be struck down.

And I'm 100% against this crusade that some major corporation is responsible if people's children run amok. It's called parenting. When you have an underage child, you are responsible for their actions, especially financially. If your nine year old breaks a bunch of windows on your neighbor's house, guess who is going to be held accountable in small claims court? Hint: It's not the nine year old or the people whose windows were broken. If you're such an ineffective parent that you're giving your children access to your financial accounts and not using the built-in features to specifically stop that from happening, that's on you. Hell, if you're too lazy to create an account for your child that blocks their access to inappropriate content and from spending money in the store, at the very least your PlayStation comes with the ability to lock it down with a PIN--mine is setup that when I turn it on, I have to enter a PIN every single time just to access my account. And I have no children. It's called basic safety SMH.

 

[Zathalus]

The inability to easy refund games, lack of alternatives to purchase keys, and being completely unable to change your PSN region are the worst parts of PSN for me

 

[DrFigs]

Yeah the return policy is insane. If you download a game, you can't get a refund on it, even if you haven't played it for a second. it's extremely unreasonable.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

The solution is simple - stop subscribing.

It isn’t that simple. Sony bundles a borderline essential service (multiplayer) with other unnecessary services.

Imagine the only dentist in town charging triple the expected cost for a routine checkup bundled with other services you do not need, and not providing a standalone checkup service. Do you just stop going to the dentist?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Your credit expiring is some real anti consumer shit, Sony.

 

[GHG]

It isn’t that simple. Sony bundles a borderline essential service (multiplayer) with other unnecessary services.

Imagine the only dentist in town charging triple the expected cost for a routine checkup bundled with other services you do not need, and not providing a standalone checkup service. Do you just stop going to the dentist?

He specified the premium tier, it is that simple.

If you want a discussion around how you shouldn't have to pay for online at all then I'm 100% with you which is why I refuse to subscribe anymore. But again, it's far from essential and everyone has the capacity to vote with their wallet and play on platforms that don't require you to have to pay to play online.

 

[gokurho]

Translated via DeepL:

PlayStation-Network: Verbraucherzentrale NRW mahnt Sony ab | Verbraucherzentrale NRW

Moniert wurden der Verfall von Guthaben sowie Klauseln, nach denen Eltern pauschal alle Kosten tragen müssen, die durch Käufe ihrer minderjährigen Kinder entstehen.

www.verbraucherzentrale.nrw

article from five years ago
Why.....

"Kundenfeindliches" Playstation Network: Verbraucherzentrale NRW mahnt Sony ab

Wegen kundenfeindlicher Klauseln im Playstation Network hat die Verbraucherzentrale NRW Sony abgemahnt. Es geht unter anderem um den Verfall von Guthaben.

www.heise.de

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

article from five years ago
Why.....

"Kundenfeindliches" Playstation Network: Verbraucherzentrale NRW mahnt Sony ab

Wegen kundenfeindlicher Klauseln im Playstation Network hat die Verbraucherzentrale NRW Sony abgemahnt. Es geht unter anderem um den Verfall von Guthaben.

www.heise.de

Hmm, you're right. It said updated on Nov 29 in the article but now the article itself has been taken down. Weird... Anyway, Imma request a from the mods I guess.