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[Deleted member 125677]

If there is no room for games like W101 in todays market we deserve to be bombarded with shit like BoF6 and Layton 7

Yes, I am salty. A motherfucking supernova of salt!

 

[XDDX]

Prediction League September, 2013

Predict how much these titles will sell in the month (from Aug 26 to Sep 29):

[3DS] Monster Hunter 4 (16 days) - 2,240,000
[PS3] JoJo's All Star Battle (32 days) - 460,000
[PS3] Final Fantasy XIV ARR (34 days) - 105,000
[PS3+360] Lost Planet 3 (32 days) - 40,000
[PS3+PSV] Sen no Kiseki (4 days) - 80,000
[WIU] Zelda Wind Waker HD (4 days) - 70,000
[3DS] Little Battlers eXperience Wars (4 days) - 40,000
[3DS] Hardware (35 days) - 435,000

 

[test_account]

If there is no room for games like W101 in todays market we deserve to be bombarded with shit like BoF6 and Layton 7

Yes, I am salty. A motherfucking supernova of salt!

Being on only one platform that not many people own yet will hinder the sales (or at least it limits the possibility to reach more people), so its hard to say if a game like this could have its place in the gaming market in general.

 

[Mpl90]

If there is no room for games like W101 in todays market we deserve to be bombarded with shit like BoF6 and Layton 7

Yes, I am salty. A motherfucking supernova of salt!

W101 could have sold more. Much more I'd say.
The problem's not the game. Or better, not just the game. It's WiiU's stigma, it's its fault.

 

[Scum]

Yup. Let's face it: the main problem is the fucking console with its huge price tag that gets game that are not being advertised because it seems like Nintendo likes to spend its money on a secret space rocket instead

I always tried to be fair to Nintendo, but that a game of one of my favorite studios is bombing this hard is their fault and I'm pretty annoyed by their stance - yes, PG makes niche games to some extent, but it was Ninty's job to create a healthy user base and they just don't want to

Niche game for niche console I suppose. Can't wait for the next Nintendo console with no attachment to the "Wii" brand



You have good humor! IGN should hire you

:lol

Seriously, though. I don't like the idea of a letter branded product, but maybe it's time for Nintendo U -> NiU [New ]....

 

[Deleted member 125677]

I blame society

 

[Orgen]

Taking into account that blogs like sinobi (et al.) have been proven to be credible....with those blogs reporting a <30% sell-through on a ~30,000 shipment for TW101, it is literally impossible for Famitsu / Media Create / Dengeki to report such a high figure.

I imagine the absolute upper bound for TW 101 sales would be somewhere around 12,000, with real figures hovering around 8,000-9,000.

Neogaf: Believe

(Yes, I know that you're right but I choose to believe... Like the 300.000 digital sales from Brain Training, right Chris? ;D)

 

[schuelma]

W101 could have sold more. Much more I'd say.
The problem's not the game. Or better, not just the game. It's WiiU's stigma, it's its fault.

I think it could have conceivably sold well on PS3.

I don't think Nintendo knows how to handle this type of game, and I'm skeptical it would have done much better on the Wii, even with a larger user base.

 

[spatenfloot]

The number everyone really wants is the number of people in the Pokemon centers.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Well, some people are pinging pg_jp about having a lot of trouble finding it, so I think it's going to do better than some people are saying in this thread.

Maybe he should check his local Yodobashi.

http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/product/stock/100000001001799273/index.html

 

[Magicpaint]

I think it could have conceivably sold well on PS3.

I don't think Nintendo knows how to handle this type of game, and I'm skeptical it would have done much better on the Wii, even with a larger user base.

I'm honestly not sure. I think a lot of the problem with this game is it doesn't have visible selling points from afar.

 

[Scum]

I think it could have conceivably sold well on PS3.

I don't think Nintendo knows how to handle this type of game, and I'm skeptical it would have done much better on the Wii, even with a larger user base.

Same can be said of the console as well. :lol
The old buggers at NCL that Iwata's responsible for have to go.

 

[schuelma]

I'm honestly not sure. I think a lot of the problem with this game is it doesn't have visible selling points from afar.

I agree that W101 is not an easy sell (hell, just look at the demo impressions), but I think that audience pays more attention to Platinum and those types of games and I think Sony knows how to better market those types of titles (i.e, start advertising more than 10 days before release).

 

[Brainiac 8]

A game by Platinum failing to be a hit? NO WAI!

 

[Magicpaint]

I agree that W101 is not an easy sell (hell, just look at the demo impressions), but I think that audience pays more attention to Platinum and those types of games and I think Sony knows how to better market those types of titles (i.e, start advertising more than 10 days before release).

Honestly judging from aesthetics alone, I feel this is more at home on a Nintendo console than a Sony one from a selling standpoint (though PS3 of course has the userbase advantage). We've seen Killer Is Dead flop miserably but if that was on WiiU I bet most of us would be thinking it'd do much better on a PS3. Even as someone who vists the forums frequently, W101 was a hard sell for me.

 

[Glass Rebel]

First half of 2014 will be really "interesting" for the Wii U. If Smash and Mario Kart fail to reignite the platform maybe we can finally stop saying that the hybrid platform makes no sense for Nintendo.

 

[KillerTravis]

I agree that W101 is not an easy sell (hell, just look at the demo impressions), but I think that audience pays more attention to Platinum and those types of games and I think Sony knows how to better market those types of titles (i.e, start advertising more than 10 days before release).

You are saying this as if Sony games don't bomb left and right all the time. Do you even remember the reactions from when the game was originally unveiled? It was a tough sell since the beginning.

 

[Scum]

First half of 2014 will be really "interesting" for the Wii U. If Smash and Mario Kart fail to reignite the platform maybe we can finally stop saying that the hybrid platform makes no sense for Nintendo.

Well, if it's not a Premium NiU £199.99/£239.99 with Mario Kart or Smash Bros. equivalent in Yen & Dollars by early next year, then yeah.

Edit: I'm not a fan of the hybrid idea, to be honest.

 

[Mario007]

First half of 2014 will be really "interesting" for the Wii U. If Smash and Mario Kart fail to reignite the platform maybe we can finally stop saying that the hybrid platform makes no sense for Nintendo.

Making a hybrid is a horrible idea considering they're being cornered in the mobile market too and the strong japanese support seems to move to mobile nowadays.

 

[Brainiac 8]

I agree that W101 is not an easy sell (hell, just look at the demo impressions), but I think that audience pays more attention to Platinum and those types of games and I think Sony knows how to better market those types of titles (i.e, start advertising more than 10 days before release).

Like every smash hit Platinum has released in the past....oh wait...

 

[ZhugeEX]

This might be a dumb question.

But is there any type of online database anywhere with a full list of updated Japanese sales.

Obviously once the game is out for a month or so it is no longer in the top 20 and we no longer have access to weekly sales numbers or LTD sales numbers. Is there any famitsu tracker that is constantly updated every week with a list of every game and it's LTD sales.

So far the only ones i found seem to stop in either 2011 or 2012 and there is very very limited data for 2013 sales.

 

[Bald Cleft]

[3DS] Monster Hunter 4 (16 days) - 2,500,000
[PS3] JoJo's All Star Battle (32 days) - 450,000
[PS3] Final Fantasy XIV ARR (34 days) - 140,000
[PS3+360] Lost Planet 3 (32 days) - 22,000
[PS3+PSV] Sen no Kiseki (4 days) - 80,000
[WIU] Zelda Wind Waker HD (4 days) - 135,000
[3DS] Little Battlers eXperience Wars (4 days) - 40,000
[3DS] Hardware (35 days) - 500,000

 

[L Thammy]

Pretty sure that the two problems facing W101 are poor advertising and the stagnant Wii U. It honestly might have been better for the game to release immediately after Pikmin 3; people might have been more likely to have just finished the game and be itching for another thing to play.

Last minute ad campaigns seem like bad ideas in general. A dedicated Nintendo Direct does not fix that. Also, the Wonderful 101 is a unique game that's hard to learn and it's a new IP on top of that. This is a game that needed more advertising than normal, and it's entirely Nintendo's fault for missing that.

I think it is just very easy just to blame "Wii U owners". I've already said this before, but if this game fail it wont be only Wii U owner's fault, it is every gamer's fault. I'm not expecting people to have spare money to buy a console to play TW101, but if it is a problem it is a problem with gaming in general, and not only exclusive to Wii U owners.

Obviously, I'd rather the game would do better, but I don't think it ever makes sense to blame consumers. Consumers are the most predictable thing in the industry, I think - if they see something they want, they buy it. That isn't something that changes over time.

Similarly, there will always be great games that don't sell. People who develop an interest in cult titles need to develop a thick skin for that.

 

[schuelma]

You are saying this as if Sony games don't bomb left and right all the time. Do you even remember the reactions from when the game was originally unveiled? It was a tough sell since the beginning.

I..I even said it wasn't an easy sell in the quote you posted?

I think you can say that the sales potential of W101 was always limited, but still concede that it should sell more than 7-8K in its first week.

 

[schuelma]

Last minute ad campaigns seem like bad ideas in general. A dedicated Nintendo Direct does not fix that. Also, the Wonderful 101 is a unique game that's hard to learn and it's a new IP on top of that. This is a game that needed more advertising than normal, and it's entirely Nintendo's fault for missing that.

.

Yes. Bingo. This wasn't Pikmin 3 with a built in fanbase or a casual title that people would pick up on a whim.

This needed to be sold to the core gamer months and months ago.

 

[Aquamarine]

This might be a dumb question.

But is there any type of online database anywhere with a full list of updated Japanese sales.

Obviously once the game is out for a month or so it is no longer in the top 20 and we no longer have access to weekly sales numbers or LTD sales numbers. Is there any famitsu tracker that is constantly updated every week with a list of every game and it's LTD sales.

So far the only ones i found seem to stop in either 2011 or 2012 and there is very very limited data for 2013 sales.

If there was, the holding companies of those trackers (ASCII Media Works, Enterbrain, Media Create) would have them shut down immediately.

The whole purpose behind giving out sales data for free is to advertise their paid services. If they gave out every game's sales figures every week, there would be no reason to purchase their research.

However, Famitsu does occasionally give out lists of more comprehensive data, like a Top 100 report every half year.

 

[Nirolak]

Generally TW101 got hit with the double whammy of:
1.) Notably hard to sell game.
2.) Tremendous platform/demographic mismatch.

 

[Kouriozan]

I wonder what Nintendo is thinking, it's like they are just waiting for Wii U to die.
At this rate even Mario won't sell because of a bad momentum.
That console is really cursed.

 

[allan-bh]

I expected that Wolderful 101 would bomb, but not this much.

 

[Mpl90]

Making a hybrid is a horrible idea considering they're being cornered in the mobile market too and the strong japanese support seems to move to mobile nowadays.

The Japanese support in general is still very strong for 3DS, though, with big titles, as well as mid-level titles and some niche stuff. And 3rd party titles sell very well on the platform, so there isn't even a problem of sales like, I don't know, the Wii.
Yeah, many iOS titles could've been DS titles in the past, but the big majority of them were little / very little titles: these are the titles right now not that present on the platform.

 

[Scum]

Generally TW101 got hit with the double whammy of:
1.) Notably hard to sell game.
2.) Tremendous platform/demographic mismatch.

The second one is the worse. I still say NCL should concentrate on trying to sell their shit to "Everyone". Wonderful 101 should have down as a "core" game sold to core gamers months ago, like schuelma stated. All this "We'll show it off a week and a half before we sell it" nonsense has to stop.

I wonder what Nintendo is thinking, it's like they are just waiting for Wii U to die.
At this rate even Mario won't sell because of a bad momentum.
That console is really cursed.

Iwata's settled for as much money as he can get from the 3DS before moving onto the WiiU.

 

[BlackJace]

Ugh, I just know someone will make a separate thread to highlight and engage in schadenfreude about just how badly it sold, just like Yakuza.

Won't be pretty.

I can't help but be a bit upset at Nintendo for not pushing the title more. I appreciate them allowing Kamiya to work on the projects he wanted, but they have to understand the a new, unproven IP is not Mario, and will not sell like hotcakes because of brand name. People needed to be sold on the game months ago, not weeks ago.

Time's tickin for the Wii U, Nintendo, these moves aren't cutting it.

 

[StreetsAhead]

I wonder if the problem is that a number of retailers just didn't even stock it.

Bingo, found it on my third store. With only a 30K shipment, it doesn't surprise me.

I understand that a lot of people are excited for W101, but did anyone honestly expect this game to sell even decently? It's as niche as can be; perfect for GAF, not for the general market.

Dat heat wave.

This week it was the torrential rains. I know we joke, but this year's summer has been ridiculously hot.

Generally TW101 got hit with the double whammy of:
1.) Notably hard to sell game.
2.) Tremendous platform/demographic mismatch.

Bayonetta 2, X, & SMT X FE are all doomed.

 

[schuelma]

Bayonetta 2, X, & SMT X FE are all doomed.

I actually suspect Nintendo is going to push X extremely hard in Japan.

I don't think it is going to be a huge success, but given how prominently the teasers have been in the Direct's, I think Nintendo is going to treat it like a blockbuster.

 

[L Thammy]

Is it really a demographic issue? As far as I know, Super Sentai is still popular with children (who I presume Mario is also popular with), and Kamen Rider's revived now. I think they even air back-to--back. I would imagine it would also have nostalgia value to people who grew up in the '80s as well.

I find it hard to buy the idea that there's a huge audience that only buys the core Nintendo titles. That audience obviously isn't on the Wii U despite Mario being there, and third party sales are pretty good on the 3DS as far as I know. Rather, I think people are drawn in by the huge names and then give other games their interest while the system holds their attention.

Basically, I think Wii U owners are currently playing games on their 3DSes and PS3s. Nintendo has to draw their attention back in before any game on the system can succeed.

Pikmin 2's return is a similar thing: when the Pikmin franchise has people's attention, it sells more.

 

[the thoroughbred]

It seems like Nintendo market after the product has made some money. So they use the money made to further market the product. Never investing before it has proven its worth. In the case of W101. That's not going to happen. Damn shame. It think it's better to sell 500k and break even (lots spent on marketing) than to sell 30k.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

First week sellthrough

[3DS] Conception II: Shichisei no Michibiki to Mazuru no Akumu > 30% (4 days)
[WIU] The Wonderful 101 < 30% (2 days)

So <10k opening....not like this no. I knew it was going to bomb but this badly. Lego City did better than that and this game had its own direct. Now I really fear for Bayonetta's performance.

So everyone knew from the beginning W101 would sell 10k first week. Since everything is so obvious for Wii U how much will the system seller 3D World sell?

I'm sure only a couple people predicted it was going to open with 10k or less. People saying we knew it was going to bomb are correct but not as badly as this.

First half of 2014 will be really "interesting" for the Wii U. If Smash and Mario Kart fail to reignite the platform maybe we can finally stop saying that the hybrid platform makes no sense for Nintendo.

If the WiiU fails why does that mean a hybrid platform is the next best option. Maybe they should try and get decent third party support before trying any crazy ideas.

 

[DaBoss]

It baffles me that Pikmin is a series that actually sells. TW101 looks more fun than Pikmin to me. :/

Just saying that due to the confusion that some appear to have between TW101 and the Pikmin series. Though they are both different genres and I prefer action games over RTS games.

Maybe they should try and get decent third party support before trying any crazy ideas.

You say that like they don't try to.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Making a hybrid is a horrible idea considering they're being cornered in the mobile market too and the strong japanese support seems to move to mobile nowadays.

It's more desirable than this situation of having a platform that's completely dead in the water and continues to be a huge money-sink. Considering Nintendo's size and output, focusing their entire development and publishing arm on a single target platform would have huge advantages. They could basically fill every software drought themselves. With the 3DS already requiring Wii-level teams for their games it will only get "worse" and you can bet your left nut that they won't give up the handheld market as easily. It's the one market they are still highly competitive in.

The way mobile tech is developing it won't be hard to put out a powerful handheld at a reasonable price in a few years. And looking at upcoming Wii U games right now we're quickly reaching a point where Nintendo doesn't "need" more power to impress with their games.

If the WiiU fails why does that mean a hybrid platform is the next best option. Maybe they should try and get decent third party support before trying any crazy ideas.

Where do you expect them to get that third-party support? Out of thin air? Where do they go after the Wii U? PS4-level hardware so they're lagging behind again? PS5-level so they can try two generational jumps at once when they spectacularly failed to do just one?

 

[the thoroughbred]

What Nintendo is doing with the WiiU is really weird. It's like they are waiting for something. Either they know it won't succeed and that they should just save as much as they can or they are waiting for something to happen before they push it. Like something in economics perhaps or the competition to come out. It just is very weird. They have enough money and even if they didn't I am sure the banks would finance them. How much is a marketing budget. They should've been using this time to sell to get that lead.

 

[Scum]

Bayonetta 2, X, & SMT X FE are all doomed.

I actually think these will sell quite well if they're previewed long enough and well enough. Locking them away and showing & advertising them a week before release on the other hand is not going to do anyone any good at all.

Is it really a demographic issue? As far as I know, Super Sentai is still popular with children (who I presume Mario is also popular with), and Kamen Rider's revived now. I think they even air back-to--back. I would imagine it would also have nostalgia value to people who grew up in the '80s as well.

I find it hard to buy the idea that there's a huge audience that only buys the core Nintendo titles. That audience obviously isn't on the Wii U despite Mario being there, and third party sales are pretty good on the 3DS as far as I know. Rather, I think people are drawn in by the huge names and then give other games their interest while the system holds their attention.

Basically, I think Wii U owners are currently playing games on their 3DSes and PS3s. Nintendo has to draw their attention back in before any game on the system can succeed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Iwata, if you're reading this (and I know you are), it's high time you tossed out that motley crew of old gits on your Board in drafted in youngsters who can help you out. Or else you'll be out of a job before you know it.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It's more desirable than this situation of having a platform that's completely dead in the water and continues to be a huge money-sink. Considering Nintendo's size and output, focusing their entire development and publishing arm on a single target platform would have huge advantages. They could basically fill every software drought themselves. With the 3DS already requiring Wii-level teams for their games it will only get "worse" and you can bet your left nut that they won't give up the handheld market as easily. It's the one market they are still highly competitive in.

The way mobile tech is developing it won't be hard to put out a powerful handheld at a reasonable price in a few years. And looking at upcoming Wii U games right now we're quickly reaching a point where Nintendo doesn't "need" more power to impress with their games.



Where do you expect them to get that third-party support? Out of thin air? Where do they go after the Wii U? PS4-level hardware so they're lagging behind again? PS5-level so they can try two generational jumps at once when they spectacularly failed to do just one?

Well its all about risks. Do you think Nintendo is going to risk having substantially weaker hardware next gen? Who knows but they should ask devs. They don't have to listen to everything they say but take on board what they expect.

It baffles me that Pikmin is a series that actually sells. TW101 looks more fun than Pikmin to me. :/

Just saying that due to the confusion that some appear to have between TW101 and the Pikmin series. Though they are both different genres and I prefer action games over RTS games.



You say that like they don't try to.

If this is them trying then my god. There is always room for improvement. Nintendo should of seen this coming after the Wii. They should know third parties would not port next gen games to their system yet they went the same route.

 

[DaBoss]

I think Nintendo should take notes on what Sony and MS are doing this upcoming gen. Realize the most important markets for consoles is not Japan. That's really what they should do. They should become more globalized. They operate "globally", but don't seem to think globally.

 

[L Thammy]

You're all right on the money. Basically, if Nintendo acts like they operate in a bubble, they cannot expect anyone outside of that bubble to cooperate. They need to realize that they need to - to a certain degree - keep up with the Joneses as far as console design is concerned.

I really wonder if Nintendo has anything in place to receive input from third-parties. Club Nintendo is there to gather information from consumers, they should honestly be doing the same thing for publishers.

 

[BlackJace]

SMT and Fire Emblem are pretty popular series, especially in Japan. I see no reason why the crossover wouldn't do well.

I suspect X will be pushed by Nintendo pretty hard. I think they recognize that that type of game could strike a goldmine if they market it right.

I'm pretty lost on Bayonetta 2. I want to say TW 101 is foreshadowing, but then again, Bayo did decently in Japan anyway.

 

[Scum]

I think Nintendo should take notes on what Sony and MS are doing this upcoming gen. Realize the most important markets for consoles is not Japan. That's really what they should do. They should become more globalized. They operate "globally", but don't seem to think globally.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Iwata, if you're reading this (and I know you are), it's high time you tossed out that motley crew of old gits on your Board in drafted in youngsters who can help you out. Or else you'll be out of a job before you know it.

Time to remove the shackles and get NoE and NoA more involved.

 

[Aquamarine]

What Nintendo is doing with the WiiU is really weird. It's like they are waiting for something. Either they know it won't succeed and that they should just save as much as they can or they are waiting for something to happen before they push it. Like something in economics perhaps or the competition to come out. It just is very weird. They have enough money and even if they didn't I am sure the banks would finance them. How much is a marketing budget. They should've been using this time to sell to get that lead.

You're right...it does seem like they've put the console in stasis. The old Nintendo would aggressively be pushing their console and immediately reacting to trends. For example, the N64 engaged in a very competitive price war with the PS1, and the GameCube only lasted six months before it got a 25% price cut.

But here we have Nintendo ignoring the PS4 that is only $50 more expensive than the Wii U's most visible model, no clear rush to aggressively promote their products, and a sustained complacency towards terribly low debuts.

Has there been a corporate shift at Nintendo? Are they realized what a grave mistake they've made and are planning to drop the console ala. Virtual Boy? Because Nintendo's tactics are very unbefitting of a company that actually wants to sell their products. In a way, it's like they've given up.

 

[DaBoss]

Yes, giving NOA and NOE more autonomy is something they should do. Though I feel like they've been experimenting with NOE in that regard with the dramatic change in release schedules and such where Europe is getting many games ahead of NA and even Japan in some instances and Europe is their weakest market, so that would be a good place to start I guess.

My guess is they are just going to see what actually releasing games for the system does. Which would be August for NA. They should already have the results for Europe and Japan.

Well its all about risks. Do you think Nintendo is going to risk having substantially weaker hardware next gen? Who knows but they should ask devs. They don't have to listen to everything they say but take on board what they expect.

If this is them trying then my god. There is always room for improvement. Nintendo should of seen this coming after the Wii. They should know third parties would not port next gen games to their system yet they went the same route.

You do know third-parties can just say no right? No matter how much they try, third-parties don't see a market there so it won't matter how much they try.

If they were to go beyond trying, they would pay for the ports and do it themselves, and at that point, they have to wonder if it is worth it. I'm not exactly sure if that is worth it. Maybe they can market that game heavily and show that there is a market for whatever audience that game is for.

You are also ignoring that Nintendo develops games and that is very important to Nintendo. They would basically had to have skipped a gen if they went with something that is as powerful as the PS4/XBO. And that would basically leave them in a position worse than they are now in terms of development schedule. It's why some have said once you exit the hardware race, you can't enter back in (without consequences).

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

You're right...it does seem like they've put the console in stasis. The old Nintendo would aggressively be pushing their console and immediately reacting to trends. For example, the N64 engaged in a very competitive price war with the PS1, and the GameCube only lasted six months before it got a 25% price cut.

But here we have Nintendo ignoring the PS4 that is only $50 more expensive than the Wii U's most visible model, no clear rush to aggressively promote their products, and a sustained complacency towards terribly low debuts.

Has there been a corporate shift at Nintendo? Are they realized what a grave mistake they've made and are planning to drop the console ala. Virtual Boy? Because Nintendo's tactics are very unbefitting of a company that actually wants to sell their products. In a way, it's like they've given up.

I thinks its more along the lines of profits. Can they afford a price cut and would the losses be worth it. They genuinely must believe their lineup is enough.

 

[Mr Swine]

I thinks its more along the lines of profits. Can they afford a price cut and would the losses be worth it. They genuinely must believe their lineup is enough.

Yeah, if they drop the price and they don't sell more Wii U's then they are loosing more money