Gaming Discussion
Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.
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SomeShitLord
Neo Member
It's an epic marketing ploy, if you think about it.
Cob32
Member
I agree with everything you said about CDPR. They’ve been really shady. However I think you’re being a bit harsh on the journalists (YouTube hype men aside).
I mean yes they could have refused review copies based on the rules but I think that a unrealistic when they have to earn living. As long as they give honest critique under the set rules and are transparent with the constraints they have, I think it’s fine to review.
What I would’ve like to see from journalists is to now do a separate review for console versions and get an accurate score up on the PS/XB metacritic page.
I mean yes they could have refused review copies based on the rules but I think that a unrealistic when they have to earn living. As long as they give honest critique under the set rules and are transparent with the constraints they have, I think it’s fine to review.
What I would’ve like to see from journalists is to now do a separate review for console versions and get an accurate score up on the PS/XB metacritic page.
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MrS
Banned
It's fucked. Reviews are no longer reliable resources for gamers. Games journalists/reviewers do the gig to network and/or get a job at a dev/publisher down the line - we now have countless examples of this. Can't trust them as a lot of them are scared to burn bridges and won't give honest reviews.
Great job btw OP. Sums up my feelings perfectly.
Great job btw OP. Sums up my feelings perfectly.
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I had zero faith this game could receive objective reviews. Half the journalists are glorified paid influencers the other half are scared to offend the ‘cdpr are transphobic Slav (slave) drivers’ crowd or are card carrying members of that crowd. I look forward to the 7 out of 10 from edge that I will concur with.
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Madflavor
Member
I have a crazy thought. Bear with me. What if, and I'm just speculating, but what if the reviewers who gave the game a high score, really felt it deserved a 9 or 10? What if the positives of the game greatly outweighed it's negatives, and that it's negatives didn't bother them as much as others?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I only trust gameolay footage, I have very specific tastes in games. A lot of people think stuff is amazing that I find unolayable. Ill know if I fuck with a game just based on gameplay footage alone.
I USED to really value user gameplay impressions, but with so many people not liking tlou 2 I don't even give a shit about forum opinions either lmao.
I USED to really value user gameplay impressions, but with so many people not liking tlou 2 I don't even give a shit about forum opinions either lmao.
GeorgPrime
Banned
All gaming journalists are just slaves to the developers. Doesnt matter where. They are literally paid marketing people but no one of them is a journalist.
You want to be real and independent? Build up a community, buy your own games and do reviews without relying on developers and let people support you on patreon.
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Gaming Discussion
Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.
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SlimeGooGoo
Banned
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Madflavor
Member
Didn't they not have access to the console version though? They only had the PC version at the time.
Mr Hyde
Member
Cyberpunk 2077 just reinforces my stance on never buy games day 1 and never read mainstream reviews, especially from the US. Following these simple rules saves me a lot of headache and a lot of money.
I love video games and want to support the industry, but a lot of it, and it's mostly the AAA-side of the business, has gone down the drain with unfinished games, mtx, biased media and other shady shit that sometimes they don't deserve any money upfront. If they are gonna fuck you, you can as well fuck them back.
Wait for sale, wait for complete editions that are fully patched and don't give clicks to journos that don't provide honest opinions or are riddled with politics.
I love video games and want to support the industry, but a lot of it, and it's mostly the AAA-side of the business, has gone down the drain with unfinished games, mtx, biased media and other shady shit that sometimes they don't deserve any money upfront. If they are gonna fuck you, you can as well fuck them back.
Wait for sale, wait for complete editions that are fully patched and don't give clicks to journos that don't provide honest opinions or are riddled with politics.
ruvikx
Banned
This "game" was ridiculously polarizing from minute one, with blind fanboys (CDPR can do no wrong), crazy antis (I'm talking the trans reset "people" with their insanity) & current year politics + corporate interests all intermingled into one giant shitshow where people had decided before release whether they'd like it or not.
But I have no respect for a developer which releases a product which is subpar on console versus the other open world titles on those consoles... whilst expecting people to swallow the 90 Metacritic propaganda. A game which runs/looks like shit & is selling well (without protest) = a can of worms where other devs & publishers will also serve us a shitcake without blinking.
Imagine if Arkham Knight PC players had been "okay" with the PC version of that Batman game five years ago? Yeah, I think not.
It's the smaller more important details (with permanent effects) which I notice, i.e. way more than the mere framerate, glitches, crashes & resolution problems which themselves should bury any title. For example when I see the details regarding how the cops & wanted system works (i.e. cops spawning from nowhere like retards), or how AI works in general... yeah, this this is going to age pretty badly no matter how many ray traced reflections the pc guys throw at this thing.
That's an example of minute to minute gameplay which all amount of rose-tinted-glasses cannot fix.
But I have no respect for a developer which releases a product which is subpar on console versus the other open world titles on those consoles... whilst expecting people to swallow the 90 Metacritic propaganda. A game which runs/looks like shit & is selling well (without protest) = a can of worms where other devs & publishers will also serve us a shitcake without blinking.
Imagine if Arkham Knight PC players had been "okay" with the PC version of that Batman game five years ago? Yeah, I think not.
It's the smaller more important details (with permanent effects) which I notice, i.e. way more than the mere framerate, glitches, crashes & resolution problems which themselves should bury any title. For example when I see the details regarding how the cops & wanted system works (i.e. cops spawning from nowhere like retards), or how AI works in general... yeah, this this is going to age pretty badly no matter how many ray traced reflections the pc guys throw at this thing.
That's an example of minute to minute gameplay which all amount of rose-tinted-glasses cannot fix.
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Northeastmonk
Gold Member
My PS4 copy (being played on PS5) has had a couple glitches, but nothing making it unplayable or less enjoyable. It’s not enough to go on a rant about it. I had a party member NPC get stuck inside a building that I couldn’t enter. I don’t get why they didn’t make a current gen version of this game. They knew the new consoles were launching. It wasn’t exactly like they released a year or two ago.
I wouldn’t rate it a super low score though. If I cared that much about 3090 graphics or if I didn’t have a PS5 then I might say more. I have had a good time with it after 10 hours or so.
I am at that state where I’m not anticipating bugs, but I know it’s a possibility. That bug about the party member made me start to save twice. That’s been as bad as it’s gotten for me at least.
Reviews are going to be done by people who need the attention to stay good within their medium. At least for the smaller channels out there. People don’t want to raise red flags when they need the views.
I have to wonder if they outsourced any tech engineers to work on this game or if it was all done in house.
I wouldn’t rate it a super low score though. If I cared that much about 3090 graphics or if I didn’t have a PS5 then I might say more. I have had a good time with it after 10 hours or so.
I am at that state where I’m not anticipating bugs, but I know it’s a possibility. That bug about the party member made me start to save twice. That’s been as bad as it’s gotten for me at least.
Reviews are going to be done by people who need the attention to stay good within their medium. At least for the smaller channels out there. People don’t want to raise red flags when they need the views.
I have to wonder if they outsourced any tech engineers to work on this game or if it was all done in house.
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THEAP99
Banned
Cyberpunk 2077 a game hyped to the moon and back that's supposed to be a next-generation groundbreaking open-world action-adventure story is probably going to drop to an 89 on Metacritic and lose it's must play badge amidst all the bugs and tacked on open world.
I hope a valuable lesson is taught to these execs about overpromising, overhyping, and misleading marketing.
Sony, Microsoft, and CD Projekt Red... somebody needs to be held accountable for allowing misleading juiced-up PC footage to be allowed on their console stores when the final game on the console doesn't represent that.
Another thing, it's absolutely disgusting the disservice being done to people with bad internet or data caps. Cyberpunk 2077 is borderline unplayable on the gold master disc alone. I do NOT understand how Sony or Microsoft approved it in the state that it was on the disc. It should require online or on the disc say "Patches Required for functional experience" if they want to be real with consumers.
One way CD PROJEKT RED can earn respect back from offline gamers and many other gamers is by allowing them to refund the disc version and then sending them a more polished master gold disc version.
AND I HOPE, I HOPE, all publishers learn in the future, to NOT FOCUS ON SOCIAL INFLUENCERS, MARKETING, and CELEBRITIES in video games without the nuts and bolts of the actual world they're building and helping up is in a DIRE state. Shit like this is why this industry is going down the shitter. I am disappointed to be a polish-american right now.
I hope a valuable lesson is taught to these execs about overpromising, overhyping, and misleading marketing.
Sony, Microsoft, and CD Projekt Red... somebody needs to be held accountable for allowing misleading juiced-up PC footage to be allowed on their console stores when the final game on the console doesn't represent that.
Another thing, it's absolutely disgusting the disservice being done to people with bad internet or data caps. Cyberpunk 2077 is borderline unplayable on the gold master disc alone. I do NOT understand how Sony or Microsoft approved it in the state that it was on the disc. It should require online or on the disc say "Patches Required for functional experience" if they want to be real with consumers.
One way CD PROJEKT RED can earn respect back from offline gamers and many other gamers is by allowing them to refund the disc version and then sending them a more polished master gold disc version.
AND I HOPE, I HOPE, all publishers learn in the future, to NOT FOCUS ON SOCIAL INFLUENCERS, MARKETING, and CELEBRITIES in video games without the nuts and bolts of the actual world they're building and helping up is in a DIRE state. Shit like this is why this industry is going down the shitter. I am disappointed to be a polish-american right now.
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mikefrails
Banned
A review should mention whatever the writer wants but I agree that a studio should cover their ass if they’re producing a game that simply does not look great in it’s current form. They’re trying to sell the parts of the game that are good.
NullZ3r0
Banned
This is the state of the media in general. Politicians and corporations realize that access is everything. If they don't like how they're being covered they won't give you access. If you don't get access, you don't get views.
Politics is worse in the US where one party literally owns the media.
Politics is worse in the US where one party literally owns the media.
Zog
Banned
Reviewers could have said 'NO' to CDPR and gone on reviewing other games. Since they didn't say no, more studios will do this.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
They might even ask to see the review before it goes live. My wife does reviews on non-gaming related stuff and they sometimes ask her to submit it before posting it. It’s already being done in other industries. The gaming industry shouldn’t be a shocker. These games get more and more expensive to make and studios have to keep the lights on.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
I love Witcher series, CDPR seem like good people, are loved amongst gamers. But how they dealt with CP2077 rubbed me the wrong way, as well as the reviewers...how can you give 10/10 but admit to insane amount of bugs???
Oh because they said the day one patch fixes it. So now we are trusting others how their game will play better so just score it based on that presumption. And guess what, day one patch didn't fix everything and base PS4 is running the game in potato mode and even then still struggling. Im sure shit will be ironed out over time BUT...
... shit like this will become a norm for developers to release obviously not finished game yet review it based on imagination how it will look down the line. Thats the newest low we gonna hit. Last time I checked games that were reported to have long loading screens or drops in fps, it would clearly drop the score. So as mych as i enjoy CDPR games, 10/10 is bullshit compared to games like TLOU2 that were polished as fuck day 1.
Oh because they said the day one patch fixes it. So now we are trusting others how their game will play better so just score it based on that presumption. And guess what, day one patch didn't fix everything and base PS4 is running the game in potato mode and even then still struggling. Im sure shit will be ironed out over time BUT...
... shit like this will become a norm for developers to release obviously not finished game yet review it based on imagination how it will look down the line. Thats the newest low we gonna hit. Last time I checked games that were reported to have long loading screens or drops in fps, it would clearly drop the score. So as mych as i enjoy CDPR games, 10/10 is bullshit compared to games like TLOU2 that were polished as fuck day 1.
mikefrails
Banned
Are you saying politicians and corporations control the media?
Zog
Banned
It's not ok that they lie to/mislead consumers to keep the lights on.
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IShowUBasics
Member
These days you cant trust any reviewers anyway. CDPR knew what they were doing by pumping all their marketing budget into "influencers", "streamers" and "reviewers". 10k$ for a tv spot is worthless, but giving that an influencer to shill for your game hits exactly the target market and 10k is enough for most spineless "e-celebs" to shill for the game and for 20k they say anything you tell them. There should be a strict ban of any interaction between publisher and reviewer including free reviewcopies and those stupid gifts. its also kinda funny how gamepro changed their xbox rating from 83 on metacritic into a 6x because they saw that another reviewer gave the game a 35.
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Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The Gamespot and PC gamer reviews that gave this game a 7 or 7.8 is actually about what I would give this game, so it isnt all reviewers.
protonion
Member
Certain companies have disgusting media relations and cdpr is one of them.
We didn't have to wait for the release. Even when the first gameplay impressions were released it was obvious. Everyone was gushing for something that never looked that special.
And to go even further back... Witcher 3.
I don't care how many sales or awards this game got. Purely gameplay wise it was absolute garbage. The characters and writing cannot push alone a game to these high scores.
This will be a major wake up call and personally I will start checking the sites that trashed this game.
We didn't have to wait for the release. Even when the first gameplay impressions were released it was obvious. Everyone was gushing for something that never looked that special.
And to go even further back... Witcher 3.
I don't care how many sales or awards this game got. Purely gameplay wise it was absolute garbage. The characters and writing cannot push alone a game to these high scores.
This will be a major wake up call and personally I will start checking the sites that trashed this game.
NullZ3r0
Banned
I thought this was obvious.
Ktotheroc
Neo Member
This would be fine, if it wasn't so inconsistent with the experiences of non-reviewers and non-journalists. Game is a mixed bag, but got 10/10s and 9/10s out the ass by a bunch of people who are, and aren't, affiliated with CDPR. The game crashes constantly for some people, and it has an excessive amounts of bugs/glitches for others.
A game that works like that should never be a 10/10. I'm interested in what copy they played, and what was patched in, honestly. WWE 2K got slammed for having an excessive amount of bugs and glitches interrupting gameplay, but this doesn't? LOL Between fanboys and biased media (new and old), the state of gaming is on some cuck shit.
JunkerWoland
Member
Taking a cursory sampling of the initial reviews and related articles from the larger media outlets for Cyberpunk 2077, my main criticism is their general lack of explicitness on what their immediate coverage actually entailed and the resulting confusion over how the game performed across its various platforms. The apparent need to get Cyberpunk 2077 into retail, before the end of 2020, created a situation where neither the media nor the publisher-developer were seemingly ready to handle the title. Ultimately, CD Projekt Red shoulders the blame for their being no baseline version of the game and for how they provided review content and its related stipulations to the media.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Well, just like Nvidia with their gpus given to sites to PR for them, you can't blame CDR too much. Given what you wrote, if gamers just chilled out and waited I don't know..... a whopping 24 hours to buy this game so they could check gamers uploading videos of base consoles (how shit they are), base gamers wouldn't feel so swindled.
And it doesn't help that game sites adhere to NDA protocols so they can be whitelisted for future game previews, videos and free swag and games.
When it comes to movies, how come you never see movie reviewers pull punches? You get high profile movies getting dunked on all the time big bad marks. How come movie reviewers have no fear? How come they don't fear being blacklisted talking about the movie or getting gimped releasing their review early like everyone else.
Surely being forced to watch a movie and pay $10 yourself on day one and then write a review, you're too late because many movie reviewers release their reviews early so the general public already has an idea from critics if it's good or bad.
Yet movie reviewers don't seem to care. And movie studios don't seem to go on this blacklist crusade for people who give the movie a thumbs down.
And it doesn't help that game sites adhere to NDA protocols so they can be whitelisted for future game previews, videos and free swag and games.
When it comes to movies, how come you never see movie reviewers pull punches? You get high profile movies getting dunked on all the time big bad marks. How come movie reviewers have no fear? How come they don't fear being blacklisted talking about the movie or getting gimped releasing their review early like everyone else.
Surely being forced to watch a movie and pay $10 yourself on day one and then write a review, you're too late because many movie reviewers release their reviews early so the general public already has an idea from critics if it's good or bad.
Yet movie reviewers don't seem to care. And movie studios don't seem to go on this blacklist crusade for people who give the movie a thumbs down.
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LavitzSlambert
Member
The problem is these kinds of publications can’t survive. Nobody is paying attention to a small or no name reviewer that releases a review weeks or a month after release. Review copies are given ahead of time and intended so that big reviewers can let people know what it’s like on day 1. If you are a reviewer that has to buy their own copy and can’t get it early, you’re already out of the game unless you’re pandering to a small niche of viewers who are willing to wait. There is no easy solution for this - power will corrupt and even large review sites will fall prey to being overly optimistic to ensure continued support.
Since we can’t solve the problem, all we can do is be aware as consumers of this conflict of interest and stay skeptical.
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
The industry is with a lot of bullshit, and guess who to blame? The same people who buys it anyways
- Metal Gear Solid V is an incomplete game, still people says that Kojima did his job fair and square. Only Konami is to blame. Later Kojima do another game that is very flat, still, people doesn't really say that because Kojima was the one that made it
- God of War changed his direction and is a totally different game, and just a fine game. People say that is the new shit and stuff, but just because changed direction
- Last of Us 2 got a thousand prizes, and it's just a fine game, but the industry is pushing into everyone throats that is the new greatest shit
- People still says that the PS5 is the only thing with new stuff, and guess what? Xbox basically said since the reveal that the Series consoles are better versions of we got before - also, a remake shouldn't be a reason to buy a new console. Get over with
- People with Xbox are so needy that three seconds of a CGI trailer of Perfect Dark got a bone on them. Xbox has like a big windows of no new stuff and we just have CGI trailers. It's 2020 and we still have this shit
- Metal Gear Solid V is an incomplete game, still people says that Kojima did his job fair and square. Only Konami is to blame. Later Kojima do another game that is very flat, still, people doesn't really say that because Kojima was the one that made it
- God of War changed his direction and is a totally different game, and just a fine game. People say that is the new shit and stuff, but just because changed direction
- Last of Us 2 got a thousand prizes, and it's just a fine game, but the industry is pushing into everyone throats that is the new greatest shit
- People still says that the PS5 is the only thing with new stuff, and guess what? Xbox basically said since the reveal that the Series consoles are better versions of we got before - also, a remake shouldn't be a reason to buy a new console. Get over with
- People with Xbox are so needy that three seconds of a CGI trailer of Perfect Dark got a bone on them. Xbox has like a big windows of no new stuff and we just have CGI trailers. It's 2020 and we still have this shit
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That's what happens over time when video game marketing budgets explode into the stratosphere.
Long time ago, all the marketing you'd see are cheesy magazine ads and Nintendo, Sega and a handful of other big companies (MK ads) would do TV ads.
A game comes out, and most magazines don't have a review for it until 3 issues down the line. And because gaming news so sparse, most gamers didn't even know when games came out. You visit a game store and suddenly there's 10 new games you never heard of because even the game magazines never mentioned them once even though each month there weren't even a lot of games launched anyway. Its not like now where theres tons of games (big budget and indie) released all the time.
I remember going to a game store (overpriced Microplay in Toronto) and suddenly there's Evander Holyfield boxing for Genesis. Never knew about it. But it's suddenly there.
In modern day, you'd hear about a new boxing game 3 years ago and game sites doing their spoonfed preview scripts and trailers every two months until release.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Ya. I dont know when it started to really skew to that 6-10 review scale, but I'd say around 20 years ago(?). It really went hand and hand when every household got the internet.
For those of you who didn't read video game and PC game mags in the 80s and 90s (and that included the early issues of EGM), games could get skewered with 3s, 4s, 5s. PC Gamer was probably the harshest. Every issue had at least a couple games getting under 30%. They had a 1-100% range and I remember games getting grilled with 12% and 18%.
You don't see this anymore.
Great Hair
Banned
GeorgPrime
Banned
Most user reviews are woke people who complain about not enough "visibility" of transgender lol
The rest just enjoys the game for what it is or waits for patches
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Awards giving out in August. Awesome.Gamescom
Awards August 2020
Best PC Game
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Best Role Playing Game
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Best of gamescom
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Best Sony PlayStation Game
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
GeorgPrime
Banned
Gamescom
Awards August 2020
Best PC Game
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Best Role Playing Game
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Best of gamescom
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Best Sony PlayStation Game
Cyberpunk 2077, CD PROJEKT RED
Next Gamescom is 2021 and until then most issues with the game will be fixed.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I wouldn't put too much into games showing a 1 or 2/10 user score unless it's Big Rig Racing kind of game.
Even the heavy hitters like FIFA and COD get grilled with bad user scores.
I'm not saying roster update FIFA and rinse and repeat shooters are 10/10 games, but when they get dumped on with low scores due to people pissed about microtrans so they give it a 0/10, that's not the intention user scores were meant for.
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