• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Gaf, why is Dark Souls 2 so bad?

I can understand the complaints, especially if SotFS is your first Souls game (Bloodborne notwithstanding). That version of the game was more directed towards those who already played the original game. And even the original game was not as polished as the previous two.

It is certainly not a bad game though. I would tell you to maybe play either Demon's Souls or Dark Souls first though. If you still feel that way after giving these a shot, then maybe the series isn't for you.
 

Nerokis

Member
The first several hours are the worst. I imagine going from Bloodborne to DS2 is even harder, but there are enough differences between DS1 and DS2 to also make the transition jarring. Health decay (I hadn't played Demon's Souls), dodging being tied to a stat, parrying being so much more difficult, despawning enemies...it all added up to a cycle of frustration and "wtf is this?" that I hadn't experienced in a very, very long time.

A few things had to come together for me to get into a solid rhythm: 1). put enough points into Adaptability to make dodging comparably effective to the first game, and really, you can do this very quickly; 2). getting introduced to the part of DS2 that's significantly better than the first game, online play, and learning how this circumvents things like health decay and enemy despawning; and 3). just adjusting to the fact that this is a different game with a different feel.

I grew to love DS2 immensely. Nothing can ever match going through Dark Souls for the first time, and overall, I prefer it. But DS2 is more consistent, doesn't have the drop-off the first had post-Anor Londo, improves some things like online (Soul Memory being a huge dark spot here, admittedly), weapon upgrading, and character building. Over time, I went from finding the differences between the games jarring, to finding it endearing how much DS2 feels like its own thing.

I'm going through Scholar of the First Sin for the first time. Decided to go shieldless, which is a first for me in a Souls game, and to check out power stancing. One of 2015's oddities for me was getting a bit past Rom in Bloodborne, and then falling off for a whole host of reasons. Playing DS2 with this character actually has me really excited to go back to Bloodborne, seeing as it's built from the bottom up to accommodate this playstyle.
 

Rocketz

Member
I only had a minic do that to me once.

OP I don't know what weapon your using bit get yourself a great sword and a shield. If your struggling with multiple enemies at once it has a good horizontal slash.

The first few hours of the game are the hardest until you start to gain items and level up.
 

Jpope

Neo Member
The game definitely feels like it was tuned more for co-op than previous games in the series. That Season Pass DLC is still the toughest section in the entire series.
DaSII is a great game, though. Just not as a good as the other games in the series.
 

impact

Banned
Terrible hitboxes
Terrible bossfights (main game)
Terrible mechanics like ADP and soul memory

most other aspects are an upgrade from past series iterations, but those three negatives far outweigh any of the positive additions imo. If they just fixed the hitboxes so the game plays like Dark Souls 1 or Bloodborne I would place it much higher. They must have been drunk for ADP and soul memory, otherwise I'm not sure how anyone with a brain could want those mechanics to ruin the game.

I hate it. DS1 is my favourite game, Bloodborne a close second - but I can't stand to play DS2 for so many reasons.

Shit bosses, the world does not make sense (unlike DS1 and Bloodborne where the areas are connected perfectly to each other), the movement feels floaty, the hitboxes suck, Adaptability is an actual stat that actually happened (thank god they removed it for DS3), the story doesnt make sense.. etc etc.

It's just opinions but yeah. I really dont like that game lol

pretty much, well said meme
 
1. Dark Souls 2 is not a bad game!
2. Bloodborne and Dark Souls 2 play completely different. Once you have to dodge constantly and have a larger window for attacking and it's faster. The other is slow and dedicated. You attack in DS2, you're committed.

I think you're trying to start a flame war to be honest, OP. This has been stated many many many times

Well I try to steer clear of the souls community by and large cos of things like this :)

I am playing it differently to bloodborne, I've seen a few lets plays and reviews, and that great video Matthewmatosis did on it, doesn't make it better.
 

Fhtagn

Member
There's nothing like those gifs in Bloodborne or Dark Souls.

Yes there are, mostly grab attacks.

Here's the thing: the bad grab hit boxes in Dark Souls 2 are compounded by also having very severe effects for getting caught by the grab. So that hippo grab, which is the all time worst hit box in any Souls game, is the worst because it's always a one hit kill.

If it did 20% of your health, it'd be annoying. That it vacuums you up from several feet away and kills you is unforgivable.

But Dark Souls 2 has it's fair share of absurdly good hit boxes. And Dark Souls and Bloodborne have some bullshit ones. I've sunk a minimum of 200 hours into every Souls game and have a platinum or 1000/1000 in ever title. I've seen both amazing and bullshit hit boxes in all four games.
 

LiK

Member
Well I try to steer clear of the souls community by and large cos of things like this :)

I am playing it differently to bloodborne, I've seen a few lets plays and reviews, and that great video Matthewmatosis did on it, doesn't make it better.

heh, the Souls community OTs are good. if you need help, make sure to post there. people will gladly give you advice if you're having trouble.
 
It gets better OP. Some later on areas are pretty decent. And the DLC areas are good too. It has a pretty poor opening few hours though. Especially when you compare it to Dark Souls whose opening hours were the best bit of the game.

What really pisses me off is that they knew there was too much of this horde bullshit in the vanilla game and instead of fixing it for the Ultimate edition, they fucking doubled down on it.
 
It's simply not. Stop over exaggerating your disapproval for the game and just move onto another game. Dark Souls III will be out soon.
 

Hixx

Member
Original Dark Souls 2 is waaaaaay more beginner-friendly than SotFS. There are some additions in the early areas that just seem utterly needless (the increased number of Hollows and a Cyclops in the first area are just... why?? Then the changes to Heide's Tower ruined it completely imo) to me. Appealing to those who returned to the game, perhaps, but to new players? Stupid. It gets better as it goes on, but damn, considering DS2 is one of my favourite games ever especially, did SotFS leave a bad initial impression.

Oh dear. Just refreshed and the hitbox .gifs are here. What a time.
 

BriGuy

Member
I don't much care for DS2. I mean, I enjoyed it enough to complete it, but not enough to go back through it again. I've played the other Souls games probably 3+ times apiece, but DS2 just feels kind of drab to me. It's the video game equivalent of a rainy, Sunday afternoon.
 

Producer

Member
These hitboxes were a crime.


Good hitboxes are absolutely integral to this series. Good enemy placement as and good bonfire design are incredibly important as well. Not to mention absolutely baffling design decisions like adaptability. Your character drinks estus like a person perpetually stuck in slow motion unless you invest in ADP.

the thing is those attacks in the gif have grab states, you can't just get swiped by the Pursuer's impale attack. The player dodged too early, got hit, and the animation had to complete so he got warped in the proper place.
 

Oberon

Banned
I absolutely love bloodborne, I love it so much, its probably one of my favourite games ever by now.

Here's 10 enemies to try and dodge that you could kill in two hits but you can't get them all before they get you isn't fun. Horde enemies just aren't fun like this.

I see a contradiction here.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
I will politely disagree with you

reremake_by_aloo81-d7d2zxq.gif

That's 99.9 % iFrames working as intended and .01 % hitbox. Edit: Or am I dumb and you don't get any iframes from jump attacks?
 

Dimmle

Member
I think it's pretty laughable to say that the world was designed to be this way.

It's a consistent theme across the main game and DLC. DS2 isn't beholden to the cohesive design of Lordran.

In the end, the world was designed to be that way. There may have been cuts and reshuffling but the director obviously didn't think it compromised the game's world. Honestly, I find the moment surreal and in no way a violation of what DS2 had already established.
 

MrHoot

Member
Dark Souls 2 for me was still very enjoyable but my problems were never in the nitty gritty like hitboxes, although I did feel that the tracking was way more cheap in DS2 than DS1.

But it just felt pretty uninspired in places compared to DS1 and Bloodborne. Level design aside, which was already pretty poor and plagued by not enough interconnection and just too many bonfire placement, a lot of areas were visually pretty bland like Shaded Ruins and Brightstone Cove, or Earthern Keep and even Iron keep. A lot less consistency with what the levels were supposed to represent.

In Dark Souls 1, a lot of places had a tight relationship with the plot and felt more tangible. There was some more bullshittey place (like tomb of the giant) but overall if felt cohesive.

There's also the boss design which was significantly poorer for me at least. A lot of humanoid bosses, mostly uninteresting or cheap, and sometimes very very easy in fact.

The DLC did a lot of good and it's very enjoyable. SotfS fixed also a bit (although that new Iron Keep enemy placement is BULLSHIT). But I wish that the base game and it's setting wasn't just so throwaway

For me these are the main reason it's poorer: Poor story (feels like fanfiction honestly, with little reason to exist in connection with Dark Souls 1), poor level design both mechanically and visually and poor boss design.

And if we want to go into the nitty gritty: The durability thing is pretty BS, adaptability and soul memory were not well implemented and vanilla had a lot of questionable hitboxes, especially on bosses
 

Bluenoser

Member
It's not bad, it's just not as well made as Dark Souls 1. The lore, story, and characters were pretty forgettable, and the combat was a step in the wrong direction. That said, it's still a good game.

Your specific problem, OP, is coming from Bloodborne. Souls combat is more defensive, and slow paced, where Bloodborne is more aggressive, and fast. It's natural to be put off by a slower combat style when that's not what you are used to. If you have a PS3 I would go back to Demon's Souls and start where it all began. Then you can kind of see how it progressed as you move to Dark Souls, then to DkS2.

But you're probably playing DkS2 because of the remaster on PS4, which I thought was supposed to be good. Apparently 60fps, rearranged enemy formations, more NPC's, more lore, etc. If it's still not great, maybe wait for DkS3.
 

ZangBa

Member
Yes there are, mostly grab attacks.

Here's the thing: the bad grab hit boxes in Dark Souls 2 are compounded by also having very severe effects for getting caught by the grab. So that hippo grab, which is the all time worst hit box in any Souls game, is the worst because it's always a one hit kill.

If it did 20% of your health, it'd be annoying. That it vacuums you up from several feet away and kills you is unforgivable.

But Dark Souls 2 has it's fair share of absurdly good hit boxes. And Dark Souls and Bloodborne have some bullshit ones. I've sunk a minimum of 200 hours into every Souls game and have a platinum or 1000/1000 in ever title. I've seen both amazing and bullshit hit boxes in all four games.

I feel the exact same way.

I like all the games pretty equally at this point, but I think I found DS2 the most enjoyable to replay. DLC is my personal favorite, too, though DS1's DLC is great as well.
 

Fhtagn

Member
Well I try to steer clear of the souls community by and large cos of things like this :)

I am playing it differently to bloodborne, I've seen a few lets plays and reviews, and that great video Matthewmatosis did on it, doesn't make it better.

I'd recommend prioritizing the path to Huntsman's Copse (and on through to the Iron Keep.)

The Copse is one of the early game highlights of level design. It's a beautiful place, with great challenges, hidden areas and interconnectedness.

I also recommend trying the club/rapier build, it's my favorite for Dark 2.

If you don't click with it after that, then maybe you just don't click with it. I had a very hard time switching to SOTFS after Bloodborne, but when I gave it a month of space, I got super into it around the Copse and got the platinum (playing through to the middle of NG++ to do so.)

That's 99.9 % iFrames working as intended and .01 % hitbox. Edit: Or am I dumb and you don't get any iframes from jump attacks?

No iframes from jump attacks that I'm aware of.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Original Dark Souls 2 is waaaaaay more beginner-friendly than SotFS. There are some additions in the early areas that just seem utterly needless (the increased number of Hollows and a Cyclops in the first area are just... why?? Then the changes to Heide's Tower ruined it completely imo) to me. Appealing to those who returned to the game, perhaps, but to new players? Stupid. It gets better as it goes on, but damn, considering DS2 is one of my favourite games ever especially, did SotFS leave a bad initial impression.

The changes they made for the PS4/XB1 version basically make it Scholar of the First Romhack as far as I'm concerned. The changes they made in that version just make no sense to me.
 
Aah what did u do OP, u''ll summon all the edgy people who'll ignore everything wrong with the game.

Dark Souls 2 is okay if you ignore the 1. linear level design 2. shitty world design 3. shitty uninspired humanoid bosses 4. hitboxes 5. technical problems and glitches
 

GreatNumber

Unconfirmed Member
If you are playing scholar of the first sin edition then I can understand why you dislike it. Scholar takes the original enemy placements and adds more, some of them make sense with their area now (Heide knights actually in Heide's tower of flame). But they add so many that if you cross a certain line instead of one enemy, you'll fight 3 or 5 or 7. In some cases if you aren't adept with rolling in that game you have almost no chance since using a shield will stunlock you in place. This then limits your playstyle unless you are confident with stamina management and know the areas super well so you don't get cornered up or fall off of cliffs.

If you are having issues I would recommend just get used to rolling and using weapons with larger hit areas or weapons that are fast and can stun quick. Early game weapons like the battleaxe are perfect for stunning and they do decent damage scaling with strength.

Dark Souls 2 is a good to great game, it came to the table with new systems some good some bad. It overall was enjoyable from start to finish. Scholar is a chore as someone who played original Dks2 because it took all of the enjoyment I had and messed with it in such a way where. This isn't more challenging in the traditional sense of harder enemies this is just more of the same enemies put in areas I normally wouldn't see them in. It creates scenarios that when you beat them they don't make you feel like you accomplished something great, it feels like you just wasted away a poor attempt to kill you. You then look onto the horizon and see multiple versions of this and while I haven't beaten Scholar (Made it to iron keep and stopped) The lost bastile is personally the most egregious of this placement of enemies.

Change is good but only if it's done for the better, changing something just to change it to make it seem like a worth while investment isn't good and that is what Scholar of the First Sin is in my opinion.
 
Well I try to steer clear of the souls community by and large cos of things like this :)

I am playing it differently to bloodborne, I've seen a few lets plays and reviews, and that great video Matthewmatosis did on it, doesn't make it better.

Let me back up, let's take it from the top. Especially since I don't like coming off as a jerk. So you didn't like it due to the combat, I can get that, I think we all had that issue. That said, I have over 800 hours on DK2 on steam alone, not counting the console versions, as well as several NG's in Bloodborne, so I can related.

You got to think about it. You played BB and then you went back to play an other game, which BB improved over in certain aspects, of course it may seem like a bad or inferior game. Hell, I felt the same way after playing Dark Souls III at various events and the network test. I don't think GAF is like many of the Dark Soul communities. if shit is bad, there's more than enough people here to tell you it's bad and vice versa.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Aah what did u do OP, u''ll summon all the edgy people who'll ignore everything wrong with the game.

Dark Souls 2 is okay if you ignore the 1. linear level design 2. shitty world design 3. shitty uninspired humanoid bosses 4. hitboxes 5. technical problems and glitches

This post and the "lol bad hitboxx" gifs posted. The thread is complete now.

Edit: Also op for the love of god put points into ADP to raise your Agility. That's one thing about Dark Souls 2 that I can 100% agree with being an extremely stupid design decision.
 

Adaren

Member
That's 99.9 % iFrames working as intended and .01 % hitbox. Edit: Or am I dumb and you don't get any iframes from jump attacks?

You don't get iframes from jump attacks.

There's a version of the gif without the slowdown that makes everything easier to parse.

EDIT:

2762296-4017673061-ighcb.gif
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
You don't get iframes from jump attacks.

There's a version of the gif without the slowdown that makes everything easier to parse.

Is there a version that shows the health bar? Legit wondering. Asking because you could totally poise that attack and still take damage
 

Fhtagn

Member
Aah what did u do OP, u''ll summon all the edgy people who'll ignore everything wrong with the game.

Dark Souls 2 is okay if you ignore the 1. linear level design 2. shitty world design 3. shitty uninspired humanoid bosses 4. hitboxes 5. technical problems and glitches

And you'll summon all the edgy people who insist the game is pure shit. It's clearly not.

If you approach it on it's own terms, it's a few hundred hours of fun. If you like PVP in particular, it could be 1000 hours of fun.

If you only care about it being good at the things that the other Souls games excel at, you're going to be disappointed or hate it, but if you can realize it'd be a better game if it had a different name, then you'll do alright.
 
after beating Dark Souls 1 and playing through Bloodborne I have just started Dark Souls II and I have to say, I'm enjoying it a lot more than I though I would. It's so far really quite good. It's a shame you're not enjoying it, but if you have only played Bloodborne and are going to DSII from BB, I'm not surprised you aren't appreciating it as much. I personally prefer Dark Souls to Bloodborne, so I guess that helps me enjoy DSII a little more.
 

@Wreck

Member
man i miss souls i might go pick up the ps4 version

Purely speculative but I feel like ds3 will be more of ds2 except with some tweaks to game play and world maybe open world
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
At first i didnt enjoy it especially since i played Scholar after playing Bloodborne and Dark Souls, but once i started to play coop and got some A.I buddies, it all started to click. I defeated pretty much every boss with a crew of 4 or more lol. It was amazing.

The PS4 version made everything super hard which is kind of stupid because these games are already hard, but its a lot more manageable thanks to the A.I buddies and coop. Oh and i love the fact that you can burn effigies and play NG+ versions of the bosses to get better loot. I was rolling +2 versions of all my rings by the end of the game. it was fantastic.
 
man i miss souls i might go pick up the ps4 version

Purely speculative but I feel like ds3 will be more of ds2 except with some tweaks to game play and world maybe open world
This is my greatest fear as well

I feel like DS2 would be remembered a lot more fondly if it was the first in the series. It has that quality where there are a lot of flaws that they'd iron out in future sequels. But in reality they just took a lot of steps back.
 

Trace

Banned
Yea it's pretty bad.

Demon's Souls? Perfection. Dark Souls? Perfection. Bloodborne? Perfection.

Dark Souls 2 though? Really not that interesting. Lots of dull enemies, locations that don't fit together well, buggy hitboxes, and rolling feels bad.
 

Lux R7

Member
is not. Amazing game and best game of 2014. Sotfs is even better imho. Yeah is not as good as DS1 DeS and BB but it's still amazing.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Should make a gif of Bloodletting Beast falcon punching the player from a mile away.
There's already a gif of it but two things:

1) Chalice dungeon boss only so most people have not experienced it.
2) The attack is less of a hitbox issue and more of a "ridiculous fast, full screen move with crazy tracking"
 

Producer

Member
man i miss souls i might go pick up the ps4 version

Purely speculative but I feel like ds3 will be more of ds2 except with some tweaks to game play and world maybe open world

We already know a good amount of info about Dark Souls 3., its very different from 2. No its not open world.
 

Fhtagn

Member
man i miss souls i might go pick up the ps4 version

Purely speculative but I feel like ds3 will be more of ds2 except with some tweaks to game play and world maybe open world

Having played 6 hours of the beta, Dark Souls 3's core mechanics is a mixtape of the best aspects of the other four games, leaning heaviest on Dark Souls 1, with a pace closer to Bloodborne.

If the beta area and boss is indicative of the quality of the full game, it could easily be the best game in the series mechanically and level design wise.

This. On the other hand they seem to have tightened up the Hippogre grabs in SOTFS; I found them near impossible to fight without cheesing in the original release due to their insta-kill grab hitbox being so huge, but I was able to fight them just fine in SOTFS.

Nah, they still fucked me up in SOTFS. :(
 

Mman235

Member
Hitboxes are not the problem in any of these gifs. Grab attacks are. In all of them, the attack connects, and then the player is warped to the place he needs to be for the animation to continue.

The only reason it's more prevalent in DS2 is because it has too many grab attacks.

This. On the other hand they seem to have tightened up the Hippogre grabs in SOTFS; I found them near impossible to fight without cheesing in the original release due to their insta-kill grab hitbox being so huge, but I was able to fight them just fine in SOTFS.

I will politely disagree with you

reremake_by_aloo81-d7d2zxq.gif

You can do this in Dark Souls 2 as well. I used heavy weapons in my recent SOTFS playthrough and I went under a bunch of attacks using them (as they have animations that naturally leave you close to the ground.
 

Hollow

Member
man i miss souls i might go pick up the ps4 version

Purely speculative but I feel like ds3 will be more of ds2 except with some tweaks to game play and world maybe open world

DS3 is nothing like 2 going by the network test. It's closer to DS1 with a dash of Demon's Souls thrown in for flavor.
 
Top Bottom