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[Lux R7]

the problem with ds1 and BB is that you don't actually hit your target when you swing, you get to experience a half a second of permanent fucking lag while the game tries to decide who hits what, it's a completely unbearable piece of shit.

wat

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

PS3/360 version right? I heard they had some major issues with input-lag, yeah.

Nope. PS4 version. To be fair, it always worked when I most needed it to like when I was running from danger. The huge delay always happened when nothing was happening. Really weird.

 

[CHC]

With a title like that I don't think you're really trying to invite genuine discussion. If you want an actual breakdown of DS2 compared to its predecessor, there are many, many discussions about it.

This just seems like you impulsively made a thread to vent your own frustrations with the game in a very vague and general way.

 

[Bio]

DS2 is probably my favorite, definitely the one I put the most time into. Yeah DS1 had some cooler boss fights, and yeah it also had cooler shortcuts and area inter-connectivity, but DS2 was just fun as hell to play, was a much more pleasant play experience with UI improvements and actual technical stuff with how the game looked and ran, I loved being able to teleport right from the start, it gave the game so much damn replayability. That and the vastly improved multiplayer experiences and covenant stuff..

I think I can look at the series and say maybe DS1 is the better game, and I definitely played DS1 a bunch of times, but DS2 is more the game I wanted to play over and over and over again. I put like 500 or more hours into DS2 across all the versions.

 

[Cyrano]

You can come at it from any angle; level design, enemy placement, bosses, yadda, yadda and all those criticisms have merit BUT all other criticisms of the game come FAR, FAR below the problem with the core basic engine, how you control the character, how you move and react in the world, the basic combat, movement etc. I am NOT talking about something that can be solved by pumping the agility stat - it is the engine itself that has the character moving in an awkward way that, to me, is inferior to the previous two games and makes the whole game a lesser experience regardless of everything else in the game, good or bad.

If someone modded in the character movement and controls verbatim from DS1 or even DeS it would improve the experience hugely, the game would still have all the other things people note as problems, but it would be a lot more fun to play.

When people defend DS2 by saying it's bigger, there's more weapons, more fashion souls - I don't care, it's a sequel - I'd expect those things. What I don't expect is for them to take the main thing about the game that makes it so amazing (the basic gameplay) and ruin it. The game plays like another studio did a Souls-like game and got it wrong.

I can still enjoy the game and still play it (I just platinumed the PS4 version a few weeks back despite huge frustrations and swearing off it forever at one point), but the basic gameplay is the worst of the series because they fucked it up. Bloodborne plays beautifully, so attribute all that to whatever you want, B-team whatever I don't really care to get in to all that - All I know is DS2's gameplay, character controlling is inferior, frustrating and far less fun than the other 3 games in the series (and DS3 too from the network test, although I wasn't 100% sold on the gameplay there either, but it was better than DS2 at least, so I have hope).

Didn't really notice this but interesting, given it's largely the same gameplay.

It kinda seems like people who really like Demon's Souls enjoy Dark Souls 2 more and people who like Dark Souls enjoy Bloodborne more. I think it's a question of whether you want the game to be an RPG with action elements or an action game with RPG elements. Historically, Shadow Tower Abyss is where From Software's experimentation really starts to realize the formal gameplay and Demon's Souls more fully conceptualizes the interaction.

 

[Breads]

Nope. PS4 version. To be fair, it always worked when I most needed it to like when I was running from danger. The huge delay always happened when nothing was happening. Really weird.

Are you referring to the rule where if you run out of stamina while running you have to wait a certain amount of time to run again?

 

[Ferr986]

Nope. PS4 version. To be fair, it always worked when I most needed it to like when I was running from danger. The huge delay always happened when nothing was happening. Really weird.

Delay happens when your stamina bar fully depletes. Even if you wait for the bar to charge to full there's sill that tiny delay. If you stop with a tiny bit of stamina left there shouldn't be any delay.

 

[Wagram]

Didn't really notice this but interesting, given it's largely the same gameplay.

It kinda seems like people who really like Demon's Souls enjoy Dark Souls 2 more and people who like Dark Souls enjoy Bloodborne more. I think it's a question of whether you want the game to be an RPG with action elements or an action game with RPG elements. Shadow Tower Abyss is where that experimentation really starts to realize itself and Demon's Souls is more fully conceptualizing it.

That's certainly not true in every case. I like DS1 the most, but BB the least. None of them are even remotely close to bad though. Like there's an ocean wide rift of difference.

 

[terrible]

Dark Souls 2 may actually be my favourite in the series. I have not played Demon's Souls though.

DS2 is probably my favorite, definitely the one I put the most time into. Yeah DS1 had some cooler boss fights, and yeah it also had cooler shortcuts and area inter-connectivity, but DS2 was just fun as hell to play, was a much more pleasant play experience with UI improvements and actual technical stuff with how the game looked and ran, I loved being able to teleport right from the start, it gave the game so much damn replayability. That and the vastly improved multiplayer experiences and covenant stuff..

I think I can look at the series and say maybe DS1 is the better game, and I definitely played DS1 a bunch of times, but DS2 is more the game I wanted to play over and over and over again. I put like 500 or more hours into DS2 across all the versions.

Being able to teleport from the start is huge. Backtracking in DS1 could be painfully boring sometimes.

 

[DoubleTake]

You can come at it from any angle; level design, enemy placement, bosses, yadda, yadda and all those criticisms have merit BUT all other criticisms of the game come FAR, FAR below the problem with the core basic engine, how you control the character, how you move and react in the world, the basic combat, movement etc. I am NOT talking about something that can be solved by pumping the agility stat - it is the engine itself that has the character moving in an awkward way that, to me, is inferior to the previous two games and makes the whole game a lesser experience regardless of everything else in the game, good or bad.

If someone modded in the character movement and controls verbatim from DS1 or even DeS it would improve the experience hugely, the game would still have all the other things people note as problems, but it would be a lot more fun to play.

When people defend DS2 by saying it's bigger, there's more weapons, more fashion souls - I don't care, it's a sequel - I'd expect those things. What I don't expect is for them to take the main thing about the game that makes it so amazing (the basic gameplay) and ruin it. The game plays like another studio did a Souls-like game and got it wrong.

I can still enjoy the game and still play it (I just platinumed the PS4 version a few weeks back despite huge frustrations and swearing off it forever at one point), but the basic gameplay is the worst of the series because they fucked it up. Bloodborne plays beautifully, so attribute all that to whatever you want, B-team whatever I don't really care to get in to all that - All I know is DS2's gameplay, character controlling is inferior, frustrating and far less fun than the other 3 games in the series (and DS3 too from the network test, although I wasn't 100% sold on the gameplay there either, but it was better than DS2 at least, so I have hope).

EXACTLY. Great post. Apparently some will overlook glaring flaws in gameplay/combat design so long as there is "more more more". Which isnt much of a surprise when examining today's industry at large. Its an okay opinion to have, but not one I could ever subscribe to.

 

[WonderCheese]

OP, follow your instincts and quit now. I pushed myself through it because I loved Demon's and Dark, and Bloodborne as well. I kept hoping it would get better or that I would come around to it. It's just not a good Souls game. The troubled development and lack of the mastermind behind the series are both factors that are apparent throughout the game. If you dislike it this much after 10 hours, you're just going to continue to hate it more and more as you trudge through. Do what I refused to do, save yourself a lot of grief and wasted time by quitting now.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Didn't really notice this but interesting, given it's largely the same gameplay.

You didn't notice the differences? I'm amazed to be honest, DS2 plays wildly differently from the other games imo. I'm talking about character movement and basic combat and interaction in the world. The feel is completely off, stiffer and less responsive.

It kinda seems like people who really like Demon's Souls enjoy Dark Souls 2 more and people who like Dark Souls enjoy Bloodborne more..

I don't really see this, not sure how you'd come to that opinion it seems kind of arbitrary.

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

Are you referring to the rule where if you run out of stamina while running you have to wait a certain amount of time to run again?

Delay happens when your stamina bar fully depletes. Even if you wait for the bar to charge to full there's sill that tiny delay. If you stop with a tiny bit of stamina left there shouldn't be any delay.

Seriously? That's definitely it then because I had no idea that was a rule. Was that in the other games?

 

[Zyrox]

As another poster here has said, if bad games were like DSII in terms of quality, I'd be playing bad games all day erryday, no problem. Unfortunately reality is a little diferent...

Personally, after having recently played through Bloodborne, Dark Souls II remains my favorite Souls title. The non interconnecting world doesn't bother me. I never really felt any enemy encounter was cheap or not managable (places with summoners in BB annoyed me far more than anything in DSII, fuck summoners) either. Granted, I played Vanilla and didn't play SotFS yet due to lack of PS4 (played through BB on my brother's PS4).
The Bossfights were indeed kinda lacking, but DSII still had some enjoyable Bossfights nonetheless. Enjoyed fighting (boss names)

Spoiler

Lost Sinner, Flexile Sentry, Velstadt, Demon of Song (even though he was kind of a jobber)

and some others too.
What I really loved about DSII, and what makes it my fav Souls game though, was the sheer weapon/build variety. Combat is the heart of these games for me, and no other gave you as much options and freedom as DSII. Combine that with the best multiplayer system (sans Soul Memory, that was a dumb idea) in the series, and you got a wonderful package for people like me who love just fighting and trying out new stuff to fight with. Can't wait till I get my PS4 and dive back in to Drangleic, and finally explore the DLC areas people keep raving about.
If you're not having fun with it, Op, then that's a shame, but what can you do? Maybe the slower pace of the Souls games compared to BB just isn't for you.

 

[Lux R7]

You can come at it from any angle; level design, enemy placement, bosses, yadda, yadda and all those criticisms have merit BUT all other criticisms of the game come FAR, FAR below the problem with the core basic engine, how you control the character, how you move and react in the world, the basic combat, movement etc. I am NOT talking about something that can be solved by pumping the agility stat - it is the engine itself that has the character moving in an awkward way that, to me, is inferior to the previous two games and makes the whole game a lesser experience regardless of everything else in the game, good or bad.

If someone modded in the character movement and controls verbatim from DS1 or even DeS it would improve the experience hugely, the game would still have all the other things people note as problems, but it would be a lot more fun to play.

When people defend DS2 by saying it's bigger, there's more weapons, more fashion souls - I don't care, it's a sequel - I'd expect those things. What I don't expect is for them to take the main thing about the game that makes it so amazing (the basic gameplay) and ruin it. The game plays like another studio did a Souls-like game and got it wrong.

I can still enjoy the game and still play it (I just platinumed the PS4 version a few weeks back despite huge frustrations and swearing off it forever at one point), but the basic gameplay is the worst of the series because they fucked it up. Bloodborne plays beautifully, so attribute all that to whatever you want, B-team whatever I don't really care to get in to all that - All I know is DS2's gameplay, character controlling is inferior, frustrating and far less fun than the other 3 games in the series (and DS3 too from the network test, although I wasn't 100% sold on the gameplay there either, but it was better than DS2 at least, so I have hope).

all true. Great post.

 

[Clear]

Its used to show how the Dark Souls 2 team fails to understand the interplay between the game as experienced and the desired story. Works perfectly.

Its a nice pre-rendered intro, no different to the nice pre-rendered intro to Demons' Souls, used to set tone. Suggesting that it somehow pulls the player out of the game is laughable, considering it precedes the game actually beginning!

All it showed me was a giant red-flag that the commentator was a pedantic idiot, and unworthy of my continued time and attention.

 

[DoubleTake]

Didn't really notice this but interesting, given it's largely the same gameplay.

It kinda seems like people who really like Demon's Souls enjoy Dark Souls 2 more and people who like Dark Souls enjoy Bloodborne more. I think it's a question of whether you want the game to be an RPG with action elements or an action game with RPG elements. Historically, Shadow Tower Abyss is where From Software's experimentation really starts to realize the formal gameplay and Demon's Souls more fully conceptualizes the interaction.

Youre still not understanding what he or she is talking about. And it seems not many do. Dark Souls 2 controls drastically different from DeS DaS and BB who's movement and animation is based heavily on the previously mentioned. Its not a matter or Rpg vs Action gsme its a matter or animation quality and character control.

 

[krakov]

PvP, because everything has a half-second lag buffer on it I'm not playing the game and reacting to what I see my opponent doing but what I think they might do in the next half second, if I want to parry or roll through an attack, I have to practically initiate before my opponent acts on my screen, it's a complete guess and a garbage system.

You can parry on reaction in many cases but of course not all of them. Would be kind of awful if you could, no? Really good players can toggle escape (escape stunlock) almost anything which kinda brakes the game but it goes to show there definitly isn't a half second lag buffer. The window to perform it quite small and also demands quick reaction. Just sounds to me you didn't invest a lot of time into PvP.

 

[Lux R7]

Youre still not understanding what he or she is talking about. And it seems not many do. Dark Souls 2 controls drastically different from DeS DaS and BB who's movement and animation is based heavily on the previously mentioned. Its not a matter or Rpg vs Action gsme its a matter or animation quality and character control.

it's true and i find it really weird. Why did they change that? They could just port the movements from DkS.

 

[JetSetRadio]

The background music is wonderful right from the beginning.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Seriously? That's definitely it then because I had no idea that was a rule. Was that in the other games?

It's in all the games but it's somewhat pronounced in DS2, you definately don't want to completely run out of stamina in any of the games but especially not DS2.

 

[Bedlam]

All it showed me was a giant red-flag that the commentator was a pedantic idiot, and unworthy of my continued time and attention.

All your posts show, and this one does it best, is pure ignorance.

Why should anyone care about your opinion about a video that you didn't even watch? You keep reiterating the same unimportant nitpicks while ignoring all the huge issues that Matthewmatosis explains in this video.

DS2 felt immediately felt off to me whenI laid hands on the first mp beta.

Didn't really notice this but interesting, given it's largely the same gameplay.

It kinda seems like people who really like Demon's Souls enjoy Dark Souls 2 more and people who like Dark Souls enjoy Bloodborne more. I think it's a question of whether you want the game to be an RPG with action elements or an action game with RPG elements. Historically, Shadow Tower Abyss is where From Software's experimentation really starts to realize the formal gameplay and Demon's Souls more fully conceptualizes the interaction.

Never got that impression. The most common divide is DeS/DS/BB <> DS2 and then there are some people who not like BB as much for various reasons. Personally, I think BB has its flaws (healing system, chalice dungeons) but still does capture the magic that the first two games in the series had while DS2 just flatout completely fails at that aspect.

 

[Parfait]

It's the worst souls game.

Which really still makes it a very good game.

Fuck Iron keep, tho, and it's stupid bullshit 2 invasions and the ridiculous amount of shitty samurai you have to kill just to reach the first boss.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

It gets better but it has a really weak start.

 

[MadSexual]

I recently finished Lords of the Fallen. DS2 will feel like a masterpiece.

 

[squidyj]

wat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXAbwAK0cJ8

one player fishing for a backstab attacks when he thinks he's behind his target but nope, he's not, he's actually in front. so our intrepid hero queues up a parry whose entire animation completes before the first few frames of the swing starts, AND IT WORKS.
The real reason they can fish for backstabs in the first place is because of the fucking lag anyways.

Fuck
Dark Souls
PvP

 

[Subpar Scrub]

It's fine. Worst of the souls games though, which still puts it above most AAA games.

Sounds like you're bad at the game if you're getting "killed cheaply" so often, which is quite detrimental to having a good experience though.

 

[Char Aznable]

just git gud

 

[DoubleTake]

it's true and i find it really weird. Why did they change that? They could just port the movements from DkS.

Who knows. But im glad it seems to be the case for Ds3. If that game controlled like Ds2 id play it once maybe twice to see NGplus changes and never again. Just not fun.

Things like your character not rolling around and enemy and still facing them which allows for a quick counter attack killed Ds2 and its PvP for me. I canr count how many times I would perfectly avoid a dodge and counter attack only to miss because my dumbass character decided to face away from the enemy when he rolls.

 

[dragonzdogma]

This game is good so far,
but I have a feeling I wont be doing any special builds for online PVP
This game seems to stressful to do that.

 

[Nere]

Where exactly did you had to face 10 enemies? I have played Dark souls 2 like 200 hours never did I felt it was cheap or I was getting overwhelmed by enemies. It isn't a bad game, if you think Dark souls 2 is bad you don't know what really bad games are.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

DS2 is an okay game. Heck, it's a good game, but people were expecting a GOAT like Dark Souls or even Demons' Souls, but it's merely okay.

People saying "you're not supposed to play it like Bloodborne" are being misleading. You're not supposed to play it like (or expect) Dark Souls or Demons' Souls, either. Seeing how DS3 is shaping up, as time goes on DS2 will only be further acknowledged as the Zelda II of the series. I think super fans of DS2 need to come to terms with that and not take it personally.

 

[Lux R7]

I recently finished Lords of the Fallen. DS2 will feel like a masterpiece.

i think Lotf is a good souls clone

 

[gai_shain]

Dark Souls 2 is great, I had alot more fun with it compared to bloodborne. Im perfectly aware of the problems it has but I still had alot of fun playing it.

 

[Jombie]

Here's 10 enemies to try and dodge that you could kill in two hits

As usual, no constructive criticism of the game, just vapid hyperbole.

 

[User 479360]

Shhh..don't say anything bad about Souls or Bloodborne on GAF. I know from experience that it doesn't end well.

 

[Zaventem]

What have you done, OP...?

hahaha.

 

[Orochinagis]

I think your first error is compare it to BB, you have to keep and eye on stats, gear stats, weapon stats, and the awkward character movement stat, Is slower, yes but because have its own gameplay to think then attack and think again since the world have traps and "ganks" zones you should be careful when you aproach a single enemy, something that was kinda tunned down in bloodborne aggresive gameplay.

 

[ike_]

Shhh..don't say anything bad about Souls or Bloodborne on GAF. I know from experience that it doesn't end well.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Its a nice pre-rendered intro, no different to the nice pre-rendered intro to Demons' Souls, used to set tone. Suggesting that it somehow pulls the player out of the game is laughable, considering it precedes the game actually beginning!

All it showed me was a giant red-flag that the commentator was a pedantic idiot, and unworthy of my continued time and attention.

Maybe I'm just over sensitive to these things but I thought that the intro was absolutely awful for an RPG where you create your own character. On the other hand Dark Souls had one of the greatest RPG introductions of all time. It's just mystifying how they can go from the best to the worst. It's mystifying again how pointing out that night and day difference can be seen as being nit picky.

 

[Clear]

Why should anyone care about your opinion about a video that you didn't even watch? You keep reiterating the same unimportant nitpicks while ignoring all the huge issues that Matthewmatosis explains in this video.

Because I've explained (with examples) why I hold the opinion that I do.

Its called discussion, mutual agreement is not required.

 

[krakov]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXAbwAK0cJ8

one player fishing for a backstab attacks when he thinks he's behind his target but nope, he's not, he's actually in front. so our intrepid hero queues up a parry whose entire animation completes before the first few frames of the swing starts, AND IT WORKS.
The real reason they can fish for backstabs in the first place is because of the fucking lag anyways.

Fuck
Dark Souls
PvP

Did you read the notes on how these techniques work? Basically the backstab fisher gets punished for not being on point. It's baiting, as parries usually are.

 

[Cyrano]

That's certainly not true in every case. I like DS1 the most, but BB the least. None of them are even remotely close to bad though. Like there's an ocean wide rift of difference.

Well yes, it's certainly not true every case. Just an anecdotal observation. Certain those who are vocal about any one of the games will disagree, given the tendency towards extremes.

You didn't notice the differences? I'm amazed to be honest, DS2 plays wildly differently from the other games imo. I'm talking about character movement and basic combat and interaction in the world. The feel is completely off, stiffer and less responsive.

The games always felt a bit stiff and that always seemed to be the point of the combat to me. The stiff reaction made it feel more like a human was reacting to the attacks instead of a computer controlled character. Much as people state that the weight of the weapons is an important feeling, the weight of the character was and is equally important.

I don't really see this, not sure how you'd come to that opinion it seems kind of arbitrary.

Well, it's just an observation from having looked at many of these threads (here and elsewhere) and it's hard to say there's a sure correlation of any opinion. Given that it's often difficult to even interpret what an opinion might mean and the subtlety language often provides.

Never got that impression. The most common divide is DeS/DS/BB <> DS2 and then there are some people who not like BB as much for various reasons. Personally, I think BB has its flaws (healing system, chalice dungeons) but still does capture the magic that the first two games in the series had while DS2 just flatout completely fails at that aspect.

There is almost certainly a divide there as well! Though the divide generally assumes a disconnect, the one proposed was intending to provide some level of connection for what Dark Souls 2 is often doing, which feels more closely related to many of the game design decisions made in Demon's Souls.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

As usual, no constructive criticism of the game, just vapid hyperbole.

Thats actually a pretty good criticism since enemy hordes like that are quite common, least where I'm at.

 

[EatinOlives]

Its a nice pre-rendered intro, no different to the nice pre-rendered intro to Demons' Souls, used to set tone. Suggesting that it somehow pulls the player out of the game is laughable, considering it precedes the game actually beginning!

All it showed me was a giant red-flag that the commentator was a pedantic idiot, and unworthy of my continued time and attention.

All right, let's move past his commentary on the opening cinematic.

What about the small part on level design that I linked?

 

[Gbraga]

You can come at it from any angle; level design, enemy placement, bosses, yadda, yadda and all those criticisms have merit BUT all other criticisms of the game come FAR, FAR below the problem with the core basic engine, how you control the character, how you move and react in the world, the basic combat, movement etc. I am NOT talking about something that can be solved by pumping the agility stat - it is the engine itself that has the character moving in an awkward way that, to me, is inferior to the previous two games and makes the whole game a lesser experience regardless of everything else in the game, good or bad.

If someone modded in the character movement and controls verbatim from DS1 or even DeS it would improve the experience hugely, the game would still have all the other things people note as problems, but it would be a lot more fun to play.

When people defend DS2 by saying it's bigger, there's more weapons, more fashion souls - I don't care, it's a sequel - I'd expect those things. What I don't expect is for them to take the main thing about the game that makes it so amazing (the basic gameplay) and ruin it. The game plays like another studio did a Souls-like game and got it wrong.

I can still enjoy the game and still play it (I just platinumed the PS4 version a few weeks back despite huge frustrations and swearing off it forever at one point), but the basic gameplay is the worst of the series because they fucked it up. Bloodborne plays beautifully, so attribute all that to whatever you want, B-team whatever I don't really care to get in to all that - All I know is DS2's gameplay, character controlling is inferior, frustrating and far less fun than the other 3 games in the series (and DS3 too from the network test, although I wasn't 100% sold on the gameplay there either, but it was better than DS2 at least, so I have hope).

Completely agree with you.

I was very surprised that my reaction to the network test was "it's alright"

At least it'll probably have great PVP no matter what, since it's probably being made mostly by the DS2 team.

Damn, looking at this thread a lot of people hate dark souls 2. I thought it was the weakest of the bunch but in the end its okay.

I think I prefer it to Demon's, but I always go back and forth on this.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Damn, looking at this thread a lot of people hate dark souls 2. I thought it was the weakest of the bunch but in the end its okay.

 

[civilstrife]

I never saw anyone complain about this online, but I swear my character would not start to run until 4 seconds after I held the sprint button sometimes. Controls as a whole were not as tight the other games.

You do know how the stamina bar works, ya?

 

[brinstar]

Suggesting that it somehow pulls the player out of the game is laughable, considering it precedes the game actually beginning!

The intro definitely weirded me out considering I was planning on playing as a woman.

 

[Ramirez]

I played it directly after coming off BB and had the same experience, thought it was pretty damn awful, and I loved DS. Oh well.