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[Zemm]

It's definitely the worst of the souls + bloodborne games but it's not bad. I don't want to play it again however, one and done for me.

Man the way some people praise DS1 to high heaven makes me believe that many stopped playing the game after Anor Londo. Some of the latter areas are worse than some of the worst areas in DS2. Very uneven latter half of the game.

I still prefer DS1 over DS2 but DS1 gets away with murder around here sometimes.

Definitely agree with this. The last 1/3 of Dark Souls is just plain bad.

 

[Alo0oy]

okay but whether an elevator went up or down to get to a place isn't level design

Frigid Outskirts is.

 

[bonkeng]

I also went straight from BB to DS2 just like you OP. But the difference is, i enjoyed both games greatly.

Maybe you're playing DS2 the same way you played BB, that's why you're frustrated. Try a different approach then?

 

[Easy_D]

Frigid Outskirts is.

Those hard bosses and areas in the DLC get a lot of shit but they *were* specifically designed with co-op in mind.

 

[MayMay]

It is better than the first one (Dark Souls, not Demon's). At least the level design isn't complete horse shit in Dark Souls 2.

Nooope. Nope. Noooooooope. It is complete horseshit in DS2 compared to DS1

 

[Snkfanatic]

I also went straight from BB to DS2 just like you OP. But the difference is, i enjoyed both games greatly.

Maybe you're playing DS2 the same way you played BB, that's why you're frustrated. Try a different approach then?

Yeah I did the same. Loved Bloodborne and DS2.

 

[Dimmle]

Frigid Outskirts is.

Yeah, Frigid Outskirts is almost as bad as a chalice dungeon.

 

[Risette]

Man the way some people praise DS1 to high heaven makes me believe that many stopped playing the game after Anor Londo. Some of the latter areas are worse than some of the worst areas in DS2. Very uneven latter half of the game.

I still prefer DS1 over DS2 but DS1 gets away with murder around here sometimes.

most people's second half experiences include the DLC these days, which is top-tier souls content.

 

[Chillz0r]

I did not own the DLCs until SotfS relase, played them back to back and didnt really understand ALL the praise... i did understand some but it felt to me like overglorifying in an effort to compensate for the mostly mediocre DkS2 design.

The Old Iron King is the only one i would define legit good. Good level design, art style, lore and fantastic boss fights in Fume Knight and Alonne. Only negative is that its fairly short and what did the team do for padding? Yep, add a corridor and a completely new boss: GrimDark Smelter Demon! It pretty much sums the entire DkS2 experience for me, moments of brilliance and completely unnecessary padding that serve no purpose.

Anyhow comments like "but but Dark Souls 1 did this thing poorly too so DkS2 is justified!!!" are ridicolous and childish, just because Lost Izalith exists it doesnt excuse all the crap that went on in DkS2.

Its not a bad game by any means but it would jesus for every step forward they took 3 behind, coming from DkS1 wich does most things right you wouldve expected for DkS2 to do everything right. Its disappointing it didnt.

 

[Already Torn]

To properly answer OP's question:

It was rushed, Namco influenced the design, and Miyazaki was unavailable to help out which led to some poor decision making on the fundamental level.

 

[Doge]

Dark Souls 2 is an amazing game. Sure the game had its faults, but it improved in other area such as summoning and invading. I had a harder time doing those in Dark Souls, which I love doing.

What really makes Dark Souls 2 is the DLC areas. They help the game truly shine. All of the DLCs for DSII are top tier. Fantastic game.

 

[Alo0oy]

Yeah, Frigid Outskirts is almost as bad as a chalice dungeon.

Nah, Chalice Dungeons are worse since character progression is locked behind hours of farming, & some of the best bosses in the series are gated behind those boring dungeons.

 

[njean777]

I personally like DS2 more than bloodborne, the only problem I have is some of the hitbox glitches. Other than that I enjoyed it.

 

[Blobbers]

Nah, Chalice Dungeons are worse since character progression is locked behind hours of farming, & some of the best bosses in the series are gated behind those boring dungeons.

Which is why all those unique mob and boss design efforts need to be transferred into the main game in Bloodborne 2 nad make it a 45-hour-long campaign instead of a 30-hour-long one and ditch the chalice system.

 

[JoseLopez]

It isn't bad but a gigantic step down in a lot of ways

•boss design is joke with a few being made with co op in mind which makes fights frustrating rather than difficult like in ds 1. The sentinels are a perfect example of this.
• basic shit like leveling was needlessly made to take a lot longer.
• the gems are garbage especially in late game
• art took a massive dip
•shit like duel wielding and bows that were hyped up to be actually be good were just if not more useless in ds2.
•encounter design is garbage.
Edit: bloodborne is eons better than ds2 in terms art design and gameplay

 

[Styles]

It's not as bad as Bed of Chaos.

 

[JoseLopez]

It's not as bad as Bed of Chaos.

Bed of chaos can easily be goofed

 

[squidyj]

Which is why all those unique mob and boss design efforts need to be transferred into the main game in Bloodborne 2 nad make it a 45-hour-long campaign instead of a 30-hour-long one and ditch the chalice system.

chalice system is fine.
I feel like a lot of the loudest people about chalice dungeons are people who AT MOST cleared yharnam for the platinum, if that. Honestly at Depth <5 and even depth 5 without offerings it trends towards being boring but when you get into the real challenge in Chalice dungeons where you have rooms full of crap that's very difficult to deal with and you have to treat each one like a puzzle or a fight for your life, then it gets much more interesting, especially when you wind up facing down a boss you dismissed in the main game as easy which you now have to actually learn how to fight.

I've had a lot of fun doing THAT. Farming materials and progressing through unlocks, however, is a bullshit waste of time that needs to be cut.

 

[yuraya]

It was a massive downgrade in level design compared to the first. That is the only real knock on it. Otherwise its a great game.

The first was just too good tho. Not really fair for anyone to try and follow it up.

 

[Already Torn]

Bed of chaos can easily be goofed

This is true but it's still the worst part of Dark Souls

 

[zashga]

DS2 is still pretty great, on the balance. It just has a lot of mediocre level design and bosses, which makes it a lot less impressive or memorable than the other souls games. From also lost the plot on why and how the previous games were difficult. There's way too many mobs and unfair enemy designs (hello, dragon shrine mace knights) that exist only to pad that stupid "global deaths" counter in Majula.

I'd still stop well short of calling it a bad game. It's really good overall. Just not on the level of the rest of the series.

It's not as bad as Bed of Chaos.

Eh, I'd take another bed of chaos over another grave robber trio. I hated those guys like nothing else in the entire series.

Obviously, an actual good boss is preferable to either.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

chalice system is fine.
I feel like a lot of the loudest people about chalice dungeons are people who AT MOST cleared yharnam for the platinum, if that. Honestly at Depth <5 and even depth 5 without offerings it trends towards being boring but when you get into the real challenge in Chalice dungeons where you have rooms full of crap that's very difficult to deal with and you have to treat each one like a puzzle or a fight for your life, then it gets much more interesting, especially when you wind up facing down a boss you dismissed in the main game as easy which you now have to actually learn how to fight.

I've had a lot of fun doing THAT. Farming materials and progressing through unlocks, however, is a bullshit waste of time that needs to be cut.

Chalice dungeons are completely optional so I don't really get the complaints. Bloodborne without the dungeons is a complete game. I would get the complaints if the game was starved of content.

I do agree that the challenge makes the dungeons interesting but what sucks about the dungeons is that the environments are procedurally generated which goes against everything the souls games are about.

 

[generic_username]

OP I think you are playing it like Bloodborne which is not the way to go. Take it slower, lure enemies one at a time and use shield if you must.

 

[Tingle]

Those hard bosses and areas in the DLC get a lot of shit but they *were* specifically designed with co-op in mind.

But in the frigid outskirts, it makes the bosses much, much harder if you do it in Co-op. They get WAY too much health, and they start healing themselves earlier. It is supposed to be made for co-op, but it literally takes a few minutes to get to the boss, even from just taking the most direct path. But that results in you and your partners using up healing items from the also horribly designed deer enemies. By the time you get to the pretty difficult boss, you are both worn down, and your partner has potentially already died.

That area is the poorest designed area in the entire series to me, which is a shame because it looks really neat, and the concept isn't too bad. The Bed of Chaos has nothing on it.

I've always had to do that area alone, because the coop partners are extremely unreliable. And doing it alone is a huge, huge pain. I really question how FromSoft actually playtested the area, felt okay with it, and released it. Its extremely poor quality to me.

 

[Alo0oy]

chalice system is fine.
I feel like a lot of the loudest people about chalice dungeons are people who AT MOST cleared yharnam for the platinum, if that. Honestly at Depth <5 and even depth 5 without offerings it trends towards being boring but when you get into the real challenge in Chalice dungeons where you have rooms full of crap that's very difficult to deal with and you have to treat each one like a puzzle or a fight for your life, then it gets much more interesting, especially when you wind up facing down a boss you dismissed in the main game as easy which you now have to actually learn how to fight.

I've had a lot of fun doing THAT. Farming materials and progressing through unlocks, however, is a bullshit waste of time that needs to be cut.

I spent >150 hours in the dungeons:

That's just one character, I have over 8 characters, most of them have the best blood gems in the game.

I liked the lore behind them & their significance to the story, but it should have been one fixed depth 5 dungeon that had Bloodletting Beast, Keeper of the Old Lords & Queen Yharnam as bosses only.

It's a crime that Abhorrent Beast & Pthumarian Descendant are gated behind the chalice dungeons (yes, I know there's a nerfed version of the Abhorrent Beast as a regular enemy in the game).

 

[Vinland]

Me and a m8 started two new characters this week on the ps4 (he previously only had 360 until he came over and saw the ps4 version at 60.) Every night 5+ hours. Sitting at 25 hours on these characters and loving every minute. This is like the 8th play through for me.

So couldn't disagree more with OP.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

What do people like about the Dark Souls II DLC? I consistently see people claim they're some of the best content in the series. I thought they were all okay-to-good. Sunken King was really good with a terrible first boss. Iron King didn't have any glaring issues but suffered from 90% of the enemies being glass cannons. Ivory King had a fixation on just mobbing the player worse than the base game ever did, using enemies that can't even effectively be staggered, at that. They felt like more Dark Souls II. The only criticism they addressed was world cohesion, since Sunken King had shortcuts instead of bonfires every 20 feet.

 

[Cracklox]

Anyhow comments like "but but Dark Souls 1 did this thing poorly too so DkS2 is justified!!!" are ridicolous and childish, just because Lost Izalith exists it doesnt excuse all the crap that went on in DkS2.

Heh. I probably alluded to that, but definitely not what I meant. I, and a few other people I think, have mentioned that the last section of the game is undoubtedly the strongest part of the game, and the best run home of the series. From Drangleic on it was pretty impressive stuff. The only area after Anor Londo that I thought was as good as the earlier levels in DS1 was the Dukes Library. That place was cool. Other then that though Izalith and its associated orange areas (forget the names off hand) weren't great. Tomb of Giants was an ok novelty at first, but could get frustrating fast. I actually didn't mind the crystal caves, but they were pretty short and they could have done more with them

Not to mention, none of the bosses really gave me too much trouble after O&S (sans Seath. he was a good fight). Centipede, Pinwheel (was that a boss! Where'd he go), Nito etc all got facerolled pretty easily. Also, 4 kings was dumb. There was also something about a Bed of Chaos, but I prefer not to discuss that as its usually from a foetal position

And to be clear I really enjoyed all the games in the series. All of them have their merits and flaws, so I don't wanna sound like I'm blindly defending DS2

 

[spliced]

Your BB complaints are shit and have no real ground, unlike most DS2 negative aspects, that while magnified are very real and actually relevant.

If you are that blind it's not even worth bothering.

 

[Red UFO]

That fucking rat boss with the little rats that poison you if they touch you for half a second the fuck was that all about

 

[Dimmle]

What do people like about the Dark Souls II DLC? I consistently see people claim they're some of the best content in the series. I thought they were all okay-to-good. Sunken King was really good with a terrible first boss. Iron King didn't have any glaring issues but suffered from 90% of the enemies being glass cannons. Ivory King had a fixation on just mobbing the player worse than the base game ever did, using enemies that can't even effectively be staggered, at that. They felt like more Dark Souls II. The only criticism they addressed was world cohesion, since Sunken King had shortcuts instead of bonfires every 20 feet.

I played with knuckles and the Ivory King enemies were Stagger City. Your experience probably varies depending on loadout.

 

[Manu]

I played with knuckles and the Ivory King enemies were Stagger City. Your experience probably varies depending on loadout.

Yep. They're really easy to backstab too.

 

[Mister Wolf]

That fucking rat boss with the little rats that poison you if they touch you for half a second the fuck was that all about

It was about getting good.

 

[generic_username]

I like Dark Souls 1 as much as the next guy, but that comment is ignorant as fuck. Your opinion is not the only accepted one. Someone who likes PvP may vastly prefer DS2, because it takes a giant shit all over every other titles in the series.

I think that is what this thread boils down to or any discussion on souls games for that matter. Anyone who prefers enemy design, encounter design ,level design, pve , atmosphere etc.. tend to discount DS2 consistently because the above aspects is what makes Souls for them. It is this group that u see constantly praising BB, DS1 and DeS.

For those who focus on build options and PVP and if that is what defines Souls for you then DS2 obviously is the superior game. No group is wrong though. Just different preferences. For me PVE makes or breaks a Souls game so I fall into the first camp and think DS2 is the weakest of the trilogy.

 

[dzelly]

I put over 250 hours in. It was my first souls game. Oddly enough, I wasn't able to go back to dark souls and enjoy it afterward. It just felt clunky.

I had the same experience with Mass Effect. Played 2, loved it and tried to go back to no avail.

I feel like I'd have trouble going back to DS2 after Bloodborne. I think it'd be too slow for me now.

 

[En-ou]

I absolutely love bloodborne, I love it so much, its probably one of my favourite games ever by now. But I started Dark Souls 2 on PS4 the other day after getting it cheap from gamestop, played about 10 hours, and man its not good, I think I'm gonna quit. I mean, I don't know if sucks is exactly the right word for it, but its so fucking obtuse, frustrating, the combat is so dull and bullshit, drives me mad. Am I a peasant who doesn't understand good mechanics or what?

Here's 10 enemies to try and dodge that you could kill in two hits but you can't get them all before they get you isn't fun. Horde enemies just aren't fun like this.

bwahahahaha - you SUCK. simply put.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Yep. They're really easy to backstab too.

Well, most Souls enemies are pretty easy to backstab cheese, even in spite of Dark Souls II giving them magic pivot abilities to try to mitigate it. I try not to abuse it unless a section is getting really tiresome.

bwahahahaha - you SUCK. simply put.

This is why people kvetch about "Souls fans are the worst." Don't make posts like this.

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

Heh. I probably alluded to that, but definitely not what I meant. I, and a few other people I think, have mentioned that the last section of the game is undoubtedly the strongest part of the game, and the best run home of the series. From Drangleic on it was pretty impressive stuff. The only area after Anor Londo that I thought was as good as the earlier levels in DS1 was the Dukes Library. That place was cool. Other then that though Izalith and its associated orange areas (forget the names off hand) weren't great. Tomb of Giants was an ok novelty at first, but could get frustrating fast. I actually didn't mind the crystal caves, but they were pretty short and they could have done more with them

Not to mention, none of the bosses really gave me too much trouble after O&S (sans Seath. he was a good fight). Centipede, Pinwheel (was that a boss! Where'd he go), Nito etc all got facerolled pretty easily. Also, 4 kings was dumb. There was also something about a Bed of Chaos, but I prefer not to discuss that as its usually from a foetal position

And to be clear I really enjoyed all the games in the series. All of them have their merits and flaws, so I don't wanna sound like I'm blindly defending DS2

I thought Shrine of Amana was the worst area in the game (though not quite as bad as Izalith) and that area is right after Drangleic.

 

[Reebot]

Its a nice pre-rendered intro, no different to the nice pre-rendered intro to Demons' Souls, used to set tone. Suggesting that it somehow pulls the player out of the game is laughable, considering it precedes the game actually beginning!

All it showed me was a giant red-flag that the commentator was a pedantic idiot, and unworthy of my continued time and attention.

What.

This is why people kvetch about "Souls fans are the worst." Don't make posts like this.

I love the Souls games, and I find it incredibly frustrating that the default answer is always "lol ur bad." Its so transparently stupid, and obviously a sign of having no real argument, but it comes up every single time.

Its like no one can critique this game without paying sacrifice at the alter of hardcore-ness. Every time you have to qualify posts by saying "look I'm good" or "not that it was hard" or risk getting tons of these low effort idiotic responses.

Score one for Namco's marketing team I guess.

 

[DoubleTake]

bwahahahaha - you SUCK. simply put.

What a piss poor "contribution" to this discussion.

 

[Slick Butter]

This is why people kvetch about "Souls fans are the worst." Don't make posts like this.

Really, don't be such a schmuck, En-ou.

 

[Fumpster]

I'm playing Bloodborne and Dark Souls 2 simultaneously right now and I'm enjoying Dark Souls 2 a lot more, so I'm probably in the minority here. They're both really good games, but for whatever reason Dark Souls 2 is interesting me a lot more. Could be the potential for so many different builds, and I might even prefer the slow methodical gameplay.

 

[Seiru]

It's the best Dark Souls, so maybe you don't like Dark Souls games. Bloodborne is pretty different.

 

[Fhtagn]

It is better than the first one (Dark Souls, not Demon's). At least the level design isn't complete horse shit in Dark Souls 2.

This is the least defensible thing said in a thread full of hard to defend claims...

bwahahahaha - you SUCK. simply put.

Other than this, which is bullshit and makes all of us look bad. Don't do this kind of shit.

 

[wig]

I just started playing DS2 on PS4 and I'm loving it. BB was my first Souls game and this is my second. I am really enjoying the variety of weapons/armor and magic. I've played about 7 hours and haven't even hit my first boss yet. :X

 

[Sou Da]

The tracking. Those fucking giant dual wielding ax guys were the worst, moving like they were action figures on top of spinning record.

 

[En-ou]

ah gee, ok i'm sorry. let me add my real 2 cents.

I absolutely love bloodborne, I love it so much, its probably one of my favourite games ever by now. But I started Dark Souls 2 on PS4 the other day after getting it cheap from gamestop, played about 10 hours, and man its not good, I think I'm gonna quit. I mean, I don't know if sucks is exactly the right word for it, but its so fucking obtuse, frustrating, the combat is so dull and bullshit, drives me mad. Am I a peasant who doesn't understand good mechanics or what?

Here's 10 enemies to try and dodge that you could kill in two hits but you can't get them all before they get you isn't fun. Horde enemies just aren't fun like this.

dark souls is about patience. every single enemy has the ability to wreck you unless you are a PRO at the game. if you are not the kind of player who can adapt and play slow and meticulously you will get frustrated and of course the game will be of no fun to you.

i had two of my friends who are hardcore gamers come over and play dark souls and both of them die endlessly and will never play strategically. they spam. they do not respect the trash. they do not monitor their stamina. they do not use their heads when they are stuck. neither of them has finished either souls games.

bottom line - if you don't want to take your time and analyze the enemies etc, or if that is too slow paced for you, the game simply isn't for you. if you can learn to play patiently and actively using your brain instead of just your fingers you will be rewarded with amazing satisfaction. if 10 hours in and you still aren't enjoying it then simply move along and wait for bloodborne 2.

 

[Dresden]

The tracking. Those fucking giant dual wielding ax guys were the worst, moving like they were action figures on top of spinning record.

spiders, too. Their leaps always get me. At least scholar introduced them to pyrophobia.

And Velstadt is still immune to dual cestus hits.

 

[Hatty]

One of my complaints is that the damn saves don't sync with steamcloud like the first game. lost eighty hours because of it and I haven't touched the game since

 

[ChetWilson]

I'm replaying this now w/ the SotfS PC version. I played the original at release. Despite some shortcomings, the game is worth a playthrough.