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[TheOctodad]

I like Sanders, but Hillary is fine.

Plus it's not just about her as a person it's about the people she brings in and the possible nominations she makes in the Supreme Court.

As much as I think Clinton is probably just another politician, she isn't a Chrstian dominionist like Cruz and he's not petty, insulting candidate like Trump. To really believe that those options are the same is insane to me.

 

[Primethius]

I feel like a bunch of people are missing the part of the OP that's targeted at progressives.

As in all of it.

 

[Mushroomer25]

If Obama is anything to go by, Hillary will be playing 8-dimensional chess and nominate a conservative or a moderate, not a liberal.

Except if the Democrats take the Senate, she won't need to play that insane level of chess. Obama made his pick because it would highlight just how absurd the GOP is being about stalemating everything he does. Clinton wouldn't have the same issue, and would benefit from being the president who turned the court liberal. She's already stated that ending Citizens United is a priority for any pick. That's going to take a liberal judge.

 

[danm999]

I mean, I get not voting for a candidate because you don't like them.

Not voting for anything though? Not even downticket races, or other ballot issues?

Nah, makes no sense to me.

 

[Alucrid]

I'm sorry. My mind can't seem to understand how voting for Trump remotely makes you a progressive.

All that shit says is the opposite, that you didn't care for Bernie's message to begin with.

Edit: And people who are anti-establishment (aka jumping from Bernie to Trump) can go screw themselves).

don't try and wrap your mind around huelen because it'll probably end with you bashing your head open against a brick wall

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

A non-vote is preferable to a temper-tantrum vote for Trump, but not by much.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I live in Georgia. I'm a progressive who can't stand center right candidates like Hillary. Why should I waste my time voting for her? She has no chance of winning this state wether I vote or not.

 

[TheSeks]

Because of the way voting and our country works. Not voting is a vote for Trump/Cruz.

And a vote for Hillary who they don't support, isn't in a way?

They're still voting for someone they don't support, just they're voting for the person you want them to vote for.

I live in Georgia. I'm a progressive who can't stand center right candidates like Hillary. Why should I waste my time voting for her? She has no chance of winning this state wether I vote or not.

Because every vote counts. If you "support" her, you should go out and vote to make sure your voice is counted in that support. If you don't, well I'm not going to fault you for not voting or voting against her or whatever. That's your voice, use it or don't.

To put it in perspective:

 

[Draper]

Christ.

So many damn Bernie concerning/Hillary defense threads on Gaf.

 

[HUELEN10]

I feel like a bunch of people are missing the part of the OP that's targeted at progressives.

But what defines a progressive anyways? Open-mindedness? A merging of ideals? Forward leaning? I don't like labels, but I am NPA, sit in like the middle of the political compass, yet consider myself progressive in some respects.

 

[Sami+]

Bernie is not even a Democrat he is trying to hijack the Democratic Party's Primaries because he knew he would go no where if he ran as an Independent

same way Donald Trump has hijacked the Republican Party's Primaries but Donald picked up more success than Bernie

you can't blame Party members going nyah to him

There's no way he'd ever run third party, right? This post just gave me terror flashbacks to Nader in 2000 giving Bush the win on a silver platter.

 

[timetokill]

ok, don't vote.

I'm going to vote. I just wasn't going to let that bullshit slide.

 

[Oltsu]

A lot of Clinton supporters were saying for months that a big portion of the bernie base was being condescending with their "we know better than you", "only my issues matter", "I know what's best for you" line of talk trying to get people to vote for bernie. And that the behavior was a major reason for not voting for bernie.

But now the same exact people are doing the same thing just in the opposite direction....

How about instead of trying to guilt bernie fans into voting for clinton or yelling at them that they're just privileged kids, Hillary supporters listen to what issues the bernie fans care about and empathize with the fact that they're going to have no one to represent their most important issues this election.

Because let's face it a lot of people who care about the surveillance state, the internet, hawkish foreign policy, money in politics etc. are getting a raw fucking deal this election. Hillary is the opposite of progressive on certain issues. And that's during primary season when she has to pander to the left. So maybe instead of yelling at a demoralized (but still a potential Clinton GE voter) person about how selfish they're being you try to understand what's important to that person.

 

[MiketheBSG]

Cause "I don't believe in her/her policies".

Do you believe she will continue/improve Obama's policies?

If so, why would you allow the opposing party the opportunity to derail progress? Maybe you don't believe in all her policies, but surely there's something there you like that she will support that Trump won't. Then you'll be more upset under a Trump presidency.

 

[Mushroomer25]

And a vote for Hillary who they don't support, isn't in a way?

They're still voting for someone they don't support, just they're voting for the person you want them to vote for.

Except Clinton fundamentally shares more core values with Sanders than Trump, and would make the decisions necessary to ensure his ideals survive. There's zero outcomes where a Trump presidency benefits the Sanders cause.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Hillary is not entitled to anyone's vote.

Right now I'm leaning towards not voting at all. Won't vote for Hillary, I refuse to vote for Loebsack after he sided with the GOP to block the refugees, and the Iowa Senate race is essentially irrelevant as Grassley is an immortal invincible vampire.

Yeah but look at the democratic turnout vs. the republican turnout. Do you really want a teapartier or goddamn Hitler as your next president?

 

[PdotMichael]

Hillary isn't progressive. It's a typical the least worst candidate situation.

 

[PantherLotus]

Holy shit are you serious with this

I mean, kinda. I'm not brushing off the SCOTUS Florida decision, but there's a straight line from one to the other. Or if you swing the other way, from voting for Perot over Clinton. These little non-votes from people who actually know the stakes matter.

Maybe you don't think Hillary can lose to Trump? I dunno. I've seen the margins on these things. We have real reasons to be worried.

 

[Steel]

And a vote for Hillary who they don't support, isn't in a way?

They're still voting for someone they don't support, just they're voting for the person you want them to vote for.

I'd like to see you try to make the argument that Hilary is just as bad as Trump or Cruz. You don't have to like her, the way our electoral system works means that most of the time you probably won't like either choice, however you have to realize that one choice is significantly worse than the other.

 

[fester]

I can only speak for myself, but who get riled up about the choices of others like yourself is what makes some us want to get closer to voting Trump. .

Give me a fucking break. How about you vote for the candidate based on the people they are and the policies they have, rather than the comments of Internet strangers? Could it get any more childish?

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I'd still rather not vote. Going out and voting for someone I have absolutely no faith in just so someone else that I have absolutely no faith in doesn't get in power makes no sense to me.

Lol, ok.

Guess forming SCOTUS for a generation, appellate courts, social policy back to the 50's, outrageous immigration policies, etc. etc. make no sense.

 

[HUELEN10]

A lot of Clinton supporters were saying for months that a big portion of the bernie base was being condescending with their "we know better than you", "only my issues matter", "I know what's best for you" line of talk trying to get people to vote for bernie. And that the behavior was a major reason for not voting for bernie.

But now the same exact people are doing the same thing just in the opposite direction....

How about instead of trying to guilt bernie fans into voting for clinton or yelling at them that they're just privileged kids, Hillary supporters listen to what issues the bernie fans care about and empathize with the fact that they're going to have no one to represent their most important issues this election.

Because let's face it a lot of people who care about the surveillance state, the internet, hawkish foreign policy, money in politics etc. are getting a raw fucking deal this election. Hillary is the opposite of progressive on certain issues. And that's during primary season when she has to pander to the left. So maybe instead of yelling at a demoralized (but still a potential Clinton GE voter) person about how selfish they're being you try to understand what's important to that person.

I like your post a lot, thank you for saying what frankly should be said more often.

 

[tookhster]

I've got some friends that are like this and it irritates me as well. And most of them are the college kids who don't have a clue about what he stands for and are just riding the hype train.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

And a vote for Hillary who they don't support, isn't in a way?

They're still voting for someone they don't support, just they're voting for the person you want them to vote for.

Clinton is still preferable to Trump, who has no actual platform, and to Cruz who is sickening on multiple levels.

If someone is so upset about the perfect candidate not existing that they're willing to step aside for someone worse that what is available, than maybe they shouldn't participate at all, not just in voting but in discussion as well.

 

[Byakuya769]

That's not the case. It's more of if Clinton gets it, I believe my now former party made a mistake, and if I don't vote I don't care, but I DO care, so I might have to fix that mistake myself come Election Day.

People like OP make me care, they don't make me mad.

and why count Bernie out already? Let's wait a bit.

Can you explain to me how, as a Sanders supporter, you're FOR flat taxes?

I live in Georgia. I'm a progressive who can't stand center right candidates like Hillary. Why should I waste my time voting for her? She has no chance of winning this state wether I vote or not.

Because Georgia, like Texas, has demographics that could support a purple state. If Georgia and Texas were purple states, national elections could be won with increasingly progressive candidates. It's not immediate and it feels wasted, but it matters.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Blase political cynicism is more than stale, it's noxious.

 

[InsaneZero]

Nobody's being forced to vote.

It's just that protesting about the D- grade you're currently getting from skipping a midterm by skipping finals is somewhat counterproductive.

 

[Sami+]

But what defines a progressive anyways? Open-mindedness? A merging of ideals? Forward leaning? I don't like labels, but I am NPA, sit in like the middle of the political compass, yet consider myself progressive in some respects.

Not hating Muslims is a start I guess. Rules out the GOP.

 

[kitchenmotors]

But if Trump gets elected, and you didn't vote or voted for trump, you better not be on this damn board fucking bitching about this country not being progressive enough and even (possibly) regressing with a overly conservative SCOTUS.

He's gonna bitch anyway. Huelen lives in a bubble of entitlement.

As a gay Hispanic, the idea of Trump as president scares me. I'll be voting Hillary.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The amount of white privilege on display in this thread is crazy.

 

[PantherLotus]

I'm going to vote. I just wasn't going to let that bullshit slide.

It's not bullshit. Even the most cynical mind knows that non-voters might still make the best choice (lol) for him or herself , the country, humanity. Those who sit out while knowing the stakes? I have zero problem blaming them.

 

[Phu]

And this, even though I hate the wording, is what a lot of people forget. He is democrat solely in name... Which is the reason a lot of us voted for him first in the first place, and why some of us would never vote Clinton.

This is a good point, how many of the people saying this would have ever voted for Hillary anyway and not a third party/independent in the general election?

Heck, just watching the last set of Democratic primaries I saw O'Malley got well over 50k votes.

People are gonna vote for who they want to see in office no matter what.

 

[Dai101]

The amount of white privilege on display in this thread is crazy.

It would not go other way, as always.

 

[MotherFan]

Christ.

So many damn Bernie concerning/Hillary defense threads on Gaf.

They simply can't stop it. Even though this won't happen they have a compulsive need to keep beating it every thread when one or two of the same posters goes off about it. Now we have a poll based on people who are pissed right after a big loss as if they think they are rational at the moment. How rational were Hillary voters right after she dropped out?

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Because every vote counts. If you "support" her, you should go out and vote to make sure your voice is counted in that support. If you don't, well I'm not going to fault you for not voting or voting against her or whatever. That's your voice, use it or don't.

Certain votes count more than others .My vote has no meaning here.

 

[Alucrid]

Can you explain to me how, as a Sanders supporter, you're FOR flat taxes?

you're asking that question to a person whose first vote is bernie sanders and whose second vote is donald trump. even if you get a response it's not going to make sense

 

[TheSeks]

Except Clinton fundamentally shares more core values with Sanders than Trump, and would make the decisions necessary to ensure his ideals survive. There's zero outcomes where a Trump presidency benefits the Sanders cause.

I'd like to see you try to make the argument that Hilary is just as bad as Trump or Cruz. You don't have to like her, the way our electoral system works means that most of the time you probably won't like either choice, however you have to realize that one choice is significantly worse than the other.

You're missing what I'm getting at. It's their vote. If they don't see anything about Hillary they like/support (and this has nothing to do with Bernie's policies being similar to Hillary), why should they vote/support her? I'm not even talking about Trump or voting for him over Hillary. If they don't see either candidate worth supporting, why should they go and vote and voice "support" for either? Just because you tell them to?

 

[HUELEN10]

Can you explain to me how, as a Sanders supporter, you're FOR flat taxes?

Well, my man Carson's plan was a flat 14.9, no death tax, people like myself at below median income would not be charged until any money after 1.5x poverty line is earned, and the only funds after. Also no death tax.

Seemed good to me. Again, every voter and every Bernie Voter is different.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Handing Trump at least 2 SCOTUS picks, a Republican controlled congress and the nukes...cause your guy didn't win.

Makes totes sense.

 

[xxracerxx]

I just have no idea how anyone can guzzle down the shit that Trump is shoveling down their throats. It is truly terrifying.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

i remember there was a book that says that eventually nobody but one guy would vote and then that guy would be the most important person in america.

 

[The Lamonster]

The amount of white privilege on display in this thread is crazy.

Someone might need to explain this to some of the folks in this thread.

it's basically, "must be nice to have the luxury of not worrying about the Supreme Court" ie straight white males

 

[Angelus Errare]

Handing Trump at least 2 SCOTUS picks, a Republican controlled congress and the nukes...cause your guy didn't win.

Makes totes sense.

The hilarious part is they'll be the most vocal about how horrible the country is and post "I don't understand how the republicans control so much!"

 

[chaosblade]

No it doesn't. That's a completely ridiculous statement based out of nothing but trying to guilt people into voting for someone else's preferred candidate.

If non-votes counted for the worst option, the worst option would win every election.

This assumes the non-vote had a preference one way or the other.

If you do have a preference and don't vote, it's effectively supporting the alternative solely because you are not taking the opportunity to support your preference. It might not be a +1 for the alternative, but it is a -1 for your preference.

 

[Quonny]

I originally wasn't planning on voting because my state, I assumed, was majorly Republican. Then I read this thread and looked up the statistics.

Then I learned that it's actually pretty close and actually went blue in 2008.

I guess I'm voting.

 

[Korey]

Not voting is basically a vote for Trump, especially with all the new voter ID laws and other Republican shenanigans this year.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

You're missing what I'm getting at. It's their vote. If they don't see anything about Hillary they like/support (and this has nothing to do with Bernie's policies being similar to Hillary), why should they vote/support her? I'm not even talking about Trump or voting for him over Hillary. If they don't see either candidate worth supporting, why should they go and vote and voice "support" for either? Just because you tell them to?

Vote for her because she is going to shape SCOTUS for a generation, appellate courts, not roll back ACA/marriage equality/immigration, etc. etc. etc.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

The amount of white privilege on display in this thread is crazy.

As a white guy seeing it so rampant in this thread is just depressing.

 

[Sami+]

The amount of white privilege on display in this thread is crazy.

Yeah. I've become a lot more cynical about this shit the more I see "if Bernie doesn't win the primary I'm not voting" bullshit.

It's funny, those same people seem to care soooo much about minorities when they're talkin #thebern up but I guess another 8 years of ravaging the Middle East and demolishing social progress domestically is basically the same thing as what'll essentially be another 8 years of the Obama administration.

 

[Hellsing321]

No it doesn't. That's a completely ridiculous statement based out of nothing but trying to guilt people into voting for someone else's preferred candidate.

If non-votes counted for the worst option, the worst option would win every election.

But the worst option usually does win. Especially in off season elections when there is less turnout.