Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Is that what is occurring here? I was under the impression that it was I'm not voting for the nominee.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
This "I'm a progressive but if Hillary is the nominee, I'm not voting" shit is stale
- Thread starter PlayALLtheGames
- Start date
- Status
Is that what is occurring here? I was under the impression that it was I'm not voting for the nominee.
What we need are some anti-votes. Instead of voting for a candidate, you can vote against a candidate. I'm sure plenty of independents would gladly vote against Trump.
I put zero thought into this and it would likely fuck everything. I just don't want Trump a helluva lot more than I do want Clinton.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
yo guys if u dont like voting so much move to china
they got ur back there
they got ur back there
If you're not American you can't vote anyway, so, huh, I don't get what you are arguing for.
Why? Because racism came out to the forfront? This election will bring the republicans to their knees, showing that their ideology is dead and buried. They will split, lose senate and house seats and lose the scotus. This is a last gasp from a minority of scared little men trying to hold on to the good old days.
Instead, we get a thread about a trivial issue about a small minority of bernie supporters that have not had time to get over the loss yet. And people fall for it hook line and sinker.
The Lamonster
Member
Amazing how easily voters on the left have swallowed right wing bullshit about Hillary Clinton over the years.
dead souls
Member
Why even get bothered about it? The people whining about withholding their votes will probably have about as much of an influence as the PUMAs.
HUELEN10
Member
Let's not forget that Clinton said this...
https://youtu.be/6I1-r1YgK9I
I will never understand how she got so much of the queer and female vote.
Oh no, I fully understand Obama's excuse. He's been using it for 8 fucking years now. Let me take a wild guess: He didn't have any other option but to pass this neoliberal legislation/nominate this neoliberal [insert position] because republicans wouldn't approve.
The only real tragedy for Obama is that he couldn't blame it on republicans when his administration was covering for criminal bankers, hunting whistle-blowers, supporting the TPP or was involved in that mass surveillance little story that Democrats keep brushing off as something insignificant.
The thing is - and I've stated it earlier in this thread: if Hillary loses and Trump stacks the court, we could elect Bernie 2.0 in 2020, Bernie 3.0 in 2028, and their policies would be judicially DOA. Bernie 2.0 and 3.0 could sign progressive policy into law, and the moment their laws are signed, challenges against those laws would be filed in court. A vote for Hillary is at the very least a vote to keep Bernie's vision alive.
And still, no one has a counter to this. I see lots of emotion and annoyance at her "corporate/establishment" nature, I see comments about voting one's conscience.. but no actual logic to counter this very valid concern.
These folks claiming to care about his vision are content to see it strangled by a conservative judiciary, with no hope for his agenda to be viable over the next few decades. It'd be nice to see them own-up to this.
Valdfellgar
Banned
You do realize not everyone is a Vulcan right? Sometimes you need to appeal to people's emotions and sympathize or even empathize in order to succeed at convincing people your way is right. If all you do is throw your cold hard logic at them endlessly, and ignore their feelings, all you do is make them feel belittled and unrespected.
I'm a Bernie supporter. When he bows out I'll throw my support and vote to Hillary, but I understand people who don't want to do that. She isn't Bernie and she only sort of stands for what he stands for. It's easy not to trust her, it's easy to think she isn't what you want for this country.
But my reasoning is which of these two can set the stage for Bernie 2.0. Guys, fellow Bernie supporters, even if Bermie doesn't win, our voices were heard and the longer Bernie drags this out the louder they get. In 4-12 years time we'll get a second shot and almost assuredly win it as Bernie's demographic gets older and becomes more likely to be involved. The country will eventually move in the direction we want it to.
However, this is the moment where we could only hinder that progress. Trump, Cruz these are two options that, if allowed to be a President, could not only undo everything accomplished in the past 8 years but assure damage to whatever Bernie 2.0 can accomplish. I won't doom and gloom and say you can kiss free healthcare, or a new and better tax system, or free college goodbye. But the fight will become that much harder in the future if we allow either in now. This is the opportunity to make our fight easier in the next 4-12 years.
It sucks that Bernie is on a path that most likely won't lead to the nomination, I'm bummed too, I'm ready for change now. That said, if I can't have that change now I'm willing to do what needs to be done to make sure we get the change we want in the coming years.
Hillary is probably (I'm not from the future so I won't pretend to know for sure) our best option. The SCOTUS nomination being the big component, but also assuring that we don't regress. I know she isn't as progressive as we'd like, but is staying the course not at least better than watching everything fall back on itself?
I won't tell you what to do with your vote. It's yours, your voice and your opinion. But before you let frustration over arrogant and load mouthed individuals cloud your judgement, and after Bernie vs Hillary has been decided. At least consider your options carefully and how best to fight for the future you want.
(Boy I hope I don't regret posting all this lol)
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K9dS9wl7U
No it is being used as a burn card/sacrificial lamb to show the obstructionism in the Republican party. Burn the white guy, nominate a liberal and/or just hurt the republican party and let Clinton drop in a liberal.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
But Hillary voted for Iraq.
So you're just crazy. That's good to hear.
Abinash117
Member
Lol, those groups that you mentioned like Greens, Marxists, socialists, etc the Democrats were never for them. They have no obligation to even support those ideals and those ideologues themselves left are no were near as popular. The Democrats are at least center-left to comparison to the Republicans and at best have many streaks of liberalism at times. If they are people telling you to hold your nose and vote for them then you don't have to, but the argument is that they are the realistically close chance of enacting policies you would support, but often times it doesn't pan out for whatever reason. One of the issues is that you can't change anything without some support of GOP unless you have the complete majority.
Either way nothing is wrong in voting for people that fits your beliefs, but know that nothing is politics is very rarely immediate, vote in local and state elections that have candidates that align to your beliefs. Change very rarely comes from the top.
TemplaerDude
Member
Eh. Why not.
element
Member
I think there is a HUGE difference between "not voting for" and "not voting". Anyone who says "I don't like <candidate>, so I'm not voting" needs to be slapped in the face!
While the Presidential vote is the biggest on the ticket, unless you live in a swing state your vote for the President isn't the most important vote on the ballot. Local county and state elections have more day to day impact.
Go vote. If you don't want to pick a winner in a race then skip over it, but GO FREAKING VOTE!
While the Presidential vote is the biggest on the ticket, unless you live in a swing state your vote for the President isn't the most important vote on the ballot. Local county and state elections have more day to day impact.
Go vote. If you don't want to pick a winner in a race then skip over it, but GO FREAKING VOTE!
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
but that would be *gasp* impure
If you're a vegetarian, is it so crazy to skip the meal?
The way elections work, if you don't choose, you'll be force fed one. There is no option to not have a president.
HUELEN10
Member
I was looking for this, thanks!
And didn't bring it up since, well, he's not in the running and he only has a year left.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Clinton is not entitled to your vote. If you decide that you will only vote for Sanders and not Clinton, that's your right and no one can or should be allowed to change that.
That said, don't you dare look a racial minority in the eye and tell us you give a shit about us, because you've just shown that's a load of bullshit.
That said, don't you dare look a racial minority in the eye and tell us you give a shit about us, because you've just shown that's a load of bullshit.
If I was American, I would just write in Sanders. In America I would be considered dirty dirty tax-loving communist scum, by both Hillary and Trump alike. Free health care?! How dare I! Fighting Wall Street? Now I am just a conniving socialist. Seriously, being left wing =/= democrat. Democrats aren't left wing on the world scale. Clinton doesn't stand for what I believe and she's not entitled to anyone's vote. Its because of people like Clinton that people like Trump can exit. The greed, the capitalism, the disenfranchisement of lower classes... Trump represents the America both Democrats and Republicans have built, he is many ways the embodiment of America from an outsiders perspective.
I do hope Clinton wins in the end (I guess) but...
Never compromise. Even in the face of Armageddon.
Rorschach said that. And you know what? Dr. Manhattan was right, it never ends. Not for America, anyways.
I do hope Clinton wins in the end (I guess) but...
Never compromise. Even in the face of Armageddon.
Rorschach said that. And you know what? Dr. Manhattan was right, it never ends. Not for America, anyways.
TheOctodad
Member
I agree. And I'm not a Hilary fan at all.
But I do think my gay friends deserve laws that protect them.
And I do believe that my friends that are people of color need to be paid attention to and our policing needs to revaluation.
I do believe that we deserve to live in a country where gun laws are reasonable and keep us safe.
I do believe we deserve to have people in the whitehouse that believe in global warming and it being something serious enough to address.
So I'll be voting for the democrat candidate, not because they deserve my vote, but because the list above deserves to be supported as best as possible. Even if it's not fully supported.
Sorry, you need to fall inline and cast your fear vote against Trump. This is how we "progress" in America. Attempting to avoid this will be countered with accusations of hating minorities. You better think twice about the damage you may do by actually casting a vote for a candidate that better represents your positions.
gutter_trash
Banned
amen for posting that
both 2008 candidates had the same positon and did not want move forward for the sake of winning an election
Obama only "evolved" on it after when the Supreme Court made a decision; than everyone else "evolved"
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
To be fair, that was way back and she looks fucking high.
Primethius
Banned
Yep. The god damn truth.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
ryutaro's mama
Member
They won't confirm him. That is the point of the nomination. LOL
So you have no fucking clue why after nominating Sotomayor and Kagan, he is electing the one nominee that Republicans liked? After McConnell said they wouldn't vote on anyone...you clearly don't get it.
Well, I'm glad we could have this civilized discussion. Great counter-arguments there.
HUELEN10
Member
It was still this century though, this century.
lets be honest, by then trump will have built walls so that they won't ever have to
Overwhelmingly voted for Obama. Same thing will play out here.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Californian here my state will still go democratic even without my vote, come at me OP
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
The point is, which you seemingly missed. Is people evolve; many times based on the political environment at the time. It is much more important to get elected and then 'evolve' when it is safe to do so. I fully believe that Obama/Clinton did not change, they had the view but wouldn't state it because it wasn't acceptable at the time.
The thing is, how do you think it would be if McCain/Romney would have won? Where would LGBT rights be?
100%.
The hilarious thing is Hillary was considered the more liberal pick than Obama during that election. She had Bernie's seat. Except on foreign policy.
Angelus Errare
Banned
1. The lot of you are crying about how you can't vote for a politician who doesn't truly represent you. Boo fucking hoo, minorities, LGBT, and women have had to deal with that for decades. There is a political party that is actively trying to fuck their lives up in so many ways. They never get a politician who that truly represents them but you don't see them saying "Fuck the system lololol, I'll vote republican for the lulz!" They still vote for the closest politican they can find.
You don't worry about that because you're a white male, and because of such the policies the right will enact will affect you much less than the non white groups of America. It's white privilege to be able to vote for a repressive party because you didn't get your way. The rest of us don't have such a luxury. We have to vote for whoever is trying to fuck us over the least. Many upon many Americans stand to loss much with Trump/Cruz in office. They stand to lose insurance via ACA, which probably doesn't affect you because you have a decent paying job that provides adequate insurance. LGBT stand to lose the right to get married, again this doesn't bother/concern you because you're a straight white male, you've been able to get married since this country's inception.
2. With number one stated, it's clear that none of you actually ever gave a fuck about Bernie's platform and what he stands for because if you did then you'd have long realized how selfish and arrogant to vote against what he stands for. Hillary is corporate yes but even Bernie himself has acknowledged on more than one occasion that they both have the same goals in mind in regards to making America a place more tolerable for those who didn't hit the genetic lottery to be born middle class, white, and male. Bernie Sanders himself will vote this election and I can promise you he'll vote for Hillary.
Bernie's policies and platform were never the reason you people were voting for him. You were voting for him because most of you are to put it bluntly...fucking hipsters and Bernie Sanders/Feel the Bernie was the newest fad that you jumped on to show all your twitter/Facebook friends that you're "socially woke" and to pretend that you give a damn about the country or the people. It was an shallow act, and now that Bernie has lost you've dropped the fad and are on to the next one. You people heard the buzzword "anti-establishment" and jumped on the hype train, went to your social networks and blogs and posted links and articles about the sad state of America telling your friends to "wake up" like you were this social justice warrior but the entire thing was a damn act. You never gave a damn about the state of America or how it's people are being treated, and I mean ha why should you? It would barely affect you in the end. You're not poor, you're not LGBT, you're not a minority. At most you'll lose a dollar or two because of tax but hey life is still good.
Then when Trump/Cruz is elected and the put some ridiculously conservative judges on the SCOTUS and rollback all the progress America made, you'll sit in your ivory tower of white privilege and go "If only you people voted for Bernie! we could have avoided this!" Not once realizing that you directly contributed to the shit state of affairs when you decided to pout that your politician didn't get elected.
It's like you people don't understand a thing about politics, politics is all about compromising, even voters have to compromise. I personally would like the next 5 Presidents to be socially progressive minorities but I can't get that, but I am presented a politician who while I don't agree with all of her stances on things, she's the closest thing I've got to my ideal politician, and she's also the one who will fuck over us non white males the least and at the very least protect some of the laws that keep us safe and rollback others that hurt us. And that's the crux, you weren't "added" as a clause to be considered equal or worth protecting. We were and we'd like to see the clauses stay as they are and not eroded or removed completely because a segment of America deems us to be lessers.
But hey, take your ball and pout. That's the privilege granted to you. It must be nice.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Were as many people throwing tantrums online back then? I feel like I need more reference for what I'm seeing around here.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
This is why i am glad my country doesn't have a two party system.
I don't have to be guilt tripped into voting someone horrible out of fear the someone even more horrible will be elected.
I can vote for someone close to my values.
I don't have to be guilt tripped into voting someone horrible out of fear the someone even more horrible will be elected.
I can vote for someone close to my values.
Primethius
Banned
Never forget Hillaryis44.com
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Well, time makes you smarter.
At least she got there eventually with the times.
Some never will.
Now if you think she's being disingenuous now is another thing altogether...
VendettaRed07
Member
Both parties are the same
Also there's no difference between David duke and my Latin American History professor
The same
Also there's no difference between David duke and my Latin American History professor
The same
gutter_trash
Banned
and she was more left than Barack on health care
People can change their mind on any given issue. I think it's reasonable.
But no, she's a god damned centrist pretending to be a progressive.
*facedesk*
I'd take a legit centrist party so we can avoid this brinksmanship "no true scotsman" bullshit, thanks.
Already Torn
Banned
You just gotta see things from both sides
- Status