Oh so like the others, you don't want to define black. You are acting as if were being coy yet you refuse to explain it.
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Inkling Boy & Girl are the first black non-Mii characters in Mario Kart
- Thread starter Garrett Hawke
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Oh so like the others, you don't want to define black. You are acting as if were being coy yet you refuse to explain it.
Spring-Loaded
Member
This is the "hero vanishes" timeline
I don't even mind people interpreting them as representation of any other people with dark skin. The ridiculous part is people believing "black" can only mean Africa-American/of African descent/Aboriginal/etc., believing that calling them black means "fuck anyone who isn't this very particular type of black," and saying that they can't be interpreted as African-American representation.
From the wiki page you linked:
"Black people is a term used in certain countries, often in socially based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity, to describe persons who are perceived to be dark-skinned compared to other given populations."
There are black people all over the world. The southeast asian people you mention are black. No matter how narrow you're understanding of that concept is, no matter what you immediately jump to upon hearing the word "black," it doesn't change that there are inklings in Splatoon 2 and MK8D who are black.
Dude linked to the wiki page without reading the first sentence. Of course he's going to refuse to lock down his definition without scrutinizing every detail of his post first; just give him time
Principate
Saint Titanfall
You were talking about fucking textured hair to represent black people in game that has squid hair. Did you even think that arguement through.
How exactly do you think a black person would be represented in such a world?
In America, those folks will be "mistaken"as black. Which is why the term "black diaspora" exists. White people made dark skin a bad thing in society through culture and laws, so I'm sure they'll be less angry about being called black than you are.
Lol, if you think Japanese youth came up with all that on their own, and not copying another culture like they do with all the other trends.
LordKasual
Banned
It's a social definition, it means what society wants it to mean. Which also means it's inherently complex and context sensitive.
Which is probably why you desperately want me to attempt to explain in a few sentences a concept that has an entire wiki article dedicated to it.
You have no clue what you're talking about and everyone is wishing you would just come out and say it so we can move on and hopefully the thread will die before more ignorance flares up.
Japanese youth culture is heavily, heavily influenced by Urban African American culture. From the fashion, to performances and performers like Beyoncé, to the way they dance.
Splatoon draws its inspirations from both cultures, imo. Booya Base = Shibuya. The minority representation and diversity of black people in general. Callie and Marie as pop idols from Japan. The urban hip hop influence...
Principate
Saint Titanfall
My issue is more of the use of "tanned" east asians rather than the fact east asians can feel represented by these characters. Because it's not like east asians don't come in all sorts skin shades and who face their own problems of discrimination. No they're "tanned or ganguro" because they can't accept anything else.
Spring-Loaded
Member
If people had come into the thread to say that going by their personal understanding of "black" meant something other than what's said in the OP, this would've been different. There could've been an understanding reached about how different countries/regions generally have slightly different usages of "black" in regard to people.
What actually happened was a select handful of posters went straight into aggressive indignation mode and showed their asses trying to explain how these squid can't be black, or can't be considered representation of black people the world over. Ironically, they believe calling the squid kids black is exclusionary to certain people with dark skin in the real world even though these posters are themselves being exclusionary by saying these inklings are just tanned japanese people (squid mutants?).
Read that benign, innocuous OP and tell me it warranted any garbage like this
That's true; I hadn't even considered that angle.
Read the first sentence of the wiki page you linked, my man. Tell me how the thread title goes against that.
What actually happened was a select handful of posters went straight into aggressive indignation mode and showed their asses trying to explain how these squid can't be black, or can't be considered representation of black people the world over. Ironically, they believe calling the squid kids black is exclusionary to certain people with dark skin in the real world even though these posters are themselves being exclusionary by saying these inklings are just tanned japanese people (squid mutants?).
Read that benign, innocuous OP and tell me it warranted any garbage like this
That's true; I hadn't even considered that angle.
Read the first sentence of the wiki page you linked, my man. Tell me how the thread title goes against that.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
None of these people ever feel the need to say what they think it means but they have absolutely no problem discrediting someone elses.
Funny how that works.
Right. I have two Filipino friends who claim black. I don't knock em, fault em, or argue with them because they are black. They respect their blackness, and they wouldn't call themselves 'tanned'.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
LordKasual
Banned
My dude.
If you don't understand how nonsensical of a question this is, then i'm just not bothering replying to you anymore.
You're a brit? Excellent; go outside and strike a conversation with someone outside of a forum board for a change, then you'll have your answer, okay?
The real funny thing is how you just assumed that my definition of "black" would be inherently offensive to you, for some unexplained reason.
I've discredited nobody's definitions of anything, you're just putting words in my mouth.
Some of you are way more into forming arguments then you are about being practical about anything.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
If people had come into the thread to say that going by their personal understanding of "black" meant something other than what's said in the OP, this would've been different. There could've been an understanding reached about how different countries/regions generally have slightly different usages of "black" in regard to people.
What actually happened was a select handful of posters went straight into aggressive indignation mode and showed their asses trying to explain how these squid can't be black, or can't be considered representation of black people the world over. Ironically, they believe calling the squid kids black is exclusionary to certain people with dark skin in the real world even though these posters are themselves being exclusionary by saying these inklings are just tanned japanese people (squid mutants?).
Read that benign, innocuous OP and tell me it warranted any garbage like this
That's true; I hadn't even considered that angle.
Read the first sentence of the wiki page you linked, my man. Tell me how the thread title goes against that.
Japanese games have some of the worst of. In Hyrule Warriors there's a villain character that's dark skinned and sexual sorcesscess who has been corrupted by gannondorf. Once the influence is removed she becomes pure white and innocent sorceress (as in her skin colour physically changes). It's just so blatant and in your face. It's not even the first instance I've seen of it.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Then why did you come into this thread imply he character was not suppsoed to Africans as well as any other darker skinned race by saying this.
You clearly have a very specific definition of what black means other you wouldn't have written that.
Pray tell why your having an issue now.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Since anecdotal evidence is enough for you, what're your thoughts on this poster's experience?:
And what are your thoughts on the conversations I've had with other black people in the U.S., from France, Morocco, Guinea and Mexico (as a black person, no less) in which they considered "black" to mean "people with dark skin"?
TheRealTalker
Banned
*reading last few pages....
Afro people?, Ethnic Hair Texture?
oh my....
I am East African and me and my family have straight or soft curly hair but are and identify as black
you have to realize that being black is a diverse spectrum and black people have either settled or have been settled (against their will) to multiple places in the world were they formed communities and ingrained societies
Africa alone is a massive continent with multiple black ethnicities
I mean idk what you would call this
okay maybe for some you can also say they are south Indian or Sri Lankan
but it feels like some people just don't want to say they can also be Black
Afro people?, Ethnic Hair Texture?
oh my....
I am East African and me and my family have straight or soft curly hair but are and identify as black
you have to realize that being black is a diverse spectrum and black people have either settled or have been settled (against their will) to multiple places in the world were they formed communities and ingrained societies
Africa alone is a massive continent with multiple black ethnicities
Nintendo isn't as stupid or clueless as some of your guys are making them out to be. They are not trying to represent tanning culture or ganguro, regardless of how committed you get to your faux expertise about japanese culture and societal views; those bits of knowledge are blinding you.
I mean idk what you would call this
okay maybe for some you can also say they are south Indian or Sri Lankan
but it feels like some people just don't want to say they can also be Black
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Ethnic hair texture..lol. The fuck does that mean?
Crimson_Gold
Member
Brillo pads and the worst of sheep wool. It's the only way some people can identify black hair. The overt racism in this thread is amazing. You'd think people would be more aware, but nah. A black character in a Nintendo game is almost as bad as that black guy in the Shadow of War trailer.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I legit want to know what a tentacle version of this would be. Hell, I'd actually want it to be in the game as a "hair" option.
We're talking about a community centered on spending thousands of dollars to stay indoors and press buttons all day. You really think these people get out, much less have actual meaningful relationships with black people, assuming any live where they do? Honestly, this shit is almost guaranteed.
TheRealTalker
Banned
lol I from all this silliness I forgot the fact that they actually don't have hair but tentacles on top of their head
Gordon Shumway
Banned
is that really true?
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's the funniest thing they don't even have human hair and yet people are talking about afro's to designate black characters.
The fuck? Are you guys all high?
Crimson_Gold
Member
This is the best part of it all
Of course they don't. They think we are rap videos in real life. Now we go and Sully their good fun by possibly existing in the world they paid to be in.
Go into any thread that deals with live action anime adaptations.
It's that invisible checklist again.
White and by extension Japanese characters can look like anything. Black people? They can't just have dark skin now. They need more afro features.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Tentacles grow back.
All you need to do is visit your local anime and race relations topic, and you'll see right away, "Japanese animate themselves in the likeliness of white people. Japanese don't have blonde hair and blue eyes like Naruto." and this argument repeats itself over and over throughout the entire topic. Black people are only black in anime, when they have "ethnic" hair and bulbous facial features, because black can't just mean, the amount of melanin you possess. This is what you'll find in those topics.
So yes, it's really true.
LordKasual
Banned
Me implying what my personal interpertation is in this context doesn't change the meaning of the word, nor does it inherently oppose anyone elses.
i'm guessing this thought has never crossed your mind? Or anyone else's mind who is adamant about arguing with me? You guys seem way more interested in an argument of semantics then you are about actually having a conversation about anything that's going to go anywhere.
The same way I feel about my Cambodian friends who are all darker than me who do not identify as "black", would laugh in your face for trying it, and would rather be called "Cambodian".
or the conversations i've had with dark-skinned people from the Dominician Republic who DONT identify as "black" either. Who would only be "mistaken" for "black" in the states, and is a distinction that some people in the states actually would take offense to.
or some creoles in Louisiana, some of which i probably share relation with, who also do not identify as "black", and would rather be called creole.
My feelings are that language is complex and context sensitive. There is no 100% correct usage of the word "black people". Even this definition of "people with dark skin" is offensive to many people around the world, of whom i'm assuming you might have not known about. It requires context, and me assuming a context is no more of an offense then you assuming in broad strokes who it includes and doesn't include, just because you falsely think you're being more inclusive for it.
Somewhere, this thread has just flipped from arguing about accurate representation to the arguing about accuracy itself. I don't even know why I bothered.
Some of you live in this little bizarro bubble universe where only perfect labels (or no labels) exist. But it just makes you sound like you are only ever exposed to this shit on the internet. I would really love to see you discuss this with random people in society to see how they react, it would probably surprise you how varied it would be.
FlutterPuffs
Member
oh for god's sake.
Stop using South East Asians in your argument, even more considering with the racial makeup over here you have a huge plethora of racial features ranging from indian, malayan, to chinese.
Also, as a (brownish) South East Asian, I would have no problems if someone puts me in the brown/black range..
Principate
Saint Titanfall
We're not asking for a general "definition" we're asking specifically for your definition. So tell us what it is.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Honest to god LordKasual, I'm more offended at your argument for this.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Dominican card drop..thread about to get educational.
Thanks for the laugh. No really.
Your definition of black requires me to talk to someone. Hmm, well I guess that isn't working for me. ELI5?
I really want to hear this complicated and sensitive answer for what black is.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
We can't have nice things..
Your logic was terrible the moment you tried to argue with "ethnic hair" and "black people with a wig/perm".
Also, Black =/= Ethnicity. Dominicans are black, lol. They're Spanish speaking black people, they share an island with Haiti for goodness sake.
It just sounds like you and your black friends feel uncomfortable claiming their blackness. If someone from Egypt called themselves black, I wouldn't go, "No you're EGYPTIAN!" just like if someone asked me my race, I wouldn't say, "Brazilian." I'd say I was AfroLatino/AfroBrazilian or Black.
People are triggered by the word black, because it has negative connotations, stigmas, and prejudices throughout ALL cultures. So of course many people will gasp at the idea that they could possibly be grouped in with "those blacks."
You're literally proving everyone's point, lol.
Crimson_Gold
Member
So what's this guy? I'm curious
We don't need to directly ask LordKasual what black means to him because he already told us in his first post:
"ethnic hair textures"
Any range of skin color is fine but so long as you have "ethnic hair textures" then it obviously it's a black character (if the characters happen to lack design traits that would allow for something akin to human hair to be displayed, lol, sorry black people but you're SOL, even with that dark skinned character. You do not get to feel represented.)
It's weird how black people apparently cannot lay any claim to dark skinned characters now, but our high range of hair textures and styles are being artificially limited to what people consider "ethnic textures."
I mean fuck. By that measure I guess I'm not fucking black then.
"ethnic hair textures"
Any range of skin color is fine but so long as you have "ethnic hair textures" then it obviously it's a black character (if the characters happen to lack design traits that would allow for something akin to human hair to be displayed, lol, sorry black people but you're SOL, even with that dark skinned character. You do not get to feel represented.)
It's weird how black people apparently cannot lay any claim to dark skinned characters now, but our high range of hair textures and styles are being artificially limited to what people consider "ethnic textures."
I mean fuck. By that measure I guess I'm not fucking black then.
FlutterPuffs
Member
So what's this guy? I'm curious
"Mako tanned"
Now we trying to get deep. As a cajun creole, I identified as black until recently when I did some more reading and found out how Africans see us, as those taken away, so I identify as African American now, but I'm still black and proud in a country that​ is systematically trying to erase anything about my people while reaping the rewards of our labor to build this shit hole of a nation. But you're ​not talking about this, because you don't know shit.
To touch on why your words hurt and why people will continue to get frustrated with your stupidity (we're past ignorance now)One of my creole grandmas identifies so deeply with "black," literally hates light skinned black folks, will constantly talk trash if they show up on TV, and we're light skinned and she's lighter than Pharrell. But because of words like yours and the rest of the world, she must continue to prove her blackness to other blacks, all the while being punished by the rest of society for looking like us.
So kindly fuck off.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Now it all makes sense. I've been wrong for about 20 years.
LordKasual
Banned
Holy shit, do you know what an anecdote is?
You guys really aren't reading these posts. This is ridiculous
by all means, go find these people and tell them how they're wrong. I'm sure they'll thank you for the correction and be your bestest friend afterwards.
I've posted more than enough times for you to use your reading comprehension skills to piece together a general answer for your question. But I don't have much faith in that, nor am i going to waste time trying to fix it.
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