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Western Animation |OT| Cartoon, Cartoon, Cartoon

D

DeadPhoenix

Member
RedHoodedOwl said:
The Little Shop of Horrors, Rambo, and Conan the Barbarian had animated shows.
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Conan the Adventurer(was barbarian to hardcore for kids or something?) is probably the reason why I have this screen name(well the phoenix part, not so much the dead part). I pretty much remember nothing else about I though... I'm sure it was great.
 
U

unknownstranger

Member
Wow I completely forgot about Rocket Monkeys. Most shows that do bad on Nick go to Nicktoons quickly. Rocket Monkeys didn't do even that, or at least not very long.
 
R

RedHoodedOwl

Member
DeadPhoenix said:
Conan the Adventurer(was barbarian to hardcore for kids or something?) is probably the reason why I have this screen name(well the phoenix part, not so much the dead part). I pretty much remember nothing else about I though... I'm sure it was great.
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Conan's sword teleporting Snakemen back to their homeworld instead of killing them.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Over in the MLP movie trailer thread, there is some grumbling about the fact that the trailer, poster, and movie fact sheet highlight the guest voices, but say nothing about Tara Strong, Andrea Libman, Tabitha St. Germain, Ashleigh Ball, or Cathy Weseluck. As in, the people actually playing the lead roles.

While I can understand why they are only talking about the guest voices, I can also see how frustrating it can be for these major VAs to be treated as second class in promotions, especially when, again, they are playing the lead roles.

What do you guys think of this?
 
P

Psxphile

Member
I think Hollywood's fascination with signing big-name talent for their animated films instead of respected veteran VAs is part of the reason why movie price tags can be quite obscene. It's all marketing to them, so what's an extra million to get Steve Carrell to voice the lead?

Fortunately for the most part they do a good job so no one really complains.
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
I remember thinking it was messed up, looking at a movie poster for Transformers the Movie a couple of decades ago, seeing that it was "starring" the likes of Orson Welles, Judd Nelson (who?), Leonard Nimoy (Yay! But... what?), and Robert Stack (the Unsolved Mysteries guy). The original crew, Peter Cullen, Frank Welker, Chris Latta... these guys were heroes to me and they were tossed to the side like no-name amateurs. And it was especially bothersome since I had already known that none of these new guys were bothering to stick around to reprise their roles in season 3.

It's just how the industry works. Voice acting is considered a lesser form of acting, roughly on par with TV commercials and non-speaking background-extra work.

I also remember bitching in the MLP thread about how Hasbro sidelined Rebecca Shoichet (Sunset Shimmer's VA) in Equestria Girls 2: Rainbow Rocks, a movie seemingly built around Shoichet/Sunset Shimmer, because they needed to push Tara Strong/Twilight Sparkle into the center stage, because Tara is a bigger star than the rest of the Mane 6, who are themselves bigger stars than Rebecca.

And then EG3 did a better job of pushing Twilight Sparkle into the lead, but after EG2 I couldn't help but see it for what it was, cynical Hollywood maneuvering.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Psxphile said:
I think Hollywood's fascination with signing big-name talent for their animated films instead of respected veteran VAs is part of the reason why movie price tags can be quite obscene. It's all marketing to them, so what's an extra million to get Steve Carrell to voice the lead?

Fortunately for the most part they do a good job so no one really complains.
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As far as I can tell, the budgets of animated movies are far more affected by technical aspects than the celebrity voice casts, so I'm not really following.

Cheerilee said:
I remember thinking it was messed up, looking at a movie poster for Transformers the Movie a couple of decades ago, seeing that it was "starring" the likes of Orson Welles, Judd Nelson (who?), Leonard Nimoy (Yay! But... what?), and Robert Stack (the Unsolved Mysteries guy). The original crew, Peter Cullen, Frank Welker, Chris Latta... these guys were heroes to me and they were tossed to the side like no-name amateurs. And it was especially bothersome since I had already known that none of these new guys were bothering to stick around to reprise their roles in season 3.
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Oh yeah, the first Transformers movie would have shown the phenomenon too. To be fair, in that case, they did specifically kill off many of the old characters, so it makes sense to credit the new guys over them. Not that killing off everyone was a good idea.

It's just how the industry works. Voice acting is considered a lesser form of acting, roughly on par with TV commercials and non-speaking background-extra work.

I also remember bitching in the MLP thread about how Hasbro sidelined Rebecca Shoichet (Sunset Shimmer's VA) in Equestria Girls 2: Rainbow Rocks, a movie seemingly built around Shoichet/Sunset Shimmer, because they needed to push Tara Strong/Twilight Sparkle into the center stage, because Tara is a bigger star than the rest of the Mane 6, who are themselves bigger stars than Rebecca.

And then EG3 did a better job of pushing Twilight Sparkle into the lead, but after EG2 I couldn't help but see it for what it was, cynical Hollywood maneuvering.
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And another argument I don't quite follow. If your complaint is that Sunset doesn't get showcased enough in the Equestria Girls movies, I doubt that has to do with a deliberate effort to highlight Tara Strong above everyone else. With Rainbow Rocks, the scenes focusing on Sunset were added late in the writing process, and Sunset didn't actually become that popular with fans until after the movie came out, so of course the toys and promotion would just focus on the Main Six. With Friendship Games, they focused on Twilight because they had to follow up the ending hook from Rainbow Rocks. Since then, Twilight and Sunset have received about equal focus.
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
SigmasonicX said:
And another argument I don't quite follow. If your complaint is that Sunset doesn't get showcased enough in the Equestria Girls movies, I doubt that has to do with a deliberate effort to highlight Tara Strong above everyone else. With Rainbow Rocks, the scenes focusing on Sunset were added late in the writing process, and Sunset didn't actually become that popular with fans until after the movie came out, so of course the toys and promotion would just focus on the Main Six. With Friendship Games, they focused on Twilight because they had to follow up the ending hook from Rainbow Rocks. Since then, Twilight and Sunset have received about equal focus.
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I had heard that the official word is that Twilight was planned to be in EG2 from the very beginning, but I don't really buy that explanation. Or at the very least, I think the writers were assigned to create an EG2 (that included Twilight/Tara), and then they figured out a way to do an EG2 movie that didn't include Twilight/Tara, but then they were forced to rethink their ideas because Twilight/Tara is the star of MLP:FIM.

EG1 was a simple Twilight/Tara-focused strange-world adventure story which ended conclusively. EG2 had to super-blantantly technobabble a solution to break the rule they had just established which said that Twilight/Tara's EG1 story was finished. And then Twilight/Tara's character added essentially nothing to the story of EG2. The story of EG2 was Sunset Shimmer's redemption following the events of EG1. They had a new set of villains overpower the Mane 6 Mane 5 Mane 6 (something that would've worked better if it was just the Mane 5, minus Twilight), until the redeemed villain from EG1 stepped up and became a new hero who could take the absent hero's place. The movie is all about Sunset Shimmer, and is actually made worse by Twilight Sparkle's unnecessary presence.

And yet, Tara Strong got top billing on that movie, while Rebecca Shoichet got sixth billing (after Cathy Weseluck's essential performance as Spike the Dog). That's pretty much a disgrace, and it was clear to a lot of people that Hasbro really had no clue what was making that movie work and what wasn't.

So what does Hasbro do with the next movie? Pretty much the exact same thing again, but this time with Twilight as the redeemed villain while Sunset Shimmer props her up. They could've done anything with the Sci-Twi teaser from the end of Rainbow Rocks, but they chose to have Sunset job to Twilight, because Sunset Shimmer accidentally put the failed EG experiment back on the map with Rainbow Rocks, and that can't be allowed to happen because Twilight/Tara is the star.

In the fourth movie, same thing. Sunset and Twilight are supposedly a duo, but Twilight gets the primary focus.

At least by the third/fourth movies, they've recognized that Sunset Shimmer makes the EG series, so they've given Rebecca Shoichet second billing, after Tara Strong (because that's how star power works).
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Cheerilee said:
I had heard that the official word is that Twilight was planned to be in EG2 from the very beginning, but I don't really buy that explanation. Or at the very least, I think the writers were assigned to create an EG2 (that included Twilight/Tara), and then they figured out a way to do an EG2 movie that didn't include Twilight/Tara, but then they were forced to rethink their ideas because Twilight/Tara is the star of MLP:FIM.
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The scene that Meghan claims inspired her to focus the story more on Sunset was the part where Twilight and Sunset talk in Pinkie's house. Considering that, it makes no sense for there to have ever been a point where Twilight wasn't in the movie. Yes, the story would have worked better without Twilight, but hindsight is 20/20. Take Magic the Gathering's Battle for Zendikar block. In retrospect, they should have introduced the new colorless mana symbol and "colorless mana matters" in the first set, which was obvious to all players and the developers acknowledge it, but due to how the game design process went, it wasn't introduced until the second set.

And yet, Tara Strong got top billing on that movie, while Rebecca Shoichet got sixth billing (after Cathy Weseluck's essential performance as Spike the Dog). That's pretty much a disgrace, and it was clear to a lot of people that Hasbro really had no clue what was making that movie work and what wasn't.
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The main characters from the TV show got top billing before the then side character, and they put her higher in the credits after she was established as a main character. I don't see the issue.

So what does Hasbro do with the next movie? Pretty much the exact same thing again, but this time with Twilight as the redeemed villain while Sunset Shimmer props her up. They could've done anything with the Sci-Twi teaser from the end of Rainbow Rocks, but they chose to have Sunset job to Twilight, because Sunset Shimmer accidentally put the failed EG experiment back on the map with Rainbow Rocks, and that can't be allowed to happen because Twilight/Tara is the star.
Click to expand...

We know from deleted scenes that Sunset had a more detailed subplot, and it was far enough along to be voiced. It was a dumb subplot that I'm glad is mostly gone, and I'm pretty sure that's why they removed it, not some effort to make Tara more important than Rebecca. And Sunset jobbed to Twilight? Did I misinterpret the climax where Sunset battled Midnight Sparkle on her own and defeated her?

In the fourth movie, same thing. Sunset and Twilight are supposedly a duo, but Twilight gets the primary focus.

At least by the third/fourth movies, they've recognized that Sunset Shimmer makes the EG series, so they've given Rebecca Shoichet second billing, after Tara Strong (because that's how star power works).
Click to expand...

I really think you're making something out of nothing. Besides, what does it matter what order the characters appear in during the opening credits? Sunset is still listed in the opening credits! She gets shorts specifically focused on her while Twilight hasn't gotten any yet, and she's one of the focus characters of the "Mirror Magic" special while Twilight isn't the focus of any special.

Anyway, have you watched the movie trailer yet? I notice you didn't make a post in the trailer topic about it yet. Make sure to post it in that thread instead of making this thread too pony-focused >_>
 
U

unknownstranger

Member
The 2nd Spongebob Squarepants movie is all over Nick this weekend (with the first one airing again as well). This was my first time watching it. Thought it was really good, but the ending is kind of a mess.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Over in the MLP movie trailer thread, there is some grumbling about the fact that the trailer, poster, and movie fact sheet highlight the guest voices, but say nothing about Tara Strong, Andrea Libman, Tabitha St. Germain, Ashleigh Ball, or Cathy Weseluck. As in, the people actually playing the lead roles.

While I can understand why they are only talking about the guest voices, I can also see how frustrating it can be for these major VAs to be treated as second class in promotions, especially when, again, they are playing the lead roles.

What do you guys think of this?
Click to expand...

I'm sure a chunk of it has to do with their negotiations for being in the movie in the first place. The big name stars demand top billing through their agents as part of the package.

I mean, it's not like either of the key audiences for this movie (little girls or the nerdy adult fans) know or care who Sia is (i've never heard of her before this!), so it's not going to get more people to go, it's just that Sia's agent negotiates prominent featuring for her in the movie's promotional materials as part of the deal. It's Sia advertising Sia, not Sia advertising Friendship Is Magic The Movie.

Though in some cases the voice is designed to sell the movie directly, in a lot of cases its about selling the voice's career.
 
B

Blues1990

Member
I've been trying to create an animation-themed Cards Against Humanity deck, and I was wondering if some of you could help me brainstorm some ideas. So far, I created a Rocky and Bullwinkle card with the line "Hey Rocky, watch me pull_out of my_!" & Bugs Bunny's "Of course you know this will not go_." black cards.
 
B

Baron von Loathsome

Member
Blues1990 said:
I've been trying to create an animation-themed Cards Against Humanity deck, and I was wondering if some of you could help me brainstorm some ideas. So far, I created a Rocky and Bullwinkle card with the line "Hey Rocky, watch me pull_out of my_!" & Bugs Bunny's "Of course you know this will not go_." black cards.
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"___: What Do They Know? Do They Know Things? Let's Find Out!"
 
R

RedHoodedOwl

Member
Ladybug is such a boring show. It's the typical MOTW episodes with a complete lack of an actual story or character progression, it's really disappointing.
 
T

TheGreatDirector

Banned
Alright, since it's Independence Day, what everyone's favorite American moments from cartoons?

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1

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giphy.gif
 
Z

zulux21

Member
Just a friendly reminder of a few dates of interest this month.

july 15th - star vs forces of evil movie special (aka the first 4 episodes of season 3 in movie format)
july 22nd - return of milo murphy's law.
 
P

Psxphile

Member
zulux21 said:
Just a friendly reminder of a few dates of interest this month.

july 15th - star vs forces of evil movie special (aka the first 4 episodes of season 3 in movie format)
july 22nd - return of milo murphy's law.
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I would like to add, though still not confirmed by the network at this point, that Adventure Time might be returning with a week's worth of new episodes starting on the 17th... if Zap2it's listed air times are to be believed. Which they have been hit-or-miss about these days. Well, we did recently get a title card reveal of the first episode of the bomb via King of Ooo, which usually precipitates an actual episode airing so... yeah.
 
Z

zulux21

Member
Psxphile said:
I would like to add, though still not confirmed by the network at this point, that Adventure Time might be returning with a week's worth of new episodes starting on the 17th... if Zap2it's listed air times are to be believed. Which they have been hit-or-miss about these days. Well, we did recently get a title card reveal of the first episode of the bomb via King of Ooo, which usually precipitates an actual episode airing so... yeah.
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it also wouldn't be surprising if steven universe showed back up at the end of the month especially with episode titles starting to come out.

beyond that ideally we will get a date from netflix soon for ladybug as it sounds like not only is season 2 done, the majority of season 3 is already written (not animated which is a huge chunk of time but still) rumors are that it didn't fall from the spring release because it fell behind production, but because netflix picked up the rights and wanted to release it in all languages that it gets dubbed at the same time, so recording on that is what is holding things up.

the loud house also comes back July 24, 2017 which I had just forgotten to include.
 
P

Psxphile

Member
For those with Netflix, the new Castlevania OVA series debuts today. Seems to be getting some good reviews, and they've already announced it's been greenlit for a second season with double the episode count.
 
Z

zulux21

Member
Psxphile said:
For those with Netflix, the new Castlevania OVA series debuts today. Seems to be getting some good reviews, and they've already announced it's been greenlit for a second season with double the episode count.
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yeah watching it now, and am sad I forgot to list it with my date update lol.

anyways my thoughts that I posted in animegaf.

Castlevania Ep 1

As a first episode of an anime series this is alright. Not a great story but doesn't look bad, and interesting enough but not super gripping. likely would be more interesting if I remembered anything about the castlevania storyline at all. I should go back and play them a bit.

but lets ignore that, lets not treat it like anime, let me take a moment to appreciate what it actually is.

It's a western funded cartoon aimed at adults that isn't a comedy.
It also happens to be a cartoon based off a video game series.

As either of those it is stellar. There aren't really any story driven or action driven western cartoons airing right now. You could make arguments for stuff like steven universe or star vs the forces of evil (and technically young justice season 3 is supposed to exist), but in general those are still marketed are more comedies and they are surely not aimed at adults. The other things for adults such as family guy, bobs burgers, archer, bojack are all clearly comedy first (though bojack can dabble with serious drama from time to time still not really story driven or action driven) Getting something like Castlevania, and having it even be decent is a huge win. Here's hoping the viewer numbers are there as well. Either way as an adaption of a video game animated and aimed at adults this really does have the possibility of reshaping western cartoons into the era that I have been hoping they would get to for well over a decade.

I am likely putting to much hope into this, but if it is successful we easily could see more cartoons aimed at adults at least popping up on netflix. As that happens there is a good chance they would start being produced for other places playing catch up as well. While there is zero chance we will ever reach japan's level of adult aimed cartoons, maybe just maybe this will help us get towards 1-2 adult aimed cartoon series a year made for western adults.

tl;dr; while the first episode didn't impress me as an episode in general, the quality for the target audience is great.
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C

Choppasmith

Member
So, anyone else been watching the new season of Penn Zero on DXD? Seems like Disney is just quickly burning through the episodes. I mean, I wouldn't say the show is super brilliant or anything, but it's fun! And Rippen (Alfred Molina) and Larry (Larry Wilmore) are the best damn villain duo since Pinky and the Brain.
 
X

Xe4

Banned
RedHoodedOwl said:
Infinity Train and Craig of the Creek doesn't have a chance against the marathons of TTG.
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To be fair, stuff like SU has a pretty good following, despite TT:Go and Gumball being marathoned basically all day every day. New shows just needs a good following and they'll do alright. Will they get that following?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
X

Xe4

Banned
RedHoodedOwl said:
CN completely buried Justice League Action and the recent Transformers series.The timeslots for these shows were so horrible.
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That's true. I don't think either have the kind of potential for a following like Infinity Train, however. It's unfortunate, but I think shows can overcome being placed at unfortunate hours.
 
R

RedHoodedOwl

Member
Xe4 said:
That's true. I don't think either have the kind of potential for a following like Infinity Train, however. It's unfortunate, but I think shows can overcome being placed at unfortunate hours.
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I know but I'm really just venting out my frustration regarding CN's scheduling habits.
 
X

Xe4

Banned
Alastor3 said:
Beside Gravity Falls, any good adult animation that is completed ?
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Samurai Jack S5
tumblr_oqadfv2TgL1qetqrbo6_500.gif

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Lastman (French production with no official sub or dub yet):
lastman_gif_promo06_siri.gif

lastman_gif_promo03.gif


Netflix's Castlevania
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There's a few more, but they're much older. 2017 has been *amazing* for adult action cartoons.
Edit: Oh, completed as in story complete? I thought you meant out of production. Scratch Castlevania from that list, and possibly Lastman (though there's likely never going to be a season 2).
 
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