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[ResilientBanana]

Forza Motorsport, Forza Horizon, Gears of War, Halo, Sea of Thieves etc etc can be played on PC, so theres that.

They have said themselves they want to be "on every device."

Hell, their slogan is Xbox play anywhere

Due to dev tools games are easy to compile from system to system, but he’s right, Xbox doesn’t run PC games and PCs don’t run Xbox games. The whole point of developer tools for consoles is to squeeze the juice out of them and use their specialized API to produce good looking games on a smaller performance budget.

This is from June. Plans most likely changed.

 

[sonomamashine]

No, for Lockhart to not limit the next gen games, the CPU and RAM setup have to be identical to the Scarlet. In other words, the scaling of the visuals (resolution, details etc) is perfectly doable if the only hardware variable is the GPU (i.e. PS4 to PS4 pro). But if you only have 8GB of RAM in Lockhart and 24GB of RAM in Scarlett, a developer making a game that has to run on both will in fact be limited by the 8GB of RAM. Assets, geometry, world size, texture resolution etc will have to fit within the 8GB envelope meaning that it won't be taking advantage of the scale and level of detail possible with 24GB for example.

Half the CPU and like 2/3 the RAM of Scarlett is my guess. But maybe it'll have a cut down OS that doesn't reserve as much memory.

............. 8GB Vram boys.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Due to dev tools games are easy to compile from system to system, but he’s right, Xbox doesn’t run PC games and PCs don’t run Xbox games. The whole point of developer tools for consoles is to squeeze the juice out of them and use their specialized API to produce good looking games on a smaller performance budget.

This is from June. Plans most likely changed.

I was more referring to what the Devs said about the lower powered console, not that is was dead.

 

[Mass Shift]

Lockhart is what?

Forgive me I'm using a Kindle right now and it's auto correct has alot of funky issues. I'm going to disable it. And the screen jumps when you reply to a post, so it ended up quoting when it shouldn't have.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

June rumor says Lockhart was hard to develop for. November rumor says Microsoft has just started sending our devkits.

 

[Thedtrain]

Jesus Matt is so full of shit its unreal. I am 100% this guy knows fuck all. Fucking resetera role playing dev sources...

Haha for once I agree with you.

Colbert is something else too... very “Holier than thou“

 

[Bladed Thesis]

They all do that though. Role play as insiders and try to say something that can hit close to the mark to vindicate them in the eyes of the forum. They love their clout.

 

[R600]

June rumor says Lockhart was hard to develop for. November rumor says Microsoft has just started sending our devkits.

I think MS has just been spreading false rumours.

 

[Racer!]

Due to dev tools games are easy to compile from system to system, but he’s right, Xbox doesn’t run PC games and PCs don’t run Xbox games. The whole point of developer tools for consoles is to squeeze the juice out of them and use their specialized API to produce good looking games on a smaller performance budget.

This is from June. Plans most likely changed.

Of course it requires recompilation/reworking, thats not the point. The need to make your game run on several platforms on low min spec guides game design. Ask any game developer.

 

[Fake]

Jesus Matt is so full of shit its unreal.

Matt is a traditional resetera user even if he quited from there still reflect his personality. I disagree only ONE tweet from him and he block me from twitter.
Those guys really need to find mental help.

 

[R600]

Haha for once I agree with you.

Colbert is something else too... very “Holier than thou“

Yea but at least he is not mod role playing 1st tier source like Matt.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I think MS has just been spreading false rumours.

Or even worse, MS isn't saying anything and "insiders" are spreading false rumors. Go back and read insiders' E3 predictions.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Of course it requires recompilation/reworking, thats not the point. The need to make your game run on several platforms on low min spec guides game design. Ask any game developer.

Right, but both the PS4 and Scarlet have a huge limitation that puts all them TFLOPS at a disadvantage, that limitation is 4K. But there is usually a toggle for favoring Performance or Resolution as it is. 4K is the biggest hurdle for these new consoles, not the lower tier console. Both MS and Sony are big on buzz words and you better believe they will want to deliver on 4K content on their exclusive games. The lower tier console makes sense and will favor performance over fidelity and resolution. That will be the only difference.

The CPU and the SSD in any case is the deal breaker, not the GPU. If you want bigger more believable worlds with more AI, Physics, etc. The CPU and SSD is where that comes into play.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Of course it requires recompilation/reworking, thats not the point. The need to make your game run on several platforms on low min spec guides game design. Ask any game developer.

PC gaming says hello.

 

[Racer!]

Right, but both the PS4 and Scarlet have a huge limitation that puts all them TFLOPS at a disadvantage, that limitation is 4K. But there is usually a toggle for favoring Performance or Resolution as it is. 4K is the biggest hurdle for these new consoles, not the lower tier console. Both MS and Sony are big on buzz words and you better believe they will want to deliver on 4K content on their exclusive games. The lower tier console makes sense and will favor performance over fidelity and resolution. That will be the only difference.

4K is not written in stone, it will be on a game to game basis, just like framerate. Dynamic resolution scaling and cbr will be balanced in regards to game assets and what the developer is trying to achieve.

There may very well be 1440p cbr games on PS5.

 

[Racer!]

PC gaming says hello.

Indeed. PC gaming is the perfect example of wasted performance because of need to scale. You would see much more impressive looking games if the developer could target 2080ti only.

Which I guess we will see with PS5 atleast. Not to mention the extremely efficient storage streaming solution. If game engines are built around that, PC gaming and Microsofts compatibility quest are going to suffer.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Indeed. PC gaming is the perfect example of wasted performance because of need to scale. You would see much more impressive looking games if the developer could target 2080ti only. Which I guess we will see with PS5 atleast.

> 2080ti
> PS5

Yikes.

 

[Racer!]

> 2080ti
> PS5

Yikes.

Good job of totally missing the point.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Indeed. PC gaming is the perfect example of wasted performance because of need to scale. You would see much more impressive looking games if the developer could target 2080ti only.

Which I guess we will see with PS5 atleast. Not to mention the extremely efficient storage streaming solution. If game engines are built around that, PC gaming and Microsofts compatibility quest are going to suffer.

You think we will get at least the performance of over a current thousand dollar video card in a $500 console in a year?

Prepare for disappointment

 

[Racer!]

You think we will get at least the performance of over a current thousand dollar video card in a $500 console in a year?

Prepare for disappointment

Its probably around 11-12 tf, its in the ballpark. The point though is that its a fixed target spec. Add to that an extremely efficient storage and memory solution, not seen currently on PC.

 

[magnumpy]

Good job of totally missing the point.

pc games are largely developed for console and then ported to pcs. 2080ti isn't really relevant in that regard.

 

[Racer!]

pc games are largely developed for console and then ported to pcs. 2080ti isn't really relevant in that regard.

Thats my point exactly, and whats going to happen with Lockhart. You always port up, or else you break the game.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Jesus Matt is so full of shit its unreal. I am 100% this guy knows fuck all. Fucking resetera role playing dev sources...

I never believed anything he said. He never had any real info that wasn’t already out elsewhere. He’s a phony.

 

[ResilientBanana]

4K is not written in stone, it will be on a game to game basis, just like framerate. Dynamic resolution scaling and cbr will be balanced in regards to game assets and what the developer is trying to achieve.

There may very well be 1440p cbr games on PS5.

If 4K is not written in stone, sure. Meanwhile they will be touting Native 4K till the cows come home.

 

[Croatoan]

pc games are largely developed for console and then ported to pcs. 2080ti isn't really relevant in that regard.

Wait what? PC games are developed for PC on a PC. PC games like Tarkov and PUBG were not developed for console then ported to PC.

3rd party games that are planning to target consoles and PC are developed similarly but must make sure they will run on the respective consoles. For this reason they generally developed on engines that can "Scale" (Like UE4). There is very little "Porting" that goes on as these engines are designed to deploy to all devices with minimal tweaking.

For example if you are using UE4, like we do, you just develop your game using the lowest spec machine as your baseline. You can the deploy to the others with very minimal changes.

Porting is sort of a misnomer these days since most engines are scalable. The biggest issues usually come down to hitting performance/networking goals and creating controls for each system (Controler vs M&KB). The only time something gets truly "Ported" to PC anymore is if the engine was only ever designed to run on Console and needs to be rewritten to work on a variety of machines. Stuff like MCC, Dark Souls, and Dragon's Dogma are recent examples of true "Ports".

I would say that it is fair to claim a game like Tarkov would need to be "Ported" though because it would need a significant redesign of the control scheme to work on console. Even so that is more of an edit than a "port" in the traditional since.

 

[bitbydeath]

You think we will get at least the performance of over a current thousand dollar video card in a $500 console in a year?

Prepare for disappointment

Getting new and expensive hardware in a cheap console has always been a common staple for this industry and 13TF isn’t as far fetched as 8TF given what we know so far.

 

[CyberPanda]

Regarding Lockhart from a 3rd party dev.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Wait what? PC games are developed for PC on a PC. PC games like Tarkov and PUBG were not developed for console then ported to PC.

3rd party games that are planning to target consoles and PC are developed similarly but must make sure they will run on the respective consoles. For this reason they generally developed on engines that can "Scale" (Like UE4). There is very little "Porting" that goes on as these engines are designed to deploy to all devices with minimal tweaking.

For example if you are using UE4, like we do, you just develop your game using the lowest spec machine as your baseline. You can the deploy to the others with very minimal changes.

Porting is sort of a misnomer these days since most engines are scalable. The biggest issues usually come down to hitting performance/networking goals and creating controls for each system (Controler vs M&KB). The only time something gets truly "Ported" to PC anymore is if the engine was only ever designed to run on Console and needs to be rewritten to work on a variety of machines. Stuff like MCC, Dark Souls, and Dragon's Dogma are recent examples of true "Ports".

I would say that it is fair to claim a game like Tarkov would need to be "Ported" though because it would need a significant redesign of the control scheme to work on console. Even so that is more of an edit than a "port" in the traditional since.

Regarding Lockhart from a 3rd party dev.

It’s good to know I’m not crazy.

 

[FrostyJ93]

Regarding Lockhart from a 3rd party dev.

Wow sounds like what Syco and I have been saying.

 

[magnumpy]

Wait what? PC games are developed for PC on a PC. PC games like Tarkov and PUBG were not developed for console then ported to PC.

3rd party games that are planning to target consoles and PC are developed similarly but must make sure they will run on the respective consoles. For this reason they generally developed on engines that can "Scale" (Like UE4). There is very little "Porting" that goes on as these engines are designed to deploy to all devices with minimal tweaking.

For example if you are using UE4, like we do, you just develop your game using the lowest spec machine as your baseline. You can the deploy to the others with very minimal changes.

Porting is sort of a misnomer these days since most engines are scalable. The biggest issues usually come down to hitting performance/networking goals and creating controls for each system (Controler vs M&KB). The only time something gets truly "Ported" to PC anymore is if the engine was only ever designed to run on Console and needs to be rewritten to work on a variety of machines. Stuff like MCC, Dark Souls, and Dragon's Dogma are recent examples of true "Ports".

I would say that it is fair to claim a game like Tarkov would need to be "Ported" though because it would need a significant redesign of the control scheme to work on console. Even so that is more of an edit than a "port" in the traditional since.

perhaps I wasn't specific enough with my words. rather I should say that games currently are developed for ~ps4/xb1 level system requirements and then are ported from there. their gpu, cpu, and ram requirements are generally set at those levels, while games like star citizen are clearly in a distinct minority. that will change with next gen consoles, but we aren't there yet.

 

[Negotiator]

I don't know why we should trust DF anymore.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I don't know why we should trust DF anymore.

I wasnt talking about Lockhart being dead just more the concerns Devs expressed to them over the lower powered machine.

 

[FrostyJ93]

I wasnt talking about Lockhart being dead just more the concerns Devs expressed to them over the lower powered machine.

See CurryPanda's post.

 

[SlimySnake]

Regarding Lockhart from a 3rd party dev.

that post makes zero sense whatsoever. consoles arent pcs and PCs are always held back by base consoles. witcher 3, anthem and watch dogs were all shown running on pc hardware and were downgraded on PC because of shitty ps4 and x1 gpus.

PC games also up the minimum requirements every year. the latest games are using the 1060 as the minimum spec. its far more powerful than a xbox one and on par with the xbox one x. when next gen arrives, 2070 will become the minimum spec. thats just how its always been. everything below it will be ignored and left to their own devices.

no one will bother optimizing next gen games for any 4 tflops gpu. no one. and with next gen consoles including 16gb of vram, there is a strong possibility that all these 4-8gb gpus will be outdated anyway.

 

[R600]

that post makes zero sense whatsoever. consoles arent pcs and PCs are always held back by base consoles. witcher 3, anthem and watch dogs were all shown running on pc hardware and were downgraded on PC because of shitty ps4 and x1 gpus.

PC games also up the minimum requirements every year. the latest games are using the 1060 as the minimum spec. its far more powerful than a xbox one and on par with the xbox one x. when next gen arrives, 2070 will become the minimum spec. thats just how its always been. everything below it will be ignored and left to their own devices.

no one will bother optimizing next gen games for any 4 tflops gpu. no one. and with next gen consoles including 16gb of vram, there is a strong possibility that all these 4-8gb gpus will be outdated anyway.

What is there to optimize if GPU is 1:1 (bar TFLOPs)?

You literally have two exact same consoles, with same arch and design except one is 9-10TF other is 4-5TF. But one is shooting for 4K native, other is 1080/1440p? Its easiest thing to scale and its very smart of MS to notice that.

Imagine PS4 having 1.8TF and Xbone having 1TF. You would run Xbone games at 800p and PS4 at 1080p and they would perform pretty much the same, only resolution would be 40% lower.

That was the case this gen, even with different RAM and BW, and completely different console manufacturers. For Anaconda > Lockhart it will be even more straightforward.

Just look at Xbox One X v Xbox One. 3x more overall BW, 5x the FLOPs, different arch and yet you still can easily scale any game to work on both.

 

[Fake]

Wow sounds like what Syco and I have been saying.

Wow you two should receive an award.

Anw, some devs complain about those bunch of hardwares, others see no problem. Vary between devs.

 

[FrostyJ93]

You two should receive an award.

Anw, some devs complain about those bunch of hardwares, others see no problem. Vary between devs.

Its their job regardless. They will make it work. Its what they get paid to do.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Its their job regardless. They will make it work. Its what they get paid to do.

Yeah like Bethesda

 

[FrostyJ93]

Yeah like Bethesda

Oh trust I call them out on their shit aaaaall the time. Not here but in other segments of the game community.

 

[sonomamashine]

You literally have two exact same consoles, with same arch and design except one is 9-10TF other is 4-5TF. But one is shooting for 4K native, other is 1080/1440p? Its easiest thing to scale and its very smart of MS to notice that.

9-10TF 4k/1400, 22CU 5.19TF 1080 & even 1440 low.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Oh trust I call them out on their shit aaaaall the time. Not here but in other segments of the game community.

Yeah lol I was just pointing out how diff architecture or hardware could be problematic, tht was just an example tht came to me when you made tht comment.

 

[FrostyJ93]

Yeah lol I was just pointing out how diff architecture or hardware could be problematic, tht was just an example tht came to me when you made tht comment.

They'll be the same architectures. GDDR6, Zen2 etc just lockhart will be lower level most likely.

 

[ResilientBanana]

It’s funny to think the GPU is the limiting factor for games.

 

[nikolino840]

Ps5 6 years Life cycle?
ITO: Indeed, in the past, the cycle for a new platform was 7 to 10 years, but in view of the very rapid development and evolution of technology, it’s really a six to seven year platform cycle. Then we cannot fully catch up with the rapid development of the technology, therefore our thinking is that as far as a platform is concerned for the PS5, it’s a cycle of maybe six to seven years. But doing that, a platform lifecycle, we should be able to change the hardware itself and try to incorporate advancements in technology. That was the thinking behind it, and the test case of that thinking was the PS4 Pro that launched in the midway of the PS4 launch cycle.

The First 25 Years

An oral history of Sony’s big gaming play, and how it changed the world

www.gameinformer.com

 

[Gamernyc78]

They'll be the same architectures. GDDR6, Zen2 etc just lockhart will be lower level most likely.

OH I know. For the most part but thts why I through in different hardware. We've all been discussing svaking and how devs handle tht.

 

[FrostyJ93]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yeah because all the iphones are totally different in power.

Terrible analogy that screams pure fan boy.

And it will in fact confuse buyers, not hard core gamers that are on forums like these but moms looking to buy kids a new console for Christmas will care about that price.

 

[FrostyJ93]

Yeah because all the iphones are totally different in power.

Terrible analogy that screams pure fan boy.

And it will in fact confuse buyers, not hard core gamers that are on forums like these but moms looking to buy kids a new console for Christmas will care about that price.

That's the point. Lockhart for the masses and anaconda for the enthusiasts.

 

[Aceofspades]

That's the point. Lockhart for the masses and anaconda for the enthusiasts.

This method will only work if Anaconda is way stronger than PS5, like for example a 18TF or 20 TF $699 beast. Other than that, people will be getting the more popular PS5 and as the gen progresses Lockhart will become more irrelevant and Sony would be able to lower PS5 price (due to economy of scale) making Lockhart even more useless.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This method will only work if Anaconda is way stronger than PS5, like for example a 18TF or 20 TF $699 beast. Other than that, people will be getting the more popular PS5 and as the gen progresses Lockhart will become more irrelevant and Sony would be able to lower PS5 price (due to economy of scale) making Lockhart even more useless.

I don’t think you are correct.