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[Rightisright]

Theres so much to look forward to for both consoles, there's no need to hang shit on the other.
For Sony fans I have no doubt Cerny and crew will put out a great console and as usual they will have great games.
For MS fans I think MS will make up for the last gen and there is a heap of new first party development houses and I'm really interested to see what they come up with.

 

[DanielsM]

With Gears, Halo and Forza, only?

My point was that Xbox is beyond just G.H.F at this point. Well beyond. This gen will be a huge switch up from what people have grown accustomed to this gen when it comes to Xbox 1st party.

These games will be on other platforms and hardware, and via services... ms dedicated hardware is not that important to them.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Settle down, kids.

Thanks. Good grief that was low effort console war rubbish.

More to add to my ignore list.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Sony isnt an innovative company. They dont push the industry forward. They make banger games but as far as hardware goes, they'll get their ass handed to them in hardware and design (aside from the XOne) by Microsoft. It is what it is in my opinion.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

I can't wait 'til the actual specs are out, there's no significant power advantage for either system, and we can all pick something else to irrationally hate each other over.

 

[Gavon West]

You guys misunderstand me. Im not saying Sony isnt wildly successful. They are. Thats undisputed! Sales over 100 million consoles sold and insanely successful Ip's for a majority of this generation. But they arent innovative in a way that actually pushes the industry forwards in new and creative ways. Ninty came with the Switch. Brilliant device to take gaming on the go and the couch. Microsoft went all in with the Xbox One X and its architecture. No one thought they'd be able to get native 4K games (especially open world) with that console. Suffice to say they did. And they pushed the industry forward with their controller for the disabled gamers -- which is brill!

Sony just doesnt really move in that direction.

 

[Tiamat2san]

I can't wait 'til the actual specs are out, there's no significant power advantage for either system, and we can all pick something else to irrationally hate each other over.

Agreed.
It won’t come soon enough but there will be other debates .
Remember 16/32 debate?
Everything will be analysed and interpreted over and over even when actual face off of released games.
There will biased interpretations on both side.

 

[SoullessApples]

You guys misunderstand me. Im not saying Sony isnt wildly successful. They are. Thats undisputed! Sales over 100 million consoles sold and insanely successful Ip's for a majority of this generation. But they arent innovative in a way that actually pushes the industry forwards in new and creative ways. Ninty came with the Switch. Brilliant device to take gaming on the go and the couch. Microsoft went all in with the Xbox One X and its architecture. No one thought they'd be able to get native 4K games (especially open world) with that console. Suffice to say they did. And they pushed the industry forward with their controller for the disabled gamers -- which is brill!

Sony just doesnt really move in that direction.

How about we just wait for a proper reveal before we make up non sense? I really hope Sony does another $399 type of thing just to shut some of the people spreading these lies up.

 

[ethomaz]

Dup.

 

[ethomaz]

You guys misunderstand me. Im not saying Sony isnt wildly successful. They are. Thats undisputed! Sales over 100 million consoles sold and insanely successful Ip's for a majority of this generation. But they arent innovative in a way that actually pushes the industry forwards in new and creative ways. Ninty came with the Switch. Brilliant device to take gaming on the go and the couch. Microsoft went all in with the Xbox One X and its architecture. No one thought they'd be able to get native 4K games (especially open world) with that console. Suffice to say they did. And they pushed the industry forward with their controller for the disabled gamers -- which is brill!

Sony just doesnt really move in that direction.

What is it innovative in Xbox One X, a device that shows how MS give up on their own architecture creation (XB1) to copy the competition (PS4) architecture?

 

[lefty1117]

I can't wait to play all the multiplats at 12 teraflops

 

[quest]

How about we just wait for a proper reveal before we make up non sense? I really hope Sony does another $399 type of thing just to shut some of the people spreading these lies up.

Phil's already got the greenlight to price match if the specs are basically the same. They said they won't be out done this time price to performance at launch. You don't say that with out backing of the executive team.

 

[thelastword]

I can't wait to play all the multiplats at 12 teraflops

I plan to play at 14.7TF.....

 

[Rightisright]

I plan to play at 14.7TF.....

PC?

 

[thelastword]

PC?

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

Insider right here

 

[Rightisright]

Pro?

 

[Dlacy13g]

I have no clue if these specs are real...but a few things we know from this generation:

• Sony targeted $399 for their launch price.
• Sony had tremendous success with that price because it was not only cheaper than the Xbox One launch $499 w/Kinect included but it was more powerful. Add MS PR difficulty and Sony was setup perfectly to win big.
• Sony had a solid line up of content for the pipeline of the PS4 that helped continue it success vs the further struggles MS 1st party had.
• MS launched Xbox One X at $499 and it saw success against the $449 PS4 Pro.
• MS has invested heavily in 1st party that will start really show its fruit in 2020 and there is Xbox Game Pass.

So.....would I be surprised to see Sony target a spec they could like hit a $399 price point with? Absolutely. Couple that with their 1st party and it pairs perfectly with their playbook from 2013/2014.

And...would I be surprised to see MS target a machine with specs that would push the $499 envelope? Not at all...it lines up with their X1X playbook...beefy premium machine but now with added benefit of an increased and variety of 1st party studios making content and Gamepass.

The funny thing.... I think both could find success with the above should that happen.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

So by your logic, why would the people who made the Xbox One X allow its successor to be less powerful than the competition?

Only because of need. I'm not saying the 12tf beast that is the XSX is shit, all I've ever said is that Sony need the most up-to-date and powerful console to power PSVR.

This isn't a fanboy dick dangle, i'm just saying, i'll be surprised if Sony are the weaker of the two consoles. I can't see it happening

 

[existensmaximum]

This guy ^^ freaks me out. Did you have to use him? Jesus...

Jerry, is that you?

 

[Slings and Arrows]

This...isn't true. Now PS4 was more powerful than XBO across the board, but their other systems? Nowhere near as clear. PS3 had a poorer RAM implementation and weaker GPU than 360 (conversely, PS3 did have the stronger CPU). PS2 had lower resolution, polygon throughput, RAM than Xbox and Gamecube (even Dreamcast in regards resolution and VRAM; Dreamcast supported VGA output and generally had better texturing and mipmapping); conversely, PS2 had the best pixel/particle fillrate of all systems that generation (even ports of games like Zone of the Enders to 360 had the particle effects scaled back on those ports).

PS1 had less RAM than Saturn and N64, lesser hardware for 2D than Saturn, less theoretical polygon throughput than N64 and Saturn and weaker texture stability than N64 and Saturn, but had better 3D GPU than Saturn and better FMV output than Saturn and N64 (due to built-in MPEG decoding hardware and use of CDs as delivery medium, which was something N64 could not leverage).

PS4 is the outlier in terms of Sony's home console systems regards being outright most powerful. They don't have the aversion to power the way Nintendo took post-Gamecube, but they are not as gung-ho on being the most supremely powerful as people seem to think, historically speaking. A balanced hardware approach has usually been their approach, combining with push of some sort of new delivery medium of game software. Basically they carry on Nintendo's older console philosophy in terms of power/price optimization combined with their own focus on new medium delivery mechanisms for each system.

Nice breakdown, thanks.

 

[phil_t98]

end of the day they are all rumours at this point, no idea what people are getting worked up about. can all change last minute

 

[Mista]

If true, this is disappointing. PS4 had a big advantage over Xbox One for it's entire lifetime due to being able to hit true 1080P, where Xbox One games mostly hit 900P. 9.2TF compared to 12F is a huge difference. I hope it is not true.

Until the X joined the scene. Phil’s Xbox division is nothing like Xbox 2013-2014

 

[Rolling_Start]

What is it innovative in Xbox One X, a device that shows how MS give up on their own architecture creation (XB1) to copy the competition (PS4) architecture?

Eh?

X1X has the same architectural foundation as X1, but with various optimisations on both the CPU and GPU ends to make it more efficient. It even includes all the same audio features in the SoC.

As for UMA, that's something that MS beat Sony to by about 12 years, and that all other off the shelf and semi custom AMD SoCs use.

Console warz result in some kinda out-there claims.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You honestly think DF would create this video if they didnt think there was truth behind it? So they're just gonna ruin their reputation for clicks?? You should be considering why they made this video to report on the current data to begin with. They wouldn't touch this if it werent true to some degree.

They have been making videos upon videos on rumors and random data on the Internet (back when they were sure both consoles were 8 TFLOPS and now seem convinced one is for sure 12 TFLOPS and the other one massively underpowered). Why would they ruin their reputation by commenting on more unverified leaks?

They get traffic by speculating / analysing the rumors that are out there and making hypothesis in what they means. You are filling in the blanks with additional rumor verification and using this video by them as evidence because... reasons?! Does it fit what you would like to see?

Leadbetter has a pattern in his articles and many have noticed it in the past too: when he has to report good news on the PS side (yup, PS4 was cheaper than Xbox One, considerably faster and easier to develop for... and many games showed a resolution difference) there are whitewashing, minimisation of differences, throwaway sentences about where your friends play and which controller you like or if resolution difference really matter anymore.

Fast forward to when Xbox One X is out and suddenly resolution differences and some tweaked IQ settings going in its favour and we are talking about it as a monster and “the best way to play”. No more comments about your friends playing somewhere else or you liking another controller better (yeah, how could your friends be on the console that sold more than 2x it’s nearest competitor? Oh yeah, not likely right ).

Guess who gave a megaphone to the “one console has real HW RT while the other one has a software solution” baseless speculation (ridiculous that Cerny has to clarify that twice) and guess which console was which? Guess who always calls XSX a monster in the video we are discussing?

You sound desperate and in denial.

Still not sure sure why you are white knighting Leadbetter’s article and attacking me, but you do you.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Whi h is why I believe the PS5 is more powerful leaks coming from ppl in the industry like Matt, Reiner, etc

Matt is a cock

 

[XcloudTimdog]

Matt is a cock

What restaurant

 

[hollowcupra]

I don't understand why people are panicking. Historically SONY never had the most powerful console.

PS1 vs Saturn and N64 (both though where bitches to code)
PS2 vs Dreamcast (we can argue it was less powerful), Xbox and Gamecube
PS3 was a pain in the ass
PS4 was a last minute upgrade and PS4 Pro was less powerful.

What matters is the software. Even if the end up the way it seems the power upgrade is more than enough and it leaves enough headroom for sony to make a mid gen upgrade ala PRO.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't understand why people are panicking. Historically SONY never had the most powerful console.

PS1 vs Saturn and N64 (both though where bitches to code)
PS2 vs Dreamcast (we can argue it was less powerful), Xbox and Gamecube
PS3 was a pain in the ass
PS4 was a last minute upgrade and PS4 Pro was less powerful. With more balanced consoles or if they have a small edge under at least some specific circumstances they are bound to get some of the fans they may have lost back.

What matters is the software. Even if the end up the way it seems the power upgrade is more than enough and it leaves enough headroom for sony to make a mid gen upgrade ala PRO.

Not that I disagree with the overall point I think, but PS2 was more powerful than DC, PS1 was more powerful than Saturn, only the 8 GB of RAM was “late” upgrade (not sure how when that upgrade occurred means anything though) not the compute power difference.

IMHO, Sony worries about pushing a large enough performance difference and features set upgrade to make each generation stand out from the previous one. MS, from the OG Xbox marketing, was the one basing its message to consumers as “There is no power greater than X” hence why it made them react so strongly when they lost that advantage as it threatened their core fan base.

 

[BLAUcopter]

Ahhhhhh, the sweet smell of a new generation looms in the distance. Begun, the new console war has.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Eh?

X1X has the same architectural foundation as X1, but with various optimisations on both the CPU and GPU ends to make it more efficient. It even includes all the same audio features in the SoC.

As for UMA, that's something that MS beat Sony to by about 12 years, and that all other off the shelf and semi custom AMD SoCs use.

Console warz result in some kinda out-there claims.

N64 beat them on a single memory pool/UMA and they arrived at the same time as PS4 on the shared address space for CPU and GPU in a console. Xbox One X does sound a lot more similar to PS4 in architecture than it does to Xbox One (mainly for the switch to a single GDDR5 high bandwidth pool instead of a split setup with slow external RAM and much much faster and smaller ESRAM pool. That was like THE major difference between Xbox One and PS4 beside number of CU’s anyways.

 

[Armorian]

Not that I disagree with the overall point I think, but PS2 was more powerful than DC, PS1 was more powerful than Saturn, only the 8 GB of RAM was “late” upgrade (not sure how when that upgrade occurred means anything though) not the compute power difference.

IMHO, Sony worries about pushing a large enough performance difference and features set upgrade to make each generation stand out from the previous one. MS, from the OG Xbox marketing, was the one basing its message to consumers as “There is no power greater than X” hence why it made them react so strongly when they lost that advantage as it threatened their core fan base.

PS2 was obviously better than DC. PS4 level of power was very moderate at the times (mid range GPU with low rate CPU), MS just wanted 8GB of RAM in console, they didn't expect higher capacity GDDR5 modules to be available so they had to put SRAM in the system and that fucked up die size so bad that GPU had to be much weaker than what was in PS4.

 

[leo-j]

Of the four competing rounds of consoles MS and Sony have released, Sony have had the weaker platform (by varying degrees) three times.

There are many reasons for this, and it's no guarantee of what will come in the future. But MS have typically produced highly performant consoles and it's only fair to recognise that.

I'm personally not expecting a big difference in power between PS5 or Anaconda one way or the other.

It is pretty obvious how and why Xbox was higher spec those gens

ps2 launch 1999(Japan)
Xbox launch 2001
Also ps3 overall was a higher spec machine than the Xbox 360, nothing on 360 was on KZ2/UNCH2 level visually.
Ps4 was higher spec and cheaper because it did not launch w the Kinect which was an attempt at keeping casuals on Xbox.

OT:

this entire thread of arguments is based on DF saying to take their comparison w A grain of salt.

no way in hell will Sony launch side by side a 3rd weaker than Microsoft.

 

[ZywyPL]

So, someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but GAF's logic indicate that Horizon:ZD, GoW, Spider-Man, DS, the upcoming TLoU2 and GoT are all worthless garbage because Pro has only 4TF as oppose to X 6TF, right? In the same way, any PC gamer below 2080Ti should sell his crappy PC? That's the childish narrative I get here...

There's also an option that the lower-spec XB will have 8.xTF GPU vs PS5 9.x GPU, which would go in line with all the rumors of 10% power difference, PS5 being more powerful, and 12 vs 14 GCN-equivalent TFlops. While the new X would be late to the party with indeed 12TF, as MS had to figure out how to handle the thermals (tower design), and why just recently they started to send out its devkits and even Spencer put his hands on it literally a month ago.

Out of curiosity...why is there zero thought given that SONY might come out with 2 skus? Have they explicitly said they wont?

there is no indication. neither the rumours nor supposed leaks point to that. meanwhile, even Microsoft's naming scheme points heavily to a multi SKU approach.

Sony could do that aswell, but my guess is they are going for a mid gen refresh again.

Sony officials already stated long time ago and multiple times they believe in a single powerful system. They also already indicated there will be a mid-gen refresh model somewhere in the future.

 

[leo-j]

Likely true.

Similar to how Switch has been outselling PS4 lately.

Google Search

So, someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but GAF's logic indicate that Horizon:ZD, GoW, Spider-Man, DS, the upcoming TLoU2 and GoT are all worthless garbage because Pro has only 4TF as oppose to X 6TF, right? In the same way, any PC gamer below 2080Ti should sell his crappy PC? That's the childish narrative I get here...

There's also an option that the lower-spec XB will have 8.xTF GPU vs PS5 9.x GPU, which would go in line with all the rumors of 10% power difference, PS5 being more powerful, and 12 vs 14 GCN-equivalent TFlops. While the new X would be late to the party with indeed 12TF, as MS had to figure out how to handle the thermals (tower design), and why just recently they started to send out its devkits and even Spencer put his hands on it literally a month ago.




Sony officials already stated long time ago and multiple times they believe in a single powerful system. They also already indicated there will be a mid-gen refresh model somewhere in the future.

First, switch and ps4 shipment and actual SALES FIGURES RELEASED BY BOTH COMPANIES have shown sales kneck to kneck. Europe has really tilted it ps’s way. But you can def argue with the ps4 exceeding 100 M sales have waned and switch sales are still strong.

Also, it’s a lot of Microsoft people mixed with hardcore Xbox fans posting. They did it during the psp launch. It has always been about games tho, that’s why ps3 did so well last gen in the end. And why it continued with ps4.

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS2 was obviously better than DC. PS4 level of power was very moderate at the times (mid range GPU with low rate CPU), MS just wanted 8GB of RAM in console, they didn't expect higher capacity GDDR5 modules to be available so they had to put SRAM in the system and that fucked up die size so bad that GPU had to be much weaker than what was in PS4.

I know, but it does not change the final result and the jump in performance from Xbox 360 and PS3 which is what Sony was optimising for.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It is pretty obvious how and why Xbox was higher spec those gens

ps2 launch 1999(Japan)
Xbox launch 2001
Also ps3 overall was a higher spec machine than the Xbox 360, nothing on 360 was on KZ2/UNCH2 level visually.
Ps4 was higher spec and cheaper because it did not launch w the Kinect which was an attempt at keeping casuals on Xbox.

OT:

this entire thread of arguments is based on DF saying to take their comparison w A grain of salt.

no way in hell will Sony launch side by side a 3rd weaker than Microsoft.

1.5 years in those days was an enormous amount of time tech wise, but also MS overspent on the OG Xbox to make a big entrance that they loved to be able to cut the generation short and move to Xbox 360, OG Xbox was crazy expensive to manufacture for the retail price it had.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Not a fucking chance. If this ^^ is Xbox fans, its because we aint trying to hear that bullshit. Sony couldnt make a 14TF console if their company mantra depended on it.

 

[SleepDoctor]

This shit just won't rest huh. We're still almost a whole fucking year away and people are still panicking over rumors.

Iirc Mark Cerny had said himself that 8tf is enough for 4k/60fps. So if that's true, whether its 9, 12, or 14 tf, its still going to be fine.

I didn't realize we had so many "professionals" or psychics here who already know everything.

 

[dDoc]

Maybe I’m just a Blind Sony Fanboy but it’s really hard for me to believe the PS5 is gonna be 3TF/16 CU weaker than the Series X.

What if the rumoured 9TF machine is Lockhart?

 

[GymWolf]

It's funny, because we've had previous leaks:

13TF - https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-13tf-gpu/

14TF - https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/1167540/PS5-specs-PlayStation-5-specs-leak-Xbox-One-X

And this:



And ironically Eurogamer also previously published this article with the possibility of the PS5 being up to 14.7TF -

In Theory: is PS5 powered by an AMD Gonzalo processor?

The first reveal - of sorts - for PlayStation 5 has been and gone, with Sony confirming specs including an octo-core Ze…

www.eurogamer.net

There's also an interesting tidbit within that article (also written by Richard) :



Well... So much for that then.

What's changed since? And why such a sudden and drastic change in tone compared to the previous article?

Maybe because 12tf for a 500-600 dollars machine at loss with microsoft infinite money is far less absurd than fucking 14+teraflop on a 400-500 machine from sony...

They are both pretty absurd tbh, a 12tf gpu is 700 dollars without the ssd, the cpu, the ram, the cooling system etc.
I don't know how much lower is the price when you buy 5 milions stock of gpu but it's still an absurd idea until we know the official specs from M or sony.

 

[Captain Hero]

DF made a video and analysed next gen console on a RUMOUR!

Well .. good job

2020 will tell us the true specs so just stop this

Spoiler: Hmm

nonsense

 

[SleepDoctor]

Maybe because 12tf for a 500-600 dollars machine at loss with microsoft infinite money is far less absurd than fucking 14+teraflop on a 400-500 machine from sony...

They are both pretty absurd tbh, a 12tf gpu is 700 dollars without the ssd, the cpu, the ram, the cooling system etc.
I don't know how much lower is the price when you buy 5 milions stock of gpu but it's still an absurd idea until we know the official specs from M or sony.

Sony fanboys will go to the leaks from last week cuz it fits their narrative better. Xbox fanboys are going to run with this one cuz it fits their narrative.

The Sony defense force been on active duty since the xsx unveiled, running in every single xbox thread. Then in turn say they're not worried about the xbox. And I have no doubt it'll be the same when we get some Ps5 news.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Maybe because 12tf for a 500-600 dollars machine at loss with microsoft infinite money is far less absurd

That does still assume MS is willing to throw all that war chest resources in the single basket especially as they are spending a lot to make headways as a content provider (Netflix style) and for the moment they are the ones talking about iterative consoles as opposed to large generation jumps only (with the sprinkle of mid generation updates to extend the lifetime of the generation on top).

Rumors are getting crazy for both sides yeah, that I do agree with.

 

[Panajev2001a]

This shit just won't rest huh. We're still almost a whole fucking year away and people are still panicking over rumors.

Iirc Mark Cerny had said himself that 8tf is enough for 4k/60fps. So if that's true, whether its 9, 12, or 14 tf, its still going to be fine.

I didn't realize we had so many "professionals" or psychics here who already know everything.

Cerny said that he though 8 TFLOPS was the bare minimum which is not exactly saying “good enough”. Still, I do expect Anaconda and PS5 to be very close.

 

[GymWolf]

That does still assume MS is willing to throw all that war chest resources in the single basket especially as they are spending a lot to make headways as a content provider (Netflix style) and for the moment they are the ones talking about iterative consoles as opposed to large generation jumps only (with the sprinkle of mid generation updates to extend the lifetime of the generation on top).

Rumors are getting crazy for both sides yeah, that I do agree with.

If the 12tf rumors is true, selling at lost is the only way for M.

No chance in hell of earning money with a 12tf machine at 500 or even 600 dollars i think...

 

[SleepDoctor]

Cerny said that he though 8 TFLOPS was the bare minimum which is not exactly saying “good enough”. Still, I do expect Anaconda and PS5 to be very close.

I don't know what to expect from either tbh. I just know I want a competitive gen. Not another one sided one. Competition brings the best in everything.

For all we know these specs could all be true but not even final or vice versa.

 

[ruvikx]

It's funny, because we've had previous leaks:

13TF - https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-13tf-gpu/

14TF - https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/1167540/PS5-specs-PlayStation-5-specs-leak-Xbox-One-X

And this:



And ironically Eurogamer also previously published this article with the possibility of the PS5 being up to 14.7TF -

In Theory: is PS5 powered by an AMD Gonzalo processor?

The first reveal - of sorts - for PlayStation 5 has been and gone, with Sony confirming specs including an octo-core Ze…

www.eurogamer.net

There's also an interesting tidbit within that article (also written by Richard) :



Well... So much for that then.

What's changed since? And why such a sudden and drastic change in tone compared to the previous article?

What's "changed"? A leak with details which some people don't like, that's all. Personally speaking I don't like Jason Schreier, I don't trust his opinions/statements, I don't even accept terms such as "accessibility" which are complete phony corporate marketing speak for "we need to find a new current-year term to make our product appealing in the press". 30 years ago it was blast processing, now it's "accessibility". When I'm fighting against bad framerates in an underpowered console, I couldn't give a flying f about so-called "accessibility". So the previous leaks were just as dubious in my mind as this latest one, if not more considering the source of that particular kotaku one.

We'll know soon enough in early 2020, but I hope Sony don't go cheap.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If the 12tf rumors is true, selling at lost is the only way for M.

No chance in hell of earning money with a 12tf machine at 500 or even 600 dollars i think...

I think both will sell at a slight loss with Xbox LIVE Gold/PSN+ subscription and a game at launch bringing them in the black or super near to that.

 

[GymWolf]

This shit just won't rest huh. We're still almost a whole fucking year away and people are still panicking over rumors.

Iirc Mark Cerny had said himself that 8tf is enough for 4k/60fps. So if that's true, whether its 9, 12, or 14 tf, its still going to be fine.

I didn't realize we had so many "professionals" or psychics here who already know everything.

8tf being good for 4k60 frame?

Maybe for indie, small games or very narrow, guided games like the first hellblade, or 4k30frames.

I don't really think they are enough for big games or open worlds.

My gpu is far more than 8 tf and it's not even close to 4k60 in every games.
I know console optimization is a real thing, but still...