Support NeoGAF

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe he got it backwards? I think Nintendo never got anything 32bit, they leaved 16bit (SNES) straight to 64bit (N64). And Sega never got anything 64bit, they had Saturn (32bit) and then launched Dreamcast (128bit).

I thought the Virtual Boy was?

 

[marquimvfs]

I thought the Virtual Boy was?

Wasn't Virtual Boy a 64bit system?
Edit: No, it wasn't. It's 32bit. But the point remains, I think Sega don't have any 64bit console.

 

[01011001]

The best thing for MS would be if PS5 would be pretty equal in power as it would make Lockhart a steal, though.

Having PS5 in the middle with both power and pricing would make both Lockhart and XSX harder to sell.

at this point I too just hope this Series S < PS5 < Series X situation to be true simply because it's interesting and we never saw something like that before.
as I said many times I'll get both anyways, so I just hope that the consoles will be interesting and stir up the market a bit, because nothing stops innovation like a stagnating market situation.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wasn't Virtual Boy a 64bit system?
Edit: No, it wasn't. It's 32bit. But the point remains, I think Sega don't have any 64bit console.

Just looked it up in case I misremembered.

Virtual Boy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Forgotten boy was indeed 32-bit. My memory sometimes serves me well (for unimportant things), other times not, lol.

 

[V4skunk]

Even if PS5 is 9.2tf and at 399! It has a lot of bang for the buck.

I don't understand why people are panicking. Historically SONY never had the most powerful console.

PS1 vs Saturn and N64 (both though where bitches to code)
PS2 vs Dreamcast (we can argue it was less powerful), Xbox and Gamecube
PS3 was a pain in the ass
PS4 was a last minute upgrade and PS4 Pro was less powerful.

What matters is the software. Even if the end up the way it seems the power upgrade is more than enough and it leaves enough headroom for sony to make a mid gen upgrade ala PRO.

Yet for half of their time selling consoles they released with the most powerful...
I expect Xbox to be more powrrfu

I think people looking at 4k from a 2017-2019 perspective (& what was required within current machines to reach that benchmark this gen) are making a mistake when they project that thinking onto next gen as well. In a new gen we usually get better textures, more details, better physics, better animation, better lighting & sometimes (at least we should) get better AI as well. That means reaching 4k under that criteria (with the increase in specs required to make the whole shebang work) will be more difficult than in 2019. A bit like the ps4 getting remastered GOW running at 60fps while new GOW could only hit 30 (& struggled to maintain that in larger areas). That's because the game was far more taxing.

That'll be the case with next gen games as well, hence why we need higher specs.

To be honest 1080p hasn't even been maxed out by consoles yet...

 

[DanielsM]

You're still spewing this nonsense? MS Phil just stated local hardware will always be the best way to play games. Phil recently said him and MS CEO Satyia decided to "go all in" on Xbox. As I and Dory have stated,MS is trying to cover all bases in getting people into their ecosystem. Xbox,Windows,Xcloud,gamepass can all coexist. Buying a game once and being able to play it across different devices is consumer friendly and forward thinking. Who doesn't like options.

They care enough to invest billions. If MS "didn't care about hardware, why make the XB1X? Why invest so much to have the most powerful(XSX) and most affordable( XSS) if they thought Xbox is a failure with no future?You're becoming a broken record at this point. The XSX 12tf vs PS5tf really has wrestled your jimmies.

They need to fire you, you're not very good at your job... too obvious.

Yes, and Phil said hardware isn't really that important i.e. "I don’t need to sell any specific version of the console in order for us to reach our business goals "

Xbox boss Phil Spencer on the future of gaming: “The business isn’t how many consoles you sell”

A deeper look at xCloud and Project Scarlett.

www.theverge.com

IF hardware is important to Microsoft, they're just not very good at it. You're not good at your job either, they should get rid of you - your astroturfing skill are horrendous.

Buying a game once and being able to play it across different devices is consumer friendly and forward thinking. Who doesn't like options.

The world loves options that is why sales of Xbox have been steadily going down for nearly a decade, and let's be honest, they were never really good... okayish during the peak of Xbox 360. Options are great, just nobody cares about the Microsoft option.

The console warz are over, although it appears MS is spending even more on astroturfing, didn't really work last time.

 

[Rolling_Start]

N64 beat them on a single memory pool/UMA and they arrived at the same time as PS4 on the shared address space for CPU and GPU in a console. Xbox One X does sound a lot more similar to PS4 in architecture than it does to Xbox One (mainly for the switch to a single GDDR5 high bandwidth pool instead of a split setup with slow external RAM and much much faster and smaller ESRAM pool. That was like THE major difference between Xbox One and PS4 beside number of CU’s anyways.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying MS invented UMA. As well as the N64 and OG Xbox, it's also been used in the Switch, most if not all phone and tablet arrangements, and most Intel SoCs. It's also the basis of everything AMD has done with regards to their APUs. The idea that it's some kind of Sony (or MS) innovation is pretty preposterous.

At an architectural level, Jaguar, GCN and the glue the holds almost everything together will be from AMD. MS specific customisations allowing Kinect, Shape and HDMI input and overlay are all still present in the X1X. The command processors are further evolved beyond those in the X1. It maintains full backwards compatibility with the X1, with tweaks to allow intercepting calls and improving IQ without a performance hit. The CPU customisations were specified by MS, not copied from Sony. All tweaks to the base X1 architecture for X1S come from studying code running on the X1.

None of it comes from copying the PS4. The only similarity is to do with memory arrangement (though MS's solution has three times the channels and lower latency), but there's a reason for that too.

esram wasn't even a possibility for X1X. Apart from 32MB of esram being a pretty crappy solution at 1080p due to the DDR3 bottleneck, you couldn't have used 128MB of it for X1X due to the chip area it would have consumed. There was no way X1X was ever going to be anything other UMA. Just like all AMD's other SoCs and APUs, and like Tegra, and like Snapdragon.

It is pretty obvious how and why Xbox was higher spec those gens

ps2 launch 1999(Japan)

2000 ; ) But yeah, time of introduction was a factor, as was BOM, as was the realm of expertise at that time.

Also ps3 overall was a higher spec machine than the Xbox 360, nothing on 360 was on KZ2/UNCH2 level visually.

Can't agree with this, those games show the talent of the developers but prove nothing wrt to the relative capability of the hardware, beyond perhaps hdd as default for all games being great.

There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of the the 360 outpacing the PS3. No subjectivity needed.

Ps4 was higher spec and cheaper because it did not launch w the Kinect which was an attempt at keeping casuals on Xbox.

MS did want to keep the casuals as you say. But the mistake was even more profound than this! They wanted to expand the pool of casuals they tapped into, and get them all onto subscription services. And disastroulsy they decided to sideline the hardcore at the same time.

MS fucked up big!

no way in hell will Sony launch side by side a 3rd weaker than Microsoft.

I'm not expecting them to either. Then again, I didn't expect MS to botch the X1 like they did. "Reveal tent" back in 2013 was a tragicomedy!

Xbox One X has nothing similar to Xbox One in terms of architecture.

I'm sorry but this is factually completely untrue. It is completely wrong.

 

[01011001]

IF hardware is important to Microsoft, they're just not very good at it. You're not good at your job either, they should get rid of your - your astroturfing skill are horrendous.

except that their surface laptops are very high quality and the Xbox One X is the best build home console ever made, which is not my opinion but that of many tech guys who had a look at it.

people really gotta stop fanboying so hard, makes you look childish... at best

and honestly, everyone who wants the market to improve should root for Microsoft, because without competition many features and services we like and have improved gaming wouldn't exist.

being happy that one company dominates a market is the dumbest shit ever, next level stupid, which is why fanboys come across like little children who defend their favourite toy

 

[Filthy Casual]

Some needs to make a new meme for druggy Chappele:

"Ya'll got anymore of them teraflops?"

 

[chemical boy]

except that their surface laptops are very high quality and the Xbox One X is the best build home console ever made, which is not my opinion but that of many tech guys who had a look at it.

people really gotta stop fanboying so hard, makes you look childish... at best

Going on sale a year later and 100 dollars more expensive than the competition, the terrible thing is that it was not.

 

[DanielsM]

except that their surface laptops are very high quality and the Xbox One X is the best build home console ever made, which is not my opinion but that of many tech guys who had a look at it.

people really gotta stop fanboying so hard, makes you look childish... at best

I've always separated their purely consumer products and dual purpose products like the Surface which is mostly enterprise but can be dual purpose. I have a Surface Pro, its okay, probably not worth the money and I don't like having to starting it up with a hair dryer (not joking) when it gets cold , but its not bad... overpriced but not bad. I don't think there is anything wrong with the X, the world just moved on... as Microsoft has moved on .... I never said it was bad (hardware wise)... they are just bad in the console market as a whole, 5-8 years ago they started moving on i.e. services company.

Not much different than the mobile market, Microsoft lost to Android/iOS.... they eventually slowly moved on.... fanboys really didn't want to hear it and still don't.

Funny you implying I'm a fanboy... but I'm probably the only person on the forum with a Surface Pro, Windows Phone (in the process of moving to Android), 2 Xbox 360s and two original Xboxs still hooked up..... you're confused and it would seem you are the fanboy.

I actually never said or implied what you said I said.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I would laugh my balls off if PS5 turned out to be about 9.2TF, and XSX turned out to be ~2 times 1X, effectively about 9.2TF using RDNA2.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm sorry but this is factually completely untrue. It is completely wrong.

You are wrong again.

Xbox One X is pretty much similar to PS4/PS4 Pro in terms of architecture.

Xbox One is the ugly duck architecture wise.

 

[sendit]

Agreed. Innovation starts by releasing a year later and at higher price point to beat the competition.

Addtionally, when I think of innovation. VR is the furthest thing that comes to mind. What innovation means to me is ensuring we see the highest quality pixels on a screen at all times.

 

[Nikana]

You are wrong again.

Xbox One X is pretty much similar to PS4/PS4 Pro in terms of architecture.

Xbox One is the ugly duck architecture wise.

I don't think you know what architecture is or are confusing it with components.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Well, the xbox has a white light, but the PS4 has different colours, and one of them is yellow... So, ducks are yellow... And that means the PS4 is the lame duck.

There, done.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

PS2 was obviously better than DC. PS4 level of power was very moderate at the times (mid range GPU with low rate CPU), MS just wanted 8GB of RAM in console, they didn't expect higher capacity GDDR5 modules to be available so they had to put SRAM in the system and that fucked up die size so bad that GPU had to be much weaker than what was in PS4.

Not obviously; Dreamcast had better resolution output, anti-aliasing, texture compression and support (it supported VGA resolution; PS2 actually has the poorest resolution output of any of the 6th gen consoles) and better texturing capabilities thanks to more VRAM and a better mipmapping feature. It also featured tiled rendering.

PS2's strengths over DC were mainly a faster CPU, more raw polygon rendering, particle effects (it was better than all other systems that gen in this area, and even successor systems like the 360), physics (due to the stronger CPU) and lighting effects. There's a good enough examples of commercial games on both that show off their hardware's respective strengths to each other, but PS2 software was (obviously) able to reach a point of maturity DC software dev didn't.

MS did mess up going with 8GB of DDR3 2133 though; couldn't they have at least tried DDR3 3000? 96 GB/s bandwidth wouldn't have matched GDDR5's but it would've helped more than what the XBO actually had.

Sony fanboys will go to the leaks from last week cuz it fits their narrative better. Xbox fanboys are going to run with this one cuz it fits their narrative.

The Sony defense force been on active duty since the xsx unveiled, running in every single xbox thread. Then in turn say they're not worried about the xbox. And I have no doubt it'll be the same when we get some Ps5 news.

It's a vicious cycle.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Xbox One X has nothing similar to Xbox One in terms of architecture.
It is basically a PS4/Pro on esteroides.

Similar arch: PS4 -> PS4 Slim -> PS4 Pro -> Xbox One X
Different arch: Xbox One -> Xbox One S

Sony has success with PS4 and MS copied it with Xbox One X giving up what they created on Xbox One.

Don’t all the Xbox ones and PS4s have similar cpus but they are clocked at different speeds?

 

[ethomaz]

I don't think you know what architecture is or are confusing it with components.

APU’s designed architecture.

How do you mistake my comments with components is really telling.

 

[Marlenus]

You are wrong again.

Xbox One X is pretty much similar to PS4/PS4 Pro in terms of architecture.

Xbox One is the ugly duck architecture wise.

Do you mean high level CPU, GPU, ram layout architecture, in which case yes, Xbox one X is basically the same as PS4 and PS4 pro as it has one pool of fast ram.

OTOH at a low level all 4 use GCN based GPUs and jaguar CPU cores so have an identical soc architecture.

Usually architecture in these discussions refers to micro-architecure so the design of the gpu, CPU etc not the overall console layout.

 

[Nikana]

APU’s designed architecture.

How do you mistake my comments with components is really telling.

You just proved my point.

 

[ethomaz]

Don’t all the Xbox ones and PS4s have similar cpus but they are clocked at different speeds?

Xbox One and PS4 APUs are pretty different.
Only the CPU is similar while the PS4 uses a simple architecture design with CPU + GPU + GDDR5 Memory controller... the Xbox One uses a complex architecture design with CPU + GPU + ESRAM + GDDR5 memory constritor + ESRAM memory controller + 5 extra DMAs to try to decrease latency access to memory pools (GDDR5 and ESRAM simultaneously) + 3rd party Audio chip (mostly due Kinect).

They are nothing alike... Xbox One APU sue being that complex in design is both bigger (more expensive) and weaker in GPU raw power to PS4.

Xbox One X’s APU rio off these complexities design decision to follow a similar PS4‘s APU design with CPU + GPU + GDD5 memory controller.

Xbox One X’s APU is basically the same architecture design of PS4 with more GPU units.

 

[ethomaz]

You just proved my point.

Being right again? Because what I describe is called Xbox One Architecture.

 

[ethomaz]

Do you mean high level CPU, GPU, ram layout architecture, in which case yes, Xbox one X is basically the same as PS4 and PS4 pro as it has one pool of fast ram.

OTOH at a low level all 4 use GCN based GPUs and jaguar CPU cores so have an identical soc architecture.

Usually architecture in these discussions refers to micro-architecure so the design of the gpu, CPU etc not the overall console layout.

Everything is part of the architecture... ESRAM, MS custom instructions, DMAs, etc.

Here a simple overview of Xbox One Architecture:

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/fall2016/3-4.pdf

In the other side you will see that the PS4, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X architectures are pretty much the same with minor changes... even X-ray shots are similar (the big difference is the number of GPU units).

 

[Marlenus]

Everything is part of the architecture... ESRAM, MS custom instructions, DMAs, etc.

Here a simple overview of Xbox One Architecture:

http://meseec.ce.rit.edu/551-projects/fall2016/3-4.pdf

In the other side you will see that the PS4, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X architectures are pretty much the same with minor changes... even X-ray shots are similar.

Yea full architecture the Xbox one is an odd one out. Micro architecture wise though all 4 are pretty much the same with small differences here and there.

 

[ethomaz]

From of the DF.

Yeah like I say though it is literally baseless speculation, the 2.0 ghz clock on the apu seems like a bad call for thermals and efficiency and I am just wondering why it is there. Perhaps it is just the aim and not the reality and the retail Chip will be around 1.8 which would be that RDNA sweet Spot for thermals.

Also one Thing to think of regarding RDNA. It also has a sweet Spot for bandwidth and efficiency of that bandwidth for the CUs. Not as bad as with gcn where adding CUs paßt a certain amount basically did nothing for Performance if you were bandwidth limited... But it still has it.
We have yet to do testing on it, but probably could Do it when larger RDNA Chips Come out. Basically see how adding more RDNA CUs scales with a steady bandwidth amount: like gcn there will be a number after which the relative increase in rendering Power for more CUs starts to decrease unless bandwidth is increased in a similar or even greater fashion.

Perhaps 36 CUs on RDNA is actually not just smart for yields, but also smart for the best bang for buck bandwidth efficiency... Of around less than 500 gb/s (sharing with CPU remember) And increasing the core frequency at 36 CUs at that bandwidth gives better saturation than at other CU counts with the same Bandwidth.

PS5 and Xbox Series speculation launch thread |OT9| - For flops sake! OT

Yeah like I say though it is literally baseless speculation, the 2.0 ghz clock on the apu seems like a bad call for thermals and efficiency and I am just wondering why it is there. Perhaps it is just the aim and not the reality and the retail Chip will be around 1.8 which would be that RDNA...

www.resetera.com

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Good, Good.....Let the Bullshit flow through your veins.......

 

[ethomaz]

Good, Good.....Let the Bullshit flow through your veins.......

Like I said these “leaks” are really great to Sony.

 

[phil_t98]

Like I said these “leaks” are really great to Sony.

Why great for Sony?

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Like I said these “leaks” are really great to Sony.

This book will be a #1 Best Seller on GAF come this February 2020:

 

[ethomaz]

Why great for Sony?

Because it make them look bad now that increase the chances to create a surprising good PS5 reveal in February

 

[LostDonkey]

56 cu's vs 36 cu's. Thats only 16 cu's off being double the cu's.

See you?

 

[Gavon West]

And?

I didn't say I saw the specs, I said I saw the dev kits, and then based what I saw to say that believing this specific rumor that the PS5 will have a 2.8TF gap with the Series X is not likely to be true.

No to mention the other user who posted the other "leaks" that are rumors that had higher TF, but oddly this is the thread that has made people go crazy and take seriously for some reason. No information was given, no insider claim. Maybe I could have expanded on the "saw the dev kits" part but I mean it's clearly not the same as "saw the specs" and I gave basically no information in that post so to claim that there is any insider information to verify is bonkers to me.

Hold up, bruh. HOLD. UP!

How you just gonna go from "unofficial insider" to civilian like that tho? Like, you're legit switching the tracks from DF by essentially stating you actually saw dev kits. That's a score or two beyond what DF said themselves.

So which is it?

 

[Nikana]

I missed the banning of Afro...

So I take it he was talking about his butt?

 

[Gavon West]

I'm not moving the goalposts you're playing semantics.

Seeing the dev kits is not "first-hand information" on a thread about specs, seeing the specs would be "first hand information" in a thread about specs.

This is the definition of jumping to conclusions. Seeing something doesn't mean that I know specifics.

Then why did you even say anything to begin with? You're basically saying you know jack shit -- even seeing the dev kits. It wasnt worth posting from the start. Just my opinion. You're casting doubt without any knowledge to back it up,

 

[ruvikx]

Because it make them look bad now that increase the chances to create a surprising good PS5 reveal in February

Nobody beyond the most hardcore gamers eating this stuff (i.e. rumors) for breakfast lunch & dinner care about what the media is currently printing. For "normies", it's about the reveal shows & all the actual facts presented by the company themselves (& ensuing discussion). Sony doesn't need to "surprise" anyone because they're coming from a position of total dominance & strength (the ps4 was widely loved). People will judge the ps5 based off that & their expectations based upon what the competitors are doing, not what is current being printed in the specialized press on December 31st (aka when most "normal people" aren't debating console specs).

 

[Gediminas]

56 cu's vs 36 cu's. Thats only 6 cu's off being double the cu's.

See you?

yeah, see you in math class..

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Then why did you even say anything to begin with? You're basically saying you know jack shit -- even seeing the dev kits. It wasnt worth posting from the start. Just my opinion. You're casting doubt without any knowledge to back it up,

 

[Journey]

Now they are going to the services audience, I have my doubts that is the right track (I doubt anyone really cares) - in the meantime the people that actually invest in hardware are not thrilled by the end game. Which is why Microsoft produces all this hardware but sales are going down - the shift already happen, the missed the boat just like they did in mobile, imo. Microsoft already has the most powerful console, sales went down and at a fairly good rate - the shift already occurred, more powerful hardware in itself really doesn't solve the issue/s, imo.

Its basically what happened in mobile, although they have the ability to sell their office solutions thru Android/iOS.

You just explained how timing is important. At the launch of a new generation is where it's most important to have powerful hardware, they learned that lesson. Phil made it clear that Xbox One X was designed to make it up to its hard-core fans and not necessarily overtake or have an impact on Sony, he actually said that in an interview, and promised not to disappoint its fans with weak hardware ever again, hinting at once again having the power advantage over the competition.

On the services side of things, that is the future whether you like it or not, but MS is not abandoning gamers who want a connected powerful home console, that's what Xbox Series X serves, but at the same time, they're building upon their existing infrastructure to make sure they remain ahead of everyone.

 

[LostDonkey]

yeah, see you in math class..

Typo brah

 

[recursive]

they are the ones that started 1080p vs 800p resolution war this gen, so how are they pro-MS?

Because last gen they started the 720p vs 690p war? It was a big deal then to trash on ps3 for 20 to 30 less Ps.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Because last gen they started the 720p vs 690p war? It was a big deal then to trash on ps3 for 20 to 30 less Ps.

For sure. But also, 360 often had frame rate advantages too, didn't have weird bugs like Bethesda save crashes.

And which side has bragged about having best sales vs. Xbox and Nintendo systems since PS1?

Although that came to a crashing halt when Wii came out, but now it's back as PS4 is back to sales leader.

 

[TeamGhobad]

Because last gen they started the 720p vs 690p war? It was a big deal then to trash on ps3 for 20 to 30 less Ps.

i dont believe DF existed then. back the we were all very illiterate i actually thought all my games were running 1080p because i had a full hd tv lol

 

[Deto]

Until the X joined the scene. Phil’s Xbox division is nothing like Xbox 2013-2014

SonyGAF is in a bit of denial in this thread. DF wouldn't be doing this without some confidence in the leak as they stated at the beginning by independently verifying from more than one source. I personally hope the consoles are closer together than 9 vs 12, but it also seems plainly obvious there will be a price separation as well. I'll be buying both so don't have a dog in this hunt. But it seems pretty legit on its face. DF has a good track record. Dismissing this as click bait feels like console warrior damage control.

8TF xbox SX, 23 de jun. de 2019

 

[VAL0R]

I've always separated their purely consumer products and dual purpose products like the Surface which is mostly enterprise but can be dual purpose. I have a Surface Pro, its okay, probably not worth the money and I don't like having to starting it up with a hair dryer (not joking) when it gets cold , but its not bad... overpriced but not bad. I don't think there is anything wrong with the X, the world just moved on... as Microsoft has moved on .... I never said it was bad (hardware wise)... they are just bad in the console market as a whole, 5-8 years ago they started moving on i.e. services company.

Not much different than the mobile market, Microsoft lost to Android/iOS.... they eventually slowly moved on.... fanboys really didn't want to hear it and still don't.

Funny you implying I'm a fanboy... but I'm probably the only person on the forum with a Surface Pro, Windows Phone (in the process of moving to Android), 2 Xbox 360s and two original Xboxs still hooked up..... you're confused and it would seem you are the fanboy.

I actually never said or implied what you said I said.

D DanielsM , why do you continually insist that MS has "moved on" from consoles? It's silly. Yes they sell services as well. Why can't you comprehend that they can support both without contradiction? It's two branches of the same tree. It's an interconnected Xbox ecosystem marketing strategy. One sector feeds the other.

You sound foolish when they have just shown the console they will ship next year. More than that, it looks like a powerhouse dedicated to hardcore console fans. And to dispel your conspiracy theory about MS abandoning consoles further, it is virtually verified by many sources that MS is planning a second sister console to the Series X, that will be more casual oriented.

Please stop being obtuse.

O and you don't get a "I'm not a Sony fanboy" pass because you have purchased and used Microsoft products over the years. That's nonsense. That's like me pretending that because I bought a Sony Bravia television I am inoculated from ever being an Xbro douche on the internet.

 

[leo-j]

Oh yeah, I'm not saying MS invented UMA. As well as the N64 and OG Xbox, it's also been used in the Switch, most if not all phone and tablet arrangements, and most Intel SoCs. It's also the basis of everything AMD has done with regards to their APUs. The idea that it's some kind of Sony (or MS) innovation is pretty preposterous.

At an architectural level, Jaguar, GCN and the glue the holds almost everything together will be from AMD. MS specific customisations allowing Kinect, Shape and HDMI input and overlay are all still present in the X1X. The command processors are further evolved beyond those in the X1. It maintains full backwards compatibility with the X1, with tweaks to allow intercepting calls and improving IQ without a performance hit. The CPU customisations were specified by MS, not copied from Sony. All tweaks to the base X1 architecture for X1S come from studying code running on the X1.

None of it comes from copying the PS4. The only similarity is to do with memory arrangement (though MS's solution has three times the channels and lower latency), but there's a reason for that too.

esram wasn't even a possibility for X1X. Apart from 32MB of esram being a pretty crappy solution at 1080p due to the DDR3 bottleneck, you couldn't have used 128MB of it for X1X due to the chip area it would have consumed. There was no way X1X was ever going to be anything other UMA. Just like all AMD's other SoCs and APUs, and like Tegra, and like Snapdragon.



2000 ; ) But yeah, time of introduction was a factor, as was BOM, as was the realm of expertise at that time.



Can't agree with this, those games show the talent of the developers but prove nothing wrt to the relative capability of the hardware, beyond perhaps hdd as default for all games being great.

There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of the the 360 outpacing the PS3. No subjectivity needed.



MS did want to keep the casuals as you say. But the mistake was even more profound than this! They wanted to expand the pool of casuals they tapped into, and get them all onto subscription services. And disastroulsy they decided to sideline the hardcore at the same time.

MS fucked up big!



I'm not expecting them to either. Then again, I didn't expect MS to botch the X1 like they did. "Reveal tent" back in 2013 was a tragicomedy!



I'm sorry but this is factually completely untrue. It is completely wrong.

ps2 launched in japan a year earlier than in the US.

also, it’s not really subjective to say on Xbox 360 ever hit what we saw in UNCHARTED 2 or KZ. You can argue the dramatically more powerful CPU was a reason in addition to talent that Sony’s first party was visually a tier above the best on Xbox 360.
.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

Sony isnt giving a tflop count @ Feb reveal if thats actually true, anyone wanna take a bet on that let me know. Why? Because once they do that it opens the door for Xbox to claim power and let the numbers out. It will be a cat and mouse game for a long while, plus both xbox and sony are emphasizing other things this gen. Anyone want bet?

 

[ethomaz]

Sony isnt giving a tflop count @ Feb reveal if thats actually true, anyone wanna take a bet on that let me know. Why? Because once they do that it opens the door for Xbox to claim power and let the numbers out. It will be a cat and mouse game for a long while, plus both xbox and sony are emphasizing other things this gen. Anyone want bet?

They will definitely reveal the full specs at February and like previous gen MS will only have the option to try to upclock their APU.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

They will definitely reveal the full specs at February and like previous gen MS you only have the option to upclock their APU.

Lets make a bet .

 

[ethomaz]

Lets make a bet .

Bet for what? It is useless everybody know there is no way to change an APU for less than 10 months release lol.

If that could be done then MS should have tried with Xbox One but they have to accept the max they could do was to upclock 10%.

After this point no company is afraid to reveal specs anymore.