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[DJ12]

Kamiya is definitely ranting on Gaf over MS stealing a PS5 exclusive.

YakimaG? I wouldn't call a single post ranting on gaf. But I'm guessing you think this is legit then and aren't playing around.

From what you know of Xbox can they push up to the same range in floppage I imagine they have some wiggle room if they are 56 cus and 1.6 1.7 what ever the rumour was pegged at.

I would be amazed if Sony had many more active cus than 56 to be honest so I guess an overclock will see ms in the same ballpark?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Show of hands with likes on this post...

Who thinks this is a bad idea that ALL Series X games MUST comply & have playable framerates on an ancient 1.31TF GPU machine with a mechanical HDD & 1.75 Jaguar CPU with only 8GB of memory?

WTF, Microsoft?

ALL? No. The option is there for those who want to use it, third parties can ignore it completely and release JUST SX/PS5 games. Only MS are mandating that for their first party games. Even then, they don't have to do it, and won't before long.

I understand the concern as it is a bit shit, but lets stick to the facts eh?

 

[Clintizzle]

Did we get anywhere with CBOAT's Edge of tomorrow stuff?

 

[PocoJoe]

Oh come on, you act like devs will have everything figured out right out of the gate. It's never been that way before and it's not going to start now.

Neither Sony , MS or any other studios will be leveraging the full capability of these new consoles with their first offerings. So just stop it.

It will be years before they fully grasp RDNA architecture comprehensively, and how to properly balance RT and other functions. No one is going to be doing balls to the wall anything at launch. Seriously, you can relax.

Cross gen at the beginning of a new generation isn't going to be the epic deal breaker you're making it out to be.

So you dont see any differences between:

Start to dev games for new system with multiple times more of performance in cpu/gpu/ram/mem

Dev games for slow old ass system and "port" that onto new fast system



Of course devs cant get everything out from new consoles in first few years, but adding old system support into the equation will most likely multiply that learing process instead of cutting it half.

And games will be worse than just made for the new system only

 

[CyberPanda]

Kamiya is definitely ranting on Gaf over MS stealing a PS5 exclusive.

Lol

 

[JAMMA]

SonyGAF

 

[Denis Colovic]

It means for 2 years you will have nextgen games limited by the hairdryer CPU of the base X1, that isn't exactly positive.

Three words: Third Party Titles. I heard they still exist.

 

[webber]

This Sony's low-key way to go about PS5 is going to melt this forum.
Just wait for February, people. Not much to go now.
This excessive leaks masturbation and console wars gonna get you all sterile, sick and crazy.
Edit: Soony®.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Three words: Third Party Titles. I head they still exist.

The discussion is obviously about 1st party titles, the ones that showcase the hardware potential. 3rd parties usually do "just enough to get by".

 

[Gavin Stevens]

So will the Series X games have different retail packaging and the FC/BC games will use the old styleXbox One clamshell? I’m trying to figure out how this would all play out. We already know that the flagship Halo Infinite will work on the 1.31TF Kinect disaster and I’m just not grasping how all this can be marketed towards casual consumers unless there is a clear packaging difference from Series X games and Xbox One games. I have my doubts that this will be a first-party issue instead of an all-party requirement.

I was thinking about that earlier. They will likely rebrand the cases at the top with the same sort of thing they did for the cross gen 360/xbox games. Sadly, I think the game boxes will look a bit shit, and again, Sony will take the lead here. All speculation. I mean, the black cases I've seen are just SEX, but MS have sort of cornered themselves in this regard. Shitty.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

The discussion is obviously about 1st party titles, the ones that showcase the hardware potential. 3rd parties usually do "just enough to get by".

The Witcher, CyberPunk, Red Dead 2 and Metro Exodus would like a word...

 

[Ar¢tos]

The Witcher, CyberPunk, Red Dead 2 and Metro Exodus would like a word...

I did use the word USUALLY.
Do I need to post the definition of it?

 

[Reindeer]

Time will show all.

Time has already shown us time and time again in the past.

 

[Rightisright]

So this is why you cant put much faith in so-called insiders.
People here were saying how Matt on Ree said the PS5 was slightly more powerful than the Xbox. Well his latest comments are now this.

"OK, just to clear this up: I did not mean to be enigmatic (in this case at least), I thought my intention was clear. If I was forced to make an educated guess on the question of the relative strength of the PS5 and NextBox, I would have to give the nod to Microsoft. And now, I’m out."

Does this sound like someone who had the spec sheets? Seriously?

 

[JAMMA]

SonyGAF

 

[Denis Colovic]

Why would they be limited? Are PC games limited because they also have to do console games? No.
Microsoft is just supporting their older console buyers. Dont forget that these MS games will also be coded for high end Pcs as well, which will again mean that the XSX versions wont be gimped in any way.

This is really true. We had games like Witcher 3 running also on xbox one and PS4. We also had games like Horizon zero dawn doing real time foilage placement on the GPU side as the player is traversing the game world. Microsoft will not be limited in what they can do for the Series X simply because current scopes and scale of games are already crazy.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I did use the word USUALLY.
Do I need to post the definition of it?

Well, I USUALLY read the full post, so...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are PC games limited because they also have to do console games?

Yes, because the console versions are the base that must work and the PC is the version where you let the engine have a fuller breath and turn up frame rate and resolution and size of textures/effects quality.

As much as the project is not exactly my dearest one ever, Star Citizen’s performance on current console level class HW shows what happens when you start aiming higher a bit. Technologically (scale and scope of things) it is an impressive title.

 

[JAMMA]

SonyGAF

 

[Reindeer]

Why would they be limited? Are PC games limited because they also have to do console games? No.
Microsoft is just supporting their older console buyers. Dont forget that these MS games will also be coded for high end Pcs as well, which will again mean that the XSX versions wont be gimped in any way.

So you are telling me games that were designed to also run on PS2 were not held back and were of the same level as Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, 3 and other PS3 exclusives? Smh.

 

[Denis Colovic]

Tell me what games on the horizon in the next 18 months are going to need all this massive increase that wont be able to be gimped down for lower hardware?

Only thing that comes to my mind is Star Citizen.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Only thing that comes to my mind is Star Citizen.

... because AAA PC gaming is still mostly tied to the console generation performance leaps.

 

[Denis Colovic]

I don't know? I just want the best possible version of next gen games that utilize the hardware to the fullest. Designing your game around the restrictions of the jaguar CPUs and no SSD, is not going to help with that.

You will always end up designing games with restrictions whether its by dsign or hardware. Restriction cap is like right on your 4head if you make games, its there all the time trust me. Its not about those restrictions but how to still make things work even with them around,

 

[Reindeer]

You will always end up designing games with restrictions whether its by dsign or hardware. Restriction cap is like right on your 4head if you make games, its there all the time trust me. Its not about those restrictions but how to still make things work even with them around,

Of course, let me run that Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, Last of Us 2 and RDR2 on PS3. Do you guys even hear yourselves?

 

[CuriousToe]

You will always end up designing games with restrictions whether its by dsign or hardware. Restriction cap is like right on your 4head if you make games, its there all the time trust me. Its not about those restrictions but how to still make things work even with them around,

Of course. But not having to develop for something as weak as OG XB1 would be one less restriction to worry about. I want to see what developers are going to be able to do with the combined CPU, RAM, GPU and SSD leaps. And it sounds like MS are going to make people wait. Not a bad business decision, but not what I want to see as a consumer.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Denis Colovic]

Of course, let me run that Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, Last of US 2 and RDR2 on PS3. Do you guys even hear yourselves?

There was 3 uncharted games on ps3. There was plenty of large scale open world games on the ps3. There was a last of us on the ps3. We could also just say the Switch keeps all ambitions of games small. But who does that? Its wrong.

 

[sonomamashine]

Yeah but he said someone sent him specs I'm asking him if these are the specs he was sent

He's a fraud/troll, what's the point of claiming to be a insider without revealing anything.

 

[Denis Colovic]

Yes, but that’s exactly NOT what devs or gamers want to hear about this new gen concerning Series X. You literally just confirmed everyone’s fears.
People excited to preorder this new hardware don’t want a restriction cap by-design.

"Restrictions" are always there no matter what hardware you have. Even if its 50 TF. So you guys wanna live in a dream and not hear how the real world is functioning? Im confused.

 

[Tulipanzo]

The thing with next-gen exclusives is not that they are radically better than cross-gen titles.
However:
1) They show confidence in your new hw and what can be achieved on it
2) Help your team get to grips with the new features
3) Influence marketing. MORE POWER means nothing without games


The result will be two years of X1 games with more bushes and higher fps, after which your team STILL has to get to grips with the new tech.


Furthermore, it's nonsensical to claim this is better support for X1.
Look at 2020 PS4 titles: the "abandoned console" is getting more quality titles than you AND can support next-gen exclusives.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Rightisright]

So you are telling me games that were designed to also run on PS2 were not held back and were of the same level as Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, 3 and other PS3 exclusives? Smh.

Was Metro held back on PC because of rhe Xbox One S version? No

 

[Self High Five]

"Restrictions" are always there no matter what hardware you have. Even if its 50 TF. So you guys wanna live in a dream and not hear how the real worlds is functioning? Im confused.

You can't come keep up with the debate so you resort to vague strawman "restrictions" generalities to save face.

Sorry, this is about exclusive Xbox Series games being anchored by a laptop mid ranged CPU from 2013 & an HDD for the first two years of its lifespan. If you don't care that's one thing, but throwing out strawman agruments out there is stupid.

"Hey, there will always be 'restrictions' since developers don't have a billion dollar budget and infinite time to develop, so who cares if they have to accommodate the PS2. There is a 130 million of them out there!"

 

[Self_Destructive]

How much of a difference are people expecting between a game developed specifically for PS5.. vs a game released to take advantage of Series X, but also on Xbox One systems?

This isn't going to be like a PS4>PRO or XO>X1X type situation where the developers are only focused on resolution and framerate improvements. It's not like they couldn't visually create a very different looking version of "the same game"

Back in the day, some versions of console games looked vastly different or were different altogether from other platforms, and redesigned in a way to take advantage of the different platforms. That could be the case here as well.

So... within the first 2 years... how many games do you expect to truly be pushing the system? If Series X versions of games release and they look a whole lot better than Xbox One versions, and look nearly the same level as PS5 games... who cares?

 

[Reindeer]

Was Metro held back on PC because of rhe Xbox One S version? No

Yes, because it still looks like a game from the same generation. Metro was targeted for PS4 as Xbox One as its base level and it clearly shows. Now ask yourself if a game like Star Citizen would suffer if it targeted this gen's base consoles. I think we all know an answer to that.

 

[SportsFan581]

If you think cross gen games are not held back by old hardware then I don't know what to say. You say games had to go in development years ago, but do you think Microsoft didn't know they were planning to release new consoles in 2020? I get you are an Xbox fan, but at times you sound like a PR machine for Microsoft. Now I'm not saying one should automatically hate this type of strategy and I know some folks are ok with it, but let's not pretend it's anything more than a Microsoft's vision that's been at play for a while.

It's important to note that MS is only talking about their first party. They control these studios, if they want to do two builds or anything they need to do to hit targets, they can do that (doesn't matter how many dartboards the devs put up featuring the faces of MS brass). I'm sure they'll have some games at launch that can put the new hardware to good use. They are pushing GamePass as their primary path forward, is it a surprise that they don't want to completely start over on the userbase front?

 

[sonomamashine]

Was Metro held back on PC because of rhe Xbox One S version? No

It does actually, low specs machines always hold Devs, if a GTX 1080 was more mainstream/more spread then you would have seen some amazing games already, it depends of $$ and since most people have a 2Gb/4Gb GPU...

 

[Reindeer]

There was 3 uncharted games on ps3. There was plenty of large scale open world games on the ps3. There was a last of us on the ps3. We could also just say the Switch keeps all ambitions of games small. But who does that? Its wrong.

You're missing the point. A game like Uncharted 4 could never be as visually stunning and vast if it targeted PS3 as well. I seriously feel like I'm talking to a wall here. There are things that would have to be cut out because PS3 could never do them.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[JLMC469]

You're missing the point. A game like Uncharted 4 could never be as visually stunning and vast if it targeted PS3 as well. I seriously feel like I'm talking to a wall here.

To be fair, UC4 gameplay and mechanics were stuck in last gen.

Talk about devs prioritizing looks over gameplay.

 

[Denis Colovic]

There’s lots of problems in the “real world” without imposing new ones. What’s your point?

My point is that if you play a game then your are playing a game. You can have all horesepower you want, you can have photoreal graphics its still a game. Saying that old hardware is a barrier for innovation and progress is just wrong.

Also: I read on a previous page that "better" AI will only be possible with stronger hardware. Well yes but how realistic can AI become without deep learning or reinforcement learning. Pushing how much AI is seen on the screen or how "photoreal" a game is looking will not make it a better or more imersive expierence if the game is just badly designed.

 

[Reindeer]

To be fair, UC4 gameplay and mechanics were stuck in last gen.

Talk about devs prioritizing looks over gameplay.

I'm talking about technological side if things, not gameplay necessarily. Technologically Uncharted 4 would have to be a different game if it targeted PS3 as base console.

 

[hubertuss03]

Tell me what games on the horizon in the next 18 months are going to need all this massive increase that wont be able to be gimped down for lower hardware?

Wait for

Playground Games, Turn 10, 343 Ind are as good as some of the Sony studios. Who knows what level the other studios will rise to. The Inititive will show their new game soon. Ninja Theory has shown their game already. One thing you underestimate is that MS has all the money and resources to build those studios up. They could also turn around and buy out another couple of studios like Remedy or Sega. They have the cash to do it.
As far as the gap between Sony and MS studios goes, ND puts out the Last Of Us and Uncharted that currently MS doesnt have an answer to, but Turn 10 is as good as Poly as a car racing studio, and is actually more productive than Poly is. Playground Games with Forza Horizons make the best open world car racing game around. Halo is better than Killzone, and Gears is a AAA franchise. Now I'm not saying MS is just gonna catch right up, because it wont be easy, but it's gonna be fascinating to see what MS studios put out, and what other studios they buy.
This next gen is exciting for Xbox owners.

Yes, they are as goog as some Sony studios but not as good as Sony best studios like ND, SM, Poly Insomniac or Guerillas.

Lol. Sony also have money and resources to build up their studios. And they do this.
Microsoft didnt deliver GOTY contender in this gen so where is this money and resources?

Remedy and Sega you say? Remedy work with MS and work is done. They probably work with Sony.
Sega? Its big company and also Publisher. Not Real imo. You aim too high. Look at previous acquisitions. They dont look at big studios.

Gap between Sony studios and MS studios is big and you dont change it. Maybe something change in future but i dont think so.

 

[sonomamashine]

So... within the first 2 years... how many games do you expect to truly be pushing the system?

None, except some minor details.

 

[Reindeer]

Imagine thinking that Crysis would not have suffered if it had to run on PS2, that's basically where we are at here.

 

[sonomamashine]

My point is that if you play a game then your are playing a game. You can have all horesepower you want, you can have photoreal graphics its still a game. Saying that old hardware is a barrier for innovation and progress is just wrong.

Bruuuuuuuuuuuuu

Also: I read on a previous page that "better" AI will only be possible with stronger hardware. Well yes but how realistic can AI become without deep learning or reinforcement learning. Pushing how much AI is seen on the screen or how "photoreal" a game is looking will not make it a better or more imersive expierence if the game is just badly designed.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

 

[martino]

The actual most powerful GPU (and who expect more powerful from next gen) don't need a SSD to struggle to display everything on screen.
Console optimizations, 30fps , cb rendering and new way to do things will help, but to what extend ?
This gen, I suspect we will hit limitation on what the gpu can display before reaching ssd data streaming limits.

I advise everybody to not put too much expectations surrounding theses new features....
There are no revolutionary silver bullet (but yes things will change at a slower pace with r&d and experimentation)

Imo industry will held back game designs more than any tech specs.

Also scalabilty and diminishing returns grow each generations.

 

[Denis Colovic]

You're missing the point. A game like Uncharted 4 could never be as visually stunning and vast if it targeted PS3 as well. I seriously feel like I'm talking to a wall here. There are things that would have to be cut out because PS3 could never do them.

You feel like you are talking to a wall and I feel like people put walls in front of my face to silence down my thoughts. We should all just try to take out heat where thre is no need for it. If I state something no one needs to take over my standpoint or opinion. All I wanted is a healthy discussion and the outlook to different thoughts and opinions.

Edit: Old hardware is not holding anyone back to create bigger or more technically demanding games.

 

[sonomamashine]

You feel like you are talking to a wall and I feel like people put walls in front of my face to silence down my thoughts.