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[Reindeer]

You feel like you are talking to a wall and I feel like people put walls in front of my face to silence down my thoughts. We should all just try to take out heat where thre is no need for it. If I state something no one needs to take over my standpoint or opinion. All I wanted is a healthy discussion and the outlook to different thoughts and opinions.

We can't argue something that's impossible and inaccurate and just then dress it up as opinion. All we have to do is look at cross gen games from previous gens and it becomes obvious that they are not on the same standard technologically as the games that are not cross gen. Anyone who says otherwise is arguing against facts.

 

[Sethbacca]

Edit: Old hardware is not holding anyone back to create bigger or more technically demanding games.

why even bother with new hardware. This is the worst hot take in existence.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[sonomamashine]

why even bother with new hardware. This is the worst hot take in existence.

You don't understand.

We should all just try to take out heat where thre is no need for it. If I state something no one needs to take over my standpoint or opinion. All I wanted is a healthy discussion and the outlook to different thoughts and opinions.

 

[Denis Colovic]

We can't argue something that's impossible and inaccurate and just then dress it up as opinion. All we have to do is look at cross gen games from previous gens and it becomes obvious that they are not on the same standard technologically as the games that are not cross gen. Anyone who says otherwise is arguing against facts.

My original post wasnt based on cross gen titles nor did I explicitly state I meant exclussives. I meant games in general and added some examples in another post.

 

[Reindeer]

I seriously have no idea why you’re posting in a gaming enthusiast new hardware speculation thread. Seriously, no idea.

Just when Denis thought I was being harsh lol.

 

[Sethbacca]

You don't understand.

I understand that having 3-4 times more cpu power allows for better AI, game logic, more expansive worlds. Acting like it doesn’t is just nonsense. Let me know when you can play Star Citizen on your old Pentium machine.

 

[sonomamashine]

Just wanna remind people that any leak regarding Sony keynote in february that doesn't have Dreams (Media Molecule game) on it is fake.

 

[SportsFan581]

Of course, let me run that Uncharted 4, Horizon Zero Dawn, Last of Us 2 and RDR2 on PS3. Do you guys even hear yourselves?

Just how sure are you that those games couldn't be back ported? LOL

Basically anything on the Switch and TR on 360 say hi.

 

[sonomamashine]

I understand that having 3-4 times more cpu power allows for better AI, game logic, more expansive worlds. Acting like it doesn’t is just nonsense. Let me know when you can play Star Citizen on your old Pentium machine.

Lol i re-edited my post, something went wrong (misplacement), yes i do agree with your logic.

 

[Reindeer]

Just how sure are you that those games couldn't be back ported? LOL

Basically anything on the Switch and TR on 360 say hi.

You mean Switch ports that run at 360/540p at 24fps? Also, there are games that just wouldn't work on Switch or would have to have content cut out.

 

[Denis Colovic]

I seriously have no idea why you’re posting in a gaming enthusiast new hardware speculation thread. Seriously, no idea.

Because I like to talk about games? If this thread would only be about hardware then no one would talk about games. But people do it so I assume its part of the overall discussion. If not please prove me wrong.

 

[Sethbacca]

Lol i re-edited my post, something went wrong (misplacement), yes i do agree with your logic.

ahh my bad then. I usually just lurk but this take was so bad I was having an aneurysm trying to figure out the logic behind it.

 

[Denis Colovic]

You mean Switch ports that run at 360/540p at 24fps? Also, there are games that just wouldn't work on Switch or would have to have content cut out.

After seing witcher 3 being playble on the switch I believe in inteligent life outside of our solar system.

 

[SportsFan581]

You mean Switch ports that run at 360/540p at 24fps? Also, there are games that just wouldn't work on Switch or would have to have content cut out.

Didn't say they ran full speed. You just badly underestimate what a good developer can do on a backport. Rise of the Tomb Raider was certainly a nice looking game that made ample use of high-end graphics cards and the PS4/Xbone hardware, yet there it is on the 360. Were some alterations required here and there, sure.

This is all much ado about nothing. Third-party always does cross-gen, and always will for the first year or two. Given their previous release history, and the fact that most of their studios are new acquisitions, how much software do you think they have for year one?

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Sethbacca]

Didn't say they ran full speed. You just badly underestimate what a good developer can do on a backport. Rise of the Tomb Raider was certainly a nice looking game that made ample use of high-end graphics cards and the PS4/Xbone hardware, yet there it is on the 360. Were some alterations required here and there, sure.

This is all much ado about nothing. Third-party always does cross-gen, and always will for the first year or two. Given their previous release history, and the fact that most of their studios are new acquisitions, how much software do you think they have for year one?

You’re talking about two distinct pieces of software for two different systems. Forward compatible software will be a single piece of software coded to the lowest common denominator cpu. You’re literally making an argument as to why you’re wrong here.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Because I like to talk about games? If this thread would only be about hardware then no one would talk about games. But people do it so I assume its part of the overall discussion. If not please prove me wrong.

If a game wants to stream data at 3gb/s for the open world to give u amazing sense of speed as an ability , how can that be done on ps4 or x1 with 100 mb/s speed ? It simply can’t and that game design needs to be changed/removed

with this mentality, rdr2 could have run on ps1

 

[Reindeer]

Didn't say they ran full speed. You just badly underestimate what a good developer can do on a backport. Rise of the Tomb Raider was certainly a nice looking game that made ample use of high-end graphics cards and the PS4/Xbone hardware, yet there it is on the 360. Were some alterations required here and there, sure.

This is all much ado about nothing. Third-party always does cross-gen, and always will for the first year or two. Given their previous release history, and the fact that most of their studios are new acquisitions, how much software do you think they have for year one?

You forgetting that games that will be development exclusively for next gen will be different in the way they're designed, just look how Star Citizen performs on SSD vs HDD. We are also going to get massive jump in CPU that we haven't seen before, as well as SSD being used bad virtual ram. Not taking full advantage of these things will only hold games back.

 

[Denis Colovic]

Too m

If a game wants to stream data at 3gb/s for the open world to give u amazing sense of speed as an ability , how can that be done on ps4 or x1 with 100 mb/s speed ? It simply can’t and that game design needs to be changed/removed

with this mentality, rdr2 could have run on ps1

Im not going to put more fuel in to the fire as I already stated what I felt was needed.

 

[sonomamashine]

Denis Colovic we all agree that the better the specs = bigger possibility's = Devs imaginations come to life = better games.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Curious how they market it.

"With the amazing power of the XboX Series X (actual name) we're going to achieve nothing new and reach the exact same heights as before"

 

[SportsFan581]

You’re talking about two distinct pieces of software for two different systems. Forward compatible software will be a single piece of software coded to the lowest common denominator cpu. You’re literally making an argument as to why you’re wrong here.

You do realize that MS has done the same thing with cross-gen first party (they hired a secondary dev to backport FH). So, unless you're in their meeting rooms, you don't know what their plans are.

 

[JLMC469]

This escalated quickly...

 

[Reindeer]

You do realize that MS has done the same thing with cross-gen first party (they hired a secondary dev to backport FH). So, unless you're in their meeting rooms, you don't know what their plans are.

Now compare Forza Horizon 2 to third installment that was designed for this gen from ground up and you'll see a massive difference.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Please guys, there is a thread already for software discussion , let's get back on track with the hardware.

What's your iPhone's Software version?

Where were you all this Tommy, i was starting to think you was ninjad... Are you ready to answer Darius87 now? About the L cache mistake if you don't remember.

Fake edit: by the way, my phone is a Sony Xperia XZ1 and it's on Android 9 version, does it mean anything?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You do realize that MS has done the same thing with cross-gen first party (they hired a secondary dev to backport FH). So, unless you're in their meeting rooms, you don't know what their plans are.

Some people want are desperate to cling to a narrative while avoiding rationality and logic. I actually forgot about the ROTR example (partly because it was the kind of moneyhat I didn't like), but Forza Horizon is a clear cut example. XBO version was not held back by cross-gen 360 support because a 3rd-party studio was contracted to handle that port, while the internal team just focused on XBO edition.

It'd be nice if Booty could clarify how this cross-gen support is going to work but going off past precedent, I'm thinking internal teams will handle the XSX versions and outside teams will handle the XBO versions, at least for a while. Then they'll probably stop developing specific XBO versions and just let XBO users play via streaming at a later date (eventually they'd have to move on because internet technology and security standards keep evolving and XBO won't be getting the necessary updates).

Hopefully there is some plan of release staggering between cross-gen efforts though; XSX still needs some kind of exclusives; power and price alone might not be enough of a calling card for all the early adopters especially if the older-gen and PC versions look competent enough (or more) compared with the XSX version.

Now compare Forza Horizon 2 to third installment that was designed for this gen from ground up and you'll see a massive difference.

That's true, too. Which is why MS better plan on staggering these cross-gen deployments. XSX development should be the priority, pretend like the other options don't even exist when making these XSX versions. Then maybe a year or two later, downport to XBO, spin off a PC version, have 3rd-party devs on contract do that work.

Or hell, just skip that altogether and leave the cross-gen support to Xcloud only. Stagger it, of course, but at least that way you're only truly making one version (XSX) and simply letting others play that version through an inferior method (streaming). Depending on the game, some features may not even be available through streaming, so that provides incentive to buy an XSX and play the game locally on that. And they don't waste resources getting other devs to make local versions for other platforms that, if they're gonna be released way later anyway, might as well not be released that way at all.

 

[SportsFan581]

Now compare Forza Horizon 2 to third installment that was designed for this gen from ground up and you'll see a massive difference.

Of course. But the same could be said for most if not all of the early "next-gen" exclusives. It looks different because the engine was more refined, it had nothing to do with the 360 (literally two different pieces of software as has been noted). We'll see how it plays out. I personally just don't see it as that big of a deal. I expect that most "exclusives" on the Xbox in the early going will be purchased, so this is all moot anyway.

 

[Bryank75]

Did we get anywhere with CBOAT's Edge of tomorrow stuff?

Don't think so!

Did someone start a new PS5 thread?

 

[Reindeer]

Some people want are desperate to cling to a narrative while avoiding rationality and logic. I actually forgot about the ROTR example (partly because it was the kind of moneyhat I didn't like), but Forza Horizon is a clear cut example. XBO version was not held back by cross-gen 360 support because a 3rd-party studio was contracted to handle that port, while the internal team just focused on XBO edition.

It'd be nice if Booty could clarify how this cross-gen support is going to work but going off past precedent, I'm thinking internal teams will handle the XSX versions and outside teams will handle the XBO versions, at least for a while. Then they'll probably stop developing specific XBO versions and just let XBO users play via streaming at a later date (eventually they'd have to move on because internet technology and security standards keep evolving and XBO won't be getting the necessary updates).

Hopefully there is some plan of release staggering between cross-gen efforts though; XSX still needs some kind of exclusives; power and price alone might not be enough of a calling card for all the early adopters especially if the older-gen and PC versions look competent enough (or more) compared with the XSX version.

Will have to disagree. Forza Horizon 2 is miles behind Forza Horizon 3 (game designed for this gen) from a technological standpoint. Forza Horizon 2 on 360 also featured vastly different AI and had certain parts of the map reduced or cut out.

 

[Sethbacca]

Some people want are desperate to cling to a narrative while avoiding rationality and logic. I actually forgot about the ROTR example (partly because it was the kind of moneyhat I didn't like), but Forza Horizon is a clear cut example. XBO version was not held back by cross-gen 360 support because a 3rd-party studio was contracted to handle that port, while the internal team just focused on XBO edition.

pretty sure it was established in one of the previous 600 pages that racing games are the ones least likely to be held back by a weak cpu to begin with.

 

[Reindeer]

.It looks different because the engine was more refined, it had nothing to do with the 360 (literally two different pieces of software as has been noted).

I think it had everything to do with 360 as Forza Motorsport 5 that came out a year earlier (that wasn't cross gen) was way ahead of Horizon 2. Forza Motorsport 5 wasn't held back by having to be cross gen and needing to target older hardware.

 

[SportsFan581]

Forza M is just an easier game to optimize for. That's why a basic track racer is always on the menu for a new console at launch, it's relatively easy to get a quick wow factor there.

 

[Reindeer]

Forza M is just an easier game to optimize for. That's why a basic track racer is always on the menu for a new console at launch, it's relatively easy to get a quick wow factor there.

Yet Forza Horizon 4 looks as good as Motorsport.

 

[Reindeer]

I'm gonna stop now because this has gone completely off topic. My apologies to Mods.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Will have to disagree. Forza Horizon 2 is miles behind Forza Horizon 3 (game designed for this gen) from a technological standpoint. Forza Horizon 2 on 360 also featured vastly different AI and had certain parts of the map reduced or cut out.

I edited that post and agreed with one of your earlier quotes on the matter. But with that said, FH2 360 having the missing features is at least indicative of what cross-gen ports usually entail for the older hardware. Missing features, worst graphics, simplified physics and AI etc. If the game were designed with 360 as the base and simply up-ported to XBO, it would've had all the 360's non-graphical limitations but prettier graphics/resolution.

That's the kind of thing I'm hoping (and confident) MS will avoid for XSX. Other platforms besides XSX should not even be on the internal developer's mind when making that version, simply pretend they don't exist. If they want to downport later, fine, but those versions are going to have missing features, and potentially play a lot differently, to accommodate the weaker hardware (or for PC, target a slightly wider range of setups).

The preferred solution would be to simply not develop conversions for these other systems at all; if PC and XBO players want to play the games but can't pony up for an XSX (and Lockhart isn't released at the time), they'll have to stream it. That's more than fair, it saves money for MS and the studios, and the game will still be limited by the hard limit of streaming technology itself. Plus streaming also means they may not be able to own the game or have access to post-release DLC.

pretty sure it was established in one of the previous 600 pages that racing games are the ones least likely to be held back by a weak cpu to begin with.

Yeah, that's true.

 

[PocoJoe]

Im not going to put more fuel in to the fire as I already stated what I felt was needed.

So you cant admit that you are wrong?


I could state that "earth is flat, I already stated what I felt was needed" and it would just make me an asshole with zero knowledge and even after that this would look like I think I am right. Saying that I told already what I felt is just fucking lazy and kind of says "I cant defend my arguments or admit that I am wrong" as feeling should have zero impact on these things


Games can be ported, yes.

But next gen will be much different just because the level of bandwith with ssd = if game is made from ground up that in mind, porting it to slow ass current gen just isnt that easy/possible.

Lets say that next gen game can have "10000x10000" world size and current gen game can have "100x100"

So how do you take advance of that next gen world size, if you have to think about fitting old gen world size too?

Point is: making game run on old limited hardware AND new hardware WILL equal into more limitations than making the game only for new hardware.

If someone doesn't get that, they are morons.

Switch is actually good example:

There arent any games that are made for switch and then ported for ps4/one that would really take advantage of the specs.

Witcher 3 barely runs on switch, looks like shit and IF witcher 3 would have been made originally switch in mind, it could/would be worse than what we got.

Talking about downporting existing games isnt the same thing as making game from ground up for old+new systems from the begining

 

[Hobbygaming]

Because it was actually 4gigs at that time.

I think Sony got caught short by MS and so they are trying to up the specs. Why do I think that? Because Sony wouldn't of designed their GPU to run at 2.0ghz from initial. They would have gone more Cu's and less frequency. So the fact they look like they are doing 2.0ghz screams of reaction.

Doesn't more frequency mean more transistors? Not that I believe 2 ghz

 

[SportsFan581]

We need something hardware related to fight about. Where is that Tim guy?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Prior to the AMD leaks, these forums and gaming circles were all buzzing about how Sony was gonna be 13tflops, and MS was less powerful. It was all blue skies for Sony. All the questions were about MS.
If you honestly think the AMD leaks hasn't totally flipped the PS5 narrative on these forums then you havent been reading them.
It has had an effect, and not a good one. If Sony could click their fingers and make that AMD leak disappear, do you think they would be clicking their fingers?

I think the AMD leaks only got so much negative energy because Sony hasn't showed us their "Hellblade 2"

I fully expect Sony to get tons of positive buzz once they show us something running on the PS5 that is from WWS and then there will be thousands of articles and coverage

 

[Insane Metal]

Slow news day.

 

[DJ12]

Maybe 'YakimaG' will pop back give us another couple of days excitement.

 

[Reindeer]

We need something hardware related to fight about. Where is that Tim guy?

Probably fighting on Twitter like he usually does.

 

[DJ12]

I think the AMD leaks only got so much negative energy because Sony hasn't showed us their "Hellblade 2"

I fully expect Sony to get tons of positive buzz

So they haven't shown a pre rendered "in engine" demo running at 24 FPS with no gameplay at all. Thank f for that.

Give me the godfall 1 second gameplay gif any day over that thank you.

And negativity just comes from xbots and people lapping up the cool aid, you know the easily lead pessimists that think power has any relevance this gen.

A logo reveal has created far more buzz in the real world than all leaks and reveals have for project scarlet combined.

Don't confuse gaming websites with the rest of the world

 

[01011001]

Yet Forza Horizon 4 looks as good as Motorsport.

it's still way more taxing seeing as it needs 2 modes in order to get to 4k or to 60fps on One X, while Forza 7 simply runs at 4K60.
and it's harder to develop. in Horizon 4 they had to design a whole open map, in Motorsport they literally just have to recreate real tracks that are closed off.

 

[jon3sy9]

im just wondering why nobody remembers forza horizon 2 when it released on xbox 360 and xbox one. The 360 version was a totally different game compared to the xbox one version it wasnt just resolution changes and framerates.

 

[Denis Colovic]

So you cant admit that you are wrong?


I could state that "earth is flat, I already stated what I felt was needed" and it would just make me an asshole with zero knowledge and even after that this would look like I think I am right. Saying that I told already what I felt is just fucking lazy and kind of says "I cant defend my arguments or admit that I am wrong" as feeling should have zero impact on these things


Games can be ported, yes.

But next gen will be much different just because the level of bandwith with ssd = if game is made from ground up that in mind, porting it to slow ass current gen just isnt that easy/possible.

Lets say that next gen game can have "10000x10000" world size and current gen game can have "100x100"

So how do you take advance of that next gen world size, if you have to think about fitting old gen world size too?

Point is: making game run on old limited hardware AND new hardware WILL equal into more limitations than making the game only for new hardware.

If someone doesn't get that, they are morons.

Switch is actually good example:

There arent any games that are made for switch and then ported for ps4/one that would really take advantage of the specs.

Witcher 3 barely runs on switch, looks like shit and IF witcher 3 would have been made originally switch in mind, it could/would be worse than what we got.

Talking about downporting existing games isnt the same thing as making game from ground up for old+new systems from the begining

"So you cant admit that you are wrong?"

If something here is wrong then its your agression towards my statements. You are free to think and interpret whatever you want. If I feel that I dont want to continue discussing things with someone then I have a right to stop discussing it. Its my decision. Im not in a defending position here whether you think my statemants are vaild or not. If someone is tossing around my words and is changing my original meaning of my post its not my fault.

I never said games need to be ported? You can only refer to things I wrote or stated.

"Lets say that next gen game can have "10000x10000" world size and current gen game can have "100x100"

World size is not only limited by hardware its also limited by the game engine its running on.

"Point is: making game run on old limited hardware AND new hardware WILL equal into more limitations than making the game only for new hardware. If someone doesn't get that, they are morons. "

I was talking about the pure existence of a platform and how it cant limit the capabilities of a new platform. Just because a game is cross gen does not mean the next gen version is "limited" or hold back in what it could have achieved in theory. This cant be generalized. It always depends what game it is and what scope and features it has.

Also as many already stated: this is a thread about hardware so we should continue disussing that rahter then games.

 

[Fake]

Another black and black PS5 game case concept, this time with the banner on the side like the PS1 cases. By MasterKhan_ on Reddit.

Looks great actually.

 

[Hobbygaming]

So they haven't shown a pre rendered "in engine" demo running at 24 FPS with no gameplay at all. Thank f for that.

Give me the godfall 1 second gameplay gif any day over that thank you.

And negativity just comes from xbots and people lapping up the cool aid, you know the easily lead pessimists that think power has any relevance this gen.

A logo reveal has created far more buzz in the real world than all leaks and reveals have for project scarlet combined.

Don't confuse gaming websites with the rest of the world

[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's was just in engine but I have to give them credit it was a good presentation and it got people hyped

I agree Sony is the much stronger brand and when they do show the goods, they'll knock it out of the park. I wish they at least gave the date of the PS5 reveal at CES

 

[SportsFan581]

Looks great actually.

I think the black will look great.