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[Gavin Stevens]

While your statement makes sense, the reason why I said they'd upscale Xbox One games is because the games wouldn't be designed around having an SSD or a stronger CPU. I don't know what that entails exactly, but you can't just 'port down' seamless levels with no load barriers or better physics/AI.

I agree, there are things you can do with a base SSD you can’t do with a traditional HDD.

However, don’t plan on either system taking massive advantage of these things in their first year. They will dazzle
You with fast loading, but for the most part won’t be doing much else. And that sort of thing can be done on a traditional HDD with just reduced speed.

 

[darkinstinct]

I think Phil knows what hes talking about. Sure Cerny might have more technical know how but its silly to say that Phil has no idea how games are developed. He knows what a lockhart will do to the anaconda games. his own devs wouldve told him. the fact that hes going through with it regardless of dev objections means he has weighed the pros and cons and is going ahead with it.

Hellblade 2 gives me hope though. It seems like anaconda will be the lead platform and lockhart will be the bastard child that gets scraps. games will get downported and run like shit like most switch ports. i wouldnt be surprised if they run at 720p checkerboard. there is no way hellblade 2 will run at 1080p on a 4 tflops console. not with those graphics. it barely even runs at 24 fps and 1600p on the 12 tflops console.

and you know what? im ok with that. couldnt care less about whoever buys that console. people should know they get what they pay for. everyone seems to love the switch ports so maybe the lockhart owners wont mind blurry and severely gutted ports.

Hellblade 1 runs on Switch, no? It also runs at 4K on One X. Magic, I know. Games that run at 1080p on 1.4 TF One S run at native 4K on a 6 TF One X. It's not too difficult to imagine that a 4 TF SKU could run the same games that run at 4K on a 12 TF SKU. Hell, if One S/One X taught us something it's that even a 3 TF Lockhart could run those same games at 1080p. So there's even overhead.

 

[Fake]

REE

FTFY

 

[Moses85]

PS3 outsold xbox360 in the end, but Sony lost many customers because of their mistakes. MS sold 24 million xbox consoles and 84 million xbox 360 (almost matched PS3 sales). Xbox 360 was a huge success for MS and if Sony would not react in time even more people would choose MS platform.

Success in terms of sold hardware but a brutal loss because of the ROD Desaster. This cost them billions

 

[01011001]

Lockhart only looked like an issue if you believe in the 12TF leaks in the first place.

in a scenario where SX is 12TF and SS is 4TF games would still be fine just running at 25% resolution (1080p vs. 4K)
but that scenario would really be pushing the limits.

now, if we believe the 9.xTF rumours it's an absolutely non-issue to have a 4TF system that targets 1080p.

same architecture, same CPU, same RAM and the same GPU features... just a difference in the GPU size... if that is the scenario we will end up in not single game will have an issue running on Series S (Lockhart)

the whole talking about how Lockhart will hold back Series X is completely based on the assumption that Series X is 12TF RDNA2 and Lockhart is 4TF RDNA+ with less RAM.

 

[whoever81]

Confident? That they showed the logo, remained silent just to launch a PS5 page saying they are not ready? That’s confidence?

Yes. They are confident but not quite ready. I don't see a contradiction here.

 

[Fake]

Lockhart only looked like an issue if you believe in the 12TF leaks in the first place.

in a scenario where SX is 12TF and SS is 4TF games would still be fine just running at 25% resolution (1080p vs. 4K)
but that scenario would really be pushing the limits.

now, if we believe the 9.xTF rumours it's an absolutely non-issue to have a 4TF system that targets 1080p.

same architecture, same CPU, same RAM and the same GPU features... just a difference in the GPU size... if that is the scenario we will end up in not single game will have an issue running on Series S (Lockhart)

the whole talking about how Lockhart will hold back Series X is completely based on the assumption that Series X is 12TF RDNA2 and Lockhart is 4TF RDNA+ with less RAM.

I can't believe in this differencial in TF between PS5 and seX. Either PS5 is 11TF close to seX 12TF of either seX is actually 10TF to get close to PS5 9TF.
In fact I can't believe anyone beliving in that much gap between seX and PS5. Must be logic from both sides.

Actually most of this discussion around here are based on resetera next gen conversation. Was a time when people asking for everyone to accept the 8TF rumor while accept 12TF on seX. I was impress by the time the 'NO RT' came back in neogaf time to time even after all the official info we got probably because happen in the other forum.
8TF to 12TF is a even more gap.

 

[GermanZepp]

Ok so let me get this straight... people here think that third party developers are going to completely ignore the MASSIVE current gen user base and jump straight to making games that ONLY work on brand new consoles right out of the gate? What the hell kind of drugs are you people on?

So you're telling me that all multiplatform games that are currently in development for release this year and next and maybe even a couple years forward to some degree.... are just going to totally snub hundreds of millions of console owners just assuming that they're all upgrading on day one or within the first year?

OF COURSE all devs are going to cross gen develop games for the next year or two.

They would be bat shit insane to try and strong arm force everyone to go out and buy a next gen console whether consumers want to or not (and can afford to for that matter)

People need to get over this "lockhart is holding back the industry" nonsense because hate to be the one to tell you but it's the Xbox One S and Ps4 Slim that will be holding back the industry for maybe a good 2+ years.

EVENTUALLY there will be a healthy enough user base with PS5, and XSX that they can finally drop previous GCN gen support.

If Lockhart really does contain similar but lower specs to XsX it is in no way shape or form going to hurt game development. Because it wont be previous gen. It will be a next gen system that runs games in lower resolutions than what big brother's max settings provide. Much more simple a concept than people are making it out to be.

Lockhart runs game X at dynamic 4k 60fps.

XsX runs same game X at native 4k 60fps

Or Lockhart runs game X at native 1440p 60fps.

We already see crossplay games between ps4 pro and X1X that run fine together even with visual differences.

Quit being drama queens about it already.

It's not going to be an issue.

(if Lockhart is even REAL!)

I kinda agree, but the thing is at least for me, that i won't buy a new console if there are no nextgen games that i'm interested in. I think im minority but i want a exclusive game not possible in ps4, even if i put the bar really low and the game has no "new" gameplay or nextgen features, at least gimme some next gen tech. If i can play the same game with less shiny on my PS4pro probably don't worth it.

EDIT: Something like the early Xbox 360 days, with Gears of War, Bioshock and Mass Effect, games not kinda possible in OG Xbox or PS2.

 

[SlimySnake]

Hellblade 1 runs on Switch, no? It also runs at 4K on One X. Magic, I know. Games that run at 1080p on 1.4 TF One S run at native 4K on a 6 TF One X. It's not too difficult to imagine that a 4 TF SKU could run the same games that run at 4K on a 12 TF SKU. Hell, if One S/One X taught us something it's that even a 3 TF Lockhart could run those same games at 1080p. So there's even overhead.

it runs like shit. it looks like shit. goes all the way down to 400p. i just took some screenshots from DF's comparison video. I actually set the quality to 1080p 60 fps to capture the best quality screenshot even though the game maxes out at 720p. it didnt help because the base game goes all the way down to 400p.

I mean look at this abomination.

witcher 3 runs on the switch too. it looks horrendous. like i said, i couldnt care less because im not buying that console.

 

[01011001]

I can't believe in this differencial in TF between PS5 and seX. Either PS5 is 11TF close to seX 12TF of either seX is actually 10TF to get close to PS5 9TF.
In fact I can't believe anyone beliving in that much gap between seX and PS5. Must be logic from both sides.

the funny thing about Lockhart being brought up again is that, like I said, in order to it being an issue you would need to believe in the 12TF RDNA2 Series X...
which the poeple bringing it up as an issue again don't believe in... which in return makes the Lockhart a non-issue by their own claims...

so this whole situation is very weird indeed to me.

you can't have it both ways xD
either Series X is 12TF RDNA2 and the 4TF Lockhart will be an issue....
or Series X is below 10TF RDNA1 and the 4TF Lockhart is absolutely fine....

 

[Fake]

either Series X is 12TF RDNA2 and the 4TF Lockhart will be an issue....
or Series X is below 10TF RDNA1 and the 4TF Lockhart is absolutely fine....

Lockhart will be an issue for Xbox Series X mind you, not the seX. When I told about how much no sense make release a cheap version of seX while Xbox One X is still live and still expensive make even less sense take into consideration those Lockhart price dream. I mean, Lockhart more powerful than Xbox One X and more cheap at the same time?
And the counterargument was Microsoft would stop manufacture Xbox One X, instead we get Microsoft saying all Xbox family will still be happy and live.

 

[ethomaz]

The main next gen thread. The one they always fight in

It was Mecha Meister that asked ban.
Transistor had to make a new thread.

 

[kikonawa]

lockhart,= xboxen for the masses
xbox sx = trofy console for the hardcore gamer

 

[SlimySnake]

OF COURSE all devs are going to cross gen develop games for the next year or two.

all multiplat devs yes. the entire point of having first party studios is to make sure you have at least some devs who are going to be making games that take full advantage of this $500 console you are trying to sell. the fact that MS is saying their first party studios will be acting like third party studios making multiplatform games is literally the most asanine thing ive ever heard. third party publishers cant risk developing on new consoles with small userbases. A first party publisher can, and SHOULD, and has since the very beginning. there are some exceptions like Zelda BOTW, GOW 2, GT6, but they are few and far between. I am willing to excuse Halo infinite and other games that started dev in 2015-2016, but anything after 2017 shouldve been created with next gen in mind. if Turn 10 which last shipped a game in 2017 is making a cross gen Forza 8 then we have got issues. If Rare who last shipped a game in 2018 the same time as bluepoint released SOTC is still working on a cross gen game which they ARE, it's called Everwild, we have got a big problem. if the state of decay devs who shipped a game in may 2018 and they are making a cross gen game while SSM is making a next gen GOW despite releasing a game just a few weeks before state of decay 2 then you've got to start questioning Phil's decision making.

it's literally Phil's only job. make sure you have new games for your fancy new console.

for the record, i think MS will have at least a couple of next gen exclusives at launch or during the launch window. they arent this stupid.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I agree that there should be no talk of lockheart and it should be canned. I do still hope MS have seen the light and are instead putting lockheart funds into an SX Pro.

I also think they should have just shut up, and released the games on SX and One. Same disk with different versions or two different skus, whatever. But that statement Was supposed to make people go “oh nice guy MS remembering us all!” And instead made a lot of idiots go “hurr durr SX has no exclusives and it’s games will look like Xbox one games”.

I don’t know what else to say on the subject I haven’t already, so I’ll just repeat something i said before...

if you really think the PS5 won’t have cross gen games, even Sony in house ones, then... good luck.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Why are people surprised xsx isn’t rdna2 ? Other Than the fact that one of Xbox insiders said it’s not rdna2, xsx chip is ready as seen in pictures however rdna 2 is 3 months away from production line and still under AMD testing and won’t be given to any client at this time .who ever that is using rdna2 won’t have a chip from amd till maybe June at earliest.

 

[ethomaz]

Lockhart will be a issue no matter the difference between TFs.
It is just will be a bigger the bigger the difference.
But it will always be a issue holding the the developers the whole generation.

 

[nikolino840]

it runs like shit. it looks like shit. goes all the way down to 400p. i just took some screenshots from DF's comparison video. I actually set the quality to 1080p 60 fps to capture the best quality screenshot even though the game maxes out at 720p. it didnt help because the base game goes all the way down to 400p.

I mean look at this abomination.

witcher 3 runs on the switch too. it looks horrendous. like i said, i couldnt care less because im not buying that console.

The switch screen Is 5"something,you can make low res and i don't believe it's so awful when you look with your own eyes on the screen

 

[Gavin Stevens]

As a graphics slut who always wants the best looking stuff, I have to be totally Frank here...

Witcher on Switch is amazing and I’ll have nothing bad said about it.

kthx.

 

[Mriverz]

lol people dog the switch for being 720p until they start to play it themselves. Lm3 looks great, Botw Looks great, Pokemon S&S looks great, FE 3 houses, Looks really good. Ori and the wisp is super crisp. List goes on

 

[joe_zazen]

lol people dog the switch for being 720p until they start to play it themselves. Lm3 looks great, Botw Looks great, Pokemon S&S looks great, FE 3 houses, Looks really good. Ori and the wisp is super crisp. List goes on

different people have different standards.

Too bad apple hates gaming because ipadpro is gorgeous + has crazy framerate.

 

[schaft0620]

I tried to look up 3D audio chips or DACs but couldn't find anything. I'm interested to see what its all about, and wonder if it's an expensive addition. I mean, even 20 or 30 Dollars is expensive in console terms.

The PSVR break out box primary purpose is to handle 3D audio. It also adds a second video out. The 3D audio in PSVR is pretty cool.

 

[farmerboy]

Yes. They are confident but not quite ready. I don't see a contradiction here.

Look I'm Sony through and through, but in the end we don't know anything. I would assume they're confident, but until we see a reveal we don't know what they've got.

 

[saintjules]

 

[nikolino840]

Someone can or will modify the title with series X instead of next Xbox?

 

[joe_zazen]

Look I'm Sony through and through, but in the end we don't know anything. I would assume they're confident, but until we see a reveal we don't know what they've got.

 

[Vinex]

People will believe what they like to believe BUT the reality is set behind the scenes.

People out here downplaying the PS5 for being 9.2tf (based on leaks & rumors) & they say Sony has no confidence etc.


I'm gonna say hey guys you know you're embarrassing yourself because you're downplaying the most unpredictable company out there. Sony are crazy bastard don't expect them to be "oh I missed MS caught me out off guard"

Praise yourself to be embarrassed from the same company who tweeted a major acquisition like Insomniac in a random tweet that took over gamescom.

In the end you have the right to laugh at me, but plz capture this & come at me when Sony reveals the PS5 & let see who is willing to take the L

 

[Gavin Stevens]

lol people dog the switch for being 720p until they start to play it themselves. Lm3 looks great, Botw Looks great, Pokemon S&S looks great, FE 3 houses, Looks really good. Ori and the wisp is super crisp. List goes on

LM3 is straight up one of the best looking games of the generation, it’s straight up bloody gorgeous.

 

[hemo memo]

Yes. They are confident but not quite ready. I don't see a contradiction here.

My theory is that they were pressured to show something because their direct competitor already “confident” enough to show the console. That’s not a good sign.

 

[darkinstinct]

Why are people surprised xsx isn’t rdna2 ? Other Than the fact that one of Xbox insiders said it’s not rdna2, xsx chip is ready as seen in pictures however rdna 2 is 3 months away from production line and still under AMD testing and won’t be given to any client at this time .who ever that is using rdna2 won’t have a chip from amd till maybe June at earliest.

There is no RDNA2. There is Next-gen RDNA, which is exactly the same wording that AMD used at their press conference to describe the Xbox APU. Which is also what has "specific raytraced lighting effects". Which is also what was leaked months ago as Navi21 (while the Oberon APU was leaked as Navi10). People also like to refer to Navi21 as "Big Navi", the unannounced PC GPUs based on it. There's also Jez Corden saying "there's a reason why devkits for PS5 came much earlier than for XSX". That reason could very well be that Xbox is using Navi21, the architecture had its tapeout in September and is using 7nm+. XSX could have a chiplet design of 7nm Zen2 with 7nm+ Navi21.

 

[Agnostic2020]

There is no RDNA2. There is Next-gen RDNA, which is exactly the same wording that AMD used at their press conference to describe the Xbox APU. Which is also what has "specific raytraced lighting effects". Which is also what was leaked months ago as Navi21 (while the Oberon APU was leaked as Navi10). People also like to refer to Navi21 as "Big Navi", the unannounced PC GPUs based on it. There's also Jez Corden saying "there's a reason why devkits for PS5 came much earlier than for XSX". That reason could very well be that Xbox is using Navi21, the architecture had its tapeout in September and is using 7nm+. XSX could have a chiplet design of 7nm Zen2 with 7nm+ Navi21.

Again there is rdna2 as named by amd and specified rdna 2 . Navi 21 is rdna 2. Xsx could be the equivalent but on rdna+ which is rdna 1 plus rt and vrs. Rdna 2 is on 7nm EUV not 7nm like rdna1. Non of the consoles are getting 7nm euv cause it wont be ready on time foe high quantity launch this year.it is under testing now and will be unveiled in few months by amd.

 

[Reindeer]

There is no RDNA2. There is Next-gen RDNA, which is exactly the same wording that AMD used at their press conference to describe the Xbox APU. Which is also what has "specific raytraced lighting effects". Which is also what was leaked months ago as Navi21 (while the Oberon APU was leaked as Navi10). People also like to refer to Navi21 as "Big Navi", the unannounced PC GPUs based on it. There's also Jez Corden saying "there's a reason why devkits for PS5 came much earlier than for XSX". That reason could very well be that Xbox is using Navi21, the architecture had its tapeout in September and is using 7nm+. XSX could have a chiplet design of 7nm Zen2 with 7nm+ Navi21.

Not saying Series X GPU is RDNA2, but didn't AMD recently refer to upcoming Big Navi as Next Gen RDNA? They didn't cal it RDNA2.

 

[SlimySnake]

Again there is rdna2 as named by amd and specified rdna 2 . Navi 21 is rdna 2. Xsx could be the equivalent but on rdna+ which is rdna 1 plus rt and vrs. Rdna 2 is on 7nm EUV not 7nm like rdna1. Non of the consoles are getting 7nm euv cause it wont be ready on time foe high quantity launch this year

man, imagine if that 405mm2 chip is on 7nm euv. so it would actually be 485mm2 on 7nm. you could fit 80 CUs in that thing.

it really sucks that neither console maker is using the best tech available to make their consoles.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Not saying Series X GPU is RDNA 2, but didn't AMD recently refer to upcoming Big Navi as Next Gen RDNA?

Power Your Dreams with Xbox Series X, Available Holiday 2020 - Xbox Wire

Xbox Game Studios unveils Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II, a new chapter in the award-winning Hellblade story from Ninja Theory For eighteen years and three console generations, the Xbox community has shown us the power both games and fun can have on all of us. As we enter a new generation of gaming...

news.xbox.com

From a technical standpoint, this will manifest as world-class visuals in 4K at 60FPS, with possibility of up to 120FPS, including support for Variable Refresh Rate (VRR), and 8K capability. Powered by our custom-designed processor leveraging the latest Zen 2 and next generation RDNA architecture from our partners at AMD, Xbox Series X will deliver hardware accelerated ray tracing and a new level of performance never before seen in a console. Additionally, our patented Variable Rate Shading (VRS) technology will allow developers to get even more out of the Xbox Series X GPU and our next-generation SSD will virtually eliminate load times and bring players into their gaming worlds faster than ever before.

Take it with a grain of salt but RDNA is out now, Next-Gen RDNA could actually mean something. This could also play into the assumption that Sony has a chip external to the GPU to handle RT, if that's still floating around.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Not saying Series X GPU is RDNA2, but didn't AMD recently refer to upcoming Big Navi as Next Gen RDNA? They didn't cal it RDNA2.

Here is tye navi 21 specified rdna 2

 

[Agnostic2020]

Power Your Dreams with Xbox Series X, Available Holiday 2020 - Xbox Wire

Xbox Game Studios unveils Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II, a new chapter in the award-winning Hellblade story from Ninja Theory For eighteen years and three console generations, the Xbox community has shown us the power both games and fun can have on all of us. As we enter a new generation of gaming...

news.xbox.com

Take it with a grain of salt but RDNA is out now, Next-Gen RDNA could actually mean something. This could also play into the assumption that Sony has a chip external to the GPU to handle RT, if that's still floating around.

Thats a pr word .rdna is next generation of gpu from amd. If it was rdna 2 ms would say rdna2 .is that realy so controversial ? Ms chip is ready . Rdna 2 is still under testing man.pridcution of 7nm euv hasnt started yet .

 

[Okami Haundo]

The Wired articles, skipping E3 and showing the logo. Was that the decision of the new execs? because there is a pattern here.

In the context of management changeover, I’d say those moves make sense. I’ve seen plenty of companies cut things to the bone while they work on a new strategy.

In this case, PS4 is doing more than well enough to buy them time while they figure things out.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Thats a pr word .rdna is next generation of gpu from amd. If it was rdna 2 ms would say rdna2 .is that realy so controversial ? Ms chip is ready . Rdna 2 is still under testing man.pridcution of 7nm euv hasnt started yet .

AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su Confirms Next-Generation RDNA GPUs Are Coming This Year

Dr. Su confirming that a new GPU line-up is coming this year is a testament to AMD’s “pedal-to-the-metal” stance as of late.

www.forbes.com

“Yeah. So, in 2019, we launched our new architecture in GPUs. It's the RDNA architecture, and that was the Navi-based products. You should expect that those will be refreshed in 2020, and we'll have a next-generation RDNA architecture that will be part of our 2020 line-up…"

-Lisa Su

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea if that's the case, but even AMD throws the term "Next-Gen RDNA" around. Thinking about the way PR works, everyone needs to deliver the same message and that might be what's happening here.

 

[PocoJoe]

The switch screen Is 5"something,you can make low res and i don't believe it's so awful when you look with your own eyes on the screen

havent played hellblade but witcher looks just like that on switch, just shitty and so bad that it ruins the magical atmosphere of the world. small screen cant save everything. IF it would run on 720p it would be little bit better.

Switch is just too weak to run modern 3D games with its native res. even with laughable low details.

5" screen with sub 720p looks like poop on a microwave, after the explosion

 

[Agnostic2020]

AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su Confirms Next-Generation RDNA GPUs Are Coming This Year

Dr. Su confirming that a new GPU line-up is coming this year is a testament to AMD’s “pedal-to-the-metal” stance as of late.

www.forbes.com

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea if that's the case, but even AMD throws the term "Next-Gen RDNA" around. Thinking about the way PR works, everyone needs to deliver the same message and that might be what's happening here.

Yea but as shown in the tweet amd is referring to them as rdna2 to show they are on a different node . Rdna 1 is 7nm rdna 2 is 7nm euv. We have seen ms chip it’s ready . 7nm euv is not in production yet till another few months.

If any of them decide to go 7nm euv they can expect 500,000 to a million sales for the holiday . That’s as much they can get production wise which both won’t do that Ofcourse

 

[ResilientBanana]

Yea but as shown in the tweet amd is referring to them as rdna2 to show they are on a different node . Rdna 1 is 7nm rdna 2 is 7nm euv. We have seen ms chip it’s ready . 7nm euv is not in production yet till another few months

To be fair, everything we've seen is working prototype. Even Sony could have something up their sleeve, but wording is important.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Microsoft and Sony should just do a console together and just call it Sony Playstation X

Sony already did

PSX (digital video recorder) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Agnostic2020]

To be fair, everything we've seen is working prototype. Even Sony could have something up their sleeve, but wording is important.

Yea in the next few months it will be more clear . If the go with 7nm euv they can have maybe 500,000 consoles ready in 2020 due to demand and yields .

 

[Agnostic2020]

man, imagine if that 405mm2 chip is on 7nm euv. so it would actually be 485mm2 on 7nm. you could fit 80 CUs in that thing.

it really sucks that neither console maker is using the best tech available to make their consoles.

If any of them delayed to 2021 then they could have done 7nm euv. this year demand will be high for 7nm euv and yields will be low . Unless they fancy having 500,000 consoles for launch Holiday period , they will both stay clear of 7nm euv imo

 

[Moses85]

it runs like shit. it looks like shit. goes all the way down to 400p. i just took some screenshots from DF's comparison video. I actually set the quality to 1080p 60 fps to capture the best quality screenshot even though the game maxes out at 720p. it didnt help because the base game goes all the way down to 400p.

I mean look at this abomination.

witcher 3 runs on the switch too. it looks horrendous. like i said, i couldnt care less because im not buying that console.

But, but, but can you play in in public? (Train, Airplane, Bus)

 

[DeepEnigma]

The switch screen Is 5"something,you can make low res and i don't believe it's so awful when you look with your own eyes on the screen

The Switch plugs into a TV as well.

 

[sonomamashine]

I can't believe in this differencial in TF between PS5 and seX. Either PS5 is 11TF close to seX 12TF of either seX is actually 10TF to get close to PS5 9TF.
In fact I can't believe anyone beliving in that much gap between seX and PS5. Must be logic from both sides.

Yep, either both +/- 10% Rx 5700 XT or +/- 10% RTX 2080.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

 

[Agnostic2020]

That doesn’t mean automatically ps5. Does it ?

 

[Ellery]

That doesn’t mean automatically ps5. Does it ?

Nope. Probably not even related to PS5 at all.