devilNprada
Member
Probably not a lot of people under 60 are first gen gamers.
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Probably not a lot of people under 60 are first gen gamers.
trancefreak64
Banned
Come on Sony were over a 1000.
bitbydeath
Member
no that's just a way more reasonable number when we think about this current generation.
if the new consoles actually are above 12TF we will have consoles that rival high end PCs... and last gen systems didn't even rival 2 year old mid range PCs... literally... the PS4's GPU was a slightly pimped up version of a then already almost 2 year old mid range AMD card.
so I actually think most people, in order to avoid being disappointed, just expect the new generation to be similar to the current one... low specs, at a relatively low pricepoint
I still don't really expect more than 9-10TF, if the 12+TF are real I will be happy and all is dandy, but if they will be between 9 and 10 I get what I expected, which is a bit disappointing but
That’s because tech has gotten better and you can now get more power in smaller boxes. Just look at how far mobiles have come since the generation started and they are tiny.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Not full frame, pretty cropped. Very bad for lenses with strong bokeh. Micro-thrid sensor, pretty small. Should go with SH1 for that matter, but the lack of lenses is the biggest problem. Sony is on top of this mirrorless game with the biggest lens selection. Thought about Blackmagic 6K but that one has shit auto-focus.
As you see, it's confusing and the safer bit was to wait for a 4K@60fps+ from Sony to me, full frame with no compromises.
bitbydeath
Member
Let's be honest @OsirisBlack said that he was told that both companies target ABOVE 12Tf, then a guy said he thinks that both will be around 10-11tf then both @OsirisBlack &HeisenbergFX4 reacted with "Lit" emoji or whatever.
Now the question is what the fuck is going on?? Is it 12 or 10tf?? This shit is more confusing than Drake's songs. Bruh
The flames weren’t in agreement.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
no that's just a way more reasonable number when we think about this current generation.
if the new consoles actually are above 12TF we will have consoles that rival high end PCs... and last gen systems didn't even rival 2 year old mid range PCs... literally... the PS4's GPU was a slightly pimped up version of a then already almost 2 year old mid range AMD card.
so I actually think most people, in order to avoid being disappointed, just expect the new generation to be similar to the current one... low specs, at a relatively low pricepoint
I still don't really expect more than 9-10TF, if the 12+TF are real I will be happy and all is dandy, but if they will be between 9 and 10 I get what I expected, which is a bit disappointing but
You got solid points, but I trust the insiders as all the details has piled up towards 12+.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
01011001
Banned
it's not about what we can get into what. if we look at last gen, they didn't even try to be competitive in terms of performance.
extremely low end CPU, and a 2 year old GPU that was already mid range when it released.
the PS4's GPU was based on a mid range GPU by AMD that was released about 20 months ahead of the PS4 at a price of around $220. at that same time, 20 months ahead of the PS4's launch, AMD released a 4TF Graphics Card which was their SECOND most powerful one released that year.
if we go with above 12TF, that is higher than any current RDNA graphics card on the market today which is a 9TF card at $350 and above depending on vendor... do you see the difference here?
that's why I still kinda can't believe the above 12TF claim... again, it would be amazing but I just can't believe it honestly... it's too good to be true and I am a natural skeptic
which often makes me doubt stuff but keeps me from being overly disappointed most of the time.
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bitbydeath
Member
it's not about what we can get into what. if we look at last gen, they didn't even try to be competitive in terms of performance.
extremely low end CPU, and a 2 year old GPU that was already mid range when it released.
the PS4's GPU was based on a mid range GPU by AMD that was released about 20 months ahead of the PS4 at a price of around $220. at that same time, 20 months ahead of the PS4's launch, AMD released a 4TF Graphics Card WHICH WAS THEIR SECOND most powerful one released that year.
if we go with above 12TF, that is higher than any current RDNA graphics card on the market today which is a 9TF card at $350 and above depending on vendor... do you see the difference here?
that's why I still kinda can't believe the above 12TF claim... again, it would be amazing but I just can't believe it honestly... it's too good to be true and I am a natural skeptic
The OG PS4 was the most powerful and the fans got loud depending on the game which shows the ceiling of what it could handle at the time.
iPhone 5s was the latest mobile tech in 2013 and there is a massive difference between that and the iPhone 11.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
it's not about what we can get into what. if we look at last gen, they didn't even try to be competitive in terms of performance.
extremely low end CPU, and a 2 year old GPU that was already mid range when it released.
the PS4's GPU was based on a mid range GPU by AMD that was released about 20 months ahead of the PS4 at a price of around $220. at that same time, 20 months ahead of the PS4's launch, AMD released a 4TF Graphics Card which was their SECOND most powerful one released that year.
if we go with above 12TF, that is higher than any current RDNA graphics card on the market today which is a 9TF card at $350 and above depending on vendor... do you see the difference here?
that's why I still kinda can't believe the above 12TF claim... again, it would be amazing but I just can't believe it honestly... it's too good to be true and I am a natural skeptic
Didn't forget you, but I ran out of tickets but can afford you this if you like
M-V2
Member
Well I use it for something in agreement with & excited for it, I don't know how it used for disagreement, but who knows I could be wrong.
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01011001
Banned
the PS4 got loud because the case was just too small.
if we had both systems be the size of the base XBox One or Series X they could have had a 4TF GPU in there no problem.
the XBox One famously is almost half empty, all that space was to make extra sure it doesn't overheat... and that thing was even less powerful.
the noise level of the base PS4 was also due to really shitty and tiny fans used... when my PC's fans really go bonkers (which they rarely do but I tested some stuff and I once connected a wire wrong so all the power went to the fans instead of my GPU lol... that was scary) they don't even get as loud as a base PS4.
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sonomamashine
Member
I understand the exitement, but gotta get realistic.You just enjoy ruining the party
Moridianae
Member
The age of what is "reasonable" to expect in a console is over. You're looking at >=12TF systems that redefine what is capable in a console.
I wish Sony would just fire off something. All this "Soony." Sigh. Maybe they'll give us something before the end of the week...
I wish Sony would just fire off something. All this "Soony." Sigh. Maybe they'll give us something before the end of the week...
01011001
Banned
a GTX 1070 is my guess... but that would be 1080p at low settings in many games I bet.
but that's speaking deeper into the generation, at first most games will run fine on a 1070 or a 1660
Insane Metal
Member
Did this happen? I wanna see it, where's my 5 seconds of fame LOLBreaking News on some random Youtube site’s . Famous Neogaf InsiderInsane Metal Confirms 18gb of Gddr6 on the Ps5! The news was leaked for Neogafs 1k page mark with no active Op!
Congrats Metal you made it big!! (Dont forgot about us peons)
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I woud say 3-4TF as 4K is 1080px4, the number suggests Lockhart as well. 4TF of RDNA or Nvidia's (Turing?).
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01011001
Banned
on PC, due to less optimised games, you need to account for some overhead there... I would say 5 to 6 TF to be save
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sonomamashine
Member
Lol you went looking for it didnt you
TLZ
Banned
I think he meant
BlacknGold_Blood
Member
Thanks for the info. We’ve been desperate for this kinda stuff. Tell me, can you clarify what you meant by “Above 12. That is not for the XSX or PS5” ?
HawarMiran
Banned
give Insid0rs a new color so it is easier to hunt them down when shit goes sideways. Some kind of brandmark
TLZ
Banned
They're still aren't revealed aren't they?
Maybe because Sony's SSD is more expensive they had to stick to 500gb? Maybe.
That's exactly what they did with PS3 and I definitely wouldn't recommend they repeat it. Just release one and let people expand storage at their own time.
devilNprada
Member
Insane Metal
Member
Let's recap a few things we actually do know or heard about:
- Spencer said that when you do the math the XSX is twice the power of the XBX. 6x2 = 12TF.
- Some journalists said both companies were absolutely going for higher numbers than Google Stadia (10.7TF).
- Rumors and more rumors about 12, 13 and even 14TF devkits.
- "Big Navi" still hasn't been revealed but it's estimated to be more powerful than RTX 2080Ti. So it's safe to say the consoles will be somewhere between RX 5700XT and Big Navi, since both will have HW RT, something the RX lacks.
- Ryzen mobile has awesome performance for a low TDP. Desktop parts have better performance but at the cost of a higher TDP. Guess which they'll go with. (my guess is that it makes sense to go for a better GPU and a less powerful CPU, hence a mobile part).
- Alleged >2GHz for the PS5 GPU doesn't make sense as the sweet spot for the 5700XT is around 1.8Ghz. Going up the clock gets a small performance improvement at the cost of a *huge* TDP increase.
- 7nm+ EUV for now seems improbable, as it's a very novel process which takes time to become cheaper and get better yields. Also, the demand would be way too high for TSMC to be able to provide enough units.
Having all that in mind I do believe we're gonna have some very powerful consoles. But I don't think they'll come cheap. 499-599 would be my guess. And that would still probably take some loss.
- Spencer said that when you do the math the XSX is twice the power of the XBX. 6x2 = 12TF.
- Some journalists said both companies were absolutely going for higher numbers than Google Stadia (10.7TF).
- Rumors and more rumors about 12, 13 and even 14TF devkits.
- "Big Navi" still hasn't been revealed but it's estimated to be more powerful than RTX 2080Ti. So it's safe to say the consoles will be somewhere between RX 5700XT and Big Navi, since both will have HW RT, something the RX lacks.
- Ryzen mobile has awesome performance for a low TDP. Desktop parts have better performance but at the cost of a higher TDP. Guess which they'll go with. (my guess is that it makes sense to go for a better GPU and a less powerful CPU, hence a mobile part).
- Alleged >2GHz for the PS5 GPU doesn't make sense as the sweet spot for the 5700XT is around 1.8Ghz. Going up the clock gets a small performance improvement at the cost of a *huge* TDP increase.
- 7nm+ EUV for now seems improbable, as it's a very novel process which takes time to become cheaper and get better yields. Also, the demand would be way too high for TSMC to be able to provide enough units.
Having all that in mind I do believe we're gonna have some very powerful consoles. But I don't think they'll come cheap. 499-599 would be my guess. And that would still probably take some loss.
TLZ
Banned
HDD price isn't the same as SSD price. On top of that if Sony is using some proprietary tech it'd cost more I think. Even if it's just normal SSD, if it's one of the fastest in the market it'll be costly.
For me it makes sense.
Edit: As for expansion, if it's a normal SSD it shouldn't be an issue.
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JAMMA
Last warning for console wars
I’ve been pretty happy with the Dolby Atmos support on Xbox this gen already, so looking forward to the future!
Xbox Series X to Feature Dedicated Audio Hardware Acceleration
According to the description of a GDC 2020 presentation, the Xbox Series X will feature dedicated audio hardware accelarationwccftech.com
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Didn't forget you, but I ran out of tickets but can afford you this if you like
Kerbal Space Program? We takin this party to Space Y’all!
JAMMA
Last warning for console wars
12TF
saintjules
Member
If I'm not mistaken, that hype train took some time to get releasedYou just enjoy ruining the party
Gamernyc78
Banned
Add to tht the new samsunh s20 tht literally is the most powerful phone in the world and a super beast and these engineers know how to make shit work.
Imtjnotu
Member
Hopefully they let us choose between its internal 6k and its output 4k. There isn't really anytbing wrong with my A7iii but I'm usually one to go newer and better. I just want even better low light and more AI for helping in shadows like the way Google does it on the pixel. If it gave me dual exposure I'd die happy
Rudius
Member
I love my PSVR and play it more then TV games this days. Knowing you got excited for next gen VR after seeing AAA games on PS5/Series X truly made my day.Yes waiting on the page but I do have something that I can share.
Also I would like to publicly state That
PS: Lurked for years, this is my first post on Neogaf.
Doesn't add up as Phil Spencer gas stated they have a final Series X ready. Jason also stated PS5 is ahead of schedule.
Weird to not have near final specs now.
Finally are you verified, if not are random posters here allowed to say they know shit without the need for verification. Cause when I used to use GAF before you have to be verified unless rules have changed around here recently.
Neo Blaster
Member
Gotta love Ubisoft bullshots. We know nothing about next gen performance but one thing: no matter how powerful these machines are, Ubisoft will show something that will be severely downgraded.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I can’t wait to see what we hope is possible on PlayStation 6! C’mon Ubisoft!!
Ellery
Member
- You don't need 12TF to be more powerful than the Xbox one X. Architectural improvements in the next generation only need roughly 9 - 10 TF to match the 12 TF of the Xbox One X.
- No idea if the consoles are more than 10.7TF, but both consoles will definitely be faster than Stadia. Reason see above.
- Devkits are devkits and don't necessarily reflect final hardware. Maybe early devkits had a different set of hardware to "emulate" the architecture of the final product. For example a 13TF GNC devkit was a placeholder for a 10TF Navi GPU
- I am curious about how AMD is going to handle RayTracing and what this year products are going to look like. The consoles won't have big Navi, because the chip is going to be bigger than the Xbox Series X chip we have already seen. Somewhere between might be realistic yes, but too early to tell.
- I agree, but no idea what CPU they are actually going to use. All Ryzen CPUs have an awesome "TDP" if they are clocked low. I probably could have my 3700X running at 20W at lower clocks and it would perform magically well.
- I very much agree here. A super high clocked Navi makes zero sense because that is way past the sweetspot. Higher CUs + lower clocks make much more sense than fewer CUs + higher clocks.
- Yes they were planned long in advance. They already have final products and know exactly what is going in. They have no room for experimentation.
Needless to say I am extremely excited to see the final product and what they managed to pull off. No matter what the rumors are my feelings are still more on the conservative side of things regarding how strong the gpu is inside the chip and I have yet to see something that would realistically explain the possibility of a 12 TF RDNA Navi chip inside the consoles on top of the RayTracing implementation we have seen nothing of.
I hope AMD can pull it off. I hope I am wrong, but I also hoped I was wrong in 2012/2013 when people were saying consoles are going to be 3 TF, but they ended up being 1.3 and 1.8 TF.
Edit : For clarification I think 12TF is actually possible for a high CU count chip in an expensive and power hungry console. Above 12 TF much less so.
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Self High Five
Member
Am I the only one who caught this & confused? Above 12 is NOT for XSX or PS5?
Fun Fanboy
Banned
You better be Indian saying that, or I'M GOING TO BE TRIGGERED!!!!!
Imtjnotu
Member
NEW SWITCH 12TF
Gamernyc78
Banned
I was confused too it didnt make sense but I left it alone. You go on talking about how the dev says its aiming for it but then say "it's not for Xbox or psv" tht threw me off.
Lone Wolf
Member
Dev kits get numurous updates, both hardware and software. Even after the consoles release.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I take it as the 12 number is not one or the other targeting but both systems are.
Smoke6
Member
Man get outta here with that negativity mayne!!!
Self High Five
Member
It doesn't make sense since through out his post he's already referring to both...so there was no need explicitly name consoles. You can't even say it was a typo since it was so misplaced.
I'm not gonna throw out accusations, but if the explanation from him is simply another "Yes". then I think people can figure this out....
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Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Please tell me people don’t think Dev kits are useless after a console releases. LOL!!!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I got a Canon 70D (mostly for picture taking), but I want to get into more video. Can my Canon lenses fit on one of the newer Sony mirrorless cameras?
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