-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sophia Narwitz: Gaming journalism insider outs 'clique' that does not tolerate right leaning newcomers
- Thread starter DryvBy
- Start date
TheKillerStove
Banned
Devs still listen to them, especially foreign devs looking to get into the western market.
SCB3
Member
I'm a big fan of her stuff over the past year or so, really excellent writing and on twitter shes just a joy. I will always like the fact that despite being trans, doesn't use it to get an agenda across and actually calls other woke trans people out of their shit, its so refreshing
Well, it seems like Neogaf is the right wing Resetera. Despite you guys claiming you just want to have fun with videogames, i can see politics and SJW related articles on gaming side growing at an alarming rate.
For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".
For a place that wants to be chill and just have fun you have quite the persecution complex and are obsessed with destroying progressives, just like the other forum is obsessed with destroying "nazis".
Brazen
Member
If this was the case you'd already be marked or receiving a ban. This is a thread calling a quacking waddling webbed-footed bird a duck, nothing more. So it's not "same thing, other side".
The world needs to loosen up and Neogaf has been pretty chill with all since for as long as I've been browsing here.
Last edited:
TheKillerStove
Banned
While this place does lean right now, I wouldnt call it another resetera. You can still talk about the other side of the coin here. You might get heckled by a few people, but you can actually argue your point of view without fear of being banned. That alone makes this place leagues better than era.
I'm anxiously waiting for a warning or a ban for speaking the truth. I just can't stand hypocrisy. Neogaf is not chill at all lately, it's all about left wing and Sjw that want to ruin videogame industry, this is another article added to the pile.
You see left wing conspiracy where there isn't, just like they see right wing conspiracy where there isn't. From my experience reading variuos videogame websites skills have always been rewarded and i see there is enough balance in right wing and left wing leaning videogame journalists presence.
Last edited:
Kokoloko85
Member
Jason Shreirer...... always thought the guy was up his own after Yong Yae interview.
“Conspiracy nonsense”.... why not give an anwser if its not true?
Why do people still say conspiracies like its a point to put something down and disprove it.
Tin hat wearers..... use to think the government had surveillance on them and were made fun of. ALot of it proven true by Snowden, Assange and Manning.
“Conspiracy nonsense”.... why not give an anwser if its not true?
Why do people still say conspiracies like its a point to put something down and disprove it.
Tin hat wearers..... use to think the government had surveillance on them and were made fun of. ALot of it proven true by Snowden, Assange and Manning.
Last edited:
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
And it gets called out regularly. The difference is people don't get banned for it here, you have every right to call people out on their bullshit or ignore it. I do. Never even had a warning.
You're bound to see more of the stuff you're complaining about in a place where it's allowed to happen, because there's so few places it can happen these days without people being silenced.
Bryank75
Banned
I have absolutely no desire to 'destroy' progressives... I think mostly people just want a little balance or some representation of other views.
Right now, it's like only one point of view is permitted.... It's like Chinese style censorship.
Shmunter
Member
???
You’re arguing against the very topic of the thread, which is the very topic of the article this thread is based on ???
I think you’re shooting from the hip without doing your homework.
TriSuit666
Banned
The Gamerjournopro group was no conspiracy, and caused me to lose massive respect for the people in that group, some of whom I've met in real life. I'm not surprised some of the same faces are cropping up in this supposed new group.
Have never rated Schrier's work, seems too thin-skinned to be a classed as a 'proper' Journalist.
MayauMiao
Member
Unlike resetera, mods here don't ban you if you declare yourself a democrat. Try doing that in resetera.
The Scrivener
Member
Oh, either I forgot or didn't know she was trans. Cool. Judge the content, not the creator, isn't it.
I don't see why we need to label us left or right in the gaming world anyway. It's sad. You have GAF and Reset, and some conservative journalists losing their jobs or status for nothing at all.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
If no conservative writers exist on Kotaku, that is not necessarily indicative of a specific policy for hiring. It stands to question how many conservative writers would want to write for Kotaku. When a publication has a clear political leaning, then it does not require any discriminatory effort on the side of the HR department to have a staff that does not contain people who are (openly) opposing the politicial leaning of the website.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
Your anxiety is a reflection of you, not this community.
Once you have been deplatformed for having a 'wrong' opinion from the rest of the group then your projection of anxiety will have merit.
As it is, people not trying to shut you down. Instead they are listening to what you have said and are debating you openly. And others - such as myself - are able to see the exchange of viewpoints and have the freedom to put their own forwards without worrying about whether my opinion is right or wrong.
Many enjoy repeating the phrase "Diversity is our strength".
But, as Jason Schreier and others have conveniently demonstrated, these people repeat this mantra in its most shallow and superficial interpretation. Skin colour. Identity. Immutable and, as such, wholly worthless, characteristics.
This community doesn't preach that tired mantra.
This community practices it.
And it practices it in a way that matters: diversity of views, opinions, positions. No matter who you are.
This should be the norm in any community that understands the meaning of the word 'community'.
If you feel anxiety, it should be for those communities that don't understand the meaning of that word, and for those communities that don't practice what they preach.
You are among friends here.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
A fair point - certainly as someone left of centre I'd find Kotaku, RPS, Eurogamer et al a bit too much to deal with on a daily basis and would absolutely never want to write for them.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Replace 'conservative writers' with 'muslim writers' and get back to me.
Also the article is about a clique that extends beyond Kotaku, so your strawman does not accurately account for the substance of the claims:
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I wouldn't expect many muslim writers wanting to write for a specifically Christian or even atheist publication either.
And I was answering to Sophnar's tweet reply, where she counters the claim her article is nonsense by asking for an openly conservative writer at Kotaku. It is not a comment on the article at large.
Last edited:
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
A curious argument.
Those journa-vists that actively argue that environments must be changed to be more inclusive and inviting for the sake of inclusivity and diversity (ie: making the games industry a more inviting environment for women)...
..yet when it's their own environment that is 'problematic' in terms of encouraging inclusivity and diversity (of things that are not worthless immutable characteristics) then it's just a shrug and apathy - or, as Jason Schreier has demonstrated - an active effort to deplatform, discredit and dismiss?
Last edited:
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
She didn't, she asked for an openly right leaning or centrist at any gaming publication.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Certainly not any gaming publication (that would be pretty easy to do actually, since there are clearly right-wing publications). She starts it with "his" publication (so Kotaku) and then names three more specifically progressive* websites (Polygon, Vice, Eurogamer) and, admittedly, two publications that I would not know have any political leanings (Gamespot, Game Revolution, the latter I do not even know at all). As a kotaku writer for many years, he can hardly be expected to know the policies or political views of authors of other websites, so him being unable to answer this question with names likely comes down to him being unable to answer this question with names from his own publication, which is not a strong argument.
* I wouldn't call any of those websites actually left leaning, because they usually do not discuss important issues such as fiscal policies and social security systems. Some writers may be right wing on such issues, but I doubt that Sophnar was interested in people who are right wing on such issues.
Last edited:
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I don't know if you genuinely can't understand what she meant in that Tweet, but it's very obvious she means "name any" when she ends the Tweet with "Or..." and trails off. Ask her if you want, she's in this thread at times.
If Jason can't think of a single openly right-leaning gaming writer from a gaming publication, her point kinda stands. I certainly can't.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
You can't see how responding with "what about you?!" to that kind of question only reinforces the point? You had such difficulty thinking of one that you had to fall back on the person asking the question? That's a high school ploy, come off it.
If you really have to play that game, name another, and no, Colin does not belong to a publication.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I can name a grand total of five different video game journalists in English speaking countries. I know Jim Sterling, Sophnar, Schreier, Moriarty (and not for his journalism, but the woman free time thing) and that Celebi guy.
It's not a highschool ploy either, Sophnar is a right wing author who I know writes for video game publications, so clearly she qualifies.
EDIT: There's also this guy who makes the not-so-funny-but-very-wordy videos at Kotaku. Don't remember his name right now, but he exists.
Last edited:
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
And I can't name many more than that either, but the point stands, and I bet both of us would struggle to find more. She's asking Jason Schreier though, probably the most famous game journalist on the planet, who does know these people. And instead of instantly dismantling Narwitz's point and publicly demonstration that she's wrong, by simply pointing a few out, he turns and runs with his tail between his legs because he can't.
Notably, he also doesn't say "what about you?", because she qualifies, but she's the one asking the question. Try and pull that "but what about you?" shit if, say, a black person, gay person, or woman minority asks why there aren't more fellow minorities in their field and see how it works out. It's such a juvenile tactic to get out of answering a question.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Great work as always
sophnar0747
sophnar0747
Sota4077
Member
I am pretty sure they're all of that mindset. Colin Moriarty and Jason Shreir are the same person on opposite sides of the political spectrum. They both love to play the victim card and when articles like this one pop up they start hearing "I've got a golden ticket" in their head because they know they're going to get free publicity. Neither one truly gives a rats ass about whether conservatives in gaming are persecuted. Jason doesn't care because hes on the side that can cast judgement with impunity and never suffer consequence of doing so. Colin doesn't give a shit either hes just doing the exact same thing in the gaming realm that works for conservatives, or any person for that matter, in national politics which is to never stop insisting that you are persecuted or treated unfairly so that you can galvanize support around your from folks who think as you do.
If you still dont believe me. The author of the article is literally someone who works for Colin Moriarity as far as I am aware. So this entire thing is little more than astroturfing for his brand. But like I said. Dickhead Schreir also cannot resist the urge to put himself into every political discussion on gaming. He too has an opportunistic little weasel who unfortunately knows how to market himself. So, here we are. Talking about Colin and Jason...
Last edited:
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
It depends on what question is being asked. If the question actually is "are there any right wing game journalists anywhere on earth" then if the person asking is a right wing game journalist, it is obviously the most reasonable answer to say "yes, you are one". "Why aren't there more black people in the field" can of course not be answered by "you are in the field", it is not a logically sound answer to the question. But that is a completely different question.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
Gaf has no particular political stance, though if you'd like to talk politics there is a board for that
I think this article proves that some discussions about the application of politics in gaming are going to come up; it'd be unavoidable.
That's kind of the issue. That sort of logic makes sense with a news site FOR politics; this is video games
Video games is not politics, it's entertainment software. They wouldn't have any standing in court; it would be straight discrimination based upon political beliefs. Even if you're a politically leaning it'd be hard. Just because someone is republican doesn't mean they can't write from a democratic perspective.
Can Employers Discriminate Based on Political Beliefs or Affiliation?
Federal law does not protect employees from political discrimination at work. But some states do protect employees from a few types of political discrimination.
www.nolo.com
That's taking it to the bit of extremes. While I'll do that myself, politics and religion SHOULD be kept separate. Trying to use religion as analogy for your stance is....not a good stance. It's injecting more conjecture into the discussion than the base question.
I think that's part of the point she's trying to make; regardless of political affiliation, writing about video games is writing about entertainment media. There should be absolutely no reason to have politically leaning video game news outlets; it's video games
On both sides of the fence, these people claiming to be diverse and inclusive (Both Dem and Rep) are doing dumb bull shit like this, and making it to where moderates, want nothing to do with either one.
Plus, you severly limit your consumer base, as well as hiring base if this whole network of people is true; give it 50% dem and 50% rep and if you make a game directed towards either one, you're likely cutting your potentional by half.
Him being a part of his industry, he'd likely know. I mean, most people do hang out with people that work in the same type of industry as them. Things that these people find in common, they will discuss. Schreier likes talking politics; there's nothing wrong about it, just dragging it into work is potentionally a law suit for discrimination as well as something that most people wouldn't tolerate in an office environment.
It's not that they're not talking about "important issues," it's that they're trying to shoe horn a discussion on politics into an article about games in general. If fiscal policies and social security systems were the only thing at play in politics, political science degrees would be easy af to get
Yoshi
He does have a point; I wouldn't say it's juvenile tactic, but one that does display that you didn't take the time necessary to form a good responseYou could also get disqualified in an actual debate meet up if you fell back to those tactics more than say, twice, without it being an obvious hypocritical statement from the opponent's statements
KingT731
Member
When someone says "right-leaning" I always have to question in what way or ways. I'm an adult who understands that people can and do think & want different things. Most of it imatter of perspective and some is based in hate...we also know that very few people can eloquently explain their stances on those same things.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
For a start, that's not quite the question being asked, and second, of course it's a "logically sound" answer, because it's technically correct. It's just a bullshit weak answer designed to circumvent the question. Shit, I'll make it even easier for you, imagine if Narwitz asked "why aren't there more trans game journalists?" and someone's genuine response was "well what about you?". Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that that's a good answer to that question and that the person isn't just trying to come up with a clever response that doesn't address the issue? Come on. You're not that much of a robot.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Yes, discriminating according to political beliefs when making hiring decisions is not OK, but it is OK to write a political publication in the scope of video games.
I was not bringing up religion though,
DunDunDunpachi
did. I was merely answering that I do not think my claim would be wrong if applied to religion rather than politics, i.e. someone will probably not want want to write for a publication that opposes one's views diametrically.Some people are interested in political issues in video games, so since there is a market for such publications, of course there is a reason to have such publications. If you want to read non-political video game outlets, you can do that as well. But then you'd not be able to resort to Kotaku or Polygon for that, which, I think, is fair in itself.
You are arguing it is a bad business decision to write a political video game website. If it is a bad business decision (which I do not agree with, in principle), then there's no reason to complain about it either, because such websites will vanish on their own for not having a large enough audience.
If someone in a debate asks me more than twice "does X exist" where that person actually is an example for X, I wonder what kind of debate that person wants to have. I would probably not answer the for a third time "yes, you are an example of X", I would answer why the hell the person is so full of himself and constantly asks me to verify he exists.
You could also get disqualified in an actual debate meet up if you fell back to those tactics more than say, twice, without it being an obvious hypocritical statement from the opponent's statements
Ornlu
Banned
You aren't a victim. Have your hot take and move on, lol.
The only way you're catching a ban here is by being openly racist, threatening people, calling for violence, or for continually shitting up threads.
Scotty W
Banned
As a regular reader of Clown World, I agree with you, but only to an extent.
I started reading Kotaku somewhere around 2006, and in that time I watched it go from being nearly apolitical to making everything political, and being really aggressive and puritanical about it. I honestly do not think there are any major gaming websites who went from "normal, whatever your normal is" to far right. But many gaming publications did go far left.
A lot of the problem comes from the age of the members of these forums and the readers of these publications. We grew up reading Gameplayers, Gamepro and Gamefan and that kind of stuff, where it was all fun and games. But at that time, most of us had no interest in politics. But we grew up, and got interested in politics, and at the same time the Twitter revolution happened and suddenly mass media took a sharp turn to the left. You could probably make an analogy with Nazi Germany, where, once everyone got radios, everything very quickly went really far right.
I think Neogaf has reacted to this far left turn; but I disagree that it is as overt as you say it is. Some of the pushback is, I think, reasonable, but as in any sort of back and forth pendulum conversation, there are going to be some users that take it too far. There was a thread recently about anti-wokeness going mainstream, and I posted that we should not allow ourselves to become right mirror images of the extreme left, and I was disagreed with. So I agree with you... but only to an extent.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Genuine question, are you on the spectrum?
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
The only doctor that diagnosed me with that isPapa
I'm beginning to see why. I asked because I sincerely don't want to come across as mean if you are, but three people in my family (and extended family) are and they all respond to these kinds of questions/situations in a strikingly similar fashion.
Anyway, enough said on all of it.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
Right...
It's also okay for say, a sex toy review company to write political publications
Most people would be confused by that.
"This Dragon Dildo is a real shocker, BUT BOY HAVE YOU EVER BEEN FUCKED OVER BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR BEING A LESBIAN?!"
Yeah, kind of weird.
Ah, my apologies,I was not bringing up religion though,
DunDunDunpachi
shame on you too; stop throwing in stuff that most people are trying to keep separated to begin with, it just makes stuff harder to talk aboutOk, granted, I'll give ya that
Uh; there is something to complain about. It still exists, and is happening
I think you're misunderstanding the point; when you create a system where some of the largest companies in that industry can discriminate and force a type of voice across ALL MAJOR businesses, while claiming industry inclusivity and voicing the minority, you're doing the exact opposite
We're not discussing the validity of them exist, we're discussing the validity of their actions
Even other journalists would say their actions aren't great
Also, shout out for
Abriael_GN
for his discussion in the above thread/quote; explaining to us more business folks how they see us and their peers. He's definetely the type of guy I'd get a beer withRight...
You just kind of proved my point; you may have not done it more than once, but it opens the door to it being used more often and normalized
Why are you asking her to verify she exists?
Last edited:
Source: https://www.rt.com/news/481220-games-journalism-clique-industry/
More at link......
I was just about to mention Colin, the whole media is strongly left wing, and ironically they promote bubbles on both sides, by not letting diverse opnions they push libertarians and conservatives into their own spots such as Breitbart because they can't work where it is explicitly stated as neutral/diverse opinions, anywhere that had an overall centrism due to the mix of opinions is now left wing.
Game Journalism, Game Development, and gaming in general (communities and forums) are full of White Liberals. Not liberals of all backgrounds... White Liberals. And while they may claim minorities among them, the bulk of their minorities are White Liberal LBGTQ.
I can't help but wonder if it isn't subconscious fantasy roleplay that is at the center.
Remember when gaming and gamers all had a negative impression from non gamers? Back 10,15,20 years ago. All gamers were fat and lazy... "better get off your ass and do something with your life". Live in their moms basement. Basically all gamers a decade ago had the man babies label of today. Anyway that nerd culture was mostly white. Not like today where everyone is playing video games, from kids in 5th grade to professional athletes.
And what did these now Game Journalist and Game Developers play years ago. Mostly games that somehow involves you the player being a No One. A No One who is tasked with saving the Damsel in Distress.
Yeah just like that lol. It was they (Mario) saving all the minorities (Princess) from the bad guys. Now they are writers or developers who are saving those who aren't able to speak up.
Why is it that the people who are constantly talking about the need for representation of minorities in the medium have no minorities among their ranks except for Whites who have minority status because they are LGBTQ?
Why do these Whites have such a superiority complex? Makes me wonder...
Yes, this is something i've noticed close enough, almost all game developers are very left wing, in fact, the few exceptions are: Carmack and Palmer Luckey are libertarians, Doug Ten Napel is a conservative, RWS which seems to be from more centrist to libertarian. Unless you are a very important person in the industry, chances are that you are gonna have to gather with friends to form a studio.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked