ManaByte
Member
RAM will still always be faster than the fastest SSD.
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To put PS5 5.5GB/s SSD in prospective PS4 only had 5.5GB of RAM available for games
- Thread starter onQ123
- Start date
RAM will still always be faster than the fastest SSD.
someone needs to explain to you how a video game frame works.... because for some reason you think it’s the same as how a frame in a movie file works (which you’d also be wrong about, but eh....)
Kagey K
Banned
Soodanim
Member
You've hit the nail on the head. Someone does need to explain, because it's been 50+ posts of "You're wrong lol", but not a single "Here's why that's not true".
TLZ
Banned
Why not? If it's double the SX SSD speed, it's double its speed. It is big and we should talk about it. Just like the SX gpu is more powerful and we can talk about it. Both have positives that should be boasted.
So, you are saying having a GPU and SSD is basically the same in regards to the capabilities of a console? Lol
The Xbox ssd is fast enough, having an even faster ssd doesn’t result in any difference for Multiplatform games, except for a little less loading times.
However, having a stronger GPU results in a MUCH bigger advantage .
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Well, yeah talk about it, theres plenty of threads to do so, but to go out of ones way to make threads that specifically praise the benefits of the ssd in next gen without even mentioning the XsX is rather odd especially when we consider that both ssd solutions are huge step ups from last gen.
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What are you even talking about? what have I said that would make you think that I think this is like a movie frame?
Makoto-Yuki
Gold Member
and now PS5 only has 13.5GB assuming it also takes up 2.5GB for OS.
still pathetic.
CPU, RAM, AND GPU are the most important. fast storage speed is nice but not crucial to making games better. the extra ~3GB/s won't matter much ultimately outside first party titles if they even manage to make full use of it. multiplatform games will need to be based around the 2.4GB/s of the XSX so that extra speed will largely go to waste.
still pathetic.
talk about the SSD if you want but the more impressive thing is a faster GPU. finally using SSD is great but it's not gonna be much use in games compared to more GPU power.
CPU, RAM, AND GPU are the most important. fast storage speed is nice but not crucial to making games better. the extra ~3GB/s won't matter much ultimately outside first party titles if they even manage to make full use of it. multiplatform games will need to be based around the 2.4GB/s of the XSX so that extra speed will largely go to waste.
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I bet you're wrong & we will see the most benefits next generation come from the SSD than we will from a higher TFLOPs number.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Wow, you are almost there. You just need to make that next logical step. The one that tells you that nearly all the 5.5 GB of RAM are used for a single frame. Which means that on PS5 with 13 GB available to a game, you can only swap those 90 MB from frame to frame during gameplay. So 12.91 GB will be unchanged from frame to frame.
HeadsUp7Up
Member
I can't believe this thread is still going on and not locked. No one ever gave me a source that the PS5 has an SSD, this is clearly clickbait.
hyperbertha
Member
The fact that you understand SSDs can translate into more than loading times for atleast first party titles is impressive by itself given the attitude of some people here. But allow me to let you know that it doesn't have to be restricted to First party. Third party devs can and likely will optimize the PS5 version to use more streamed data compared to XSX. All devs perform extensive optimizations focused on each platform. So if indeed some third party games maintain the 2.5 GB limit across all versions, that would just be a sad case of the XSX holding back the game, which I don't think either of us want.
LostDonkey
Member
What a fucking special thread.
Mistershine.
Banned
Prospective
Prospective
I know what both words mean I just wasn't paying attention when I typed it
Mistershine.
Banned
Multiple times...
thelastword
Banned
The power of the cloud was never real though and never fulfilled......We're talking about tangible hardware and speeds vs "all the power and cell energy in the galaxy will combine and power the XBOX, it will unlimitless"......
And the RAM that this data is being streamed into is 448GB/s
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
You mean in PS5? I am not sure if I understand what is your point...
It's real they just mislead people about how it would be used.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
A) These threads are getting annoying
B) Most people who start them have no idea what they're talking about
C) Me when I read some posts in these threads
B) Most people who start them have no idea what they're talking about
C) Me when I read some posts in these threads
thelastword
Banned
Yet SSD speeds have never been as fast and they will contribute to IO improvements like we've never seen before.....An SSD has never been custom tailored for gaming before, not even the ones you were buying on PC all these years.....The one on the PS5 is purposed just for gaming and that's the difference....
The biggest disparity in these consoles is not TFLOPS as that is mitigated by custom silicon and smart design, the biggest difference in these consoles are the SSD's by a wide margin.....
Well I've never seen it real on consoles......I was told that not to worry "XBOX ONE is not underpowered", it can access the unlimitless power of the cloud......I have been waiting till 2013 to see that power that eclipses a 1080ti or 2080ti.....They still have this year to come up with something.....Crackdown 3 wasn't it sadly....
You posted the PS4 RAM speed as if I was talking about replacing the PS4 5.5GB of RAM with 5.5GB of SSD. the data is still being streamed into the RAM the difference is instead of 5.5GB being the limit for a large section of gameplay they can stream it in as you move around. this isn't something new but now instead of it taking so long to load up the data it's now happening in a second.
Think about a racing game , on PS4 you would try to load up as much of the track as possible into the RAM as the game load in the beginning so it would be there when you get to it. on PS5 you can load the track up in smaller slices & therefor using higher quality assets.
That's what I mean by them misleading people. it's real & useful for big data too big to be calculated locally in a small time but using this for real time gameplay when it has to be sent to the console through the internet isn't going to be a good result.
thelastword
Banned
And that's what I'm talking about and exactly what they promised, so I have not seen it from them, so unless I see it from them, it's not real...….I want to see the power of the cloud eclipse the highest end PC GPU hardware through it's unlimited Azure pull through a console.....When it happens, I will personally create a thread and congratulate Microsoft.....
?
Why would you compare the speed of the SSD to RAM?
The data is being loaded into the RAM like always the difference is that instead of it taking a long time to load the data into the RAM it only take 1 second so instead of loading the whole level into RAM you can load the data in as it's needed.
Like if you make a PS4 game where you're walking through a house you would have to load the whole house into the RAM at one time unless you want to have loading as you enter a new room but if you make a PS5 game you can use the RAM for just one room & walk through the house loading up new rooms as you get to that room. a forest can have higher quality trees because you can load a few trees into RAM as you get to the trees instead of loading a big part of the forest into RAM.
If you wonder why tech demos always look better than games using the same tech it's because of memory management they don't have to fit a large part of the game into the memory so more of the memory can go to the section that is being demoed. With a SSD they can use that same trick , more memory being used for what you see & less for what you will see in the next minute or so.
Endless Fluff
Banned
Real World performance will most likely never hit 5.5GB/s unless file structures change so much that a game install only consists of big files. If the SSD has to shove lots of small files into the ram, read speeds will go down to around 1GB/s and that is assuming some secret sauce is really there. Just look at Crystal DiskMark benches of some of the fastest SSDs out there... filling up the 16GB of RAM in 3-4 seconds is wishful thinking.
This is why I'm kinda curious about Microsoft's claim that their SSD will hit 2.4GB/s at all times (which is kinda unbelievable)...
This is why I'm kinda curious about Microsoft's claim that their SSD will hit 2.4GB/s at all times (which is kinda unbelievable)...
ZywyPL
Banned
I think MS meant sustained/guaranteed max bandwidth, a.k.a. no throttling from the SSD. But yeah, sequential speeds are one thing, but randoms is actually what's what, I won't be shocked if there won't be any real world difference between PS5 vs XBX vs PC SSDs.
Words from a dev
www.resetera.com
PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny OT
I can see why they did what they did. I mean if doing it gets them to be able to clock it as high as 2.23Ghz. that's something. More importantly, though, I think people are missing something about why they could also have used a smaller chip. If it can even be called that. There is SRAM in the...
www.resetera.com
njean777
Member
Called it, PC specs will easily match the PS5 SSD. IT isn't revolutionary nor will it ever be. It is just an SSD. Sony fanboys need to stop grasping at straws and just enjoy their console. The Ps5 will be awesome and so will the XSX. Whatever you choose to buy will be fine and you will get cool games.
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Called what? of course PC will get SSDs this fast how else would people add storage to PS5? Cerny talked about the faster SSDs coming out later this year that people will be able to use for their PS5.
CJY
Banned
Yep, what did you call exactly? And that SSD isn't even fast enough for the PS5.
Aceofspades
Banned
It seems like even Xbox team is disagreeing with you about SSD:
“While the Xbox Series X will deliver a massive increase in GPU performance and continue to redefine and advance the state of art in graphics with new capabilities such as hardware accelerated raytracing,” said Jason Ronald, Director of Product Management on Xbox Series X, “we don’t believe this generation will be defined by graphics or resolution alone.”
Also:
“The CPU is the brain of our new console and the GPU is the heart, but the Xbox Velocity Architecture is the soul,” said Andrew Goossen, Technical Fellow on Xbox Series X at Microsoft. “The Xbox Velocity Architecture is about so much more than fast last times. It’s one of the most innovative parts of our new console. It’s about revolutionizing how games can create vastly bigger, more compelling worlds.”
Notice even MS thinks that their slow ass SSD is more revolutionary next gen than either CPU or GPU upgrades
Also notice how their talk mirrored Cerny and extend SSD benefits to beyond loading times.
Great Hair
Banned
Despite the 0 seek time there is still I/O time. One of the new SSD's that can read 2Gb/second a large file sequentially will still only be able to read 100 million 4k files at a rate of about 60Mb/s because it has to start/stop 100 million times.
This was posted 4 years ago and still applies to current and future SSDs. Intel´s Optane have improved this by 300% when others top Samsung Pros drop to 100MB, Optane remains around 300MB/s ... but still far from the 5GB/s advertised (sequential reads).
As Cerny said :
PC: SSD has 4 or 8 "highways, channels" (unconfirmed), somewhat bad SEEK due the controller used, Intel is King here (on the PC)
PS5: 12 channels (this alone makes it 50% to 100% better) and SSD 22GB/s I/O seek
Also it´s kinda limited on how fast the BD4K UHD can stream, copy it to the SSD, which im pretty sure Sony wants to make sure they get again the faster drive (PS4 vs XBone sluggish installs from disc).
And i know you can have 4x M2s via a PCIex card and hit 20Gb/s easy ... but at what cost? (shitty seek time). Raid 0 with SSD is a dumb decision (for your OS partition).
This was posted 4 years ago and still applies to current and future SSDs. Intel´s Optane have improved this by 300% when others top Samsung Pros drop to 100MB, Optane remains around 300MB/s ... but still far from the 5GB/s advertised (sequential reads).
As Cerny said :
PC: SSD has 4 or 8 "highways, channels" (unconfirmed), somewhat bad SEEK due the controller used, Intel is King here (on the PC)
PS5: 12 channels (this alone makes it 50% to 100% better) and SSD 22GB/s I/O seek
Also it´s kinda limited on how fast the BD4K UHD can stream, copy it to the SSD, which im pretty sure Sony wants to make sure they get again the faster drive (PS4 vs XBone sluggish installs from disc).
And i know you can have 4x M2s via a PCIex card and hit 20Gb/s easy ... but at what cost? (shitty seek time). Raid 0 with SSD is a dumb decision (for your OS partition).
njean777
Member
Called that by the time the PS5 comes out there will already be Ssd's that match or beat the PS5 specs on PC. It isn't revolutionary like some Sony fanboys have been parading around here, and don't act like they haven't.
No. There won't be.
Currently PC has no controllers capable of anything close to PS5 performance.
And mainly that's because of backwards compatibility they need to maintain.
Maybe MSFT with their Direct Storage tech will change things here (I hope) but right now it's so far, it's laughable.
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martino
Member
And ? do you need ps5 ssd solution and only that solution to match what the console will do ?
seems it's only belief bias
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No probably 64GB or more RAM will do just fine.
martino
Member
base on what ? still only relying on belief bias over specs ?
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jonnyp
Member
Oh ffs..... Called what exactly? Of course PCs will get as fast and way faster drives in time. Whoever said PC wouldn't? Cerny himself said it would probably be towards the end of this year.
What is your point? You are certainly not the Nostradamus you think you are.
Based on projected PS5 SSD usage.
Unless they invested in it just for fun.
You need to understand, a game built around 5.5GB/sec raw and 9+GB/sec setup speed will never ever work with PC SSD of smaller bandwidth.
Lag between what your SSD can push into memory and what is needed will only grow.
So unless a game heavily underused the PS5 SSD (which will probably be the case for any multiplatform) you will need a lot of RAM to keep all the data there instead of getting it from PC SSD.
Or the game will stall each couple of seconds.
SMH it is revolutionary because it will be the 1st consumer product with these speeds & a I/O to take advantage of it. Your PC wouldn't have any software to take advantage of that speed until devs start making PS5 /Xbox SX games that do more than use it for loading.
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