Radical_3d
Member
That’s a very good argument, sir.
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Bonsaibäumchen
Member
More like the 'fist of Sony!' What we saw yesterday was just the ONE inch punch!
If Sony makes a full blowout in June (before MS first party showcase) with Console Reveal,Games and more it'll be more like this
Thirty7ven
Banned
Ok so Alex from DF is already on the other place saying the faster SSD on the PS5 doesn't offer any advancement. It's different just because.
I'm starting to wonder what's up with this. I would like for those who believe that it offers no benefit, like he does, to explain to me why is then that faster SSDs are being brought to the market and why Sony decided to remove so many bottlenecks and end up with a SSD that was at least 5Gb/s which in the end ended up being 5.5.
Like I would really love for someone who shares the same opinion to explain to me why it doesn't matter, why it offers no advancements and why not go with a 1Gb/S SSD then. Why is it that apparently, the XSX at 2.4 GB/S is the magic number?
I'm starting to wonder what's up with this. I would like for those who believe that it offers no benefit, like he does, to explain to me why is then that faster SSDs are being brought to the market and why Sony decided to remove so many bottlenecks and end up with a SSD that was at least 5Gb/s which in the end ended up being 5.5.
Like I would really love for someone who shares the same opinion to explain to me why it doesn't matter, why it offers no advancements and why not go with a 1Gb/S SSD then. Why is it that apparently, the XSX at 2.4 GB/S is the magic number?
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ethomaz
Banned
Where he said that?
He wrote that.
"Memory management is a hot topic too: a big part of the UE5 story is how original, full fidelity assets can be used unaltered, unoptimised, in-game - so how is this processed? This, in turn, raises further questions about the storage streaming bandwidth required, an area where PlayStation 5 excels. So, to what extent is the Lumen in the Land of Nanite tech demo leveraging that immense 5.5GB/s of uncompressed memory bandwidth? Hopefully we'll learn more soon."
Edit - Ohhhh you mean ERA lol
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Getting most of DF especially that guy to say positive things about Sony and mean it wont happen.
Again there are reasons why they hop on a plane and get to do these deep dive reveals from MS.
Some of those guys are barely one step up from sites like Windows Central Gaming.
FeiRR
Banned
This is where the ignore function fails, because you still see quotes in comments. Just to clarify, I didn't write anything like that, you can check my post history. I'm not wasting my time on that individual, though. His logic is primary school level of right.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
Cerny and Sweeney know more about building game engines and game development tools than any technology journalist or even game developer that just inserts their own assets and logic into a game engine they're licensing. That is not in dispute.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Man, I've been paying close attention to you at all time, you are a guru! Give me more of that AMD infinity fabric and potential PS5 Pro stacked APU please
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Ascend
Member
They aren't actually drawing a billion polygons per frame.... Even though the assets are billions of polygons. Trying to render them would definitely choke everything. The whole point is that the engine only renders to the required resolution, rather than wasting resources on rendering things you can't see. So ultimately, the amount of polygons drawn will roughly equate the total amount of pixels on screen, independent of how many polygons each asset is.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Not raw speeds, they said uncompressed 8K models used mostly for Hollywood movies, and they didn't touch any of that or lower the polygon count. Meaning that was more like a playable Hollywood movie! If they compress them then expect native 4K instead, not to mention that Rebirth trailer actually used toned down 4K assets (-25%) with lesser polygons to achieve near 4K@24fps at 2.39:1 aspect ratio on 1080Ti: (watch it on a 4K tv)
So that trailer could be easily playable on PS5 at native 16:9 4K@30-60fps.
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Ascend
Member
Actually, there are at least two things in dispute.
Sweeney is the one representing the new engine. Cerny is representing the hardware. If I make a car and you win a race with it, it would be stupid to say that both of us know more about driving than anyone else. You are the one that won the race, not me. You know about racing, I know about making cars. Those are two completely different things.
Which brings me to the second point. Sweeney nor Cerny don't do anything by themselves. They lead teams that do all the work. The input from their teams is a lot more valuable than you give them credit for. These guys are the faces.
B_Boss
Member
he didn’t say that it will be not possible on other platforms. Don’t be naive, it is obvious that there is some sort of deal between epic and Sony to promote this. Same with AMD saying that xbsex will be “pinnacle of innovation” when it comes out. Remember, what ps5 can do, “the world’s most powerful console” can do better.
Console wars aside, i still doubt that we can can this level of fidelity at 4K 60fps next gen, which is a shame. Cannot wait for ps6 and next Xbox (whatever horrible name ms comes up with next).
The quote was:
(source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/)
Well, I wonder if, taking context and word usage into consideration, “a” is certainly not as strong a term as “the”. The Series X will be a beacon of tech. innovation absolutely and I wonder if the same could be said about the PS5 and even some PC parts that have yet to launch
.I don’t believe it is a stretch to assume (at this point anyway) that each console will outperform the other in certain key areas? (maybe I’m in error here). Remember, the One X is the “worlds most powerful console” as I type this and yet....well.....it isn’t so cut and dry
. I guess my point there is that “can do better” may not be necessarily true.The flying part of the demo was a cutscene, hmm.
Alright and if so, did you also read why? I’d imagine that It could have easily been playable but for the reasons stated, they did not implement the feature. I’m not sure what your point is but I’m genuinely interested
. Also....I swear your name is familiar....
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Killer Sakoman
Member
There was some leak claiming that Horizon 2 will show billions of polygons on screen and many of us called it bullshit. It turned out that the 100s of billions of polygons are true.
Metroiddarks
Member
Because Epic games is the one that charges less per game sell, you talk about is speculation if Epic pushed Sony to do it but just before you also
speculate what kind of coherence is that one?
If the PS5 is the not god tier please show us one SSD which you can buy with better specs, Xbox wants its games go to PC they just cannot put something so exotic as that SSDAscend said:
which will raise console costs and in the same will be harder to port its games to PC and Xbox one.
Ascend said:
Ascend said:
But is also clear that engine scale with SSD in some way, this engine will be in almost all device but if you think an SSD with almost the half of speed and the same memory will load the same
quantity of geometry then go and tell them to tested in XSX.
I know you will tell me something like Tim Sweeney is bias for huge quantity of money he received from Sony .... yes I am sure he needs
more money and suddenly MIcrosoft is not anymore the trillion company.
Epic change with Unreal Engine V what is the definition for a render yeah if you don't think so well just ignore all the devs and artists of the industry and say the TF still much more important
and the SSD bandwidth only works for improve loading screens. Man are just toys, which matter is the games not the boxes if you cannot believe is okay because to the reality doesn't care
if you believe or not that Cerny maybe knows more than we thought.
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Ascend
Member
To show billions of polygons you would need billions of pixels.There was some leak claiming that Horizon 2 will show billions of polygons on screen and many of us called it bullshit. It turned out that the 100s of billions of polygons are true.
PaintTinJr
Member
Edit: Good point. I was looking at a factor of 1000 out. It would seem it was more like 1 million per frame. And yet I was sure they said that in the video, hence original comment. Maybe with all the millions and billions mentioned heard it wrong and then didn't clock the factor error.
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The flying part of the demo was a cutscene, hmm.
This would sound like an NDA breach to me.
Do we have verified proof this person is who he says he is?
"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.
Ascend
Member
I think you're off by a factor of 1000.
pasterpl
Member
Not sure if this was already posted
www.theverge.com
Sony says “wait for PS5 sales” before comparing it to Microsoft’s Xbox marketing
Sony is confident the PS5 will outsell the Xbox Series X.
www.theverge.com
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Yeah if you crash the PS5 devkit you could potentially get into screens, see UIs, whatever that Sony hasn't detailed.This would sound like an NDA breach to me.
Do we have verified proof this person is who he says he is?
"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.
That's what they meant; whether true or not who knows.
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Killer Sakoman
Member
I think ps5 has faster rasterization and faster gpu cache as well. Not sure about this info.
I believe XSX gpu will need to work harder to offset the difference. At the end, Both consoles will perform aroumd 5% from each other which is what we already heard from Jason.
pasterpl
Member
The quote was:
(source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/)
Well, I wonder if, taking context and word usage into consideration, “a” is certainly not as strong a term as “the”. The Series X will be a beacon of tech. innovation absolutely and I wonder if the same could be said about the PS5 and even some PC parts that have yet to launch
I don’t believe it is a stretch to assume (at this point anyway) that each console will outperform the other in certain key areas? (maybe I’m in error here). Remember, the One X is the “worlds most powerful console” as I type this and yet....well.....it isn’t so cut and dry
that’s very interesting way of looking at this, and probably the right one, these PR releases are created very carefully and every single word matters
I guess time will tell
Gediminas
Banned
I've already forgotten about the Unreal 5 demo. Too far away into the future...Time for some tangible in-depth GoT...28 minutes and counting down
your brains will leak out from your eyeballs
you are not ready for this, we are not ready for this ! 
LucidFlux
Member
Regardless of the validity of this person, as someone who works at a large tech company you may be surprised at the different kinds of people that manage to get hired. You sometimes scratch your head asking how they got themselves there. Someone can be brilliant at their specific role and still not be an effective communicator for instance.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
I know some of this has been covered but just to mention loading times on the xbox.
We can debate specs and people can say bcpack does this and sfs does that (which IMO won't anywhere near make up for the specific hardware the ps5 has) but we have demos put out by Microsoft which show over 11 seconds to load a game of last gen quality.
We also have the quick resume games video where it takes about 6 seconds to switch.
Now we must remember these presentations won't have been thrown together by Microsoft they will have been carefully chosen to present the xbox in the best light.
Even the game switching demos, two of the games aren't big games and even the hellblade game is facing the wall when it loads up and is in an environment that doesn't look very taxing.
I'd imagine that these locations etc were carefully chosen to present the best times possible and I think that tells us how far behind the xbox could be in this area compared to the ps5.
Yes its spiderman demo isn't officially released and did it have code changes? We don't know, but we do know 2 very important slides that makes the ssd speed alone not the thing that changes the game.
Without that specific io investment the 100 times SSD will not transfer to 100 times faster.
The xbox seems more in line with the other slide, the ratio that is.
People say the ps5 is twice as fast where it's likely that that twice as fast would be if the xbox had the same io hardware. It doesn't and therefore it's far more likely the ps5 is multiples faster in 5his area.
I think sony is really going to push home its advantage this gen more and more, it might not have some of the bigger numbers but outside of pixel counting and zoomed DF analysis it has the easier advantages to show off. Sub second load times vs maybe 5-10. Better asset quality potentially and no lod or pop in is very easy to see, if pop in is visible, as it is on the load time video for eg.
Finally a question.... didn't the epic devs say that the assets on that demo didnt fit into ram and therefore the ps5 streaming capability is essential for it to run like it did.... so does that mean the 16gb of ram was full and if so would this present a problem for then xbox? As it's been said about the split ram and it may only be an issue if the games are over 10gb. Well if ram was full would this slow down the effective bandwidth of the xbox and mean that demo would bring out a bottleneck?
We can debate specs and people can say bcpack does this and sfs does that (which IMO won't anywhere near make up for the specific hardware the ps5 has) but we have demos put out by Microsoft which show over 11 seconds to load a game of last gen quality.
We also have the quick resume games video where it takes about 6 seconds to switch.
Now we must remember these presentations won't have been thrown together by Microsoft they will have been carefully chosen to present the xbox in the best light.
Even the game switching demos, two of the games aren't big games and even the hellblade game is facing the wall when it loads up and is in an environment that doesn't look very taxing.
I'd imagine that these locations etc were carefully chosen to present the best times possible and I think that tells us how far behind the xbox could be in this area compared to the ps5.
Yes its spiderman demo isn't officially released and did it have code changes? We don't know, but we do know 2 very important slides that makes the ssd speed alone not the thing that changes the game.
Without that specific io investment the 100 times SSD will not transfer to 100 times faster.
The xbox seems more in line with the other slide, the ratio that is.
People say the ps5 is twice as fast where it's likely that that twice as fast would be if the xbox had the same io hardware. It doesn't and therefore it's far more likely the ps5 is multiples faster in 5his area.
I think sony is really going to push home its advantage this gen more and more, it might not have some of the bigger numbers but outside of pixel counting and zoomed DF analysis it has the easier advantages to show off. Sub second load times vs maybe 5-10. Better asset quality potentially and no lod or pop in is very easy to see, if pop in is visible, as it is on the load time video for eg.
Finally a question.... didn't the epic devs say that the assets on that demo didnt fit into ram and therefore the ps5 streaming capability is essential for it to run like it did.... so does that mean the 16gb of ram was full and if so would this present a problem for then xbox? As it's been said about the split ram and it may only be an issue if the games are over 10gb. Well if ram was full would this slow down the effective bandwidth of the xbox and mean that demo would bring out a bottleneck?
PaintTinJr
Member
Yeah, I clocked the mistake after posting :that reply , managed to miss it on the original post and reply to yours. I have edited, but sadly too slow
.amstradcpc
Member
Do you know who Sweeney is?. And Carmack?.
I know this. How it was phrased, sounded... off. Sounds like someone not as technically adept would have wrote, let alone someone who claims to be the inventor of Nanite technology. Maybe he was being vague on purpose, but he did drop some stuff where yesterday they were evasive on certain questions.
Just for the information or disinformation campaign that we like to keep under wraps more in the OTs.
This is true as well.
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ZeroFool
Member
The water in the Epic demo felt like - hurry up and run through this before people notice it is from Skyrim. That was one area where maybe I just noticed it out of the corner of my eye. So I went and had a look at the UE4 tech demo "Boy with a Kite" and that demo still holds up really well. Water looks great, so no doubts that UE5 will be better. Just a nitpick from the footage yesterday.
I don't recall open world foliage yet having that much diversity and natural movements. Getting close, so IMO that is one area where nextgen will further improve over current. Not going to count the blades of grass, but I love how vibrant that old demo still feels.
I don't recall open world foliage yet having that much diversity and natural movements. Getting close, so IMO that is one area where nextgen will further improve over current. Not going to count the blades of grass, but I love how vibrant that old demo still feels.
Ascend
Member
Sweeney developed Unreal Engine. Carmack is a programmer that worked on Doom, among other things. Both are pioneers for developing/creating games and engines alike.
Why do you ask?
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ZeroFool
Member
I hate to double post as NEO, but one is a god the other is an immortal.
Maybe if I wait a few seconds it won't be a double post.
Maybe if I wait a few seconds it won't be a double post.
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FranXico
Member
Nobody said it won't be possible on superior upcoming PCs. What is your point?The unreal 5.0-PS5 tech demo is totally not possible on:
-PC AMD RDNA 2 and upcoming RDNA 3
-NVIDIA Ampere and Hopper
-Intel Xe GPU line
-PCIE 5.0 SSD Drives
Nope not at all. Nope nope nope.
ANIMAL1975
Member
And guess what! Just leaked UE5 tech demo on XSX real time and with full RT reflections!
pasterpl
Member
ANIMAL1975
Member
True. Native 4k confirmed by Alex, DF is already on it!probably 4K
BattleScar
Member
Bold of you to assume that Intel's Xe will be relevant outside of HPC and integrated graphics for many years.The unreal 5.0-PS5 tech demo is totally not possible on:
-PC AMD RDNA 2 and upcoming RDNA 3
-NVIDIA Ampere and Hopper
-Intel Xe GPU line
-PCIE 5.0 SSD Drives
Nope not at all. Nope nope nope.
Bladed Thesis
Member
For no reason. But the persecution complex when Sony isn't hitting on all cylinders is off the charts. You should go count the threads of "can't we have serious discussion without flaming!?!?!"
ZeroFool
Member
I am equal opportunity, I just like to hate because I am grumpy. But I love everyone!
Edit: In the 90s I was mad at Sony when my LD and MD kept breaking and the repair costs were stupid. Lol
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Doncabesa
Member
It's all from here in the comment section. https://www.shacknews.com/article/1...ed-by-epic-games-lumen-nanite-tools-showcasedThis would sound like an NDA breach to me.
Do we have verified proof this person is who he says he is?
"secret info or something" … hmmm. Funny phrase for a dev to say. I am definitely open for confirmation.
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user1337
Member
4k 120hz yes, but VRR doesnt need 2.1 as such. All of the samsung qled tv's (50inch and above) have it as standard on HDMI 2.0.
Radical_3d
Member
Gamernyc78
Banned
The quote was:
(source: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/)
Well, I wonder if, taking context and word usage into consideration, “a” is certainly not as strong a term as “the”. The Series X will be a beacon of tech. innovation absolutely and I wonder if the same could be said about the PS5 and even some PC parts that have yet to launch
I don’t believe it is a stretch to assume (at this point anyway) that each console will outperform the other in certain key areas? (maybe I’m in error here). Remember, the One X is the “worlds most powerful console” as I type this and yet....well.....it isn’t so cut and dry
Alright and if so, did you also read why? I’d imagine that It could have easily been playable but for the reasons stated, they did not implement the feature. I’m not sure what your point is but I’m genuinely interested
Taken from an Xbox site? As proof of what? Lol it has a stronger gpu marginally stronger and psv has a way more advanced ssd with more speed. Obviously both will advance in some things. I don't take PR fluff too seriously in either camp unless it comes from a neutral party. Pr is there to fluff and hype and often times falls short.
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Kazekage1981
Member
SSD sauce. Delicious.
If you're here just to derail and troll around vidya persecution complexes, feel free to let us know now.
Ascend
Member
It is a part of the HDMI 2.1 specification. Being HDMI 2.1 compliant means you have to support VRR. Read more here;
HDMI for Gaming - Superior Gameplay Experience
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) reduces or eliminates lag, judder and frame tearing for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, HDMI 2.1b
IkarugaDE
Member
Whenever I read your messages I have a very powerful and deep voice in my head.
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