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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:
In a nutshell the SSD is the important thing.

I have previously said that art direction is actually more important than raw graphical power.
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83CHZgi.png


Then the real promising area is streaming games, like with Stadia.
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0maIM1E.png
 
Bonsaibäumchen

Bonsaibäumchen

Member
IntentionalPun said:
Yes when he talks about scalability he doesn't specifically say "this demo."

But you really think Epic chose a demo for their engine they boasted is highly scalable that literally would only ever work on PS5?

His comment about "at any scale" is just nonsense hype at face value. Why wouldn't you be able to do that demo at a lower scale on different hardware exactly?
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Please stop spreading bullshit. I didn't say or intend to say that.

I was just saying that game will not run on phones. It might run the same,better or worse on pc/xsx/mac though.

Tough to say without full knowledge about the full next-gen console specs and features.
 
IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Bonsaibäumchen said:
Please stop spreading bullshit. I didn't say or intend to say that.

I was just saying that game will not run on phones. It might run the same,better or worse on pc/xsx/mac though.

Tough to say without full knowledge about the full next-gen console specs and features.
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I never said YOU Said that... calm the fuck down. Do you know what a question mark is?

Sweeney implied it; and it was a comment I had quoted... and then you responded to that comment.

But why wouldn't that demo scale to phones either? That makes no sense.., Sweeney specifically said you could make a game designed for high end consoles that would scale down to a phone.
 
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Metroiddarks

Metroiddarks

Member
rntongo said:
I said I'm sure the PS5 has a similar implementation for SF, its the SFS and all the extra hardware that seems unlikely ! Considering the use of Partially Resident Textures in the PS4 and Xbox One, it would make sense that they have a newer method. My whole argument was that the SFS hardware, which is comprised of other yet to be announced components(Besides SF) gives the XSX a significant advantage in terms of texture streaming. Unless the PS5 has an equivalent system. Even PC GPUs with Sampler Feedback won't have the same level of performance.

Sampler Feedback is one part of SFS


Sampler Feedback providing more efficient streaming of virtual memory pages, which the PS4 and Xbox One could do


If the PS5 GPU has equivalent hardware like SFS then indeed there will be PS5 games that cannot be made on the XSX without significant trickery.
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Every single generation of consoles has this kind of things, some feature which the people take and they exaggerate it to make their favorite piece of plastic look like so
some kind of supercomputer, sorry but until we don't know some devs from a medium or big studio praising SFS so this could means one of two things not just a indie
which use the console war as marketing:

1) Is good feature which help the devs but is not magic
2)The other system already has a similar solution which perform very similar so is not worth it to mention.

We don't have a single of idea of how well this perform compare to actual solution so your example of 4:1 sorry but that is a dream, stop to give some random
number of performance to a feature which you don't even have an idea how well this perform because you maybe you say than you think the other console could
has a similar solution but you not even bother to investigate it a little a found the Partially Resident Textures but that didn't stop you to use the extreme example of 4:1
in memory which was say by Xbox engineer which for casualty forget than now is not like a good implementation of some engine can save memory of textures.

My point is SFS looks great but at least you have access to both dev kits and want to lose your job stop with this when you don't even understand how this reflect in the real world, probably
in the future the game will use it probably not because is not so efficient or the other has an evolution of old feature which doesn't sounds strange to happens when has been
pass 7 years since its release. Also please don't mention but XSX didn't mention all its specs any person can say the same of PS5 but since try to guess the future without any
bases only guide for which brand like you is worthless just forget it to use it as valid argument.

Both machines are good and extremely close in many things stop to thinking in some moment some feature will multiply for more than 2 of part of the efficient this is not realistic.
 
xacto

xacto

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Haha! Real life is overrated, it reached diminishing returns now :messenger_tears_of_joy: Well, this is how close I've been to that gigantic cave room, you need some good rope and professional skills and set up to go down, or fall down and die and be welcomed by "The Jinn Council".:messenger_smiling_horns:

148928.jpg
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Well, technically speaking "falling down" is an "accelerated descent" - you just fail the "landing" 😂

But heck, it looks amazing!
 
C

Corndog

Banned
BadBreathOfTheWild said:
Just to add, Sweeny describing Sony putting their flash memory “close” to working memory, or to the CPU or GPU or whatever is referencing latency, not bandwidth.
“Distance” in this metric is how many ticks of a CPU/GPU it takes before it has what it asked for in its cache.

It’s not PS5’s 5.5GB/s that puts its flash storage “close” (although it plays a part) it’s the elimination of bottlenecks. It’s the DMAC eliminating check-in (initially copying to RAM, then copying from and back to RAM again), it’s a coprocessor mapping and remapping the memory for what the SSD is delivering, it’s a coherency engine keeping RAM and GPU caches “coherent” and in sync without needing to stall the GPU for a cycle to completely flush the cache as new data streams into RAM, it’s traditional IO tasks like file lookup being replaced by a hardware accelerator and new access API.
It’s asking for an asset and having it ready to work on during the same frame without needing to fall back or rely on prediction.

It’s all well and good having a lot of GPU compute, but if they have to stop what they’re doing for a clock cycle every time new data streams into RAM and potentially invalidates their working cache that would need to be rebuilt, then they’re idling.
Being able to selectively invalidate a GPU’s cache means it is pretty much always working during heavy streaming moments.

This is part of what Sweeny means by flash being “close”. Distance in this context means latency and time costs, not just simply comparing sequential read speed between NAND and APU.

5.5-9-22GB/s from NAND to APU is comparatively useless on traditional architecture whereby that 5.5-9-22GB/s potential would be constantly stopping and starting and waiting while it’s handled without hardware acceleration and removal of bottlenecks, or if it kept causing the GPU to essentially miss clock cycles of work while being updated, effectively downclocking it in real terms.

PS5 being described as having god-tier IO is more than just a NAND and flash controllers peak sequential read speed. That’s just the start of the chain. The thickest part of the pipeline. Comparing raw sequential read isn’t even half the story in how PS5 IO differs from PC, or even XSX.
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Has either company released ssd latency specs? I have not seen any. Point me to them if I am wrong. If they are not available then I am not sure where you are going here except speculating. Is that correct?
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
?What does that mean? Ofcourse it helps . Tim sweeny just explained 8k textures were made possible on ps5 due to the io complex and how it skipped memory due to how fast it is . Other wise it wouldn't be possible to occupy that much of memory with 8k texutes without screwing up what gpu and cpu want from ram.
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I would still say that CPU/GPU and RAM are working hard with those assets, the point is that the ultra SSD only makes the system more focused, so you only waste power as minimal as possible by getting rid of assets/elements outside your vision. That works automatically, without any interference from the devs as Cerny said, and that's the most critical part of this sorcery. That's why it's insanely easy to develop for PS5.
 
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DrKeo

DrKeo

Member
Radical_3d said:
I expect Halo to be bonkers. Halo 3 2006 trailer bonkers. That and a next gen Forza Horizon with realtime wacky phisics and XBox will be set for a fantastic first year.

In the US.
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I don't think MS can have a fantastic year at any territory other than the UK and the US. Regarding Forza, Horizon is probably 2021 and this year is Forza 8, so expect boring surgical looking car sim, not cars tearing through Japan in open-world mayhem. Forza 8 is probably MS's big RT demo.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
TLZ said:
Also, I don't know if any of you know this yet, but this in the video below is another great thing happening imo:

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I just wanna say: Thank you, Epic Games. If I will ever start a game on my PC it'll be from the Epic Games store (if the wanted game is available there). They've been so generous. Now indie devs must be jumping around out of joy.
 
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Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
amstradcpc said:
Really you could sense the different sound sources. Was great!. Imagine it plus the HTRF algorithm to place the sounds where they belong in your 3d own space!.
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Indeed, man. That's why I'm eagerly waiting for a new PS headset or Sony's new premium 1000XM4 noise-canceling king.

BGs said:
Undoubtedly not, XSX will not look like Zelda. It is impossible that nothing can overcome Zelda. Never. NEVER.

Speaking seriously. What is really important is that from now on, thanks to the fact that the graphic quality has reached very high levels, less time will be devoted to asset development and more time to developing good stories.

The user wins and the worker also.
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This is the most important thing for "serial-gamers" like me, I'll waste all my money more often than eagerly waiting for a new great game to come every few months!

Radical_3d said:
Ocarina of Time is one of the reasons why I left Nintendo systems behind me. What a hot pile of trash.
I was discussing this with a dev and we both agree that this will be a tragedy in terms of jobs lost. The enterprise will win, not the employee.
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You can look at it like that from one way, but do you know what's the other way? You can be FREED to start your own company with your own vision, indie or slightly bigger, and still manage to produce insane games that might rival big budget games thanks to the ease of work on UE5/PS5 and the royalty-free for EG up to $1 million!
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
SlimySnake said:
Damn, i shot past 4,000 likes yesterday. crazy. thanks everyone! though i am pretty sure half of them were from Doncabesa and the xbox era discord crew posting LOL reactions to all my posts criticizing Microsoft to try and trigger me. Nice try but i will take those free reactions, thank you.

On a serious note, half of the shit i say here would be bannable on era. I like that you can freely joke around here. This is just a video game forum, and as meaningless as reactions can be, it's good to see people enjoy each others posts and have a sense of humor about video games.
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I post lol reactions if I find the subject funny but not laughing at the poster.

Posts I dont like I ignore.

Am I doing it wrong ?
 
Radical_3d

Radical_3d

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
You can look at it like that from one way, but do you know what's the other way? You can be FREED to start your own company with your own vision, indie or slightly bigger, and still manage to produce insane games that might rival big budget games thanks to the ease of work on UE5/PS5 and the royalty-free for EG up to $1 million
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I can not wait to see that ship sink.
 
FeiRR

FeiRR

Banned
Corndog said:
Has either company released ssd latency specs? I have not seen any. Point me to them if I am wrong. If they are not available then I am not sure where you are going here except speculating. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
I'd take a word from an experienced developer studio which created the most ubiquitous multiplatform engine ever and runs the most popular game service in the world.

But of course you don't have to believe them.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
HeisenbergFX4 said:
Have a 65" C9 myself but also want a high end monitor to pair with my gaming PC and next gen.
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So....something like the PS5 or new Xbox that use HDMI 2.1....they WILL still output and work with receivers and/or TV's that use previous HDMI implementations, right? I can't imagine putting out new hardware that REQUIRES people to upgrade all their cables, receivers and TV's....but you never know...
 
Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
Sinthor said:
So....something like the PS5 or new Xbox that use HDMI 2.1....they WILL still output and work with receivers and/or TV's that use previous HDMI implementations, right? I can't imagine putting out new hardware that REQUIRES people to upgrade all their cables, receivers and TV's....but you never know...
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Yes they will still work you just won't get any of the 2.1 benefits like ALM and VRR
 
HeisenbergFX4

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Sinthor said:
So....something like the PS5 or new Xbox that use HDMI 2.1....they WILL still output and work with receivers and/or TV's that use previous HDMI implementations, right? I can't imagine putting out new hardware that REQUIRES people to upgrade all their cables, receivers and TV's....but you never know...
Click to expand...

They will still work fine with older HDMI.

You will just need HDMI 2.1 for 4k 120hz and the other things like VRR
 
FeiRR

FeiRR

Banned
Radical_3d said:
I can not wait to see that ship sink.
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Unreal has been free for a while. The difference now is they upped the threshold after which you pay 5% royalties from $3k to $1m, which is a huge difference. I know lots of people who develop all kind of projects with UE, from artists, through performers (including VR) to students of game development. It's a smart strategy.
 
Radical_3d

Radical_3d

Member
FeiRR said:
Unreal has been free for a while. The difference now is they upped the threshold after which you pay 5% royalties from $3k to $1m, which is a huge difference. I know lots of people who develop all kind of projects with UE, from artists, through performers (including VR) to students of game development. It's a smart strategy.
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Since Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem said “you” I was assuming he was talking about me funding an indie studio. I’m pretty sure everyone else would do it all right.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
BadBreathOfTheWild said:
That same close partnership likely resulted in Epic pushing Sony to deliver the kind of next-next-gen IO needed to leverage Nanite to the extent we saw it. To imply Epic chose to demo this particular sequence on PS5 because they're merely friends is naive.

Epic need Unreal engine to be selected for development on all platforms. Even older mobiles. To favour one vendor for no reason other than some kind of weird friendship or politics would be to shoot themselves in the foot.

Sweeny was clear that what we saw yesterday was only possible due to Sony's insane IO, of which Sweeny doubtless had input as Cerny was doing his rounds in the lead up to PS5 architecture. A standard NVMe SSD wasn't enough for Sony's vision. Neither was a high end one. Neither is one that even exists yet. Neither was the NVMe architecture with two levels of priority. Neither was an 8 or even 10 channel NAND interface which the most expensive NVMes tend to have. Neither was just putting in this NVMe without spending considerable cost and effort on various bits of hardware IO accelerators and an entirely new storage API paradigm.

If Sony is slightly down on GPU (down on outright compute, up on other areas of GPU like rasterisation, slightly down all weighed in), they're another generation ahead on getting data from flash chip to live and working GPU cache as quickly as possible, and that's down to far more than just the raw sequential read speed over 4 lanes of PCIe4.0.

The Unreal 5 technology demo we saw was only running at ~1440P@30Hz. It wasn't a demonstration of pixel pushing and high resolutions. It was a demonstration of IO, and it looked next generation.
Click to expand...
One aspect that maybe didn't register with all the SSD talk yesterday is, that if they are filling in new data every frame, and drawing 1billion front facing polygons per frame, that will change by the smallest delta in camera angle, then the caches on the GPU are going to change on a frame by frame basis, too, and even though there will be large redundancy in L3 assets (from frame to frame), without cache scrubbers how would another system handle that rate of change?
 
SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
geordiemp said:
I post lol reactions if I find the subject funny but not laughing at the poster.

Posts I dont like I ignore.

Am I doing it wrong ?
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yes, but then again you are normal.

i have seen donbesca do it to james sawyer ford and other posters. its just his thing i guess. i thought about putting him on ignore, but then i wouldnt know if my posts triggered him or not.
 
G

gamechanger87

Member
So did everyone miss this comment from Epic:

As for Microsoft’s Xbox Series X, Sweeney isn’t saying the new Xbox won’t be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds. But he says Epic’s strong relationship with Sony means the company is working more closely with the PlayStation creator than it does with Microsoft on this specific area.
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I think the expectations on how much of a difference the SSD will make on next gen consoles being able to do this is being a bit overblown. Sony has an agreement with Epic which means that Epic has to tout the PS5.
 
Ptarmiganx2

Ptarmiganx2

Member
Sweeney in response to the PS5s throughput “makes it possible to stream it in dynamically as the player is moving through the world”.

Let’s face it both systems fit the manufacture’s needs. Sony makes graphically intense story driven games. Sweeney mentions using movie quality assets on the PS5. The SSD and I/O throughput is what Sony needs to create even more artistic worlds. Microsoft is known for their shooters and racing games. Their system will hit a bit higher resolution and framerate on those types of games. I thought we would have to wait for HZD2 to see what Sony was going for, but I think Epic clearly demonstrated it. Which is a better solution? I think Sony did a better job moving the industry forward. Microsoft may win the “numbers game" on analysis software with framerate and resolution, but Sony will trump them by a fair margin in graphical presentation. Microsoft has a very good storage solution, but it’s obvious their approach was to make it close to the best available in the space. Sony worked with developers to change the space altogether. The gap between I/O throughput is much greater than the gap between the GPUs.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
gamechanger87 said:
So did everyone miss this comment from Epic:



I think the expectations on how much of a difference the SSD will make on next gen consoles being able to do this is being a bit overblown. Sony has an agreement with Epic which means that Epic has to tout the PS5.
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Depending who you ask, their agenda and paradigm view tht belief changes. We are all mostly guessers but what we do know is we have several devs and experts also touting psv ssd superior capabilities who aren't under contract with Sony or being paid by them and that counts alot to me.
 
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SlimySnake

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
gamechanger87 said:
So did everyone miss this comment from Epic:



I think the expectations on how much of a difference the SSD will make on next gen consoles being able to do this is being a bit overblown. Sony has an agreement with Epic which means that Epic has to tout the PS5.
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this is great news because i feared third party studios would simply ignore the ssd and i/o improvements on the ps5. but if its heavily ingrained into UE5 then maybe devs will utilize it to its fullest instead of using the 2.4 gbps xbox ssd as a base.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
ArcaneNLSC said:
I'm a Queenslander
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Howdy, mate! Greetings to all Queenslanders 🙌

Radical_3d said:
This might be right in a developed country but being Spaniard I’m less optimistic about companies keeping jobs.
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He's Spaniard as well, you need some optimism injection ;) I'm an Arabic teacher, but willing to try and learn UE for architectural design purposes, might do some good pocket money out of it. Don't draw boundaries to your horizon:lollipop_raising_hand: Already doing botany, zoology, and natural history at the moment and do some good cash out of it.

TLZ said:
I still need to know where I'm going!

Not that jinn place though thanks.
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No worries, we got plenty to do. We'll start with a leap of faith from here just like Altair then we'll improvise going forward.

Only ~950m altitude high, no ropes or cheating.

148933.jpg
 
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Thirty7ven

Thirty7ven

Banned
FeiRR said:
Unreal has been free for a while. The difference now is they upped the threshold after which you pay 5% royalties from $3k to $1m, which is a huge difference. I know lots of people who develop all kind of projects with UE, from artists, through performers (including VR) to students of game development. It's a smart strategy.
Click to expand...

It’s a game changer for them, opens up the playing field in a huge way.
 
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