Support NeoGAF

[Jon Neu]

It was also about the animation and the sound.

The animation was nothing to write about, so I really doubt it.

Are the 1440p and the 30 fps design choices too?

 

[funking giblet]

The animation was nothing to write about, so I really doubt it.

Are the 1440p and the 30 fps design choices too?

The tech they are using, doesn't need these types of loading areas. It was a close up. You could see through the gap even!

 

[ChrisB]

People use percentage to play it down, but in the right hands those TF could make a big difference in performance. I would like it if PS5 was 12Tf as well and you can bet your last dollar most Sony fans would as well.

I dont agree, they're basing it on percentage because that was used current gen for both base and pro consoles this is because of the same architecture being used by MS/Sony. Of course a particular fan base would want more power. Microsoft fans would want 15tf. I don't think a lot can be done with 3tf due the increased size of the assets.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Same. 1440p. Apparently the guy might be in hot water for this, as it would be breaking NDA.

All that shit talking by you yesterday, and it was just a video running on the labtop.

 

[yurinka]

you insist that anyone saying 2k means 2048x1080p LOL.
What a ridiculous thing to say.

Again 2k is a range 2000-2999.

This range is wrong.

The 2K term comes from DCI 2K, a cinema standard resolution (2048x1080 and its variants) set by the major motion picture studios, not by a random tech website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution

That resolution and its variants have in common that their horizontal resolution is pretty close to 2K pixels. One of the 2K resolutions of the 2K cinema standard is 1998x1080, so your 2000-2999 range is wrong.

Even if doesn't exactly match these resolutions, some TVs and displays are sometimes informally called 2K because have a pretty similar horizontal resolution of also almost 2K: the 1920x1080 ones, more commonly known as the official, more or less standard names of 1080p, Full HD or HD 1080.

Same goes for 4K. The cinema standard and TV/home displays don't use exactly the same resolutions but they have in common that their horizontal resolution is about 4K pixels.

This means that a resolution with an horizontal resoluiton of 2999 pixels or something close would be consided 3K and not 2K. Because it's close to 3000. But there isn't a 3K standard because there isn't a common resolution close to 3000 pixels of horizontal resolution.

And yes, the 16:9 1440p displays (2560 × 1440 pixels) are referred as Quad HD, QHD or WQHD (Wide Quad High Definition). The name comes because it's 4 times the resolution of HD, 720p. Only the 4:3 1440p displays would be '2K' (1920 × 1440 pixels).

 

[Bogroll]

It's not lies it's nonfactual however 2k within gaming community often referred to as 1440p why came about i have no idea.



There is simply no way to measure the performances of rdna2 till it's released into wild.

I know that's why I put rough guide. I would hope differences between RDNA2 and Rdna1 are better in RDNA2s favour. Hence minimum increase performance comparison. All just for a bit of fun and purely speculative.

 

[MCplayer]

You guys are arguing about monitors.

Just sayin

yeah, you can see how much some of these people shouldnt even be talking about xbox vs PS

 

[MCplayer]

The tech they are using, doesn't need these types of loading areas. It was a close up. You could see through the gap even!

it was loading the outside area and after the door

 

[Bogroll]

I dont agree, they're basing it on percentage because that was used current gen for both base and pro consoles this is because of the same architecture being used by MS/Sony. Of course a particular fan base would want more power. Microsoft fans would want 15tf. I don't think a lot can be done with 3tf due the increased size of the assets.

I thinking more along the lines of when games being pushed and are hitting between 50 and 60fps on Ps5 that Tf difference could be Xbsx hitting 60fps pretty much solid.

 

[funking giblet]

it was loading the outside area and after the door

I don't think so, doesn't make sense with Virtualized Geometry, you load what you see

 

[Agnostic2020]

.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

I know that's why I put rough guide. I would hope differences between RDNA2 and Rdna1 are better in RDNA2s favour. Hence minimum increase performance comparison. All just for a bit of fun and purely speculative.

It will be no question about that it's just question of how much overall, personally i don't think theirs even way to get rough idea, the only indication we got so far is 12tf is comparable to rtx2080 and thats based on one game running in one area, if overall matches that it to be seen.

 

[Agnostic2020]

The animation was nothing to write about, so I really doubt it.

Are the 1440p and the 30 fps design choices too?

Its targeting 60 fps and will be done before launch of the engine next year as they r still optimising. Textures are 8k. 60 fps and frame resolution 1440p temporal injected to 4k . Future looks bright.

 

[MCplayer]

I don't think so, doesn't make sense with Virtualized Geometry, you load what you see

ok then they were quite dumb in doing that scene since that only serves to hide what is loading next, they could clearly do a close up in another way...

 

[FireFly]

There are literally dozens of ways to show the cave wall geometry and textures without having the character to walk slowly through a crack.

And I guess when the character shot towards the portal at a million miles an hour, she had to stop several times to walk through cracks in the wall?

 

[Psykodad]

ok then they were quite dumb in doing that scene since that only serves to hide what is loading next, they could clearly do a close up in another way...

It could've just been a level-design choice and you might be reading too much into it.

 

[Jon Neu]

And I guess when the character shot towards the portal at a million miles an hour, she had to stop several times to walk through cracks in the wall?

That’s precisely why they did the trick of going slowly through the crack, to help the game load.

 

[Bogroll]

I

Yes, if you took the existing PS5 and you increased memory bandwidth, kept GPU clocks the same, kept the same SSD solution, kept price the same as the one expected ($399-499) and added CU’s or increased frequency even further why not?

Now, if you had to give up on something it would be a big ask depending on the component you are talking about. Relative difference is what it is, not a way to play things down or up. It allows you to compare and get an understanding of what would need to get cut or lowered in quality (is it resolution with some denoising to help save the day? Who knows).

With that said, some Xbox first party games will make that difference sing super loud while others will make PS5’s architecture choices sing (custom audio and general purpose processor, custom HW accelerated SSD I/O pipeline, very high GPU clocks, geometry engine enhancements, etc...). If 18% is undersold, 200% or so is undersold even more...

I would 200% is oversold reading this forum. It will be used for faster loading 99% of the time. Which dont get me wrong is a plus and of course there's the first party titles which will of course only will be possible on Ps5 like MGS4 was on Ps3 . Also I'm expecting the Ps5 to use a lot less energy and be quiet regarding all the power efficiency talk of switching between gpu and cpu. But we'll see, proof will be in the pudding.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That’s precisely why they did the trick of going slowly through the crack, to help the game load.

Do not think so, I think they were showing the animation system (and maybe something else like subsurface scattering in her fingers as well as dramatic lighting), but if you want to make it even more SSD dependent... sure

 

[Thabass]

But can it power Crysis?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do not think so, I think they were showing the animation system (and maybe something else like subsurface scattering in her fingers as well as dramatic lighting), but if you want to make it even more SSD dependent... sure

Damn, the XSX/PC will need a twice as long crevice then.

Pretty sure they made a passing comment in the video saying they knew that would come up and it wasn't about load times like current year.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

That’s precisely why they did the trick of going slowly through the crack, to help the game load.

They said this wasn't the case.

Tim specifically said they did that to show up-close textures.

 

[FireFly]

That’s precisely why they did the trick of going slowly through the crack, to help the game load.

So they need several seconds loading after travelling out of the first room, and then they can go for 5+ minutes without needing to load again, including perhaps a mile of outdoor terrain.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So they need several seconds loading after travelling out of the first room, and then they can go for 5+ minutes without needing to load again, including perhaps a mile of outdoor terrain.

Let him run with the false narrative. Thinks it's a gotcha, but that would mean XSX or PC would have to take twice as long in that scenario.

It was not there for load times.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

crossposting, but relevant ere as Lumen and Nanite are specifically discussed in this vid

Analysis by RGT

2:55 and on

Basically says that he thinks SSDs need to start becoming standard/common on PCs or PCs will need to start having more RAM to compensate. At least that is how I understood it

Talks about the chinese dev laptop situation

9:24

speculates that theoretically Lumen would run better on XsX due to GPU

9:50

says Nanite will probably work better on PS5 due to SSD

 

[Psykodad]

crossposting, but relevant ere as Lumen and Nanite are specifically discussed in this vid



2:55 and on

Basically says that he thinks PCs need to start becoming standard/common on PCs or PCs will need to start having more RAM to compensate. At least that is how I understood it

Talks about the chinese dev laptop situation

9:24

speculates that theoretically Lumen would run better on XsX due to GPU

9:50

says Nanite will probably work better on PS5 due to SSD

So basically, XSX will have a Lumen advantage, PS5 a Nanite advantage?

 

[quest]

Its targeting 60 fps and will be done before launch of the engine next year as they r still optimising. Textures are 8k. 60 fps and frame resolution 1440p temporal injected to 4k . Future looks bright.

How many times we heard that and it actually panned out? Don't get your Hope's up for either console this is a 30fps engine. A demo with nothing else gameplay wise going on add that on 60fps is not happening unless we are going back to 1080p. Cool technology but but I hope games I play that are fast paced don't use it. Looks like a great jrpg engine or turned based strategy game engine.

 

[Nikana]

crossposting, but relevant ere as Lumen and Nanite are specifically discussed in this vid



2:55 and on

Basically says that he thinks PCs need to start becoming standard/common on PCs or PCs will need to start having more RAM to compensate. At least that is how I understood it

Talks about the chinese dev laptop situation

9:24

speculates that theoretically Lumen would run better on XsX due to GPU

9:50

says Nanite will probably work better on PS5 due to SSD

It's almost like it's a third party engine that will adapt to every platform to maximize their potential and will result in minute differences because they are selling an engine.

Wild.

 

[ToadMan]

Is there much difference between a 5700 and a 5700xt with the same cpu and what is the difference in TFs for them.
P.s I'm just speaking off the cuff here and not looked that up, but it could be interesting as a rough guide as in percentage difference in TF and compare performance in RDNA 1.
I know it will be a few settings here and there and rez boost for XBSX mainly.

That’s not a comparison I have enough knowledge to make. In my experience PC comparisons don’t translate to console.

A cursory look at specs says the XT has both more CUs and a higher clock than the regular version. Which isn’t the same scenario as PS5/Xsex.

So I’m not sure comparison is makes any sense in this case.

 

[ToadMan]

I thinking more along the lines of when games being pushed and are hitting between 50 and 60fps on Ps5 that Tf difference could be Xbsx hitting 60fps pretty much solid.

But there are 2 reasons why that may not work out in practice

1) Xsex achieves that tflop advantage through extra parallelism in the GPU. It’s difficult to extract extra performance from parallelism and requires quite a lot of effort. Effort expended on 1 or 2 FPS won’t be worth it to multiplat devs.

2) Part of the reason for (1) is the likelihood devs will target the PS5 and port to Xsex since xsex should be able to run PS5 targeted games with little extra work. So if they optimise on PS5 for a target fps, the port to Xsex should preserve that FPS or perhaps Xsex runs a couple of frames Less but it won’t be enough to make a practical difference.

The performance difference won’t be enough to warrant the extra work to use the extra flops. The differences in quality will come from 1st parties.

 

[sendit]

The animation was nothing to write about, so I really doubt it.

Are the 1440p and the 30 fps design choices too?

Wait....so the tech they used to procedurally generate animation based on environmental data and contextual queues was nothing to write home about?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wait....so the tech they used to procedercally generate animation based on environmental data and contextual queues was nothing to write home about?

It’s the product of debuting on the wrong platform.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I
I would 200% is oversold reading this forum. It will be used for faster loading 99% of the time. Which dont get me wrong is a plus and of course there's the first party titles which will of course only will be possible on Ps5 like MGS4 was on Ps3 . Also I'm expecting the Ps5 to use a lot less energy and be quiet regarding all the power efficiency talk of switching between gpu and cpu. But we'll see, proof will be in the pudding.

Hehe, we will have to agree to disagree here .

 

[FireFly]

But there are 2 reasons why that may not work out in practice

1) Xsex achieves that tflop advantage through extra parallelism in the GPU. It’s difficult to extract extra performance from parallelism and requires quite a lot of effort. Effort expended on 1 or 2 FPS won’t be worth it to multiplat devs.

2) Part of the reason for (1) is the likelihood devs will target the PS5 and port to Xsex since xsex should be able to run PS5 targeted games with little extra work. So if they optimise on PS5 for a target fps, the port to Xsex should preserve that FPS or perhaps Xsex runs a couple of frames Less but it won’t be enough to make a practical difference.

The performance difference won’t be enough to warrant the extra work to use the extra flops. The differences in quality will come from 1st parties.

GPU workloads are inherently parallelisable because you are working on millions of pixels at a time. That's why GPU manufacturers are able to scale performance by increasing the number of compute units.

 

[BusierDonkey]

The PS5 dev kit demo is already running at 40fps on current laptops which don't have 5.5 GB/s SSDs.

Earlier this week, Epic Games presented an amazing tech demo of Unreal Engine 5 on PS5. That demo was running at 1440p with 30fps and looked spectacular. However, that same demo can already run with 40fps on an NVIDIA RTX2080 notebook at 1440p.

This has been confirmed by Epic Games China. According to Epic Games China, the Unreal Engine 5 Tech Demo can already run faster on the PC. Not only that, but it appears that the demo does not take full advantage of PS5’s SSD. After all, an NVMe 970 SSD is more than enough to run the game with 40fps at 1440p.

“Our goal is that the graphic quality like this demo, we want to make it run 60FPS at next-gen consoles. But now we do not reach the goal. Now it is 30FPS. Our target is 60FPS, that is also why we can not release it now. And I can assure you that we can run this demo in our notebook, in editor , not cooked, it even can 40FPS. (Afterwards someone in BBS confirmed that the device is RTX2080 and 970EVO)”

 

[Jon Neu]

So they need several seconds loading after travelling out of the first room, and then they can go for 5+ minutes without needing to load again, including perhaps a mile of outdoor terrain.

A mile full of desert and empty ruins with zero enemies and a super scripted portion of gameplay. And a long cutscene happens just before that part, by the way.

And the slow crack through happens just before the game goes into the open part of the cave and just before you enter the room of statues. Too much of a coincidence.

They said this wasn't the case.

Tim specifically said they did that to show up-close textures.

Well, they can’t say anything else.

It would be a total PR disaster if the tech gameplay demo made to sing the praises of the PS5 SSD happens to be filled with the same loading tricks of this gen.

But they are there.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

The PS5 dev kit demo is already running at 40fps on current laptops which don't have 5.5 GB/s SSDs.

Already been discussed to death everyones claiming diffrent things. Depending on what side of fence there on
Since i can't speak Chinese can't say either way but wouldn't surprise me either... But we'll just have wait and see.

 

[sendit]

That’s precisely why they did the trick of going slowly through the crack, to help the game load.

No.

Reference:

Epic insists Unreal Engine 5 PS5 tech demo crevice shimmy wasn't a loading trick

If you've watched the stunning Unreal Engine 5 PlayStation 5 tech demo, you may have noticed a few seconds when the cha…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Jon Neu]

Wait....so the tech they used to procedurally generate animation based on environmental data and contextual queues was nothing to write home about?

The actual animation of going through the crack?

Yes, it was nothing to write about. You should watch it again.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well, they can’t say anything else.

It would be a total PR disaster if the tech gameplay demo made to sing the praises of the PS5 SSD happens to be filled with the same loading tricks of this gen.

But they are there.

Any proof they are lying?!

Especially considering what they show after in the demo (no chance to hide loading of a tons more data) and that would just mean 2x as worse loading tricks on the XSX if it were true ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

The actual animation of going through the crack?

Yes, it was nothing to write about. You should watch it again.

He was referring to a segment later in the video, but keep putting the demo down... it is quite hilarious .

 

[Jon Neu]

No.

Reference:

Epic insists Unreal Engine 5 PS5 tech demo crevice shimmy wasn't a loading trick

If you've watched the stunning Unreal Engine 5 PlayStation 5 tech demo, you may have noticed a few seconds when the cha…

www.eurogamer.net

“Epic insists”.

Any proof they are lying?!

A company with millions at stake deceiving the public?

Of course not, that’s impossible.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The PS5 dev kit demo is already running at 40fps on current laptops which don't have 5.5 GB/s SSDs.

It was a video of the game running on PS5 playing on a laptop mate... .

 

[funking giblet]

“Epic insists”.




A company with millions at stake deceiving the public?

Of course not, that’s impossible.

Again, this specific technology is all about loading data that is in the view frustum, loading anything before hand (especially large amounts of data) would go against using virtualization in the first place.

 

[Panajev2001a]

A company with millions at stake deceiving the public?

Of course not, that’s impossib

So they are lying because...?

Because they technically could and could be found to have a motive for it due to allegiances, preferences, or money, is that it... ?! Wait are we talking about Epic or you ?

 

[Jon Neu]

He was referring to a segment later in the video, but keep putting the demo down... it is quite hilarious .

And I’m refering to the crack segment, which is what the discussion was about when someone else said that they did that to show the “animations and audio”.

And I’m sorry the demo didn’t impressed me as much as it did with the Sony warrior side. But don’t worry, I’m sure both the PS5 and the XsX are capable of a better display of graphics.

 

[sendit]

The actual animation of going through the crack?

Yes, it was nothing to write about. You should watch it again.

The overall demo (even the unimpressive shimmy through the crack). No model to model clipping. Contextual animation generated on the fly. It may not be impressive to you because it doesn't have any metrics/number attached to it?

 

[Panajev2001a]

And I’m sorry the demo didn’t impressed me as much as it did with the Sony warrior side

Yep, only people impressed were Sony warriors . Must be nice to have this narrow vision or be this disingenuous c’mon now...

 

[Jon Neu]

Yep, only people impressed were Sony warriors . Must be nice to have this narrow vision or be this disingenuous c’mon now...

You are by far the most impressed by it. It has been like the second coming of Christ for the Knackrens.

 

[sendit]

“Epic insists”.

No. Read past the headline and try again. (I believe you can do it)

"The squeeze served several purposes for us (close-in detail, animation, audio, demo flow), but we did have a tiny worry that folks would think it was necessary to hide loading. It wasn’t. "

Reference:

Epic insists Unreal Engine 5 PS5 tech demo crevice shimmy wasn't a loading trick

If you've watched the stunning Unreal Engine 5 PlayStation 5 tech demo, you may have noticed a few seconds when the cha…

www.eurogamer.net