CrysisFreak
Banned
The Poles fell for the meme lmao
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
- Status
The Poles fell for the meme lmao
zaitsu
Banned
I'm polish, our government is worse than trump
FeiRR
Banned
What's even funnier, two weeks ago police gassed here some peaceful protesters against lack of government help during the pandemic. But you know, some lives don't matter.
ToadMan
Member
1TB would come out to 931GiB - I don't think Sony would under-represent their drive especially when Cerny specifically mentioned they'd considered drive space vs download times.
And the other bits sound wrong too.
Last edited:
Gediminas
Banned
PS5 sat the tone. here we go.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Wait....with PS5 using 12 channels/chips this isn't possible is it? 12 x 64GiB = 768GiB = 825GB.
aclar00
Member
So what you're saying is...since the TFlops are lower on the PS5, 3rd parties will develop for it over XSX and get a benefit of faster loading times?
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s a YouTube comment guys...
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I didn't say he didn't explain it well enough. I used the term showcase. You have to show your amazing new tech in action and for some reason he didn't. like i said before, the ue5 demo was built for gdc so it was ready. End the conference with that demo and everyone instantly gets it.
xacto
Member
But you know that was a developers' conference, no showcasing demos of any kind.
geordiemp
Member
Stop spoiling my fun you killjoy.
Yes there is more going on with saves and then loads why i was estimating at numbers, we also have state decay loading in 10 seconds, a current gen game....but again it was not "optimised",
The numbers do point to MS not where they want to be, hell it was an MS advert for fast load and quick resume demo so clearly they have work to do !
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah but they streamed it to casuals like us. It got 14 million views. They should've been cognizant of that.
What's weird is that they went out of their way to make the flying section of the ue5 demo unplayable because they didn't want the gdc public trying to break it. So the initial plan must have been to release it within a day or two of the talk.
No idea why they held it back.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
What is the size of that Ori "instance"?
By the way, It is not called "instance", it is called footprint. Next time use it right so you even look that you know what are you talking about.
Digital Foundry:
Last edited:
Darius87
Member
there's 1000 of alleged ps5 devs on youtube all from different country with different info one thing to remember real devs is more engaged with making games rather posting comments on youtube another thing cerny said 825gb meaning is 825gb not 1tb.
ToadMan
Member
Yeah this could escalate with companies falling over themselves to prove how caring they are...
I don't think you're capable of getting are you? I mean the demo was from Epic, not Sony and the tech talk was a tech talk not a showcase.
I can understand that in the MS world an xsex gameplay reveal has no gameplay, and nothing running on xsex - so its easy to get confused. But not everyone is playing fast and loose with language like that.
Last edited:
FeiRR
Banned
Fun fact: originally Geralt's favourite profanity is "Plague" but it doesn't translate well.
Moses85
Member
Does work without any delay.
Insane Metal
Member
I imagine the PS5 will have something like 650-700GB free for installs. Which sucks balls.
zaitsu
Banned
10 was their day. Probably postponed.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm hoping the OS overhead is lighter than this gens HDD (I think a PS4 Pro HDD is 860GB usable?) so closer to 750GB+.
Metroiddarks
Member
Calm down is not useless the goal of this is other not use compress data is just raw bandwidth for servers.Yes, 20GB/s of useless reads. Kraken laughs at this with 22GB/s of data on screen/audio, interactive! and it's not theoretical, it's maximum achievable but not sustainable.
This PS5 gonna make those PC elites in a lot of pain
Even when looks so stupid and mediocre .... I am sure If will put to all the people who love to said opinions of dev of a videogame toYou gotta be braindead to enjoy this. But I think you win, this is the absolute worst, so far
make something similar .... I am sure the 90% of the people will not able even of create the menu.
Really we use max teoric of decompression for XSX but only the avarage in PS5 look how conveniente.
Any of this consoles will reach its maximum of decompression is basically any game, wil is 6 GB/s vs 22 GB/s of PS5.
And about your 1/5 please te
Your compression is better for texture only for texture but only in ratio of compression as we know (the speed of decompression is other thing), not all things streamed are texture
for other use Zlib (which is less efficient and slower than Kraken) and BCPack is an evolution at least please check what Xbox one already use.
Before you mention SFS, that use CPU for this reason cannot be use for all the call for textures instead Sony load directly to GPU cache. Also SF (parent of SF) is not an tecnlogy
without parallel is an evolution of tiled resources of Xbox one.
Yeah that is why when Xbox 360 was released has features which not were available in PC until few month later,'quit dreaming' guys
remember when the PC gamers cannot believe how looks Gears of War in 2006.
Then PC take revenge with Crysis one year later.
Last edited:
Games will be shown in July for MS June event is for their services like Game pass and xcloud, and maybe a deep dive of series X.
Insane Metal
Member
I don't see that happening, but I hope you're right!
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
After seeing the CP stream delayed three weeks, something tells me we won't be getting much from anyone over the next 10 days or so. expect delays.
gamerforever
Banned
Maybe they can get it out in japan and europe this year and delay the release in america until summer 2021?
Andodalf
Banned
I think it will come in at very close to 700
kuncol02
Banned
Gassing another incarnation of KOD was news in 2015. Now its old and nobody cares.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
sony had a lot of control over that demo. its epic's demo yes, but sony literally told them to make the flying section non playable so people couldnt try and break the demo by flying away in order to get a look the ps5 OS data.
sony can and should have asked Epic to just go on and release the demo after the talk was received so damn poorly. 100k dislikes in a few days and sony just sat on its ass. everyone assumed the ps5 was weaker. MS fanboys took victory laps. jason schrier was left baffled. i have no idea why you guys feel obligated to defend every bad move sony makes.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Indeed, man. Most consoles up until PS4 era were overpriced here, that made most casual gamers around here get shocked of how cheap the PS5 is when they read about that it might be $500 (192 OMR). Could you imagine that Atari 2600, Sega Saturn, PS1 were released as $2,600 USD (1,000 Omani Rials) consoles? Only the rich got them first. Most people would need to wait 1-3 years to get them in a better price, like around $650-910 (250-350 OMR). Those consoles were controlled by the black market.
When people around here became more aware of online shopping, it pushed those ridiculous numbers away, almost. But there are people who can't wait for 1 month here (November, released here in 1st of December official) many paid in advance to get the US PS4 versions for around $1170 (450 OMR). Official price was $470 though, still pretty good.
I would get the Xperia 1ii for around $1200 (gets you great WF-1000XM3 buds for free as well) and most likely would be my main camera for 4K@60fps (unlike their top alpha cameras) as it can shoot in 10-bit (unlike their top alpha cameras, which is crazy), and will do raw photos as well! Still waiting for at least 4K@60fps 10-bit Sony alpha to invest my money on it. 60fps at least would help to do some good slow-motion when filming birds or animals, along with a zoom mic!
Still, the Xperia 1ii being water resistant is pretty critical in our green season as we get constant, non-stop drizzles for weeks sometimes.TL;DR $500 is pretty reasonable for PS5/XSX.
Nearly fell down here when stepped on an empty gap but glad I didn't put my weight on it, didn't hear the Ghana funeral music at the time to warn me. (30-Aug-2014 in Dhalkout, Dhofar, Oman)
. (30-Aug-2014 in Dhalkout, Dhofar, Oman)
Last edited:
SportsFan581
Member
What is the size of that Ori "instance"?
By the way, It is not called "instance", it is called footprint. Next time use it right so you even look that you know what are you talking about.
Digital Foundry:
Technically, these are save states, but the memory footprint should dictate the size of the save.
If you have an instance of Ori running, and you fast-switch to something else, you'd need to save that current instance.
Last edited:
Metroiddarks
Member
I don't know if Cerny accepts .... Sony is a japanese company sometimes they just don't care but I expect this happens.
The problem is when Linus heard the declaration of Tim which was basically more less "PS5 has the higher bandwith than any PC" which is not true but also
that was not what Cerny or Tim said, the talk of all the process to get data from the SSD to the GPU cache not only in raw bandwidth also in overhead for CPU and other drivers and between
other things, they talk of PS5 in general concept.
Until July .... they should show games only that well maybe a couple tech demos but I am sure they wiil talk of XCloud or XSS.
Last edited:
SportsFan581
Member
What makes you think they aren't where they expected to be? Clearly PS5 has an advantage in this area.
xacto
Member
Would it have helped you more if Playstation didn't stream the conference at all, just because most of us are casuals? Look at this:
It's mentioned into the description that Mark Cerny is the lead architect, providing a deep dive into the PS5's system architecture. So, a dry, scientific presentation, not for casuals, at least not for me. You watched it at your own discretion, the fact you or I didn't get much means we're not technically able to understand it.
I am not sure where you get the information about the "unplayable" part of the UE5 demo, as to keep out the "gdc public" of playing, it sounds like you know more than I do about it, so please share details if you have them.
All in all, I am happy I watched that conference, I came back to it over and over and learned new things, from people in here and over the internet. I am not frustrated, on the contrary I'd say.
geordiemp
Member
2 teardowns, Journalist hands on, fast resume demo marketing, fast load demo marketing, Last game thing they did, Gears demo and Minecraft demo.......check
Sony main pillar is super fast SSD, Spiderman < 1 second LAST YEAR and now EPIC asset streaming - check
You would think by now, seeing spiderman load fast a year ago, MS would of shown something better by now. Its odd, very odd.
A backward pigmy could work out what MS should have shown. Hence my take, they are not ready yet.
Maybe MS thought fast loading was not so critical and were blindsided by EPIC demo. Maybe changing windows type IO file systems is just a lengthy pain ? Who knows ?
Whats your take ?
Last edited:
xacto
Member
You know what sucks balls even more? My 1TB HDD in my PS4, that seems to die every time I create a party and I am trying to invite someone in chat...
SportsFan581
Member
But how does any of that indicate that they haven't hit their internal targets.
And was this < 1 second Spiderman load a cold boot or a fast travel? If the latter, there is a lot of the data you need in memory already (the fast travel is faster than the initial load by a good margin on PS4).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yep. i brought this up before. MS has been super on top of their marketing, and sony showed the spiderman loading and streaming demo literally 10 months before MS showed off their loading demos. its bizarre that they would fail to oversee something like this.
the fact of the matter is that cerny had to add 5 additional blocks to the i/o to take full advantage of his 5.5 gbps bandwidth. MS was already behind on the overall bandwidth and settled for just one of the five hardware blocks. there is no way they can catch up with a software API. And those loading demos show.
That said, the description under their youtube videos indicates that these demos were not using the velocity architecture. so who knows. maybe this will be patched in by launch.
geordiemp
Member
I am assuming based on all the published blurb by MS (SFS+ , velocity architecture, 100 GB ) that they are working on this stuff ....That is a logical stance.
This is a speculation and analysis thread after all. I looked at what MS shown, was unimpressed and speculated.
If MS have finished all their IO work, and they showed their best side, then ...
Last edited:
SportsFan581
Member
So Sony showed off an 8x loading improvement and MS showed off a 4x loading improvement, and given the raw numbers on the drives, this surprised you?
I think if you are way behind, you don't bring in the journalists and never make the demos.
geordiemp
Member
You have answred the questions, I was speculating MS have not finshed their API / IO software. and the loading demo says so on bottom of the youtube video lol
Last edited:
geordiemp
Member
See post above yours, in the youtube video small text MS say they are still not finished. There you go, knew it.
My guess is they have to change the file system they use as its too slow, hence the talk of the 100 GB section, but the monumentous task is the api needs to be also for windows and good luck changing that file system with compatability for lots of software - its a big task.
What if MS have a system on XSX but it does not apply to windows...? Plot thickens.
Sony dont have that problem.
Last edited:
ToadMan
Member
Wow big claim! Let’s see your big evidence to go with it ....
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I would personally think that games if anything should get cheaper. The process of games should be way faster, way cheaper, and way photorealistic, at least for PS5. I would expect intense competition going forward that would force price drops and sales more often than now. Of course, not every studio has Cinema division like Sony to exploit unique assets. If other studios don't wanna get repetitive using Quixel Megascans (which I doubt they'll ever stop feeding the library with more assets) they would need to travel more to pick up their own 3D assets.
I would believe making games for PS5 is much cheaper than making it for PS4, just like the Titan fall sub-studio optimizing for Xbox 360 consumed more money than XB1 as I read around here once, not sure about it though. Studios would still use that spare money to reach higher grounds of ambitions, if they are ambitious to begin with.
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's hard to say. i personally enjoyed going back to it and rewatching it just like you did, but i have friends who still have no clue wtf cerny was talking about and never bothered to go back. And these are sony fans.Would it have helped you more if Playstation didn't stream the conference at all, just because most of us are casuals? Look at this:
It's mentioned into the description that Mark Cerny is the lead architect, providing a deep dive into the PS5's system architecture. So, a dry, scientific presentation, not for casuals, at least not for me. You watched it at your own discretion, the fact you or I didn't get much means we're not technically able to understand it.
I am not sure where you get the information about the "unplayable" part of the UE5 demo, as to keep out the "gdc public" of playing, it sounds like you know more than I do about it, so please share details if you have them.
All in all, I am happy I watched that conference, I came back to it over and over and learned new things, from people in here and over the internet. I am not frustrated, on the contrary I'd say.
At the end of the day, we are discussing whether or not this tech was showcased well, and it clearly wasn't. I will concede that Sony had described their video accurately, but 99% of the people here went in expecting demos. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Water under the bridge, the UE5 demo blew minds, calmed down many fears, and did more to showcase Sony's tech than Cerny did.
The bit about Sony making the flying section unplayable was posted here a while ago. It was from a UE5 engineer. I will try to find it but since it was a screenshot, it's gonna be a hard find.
bitbydeath
Member
Yeah, that was my point. Three different CPU’s and tempest is the equivalent of what’s found in PS3/PS4.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Interesting breakdown, not sure of how legit it is but sounds good enough:
As a basis, each polygon (quadrangle or triangle - not considering n-gons) has 4 LONG indices into the vertex array - triangles simply have duplicate indices for the last two. Each vertex is only listed once in the vector array (ignoring split surfaces and other things) and contains three FLOAT values (x, y, z).
Each polygon is 4x4 bytes = 16 bytes
Each vertex is 3x4 bytes = 12 bytes
So, if you have a polygon object with 24576 (x16) polygons and 24578 (x12) points (a cube with 64x64x64 segments), it would occupy (generally speaking for the polygons and points):
393216+294936 = 688152 (688 KB)
Of course, in C4D, the Object Properties shows the memory as about 1440 KB (1.44 MB). That is because of Phong and UVW. Remove them and it shows as ca 672 KB.
To continue on to the actual problem of determining how many polygons can fit into 1GB memory. The problem, as can be seen, is that the number of points and polygons are somewhat independent. You can have N polygons all split with their own points or those polygons all sharing points to some extent (think planar grid or even a circle with a common center point). Generally, in a quadrilinear grid, almost all points will be shared by 4 polygons (except the edge points). So, if we just say naively that for each polygon there is one point, we get a value (where 1GB = 2^30):
1073741824/(16+12) = 38347922 polygons (ca 38 million)
This would only work if nothing else occupied the 1GB of memory - which is unlikely. And C4D typically has several copies of the object floating about (caches and such).
----
Posted by Kuroyume0161 on:
Cgsociety.org
forums.cgsociety.org
Last edited:
xacto
Member
I understand, but 99% of the people going to a GDC presentation expecting demos, that's on them, not on poor presentation on Sony's side, let's be honest. Keep your expectations in check, go in with an open mind, and expect the unexpected. Now Sony fans not going back on that presentation, I can understand that, most people aren't like us in here, splitting hairs, they just want games, not how the console works.
For me the tech was well-presented just as it clearly wasn't for you, so let's agree to disagree on this one.
- Status