eastwood333
Banned
Games can ALWAYS use better/more efficient ways of improving graphics at a lower cost.
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Digital Foundry claims PS5 doesn't exhibit any evidence of VRS(Variable Rate Shading) from PS5 showcase.
- Thread starter semicool
- Start date
Games can ALWAYS use better/more efficient ways of improving graphics at a lower cost.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Disregard then i must be confusing it with checkerboard rendering. I stand by my point though that these early generation games done need VRS to hit thier targets.
Thugnificient
Banned
VRS...RDNA2 key features? When the tech was pioneered by NVIDIA?
maybe it was not hardware based but software based?
Die Namek Ability
Member
I was confusing it with checkerboard rendering.
Thugnificient
Banned
Which is irrelevant when you have hit your target frame rate. If they target 30fps/4K and it can be achieved without VRS, why would they care about using it? It'd be useful if they fell short of their target frame rates and used it to claw back some extra performance. Otherwise, native res is still preferable.
Insane Metal
Member
Was it ever noticed in XSX games? Serious question.
Also these games are really early, like pre alpha early, so.... whatever?
Also these games are really early, like pre alpha early, so.... whatever?
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Iced Arcade
Member
The series X is a more powerful console so little things are going to show just like the PS5 is going to load faster.
eastwood333
Banned
Only the best multiplats, which make up the majority of game release.
There's this really big game called Halo Infinite launching on the XSX. And i'd wait before we see the MS 1st party main July E3 event before making dumb fanboy statements. Well known insider Shinobi says it will be a very good show full of big beautiful worlds, sci fy etc..
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wasn’t that MS’s slogan early on?
eastwood333
Banned
Yes, the very first XSX game MS revealed at the 2019 game awards.... Hellblade 2 trailer
Quantum253
Gold Member
Ratchet running in native 4K looks amazing. I wouldn't think it needs VRS unless you wanted it 60fps and more advanced ray tracing. All these games are still in development so who knows what the release will look like. Any improvements would be that sweet cherry on top
Die Namek Ability
Member
I thought the resolution was wonky because of the cinematic black bars at the top and bottom of the image.
Thugnificient
Banned
They used VRS for what was a clearly pre-rendered trailer? Really? Got a source?
ManaByte
Member
Why WOULDN'T you want 60fps and better ray tracing if there was a hardware tech that would help with that?
eastwood333
Banned
I don't follow?
Matsuchezz
Member
Do i need vrs to have fun and enjoy my games? Ten of thousands games have not had vrs for many many years. We were really dumb playing games without it!! Dumb dumb gamers. Uncle Phil is right we are not capable of comprehend what good games are until we play with vrs on. I hope they spread vrs all over my games to play them right and have real fun.
if this is a feature on the api i do not see why not some engineer can develop it within the ps5 api and named it differently to achieve the same result. MS just published its internal features with fancy names and they can claim that ps5 does not have any of those features with the same exact name And it is stupid. I work for a large telecom company and the features on our products have different names across different vendors.
if this is a feature on the api i do not see why not some engineer can develop it within the ps5 api and named it differently to achieve the same result. MS just published its internal features with fancy names and they can claim that ps5 does not have any of those features with the same exact name And it is stupid. I work for a large telecom company and the features on our products have different names across different vendors.
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Andodalf
Banned
You might be thinking of FP16, kinda similar in that it aims to be more efficient by rendering certain elements with less precision, but half rate precision and VRS are very different in practice.
eastwood333
Banned
It's been confirmed to be "in-engine" Yes, watch the DF analysis of the Hellblade 2 trailer. They're really impressed by it
It's going to be in the game. MS has been touting VRS for a reason
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Die Namek Ability
Member
I thought it wasnt 4k because of the black bars not VRS or was it both?
Is the Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 teaser truly a taste of next-gen power?
We've seen snippets of Halo Infinite over the last couple of years, but the recent reveal of Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 …
www.eurogamer.net
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Insane Metal
Member
How was it noticed if there was no gameplay? What?
Thugnificient
Banned
You mean it uses half the precision to render the same elements at half the computational costs saving on resources immensely. Kinda why DOOM Eternal runs so much better on cards supporting it than cards that do not.
eastwood333
Banned
Improving graphics with sharper detail is irrelevant now? It's not just used to up framerates
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
MS just touts whatever is exclusive to them regardless of how good it is
Quantum253
Gold Member
I absolutely would. I have confidence that ps5 has VRS. There was the Activision designer who confirmed here on GAF, I think Rich was just saying that he didn't see ant evidence of it. I'm sure Twitter will get to the bottom of it.
Redirect Notice
www.google.com
Tripolygon
Banned
VRS reduces detail and sharpness.
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Thugnificient
Banned
The fuck? Dude do you reseach. VRS does the opposite of improving graphics. It uses less shadings in areas outside of the player's field of view to improve performance. Not the opposite. It's extra performance at the cost of parts of the scenes that don't suffer too much from less shading.
Andodalf
Banned
Nah I’m talking about FP16, which at this point everything supports but is not often used, or VRS. FP 16 is literally doing the maths at half rate, VRS, as the name implies, at work at any rate, even less than half rate, but it’s the rate of the shaders, not the rate of the maths being done
eastwood333
Banned
Read my prior post, genius.
VRS sharpens detail where it matters most to the naked eyes, while putting less detain in objects further away that are less noticeable/ if noticeable at all.
Andodalf
Banned
VRS can save performance which means more render budget for other elements such as RT, is the idea
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Why use VRS when you got Geometry Engine? VRS is a retard tech that gimps the graphics and causes ladder effects and artifacts. And why talk about it when all are native 4K?
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Andodalf
Banned
... what? That’s like asking why use a seatbelt when you have airbags. Please use both. They have similar goals but are not the same in any way
eastwood333
Banned
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Again, XSX mesh shaders does what ps5s geometry engine does. Doest mean Hargett posted is false. Just , in other words, his implication from his statement is that VRS doesn't hold a candle to XSXs mesh shaders (ps5 Geometry Engine equivalent). The XSX has BOTH VRS AND mesh shaders. Mesh shaders on the XSX is more potent than VRS from my understanding too like Hargett implies, it's just nice to have both features, which are complementary and the sum is greater than the 2 features separately.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
No they don't have similar goals. VRS downgrades the overall image, Geometry Engine locks in the needed polygon budget per frame for stable native/chosen resolution.
VRS is shit tech compared to smart Geometry-Engine-based tech like Nanite on UE5.
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Tripolygon
Banned
VRS does not sharpen detail genius, it reduces detail. The point is to vary the rate of shading based on area of importance. If done right, you won't notice it if done poorly you will notice it.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Mesh shaders? You mean the software solution? Geometry Engine is hardware solution. And yes, it's like asking about underwear color when someone is well dressed and not naked. And assuming they didn't notice it using youtube, well, glad that PS5 hardware is strong enough to not partially gimp the graphics and ruin the overall image.
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eastwood333
Banned
VRS free's up resources to improve other graphic's and is not just for stabilizing framerates.
I just posted a link of an Nvidia engineer explaining as much.
Die Namek Ability
Member
I would say it reduces sharpness but i would think detail is a product of asset management.
Thugnificient
Banned
Sure everything has some support of it but nowhere near the same level. Everything after Fermi and before Turing has lousy FP16 performance. Apparently explains why pre-turing cards suck so much with DOOM Eternal.
The way you worded your post made it sound like you were implying FP16 rendered scenes with less accuracy but it really uses half the precision to render the same elements. Re-reading now that you clarified, it makes more sense now.
Yes sure, don't link the rest of it by all means;
That's what it does. The areas outside of the immediate field of view(or blurry or dark areas) use less shading that either free up resources for higher performance or said resources are redirected towards the player's field of view to increase the image quality there. It still sacrifices image quality in other parts of the scene to improve it elsewhere. It doesn't increase it across the board.
They also demo'd it in Gears Tactics and the image quality was overall worse.
Also watched the DF analysis of Hellblade 2...not a word about VRS. Alex even suspects it of being pre-rendered.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It partially gimps the whole resolution in parts of the frame shown. It's very visible in the last nvidia's demo of their $5,500 RTX8000 demo, to the point it's laughable.
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
Well we know VRS is a feature of RDNA 2, but GAF says PS5 is more like RDNA 2.5.
Tripolygon
Banned
It is all about compromises. Reduce rendering load by reducing shading rate and detail of certain parts to gain in other places, just like checkerboard rendering and temporal reconstruction. All these tools like Primitive Shaders, VRS, Raytracing, Tessellation etc are optional graphics features that can be used at developer's discretion. Keyword here being optional.
Die Namek Ability
Member
Well i guess it should be used sparingly when absolutely needed to maintain framerates.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Probably, but DF spreading their paid FUD about something not needed in the shown content is anything but outrageously dishonest. Doesn't surprise me anyway, they're kinda sad they had to rely on youtube's 10x compressed videos.
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