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Next gen is going to be even more woke!

Eimran

Eimran

Member
Before I start I want to point out that I'm merely stating my opinion and I'll gladly listen to/discus with people who think otherwise.🙂

After the last Sony event I had mixed feelings. While there were definitely good looking games, others raised questions to me and not in a good games.

We already saw in the current gen more and more companies try to score woke points by pandering to our purple haired friends at Resetera. While we all remember the battlefield V-drama also other companies believed that pandering translated into more sales. Examples were animal crossing, rage 2, dishonored, Wolfenstein.


dlgUFfz.png


While you'd think that companies learn from this, the wokeness not only does not stop, they even seem to go further.

Games in general reaches people of all ages and are thus a great medium to sell a political agenda. Without throwing oil again on the The Last of Us 2-fire, the developer clearly stated that the game would be inspired by his personal politics.


eLItaEO.jpg



Even during game conventions a forum is given to parties that strive for diversity, political correctness and censorship in video games. I believe this is a dangerous trend as it means that developers who threw years of finances and talent into a game can face backlash simply for not meeting representation quota for a specific community. For example Days gone was review bombed by individuals because it was too white focused with two white protagonists. I fear now this will encourage other developers even more to get on the woke train because they could potentially lose profit for simplu not being inclusive enough, even if it doesn't benefits the goal of the game.


2RgmZMt.jpg



As someone who has been a Playstation fan all my life I fear even the most for Sony. The western headquarters lie in San Mateo, California which is a very leftist orientated state. So for them representation is a very important topic and I reckon it will stay so. In Hollywood they are currently working in such a way that you have to meet a certain inclusiveness quota to be eliglible for an Oscar nomination so I wouldn't be surprised if this practice would be copied to the gaming industry.

Sony had already shown disturbing signs of censorship. Removing cleavage from female npc's, making women less feminine because they might offend the trans players etc


OP2oWgp.jpg



The reason I believe this will only worsen is because the people they try to pander with wokeness will A) never play the game anyway . B) can never be satisfied. Even one of the games during the last event is facing backlash because of certain racial stereotypes. They don't seem to realize you can't win with these people. They'll just keep try to please them and and revenue lost will simply be linked to bigotry/sexism/racism or any kind of buzzword.

While I have no problem with certain inclusiveness as long it benefits the story or gameplay I believe this is rarely the case. While I'll admit that I am more right leaning I would be equally displeased with games that would be inspired by right politics.
For me games are fun escapes of reality where I'd like to forget social issues for a few hours and just enjoy a game which shows the developers creativity and which is not used as a Trojan horse for a political agenda. I am certainly not saying developers can't implement their personal politics because that would also be a sort of censorship and I support developer creativity as long it doesn't involve illegal activities (like the developer of the Volcano high game). I can simply chose not to play the game and hope others still enjoy it nevertheless.
As much as I love gaming I'm afraid this could be a determening factor for me to stop gaming or at least go retro.

So what is your opinion on this fellow gaffers. How do you feel about personal politics in games, are you indifferent about censorship and how high do you rate representation in games.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
We are observing a clear worldwide game development trend, at least in western culture, by focusing it on Sony only we enter more console warrior territory than anything else which hurts the attention this phenomenon actually does warrant... bit of an own goal...
 
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Coolwhhip

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Makariel said:
I still don't give a shit as long as the game is any good. And when the demon's souls remaster lands I'll only play that for a year anyway.

Vote with your wallets, you grandstanding in a gaming forum won't affect business decisions.
Click to expand...

If something is good woke or not doesn't really matter. It's just annoying.
 
S

sid2vicious

Banned
Blitzmangoman said:
Just buy the games you want (to support).
Sooner or later the gaming industry will learn.
Click to expand...

But that's the problem, Progressivism is trying to change the industry which forces them to adapt. Which means you won't be able to support the games that you like because they will no longer exist and those companies will have to either adapt or go out of business. These changes are already taking its toll on certain franchises like dead or alive and senran kagura, but when is too much, too much? Soon bigger ips will be affected, and by then it'll be to late to change anything.
 
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ToadMan

ToadMan

Member
I don’t get this thread or the animosity in general.

Check out the reviews - TLoU 2 is a murder sim. Reviewers have basically all said it’s unremittingly violent and the story is harrowing.

Into all that violence they put a lesbian character.

Is that woke? Is it woke to say “hey lesbians exist and they’re violent murderers just like straight white men!”

That hardly seems to be pandering to a woke agenda. It seems like the opposite

If TLoU had Ellie being some kind of heroin who goes zero kills and shows everyone the error of their violent ways while curing the virus - sure maybe. She doesn’t as far as I can tell from reviews.

If naughty dog really wanted to shit on straight white males they’d have put a straight white male in the title role and ended the game by showing what a piece of shit he was.

They didn’t do that - even in uncharted Nathan Drake never got his comeuppance for the murder sprees and

Joel condemns humanity to the virus by murdering a whole bunch of people to get Ellie out of the lab. He puts the wellbeing of one above the wellbeing of everyone. It could be argued TLOU2 should have been a story about what evil he had done. That would’ve been a woke agenda.



In fact I think Sony and ND are running a risk of a backlash for portraying a “marginalised and vulnerable” community member in a bad light in TLOU2. Instead they show those people to be just as murderous, cruel and selfish as any one else.
 
HerjansEagleFeeder

HerjansEagleFeeder

Gold Member
You have to look at it from the bright side of things. While these idiots think that their not-so-subtle propaganda offensive is convincing anybody of their abstruse political ideology, what they achieve in fact is getting more and more people aware of their evil plans. That will create a backlash. It's a complete waste of time to try to change the entertainment industry for the better (Hollywood has always been red). We should keep quiet and watch them demontage themselves. And when the time is right, we strike. In the meantime, educate and prepare yourselves. There's probably going to be a culture war. Think McCarthyism.
 
J

Joshmyersbv

Member
Here's the thing, if woke games sell like shit then companies will flip it back around. Companies are greedy as fuck and most won't let politics get in the way of profit. They pander now for social justice points on Twitter but the video game industry can't bleed money like the movie industry.
 
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Blitzmangoman

Blitzmangoman

Member
sid2vicious said:
those companies will have to either adapt or go out of business.
Click to expand...
It will come to this, yes. If they want to go that shit route, let them go out of business. It's not my problem. There will always be something else and if there isn't, I just won't play. Easy. Not like my life is ending.
 
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PanzerAzel

PanzerAzel

Member
It’s a subject with a hell of a lot of nuance and something that needs to be ascertained in the specific instance, not viewed as a collective push. I don’t think Tomb Raider is woke, nor Bayonetta, but I do believe TLoU II has an agenda of representation behind it, evidenced by various factors.

But I take every game on its own merits. It doesn’t bother me and I actually enjoy it, as it provides discussion fodder for the forum and often offers tremendous humor value. I’m looking forward to TLoU II’s release just as much for the SJW/anti-SJW shit storm it’ll create as for the game itself.

Five more days. 😬
 
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S

sid2vicious

Banned
Blitzmangoman said:
It will come to this, yes. If they want to go that shit route, let them go out of business. It's not my problem. There will always be something else and if there isn't, I just wont play. Easy. Not like my life is ending.
Click to expand...

Your right it isn't your problem now, until it affects all your games. It won't happen overnight, but it's a political movement which eventually will make it all our problem, when we can't play the games we like.
 
OutrageousFacts

OutrageousFacts

Banned
It's why I built a PC and said goodbye to non-Nintendo consoles: I can't be bothered by platform manufacturerer's bs anymore.

I also wrote this yesterday which fits this thread's topic:

www.neogaf.com

Little Devil Inside Attacked For Having ‘Racist Caricatures’

Maybe you should learn to read too, versus seeing what you want to see. (Incoming out-of-context quotes, rearranged and disordered to alter narrative) There is no narrative here. I don't find the masks offensive. You don't. Neither does he. I don't believe you guys even know what you're...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
Klayzer

Klayzer

Member
ToadMan said:
I don’t get this thread or the animosity in general.

Check out the reviews - TLoU 2 is a murder sim. Reviewers have basically all said it’s unremittingly violent and the story is harrowing.

Into all that violence they put a lesbian character.

Is that woke? Is it woke to say “hey lesbians exist and they’re violent murderers just like straight white men!”

That hardly seems to be pandering to a woke agenda. It seems like the opposite

If TLoU had Ellie being some kind of heroin who goes zero kills and shows everyone the error of their violent ways while curing the virus - sure maybe. She doesn’t as far as I can tell from reviews.

If naughty dog really wanted to shit on straight white males they’d have put a straight white male in the title role and ended the game by showing what a piece of shit he was.

They didn’t do that - even in uncharted Nathan Drake never got his comeuppance for the murder sprees and

Joel condemns humanity to the virus by murdering a whole bunch of people to get Ellie out of the lab. He puts the wellbeing of one above the wellbeing of everyone. It could be argued TLOU2 should have been a story about what evil he had done. That would’ve been a woke agenda.



In fact I think Sony and ND are running a risk of a backlash for portraying a “marginalised and vulnerable” community member in a bad light in TLOU2. Instead they show those people to be just as murderous, cruel and selfish as any one else.
Click to expand...
Woke, SJW, Alt right (or left) all these favorite internet adjectives means absolutely nothing. They're thrown out wildly by people that disagree with anything. Since when is a white lesbian super sniper some kind of progressive take on video game storytelling.
 
HerjansEagleFeeder

HerjansEagleFeeder

Gold Member
Pandor said:
Nextgen? All the things you mentioned only apply to Sony

where did MS do the same?
Click to expand...

I agree that MS and Sony are different in that regard. Remember when MS announced this new inclusive controller for disabled people? Everyone liked it. Because it was simply a good move. No ideological pandering, no SJW bullshit. Just a good move. MS has frequently spoke out against racism, too. No one disagrees. No. one.
What Sony does is on a whole different level, however. Some parts of this company seem to be on a political holy crusade.
 
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PanzerAzel

PanzerAzel

Member
ToadMan said:
I don’t get this thread or the animosity in general.

Check out the reviews - TLoU 2 is a murder sim. Reviewers have basically all said it’s unremittingly violent and the story is harrowing.

Into all that violence they put a lesbian character.

Is that woke? Is it woke to say “hey lesbians exist and they’re violent murderers just like straight white men!”

That hardly seems to be pandering to a woke agenda. It seems like the opposite

If TLoU had Ellie being some kind of heroin who goes zero kills and shows everyone the error of their violent ways while curing the virus - sure maybe. She doesn’t as far as I can tell from reviews.

If naughty dog really wanted to shit on straight white males they’d have put a straight white male in the title role and ended the game by showing what a piece of shit he was.

They didn’t do that - even in uncharted Nathan Drake never got his comeuppance for the murder sprees and

Joel condemns humanity to the virus by murdering a whole bunch of people to get Ellie out of the lab. He puts the wellbeing of one above the wellbeing of everyone. It could be argued TLOU2 should have been a story about what evil he had done. That would’ve been a woke agenda.



In fact I think Sony and ND are running a risk of a backlash for portraying a “marginalised and vulnerable” community member in a bad light in TLOU2. Instead they show those people to be just as murderous, cruel and selfish as any one else.
Click to expand...
“Wokeness” isn’t contingent on the actions of the individual, it transcends individuality to push for collective causes and ideals (racial equality, LGBT rights, better diversity, greater representation, etc).
 
Rikkori

Rikkori

Member
They're just giving the people what they want, as evidenced by the record sales numbers. At the end of the day, money talks bullshit walks.
 
Makariel

Makariel

Member
Coolwhhip said:
If something is good woke or not doesn't really matter. It's just annoying.
Click to expand...
Annoying to you, which is your opinion and which I respect. While I don't care about what gender or race made up virtual characters have. So in the end it's just an opinion and if you don't like certain things in games then you can just ignore them. The market will correct if there is an imbalance. So if the adage "go woke go broke" is indeed true, we should run out of woke games any minute now, since they won't sell :)

And in case they do sell, they will continue to be made. Anita sharkesian or whatever her name was is broke from what I read, so that was the market in action. Kingdom come sold well (and is one of my favourite games in recent years, despite the bugs) and they are still in business. So just vote with your wallet and ignore the idiots on twitter.
 
10000

10000

Banned
DaveMorris said:
You have to look at it from the bright side of things. While these idiots think that their not-so-subtle propaganda offensive is convincing anybody of their abstruse political ideology, what they achieve in fact is getting more and more people aware of their evil plans. That will create a backlash. It's a complete waste of time to try to change the entertainment industry for the better (Hollywood has always been red). We should keep quiet and watch them demontage themselves. And when the time is right, we strike. In the meantime, educate and prepare yourselves. There's probably going to be a culture war. Think McCarthyism.
Click to expand...


u guys bashing on resetera and in the same time wishing companies to go broke if they are woke and planning a strike when the time is right.

such an irony, you guys and era is just the opposite side of mirror, there's no neutrality or in between
 
Doom85

Doom85

Member
The fuck is the OP talking about? Last of Us Part 2 and Days Gone are both high sellers. As for the latter's lower review scores, I saw the detail that the first 10 hours of the game is kinda weak in the story department (it picks up after that) plus the fact the game did have a few technical issues being mentioned in those reviews more than anyone bringing up Deacon being white. If we want to criticize reviewers for not playing the game to finish, okay then, but let's not call it what it isn't. Hell, Days Gone supports both left-leaning and right-leaning politics, two of the biggest characters in the second act of the story are an interracial lesbian couple, and at one point in the game a character specifically states that anyone will be accepted in their group no matter their race or sexual orientation, but then also it's pointed out that gun owners had better odds in surviving the outbreak in its earliest days. So really, the game probably triggered plenty of people on both sides.

And at first you claim the recent conference is relevant to this....and then proceed to not specify examples and instead focus on controversies of the past. So what's the issue? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but yes I did notice that the only white male characters were Ethan from RE 8 and maybe Agent 47 from Hitman 3 (not played that series so not sure if he's white, Asian, etc.) But that doesn't bother me. I have no issue with plenty of female and non-white characters, even if they became the majority, as plenty of them in the game looked appealing to me. Heck, I realized exactly why the lead of Returnal is a middle-aged woman, the game implies focus on psychological/emotional issues of her past and Returnal rhymes with "maternal". That's actually clever, and so yeah ten bucks says she had a kid(s) that is either dead or something else bad happened to them.

I know plenty of people called Horizon Zero Dawn "woke" because according to them Aloy was "ugly". First of all, these folks must have gotten really lucky in their lives to never meet women who took actually zero care when it came to their hygiene and diet if Aloy is "ugly" in their eyes (not particularly attractive to them, okay, but ugly? For real?) Then the game goes on to do INSANELY well in sales for a new IP and we already have a sequel announced. See, this is why I roll my eyes whenever someone says, "go woke, go broke". Beyond the fact that their side can't even agree on what qualifies as "woke" thus making the term more meaningless each day, but it's phrased as an absolute but then plenty of counter-examples pop up. And when they do, some of the phrase-users go, "oh, it's just meant to refer to the times when one of them does do poorly in sales." Well, that's a pretty badly designed statement by that argument in my eyes.
 
Guilty_AI

Guilty_AI

Member
Creators always put their world views into their creations, and it should remain that way even if some of these views are dumb.

The real problem is cancel culture. If you dare to step even a little bit out of the line, you'll be at risk of being canceled, be by having tribal masks or putting some cleavege in a female character. Thats the real issue i'm currently having with the western gaming scene. Its not so much that they're getting woke as much as they're afraid of not showing wokeness.
 
Bartski

Bartski

Gold Member
As a proponent of freedom of speech and expression, I stand against cancel culture and all forms of ideological outrage bullying. Which is why I find so much of the anti-SJW rhetoric I encounter, also here on GAF, equally as skewed as intersectional leftism and other modern-day lunacies
 
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