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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
MasterCornholio said:
With an I/O that's so fast does the PS5 even need a suspend resume feature with multiple games?
Click to expand...
No. Hit save, boot new game. Go right into a multiplayer match or resume your singleplayer story right from the main home screen in 2 seconds. No need for wasting SSD space to save RAM caches.

Quick Resume is a useless feature that no one needs or will use. People don't switch games like they switch apps on their phones. And it wouldn't even work with multiplayer games. Good luck suspending an online game.

Last thing I'd ever want to do is start up Spider-Man, start swinging around, hit pause, then jump into God of War, start fighting, and as soon as I kill an enemy, hit suspend, jump into GT7 and start a race I suspended 5 minutes ago.

What a shit way to experience a singleplayer game.

"Quick Resume - play every* singleplayer game you own for 30 seconds each in under 10 minutes, only on Xbox"

"*not really every game, we only have so much room on our 500 GB SSD to reserve just for this 1 feature"
 
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jose4gg

jose4gg

Member
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
simple example:
gtx 1660ti is a capable gpu for 1080p and even some 1440p. it's 5tf
gtx 2080ti is a capable gpu for 4k. it's 13tf

1660 will play forza horizon 4 at 1080p ultra between 88-97fps
1660 will play forza horizon 4 at 1440p ultra between 67-83fps
2080 will play forza horizon 4 at 4k ultra between 62-90fps

some more examples:

gta 5 ultra
1660ti 1080p 85-95fps
1660ti 1440p 54-64fps
2080ti 4k 50-64fps

battlefield 5 ultra
1660ti 1080p 94-104fps
1660ti 1440p 67-80fps
2080ti 4k 67-86fps

etc. I did copy-paste benchmarks about three games, to make my example understandable.
but here is a comparison link so you can compare your heart out if you like.


now, if microsoft was trying to push lockhart as a ...4k machine, there would be ....problems :messenger_tears_of_joy: too many to list.
but they are not. they are pushing it as a console for HALF or a QUARTER of that resolution, with same CPU and I/O to their 4k machine.
Click to expand...


This is what I'm telling you, this basically makes the XSX a resolution box, because games are made to be 1440P in XSS and the only thing XSX can do now is going to 4K...

In the future PS5 can allow their first studios to go below 4K to 1800P or 1440P, but use that extra power in gameplay experience, AI, and any sort of calculation where the CPU can be limited (2-3 years ahead)...

You can't do that on XSX because going below 4K in XSX already puts XSS in a 900P scenario...
 
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C

CigiSilk

Neo Member
megreotsugua said:
IMO it would be wise for Sony to position the standard edition against XsS. $399 blu-ray edition instead of the digital edition.

For sure, xss will sell better between the two xbox and it will go toe to toe with the cheaper playstation. The narrative that disc works on playstation 5 and that you can share games as usual will be a good word of mouth in favor of PS5.
Click to expand...
Sony does not have the bankroll to loose that kind of money. That coming and Ssd, and size does not come cheap.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
jose4gg said:
This is what I'm telling you, this basically makes the XSX a resolution box, because games are made to be 1440P in XSS and the only thing XSX can do now is going to 4K...

In the future PS5 can allow their first studios to go below 4K to 1800P or 1440P, but use that extra power in gameplay experience, AI, and any sort of calculation where the CPU can be limited (2-3 years ahead)...

You can't do that on XSX because going below 4K in XSX already puts XSS in a 900P scenario...
Click to expand...
I guarantee that by 2025, some GPU intensive games on XSS will be using dynamic resolutions averaging below 1080p just to be able to run the same game as the big boys.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
jose4gg said:
And this is the part where developers start to feel bad about having to deal with such cases...
Click to expand...
Exactly. The weakest system sets the baseline for the entire generation of multi-platform games.

Xbox knows this and doesn't care. They held back this entire generation with the Xbox One and they will do it again. Its their only hope to sell Game Pass.

Limiting games is the trade off to keep entry costs low on their hardware. And all they care about is GP revenue. Hence the cross gen and PC games. And Series S.

They're not trying to make cutting edge games that push the medium forward. They just want to stay in business.

Just look at Craig and its obvious what they intend for next gen gaming.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Banned
CigiSilk said:
Sony does not have the bankroll to loose that kind of money. That coming and Ssd, and size does not come cheap.
Click to expand...

Jesus. It’s like people just hear an opinion from someone, and don’t even bother to check whether it’s true or not, and just repeat it.

Do you know that PlayStation’s profits exceeded XBox’s entire revenue last quarter?

No. Of course you didn’t.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
One thing that occurred to me, is that the series S price now limits what Nvidia can charge for the secondary card (RTX IO NIC with onboard SSD) because if they charge more than $299 people will point out that the exact same type of solutions is in the XsS and that entire console only costs that much.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
zaitsu said:
Sony of the richest company in the world with huge cash in hand and playstation is their most important branch.
What the fuck youre talking about.
Click to expand...
Sony are not the richest company in the world man. Apple or Amazon could buy Sony and Nintendo with their cash on hand and still have much more leftover.
 
SportsFan581

SportsFan581

Member
kyliethicc said:
I guarantee that by 2025, some GPU intensive games on XSS will be using dynamic resolutions averaging below 1080p just to be able to run the same game as the big boys.
Click to expand...

As the XSX target moves down, so will the XSS target. Seems reasonable. It all depends on how much the end user can notice the difference. Look at what Sony pulled off late with a 2TF (and an old an inefficient 2TF at that PS4), we'll see what tricks are in play by 2025.
 
TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
ArcaneNLSC said:
exactly we knew about it since the day Phil said the following:


The fact too that most if not technically all the leaks came from Microsoft themselves with their marketing and packaging
Click to expand...

Do I have to remind you that even a just few months ago, there were all these "insiders" and articles saying "there is no lockhart/ lockhart was canned" etc?
 
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Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
FunkMiller said:
Jesus. It’s like people just hear an opinion from someone, and don’t even bother to check whether it’s true or not, and just repeat it.

Do you know that PlayStation’s profits exceeded XBox’s entire revenue last quarter?

No. Of course you didn’t.
Click to expand...
Yeah, exactly... they could subsidize every console they sell by 100 dollars and still turn a decent profit.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Banned
kyliethicc said:
Exactly. The weakest system sets the baseline for the entire generation of multi-platform games.

Xbox knows this and doesn't care. They held back this entire generation with the Xbox One and they will do it again. Its their only hope to sell Game Pass.

Limiting games is the trade off to keep entry costs low on their hardware. And all they care about is GP revenue. Hence the cross gen and PC games. And Series S.

They're not trying to make cutting edge games that push the medium forward. They just want to stay in business.

Just look at Craig and its obvious what they intend for next gen gaming.
Click to expand...

And with any luck the overall consumer base will punish them for it. Games should always push innovation, and make every effort to be fresh and original. That’s the only way good games get made.

Fuck this move towards subscription based live service games that are made for the lowest common denominator - and fuck anyone who supports it.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
DaGwaphics said:
As the XSX target moves down, so will the XSS target. Seems reasonable. It all depends on how much the end user can notice the difference. Look at what Sony pulled off late with a 2TF (and an old an inefficient 2TF at that PS4), we'll see what tricks are in play by 2025.
Click to expand...
Sure if Microsoft had a studio like Naughty Dog and let them make a game for just 1 console. Won't happen.
Every Xbox Studios game will support PCs (various specs) and will support Series S/X.

By 2025, Xbox will have launched at least 2 new consoles to replace the S/X. Updated refreshes. All playing "Xbox" games.
So a 2025 Xbox 1st party game will need to support as many as 4 consoles and PCs. Not gonna be possible to optimize.

Unlike Sony's 1 system approach. Why do you think Naughty Dog barely even support the PS4 Pro?
Its just the exact same game but at 1440 instead of 1080. Thats it. They don't want multiple systems to have to design for.
 
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Agnostic2020

Agnostic2020

Member
Xss issue is not TF imo. Xss will have issue with destruction for next gen games . The ram for gpu is 4 gb , 3.5 gb for cpu and general tasks and 2.5 gb for os. Ps4 had 3.5 gb ram fro gpu. So xss has almost same amount of ram allocated to gpu as ps4. Good luck rendering next gen destruction.
 
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ArcaneNLSC

ArcaneNLSC

Member
Agnostic2020 said:
Xss issue is not TF imo. Xss will have issue with destruction for next gen games . The ram for gpu is 4 gb , 3.5 gb for cpu and general tasks and 2.5 gb for os. Ps4 had 3.5 gb ram fro gpu. So xss has almost same amount of ram allocated to gpu as ps4. Good luck rendering next gen destruction.
Click to expand...


So basically a history repeat of what was expected from Crackdown 3 vs reality
 
jose4gg

jose4gg

Member
Agnostic2020 said:
Xss issue is not TF imo. Xss will have issue with destruction for next gen games . The ram for gpu is 4 gb , 3.5 gb for cpu and general tasks and 2.5 gb for os. Ps4 had 3.5 gb ram fro gpu. So xss has almost same amount of ram allocated to gpu as ps4. Good luck rendering next gen destruction.
Click to expand...

I don't even want to talk about that RAM...

This generation, RAM didn't increase the way it used to, but I hope that having worse textures and worse LOD can make it out...

I don't want XSS to fail because this won't just affect XSX, this could easily affect PS5 just like OG Xbox did with Ubisoft games...
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Bryank75 said:
Yeah, exactly... they could subsidize every console they sell by 100 dollars and still turn a decent profit.
Click to expand...
So I guess if they're optimum tiny profit price is about $500, $450 tiny loss, then are they better to subsidize the first 10m units until costs change - but with mostly customers that aren't too price sensitive? Or bolster the offering with additional things- GT7 packed in, free PSVR2 or free high-end Sony headphones, etc for Tempest showcase - so that they can charge more ($600-$850) and then de-bundle for the next 10m units and sell at $299 with a smaller loss for the next 5m units?

Personally, I think Sony should bundle PSVR2 maybe with a view to go for break-even price (my guess around $600-$650)
 
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Blue Spring

Blue Spring

Read my tears about xbox here --->
kyliethicc said:
Exactly. The weakest system sets the baseline for the entire generation of multi-platform games.
Click to expand...
Xbox is not popular enough to set the baseline. Developers also dont want to be shakled by it and have their games look like shit compared to PS5 exclusives.
I can see developers doing quick and dirty ports.
 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
jose4gg said:
I don't even want to talk about that RAM...

This generation, RAM didn't increase the way we use to, but I hope that having worse textures and worse LOD can make it out...

I don't want XSS to fail because this won't just affect XSX, this could easily affect PS5 just like OG Xbox did with Ubisoft games...
Click to expand...
Ideal scenario is Series S flops so hard and so fast that they drop support for it and make the Series X the baseline.
 
Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
PaintTinJr said:
So I guess if they're optimum tiny profit price is about $500, $450 tiny loss, then are they better to subsidize the first 10 units until costs change - but with mostly customers that aren't too price sensitive? Or bolster the offering with additional things- GT7 packed in, free PSVR2 or free high-end Sony headphones, etc for Tempest showcase - so that they can charge more ($600-$850) and then de-bundle for the next 10m units and sell at $299 with a smaller loss for the next 5m units?

Personally, I think Sony should bundle PSVR2 maybe with a view to go for break-even price (my guess around $600-$650)
Click to expand...
IMO they should just sell by unit, people will get Astrobot free anyway and a load of games upgraded for free.
Try and get the price to 400 for at least one unit (Digital) and 450 - 500 for the disc one.

PSVR2 won't be out yet, so that can't happen and I wouldn't bundle the old version cause many will not want it.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
zaitsu said:
There should be one of the richest.
Click to expand...

"American companies are sitting on piles of cash, frustrating investors and leading some on Wall Street to wonder why they aren’t spending.

Microsoft currently has the largest cash pile at $136.6 billion as of last quarter, according to estimates from FactSet. Berkshire Hathaway, Alphabet and Apple occupy the other top spots, with $128.2 billion, $121.2 billion, and $100.6 billion, respectively.

Facebook, Amazon, Ford, Oracle, Cisco and Bristol-Myers round out the rest of the top 10 list. These figures include the company’s cash balance as well as its short-term investments such as bonds."

www.cnbc.com

Here are the 10 companies with the most cash on hand

Several companies, including Microsoft, Berkshire Hathaway, Alphabet and Apple are sitting on more than $100 billion dollars of cash, which is leading some on Wall Street to question why America's largest companies aren't spending.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

And by market cap, Sony are nowhere near the highest valued companies.
They are obviously a giant and rich corporation, though.
 
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zaitsu

zaitsu

Banned
XsS is cheaper than switch 😁😉🙃
3ylVdad.jpg
 
ArcaneNLSC

ArcaneNLSC

Member
kyliethicc said:
Ideal scenario is Series S flops so hard and so fast that they drop support for it and make the Series X the baseline.
Click to expand...


What I worry what could happen is in the 1st 2 years in particular is that the Series S outsells the Series X because some casuals may not see a true benefit for buying a Series X at retail if their major 1st party games are coming 2022 and beyond by what we've seen thus far and given Halo didn't look "next gen enough" to fork out that extra bit more could force MS to really price drop the Series X sooner than expected or that the Series S just becomes the standard they go with in the end. MS really did shoot themselves in the ass and foot at the same time with this misstep of not having a polished and next gen looking Halo and other games so far behind in development or waiting for Unreal V.
 
zaitsu

zaitsu

Banned
kyliethicc said:
"American companies are sitting on piles of cash, frustrating investors and leading some on Wall Street to wonder why they aren’t spending.

Microsoft currently has the largest cash pile at $136.6 billion as of last quarter, according to estimates from FactSet. Berkshire Hathaway, Alphabet and Apple occupy the other top spots, with $128.2 billion, $121.2 billion, and $100.6 billion, respectively.

Facebook, Amazon, Ford, Oracle, Cisco and Bristol-Myers round out the rest of the top 10 list. These figures include the company’s cash balance as well as its short-term investments such as bonds."

www.cnbc.com

Here are the 10 companies with the most cash on hand

Several companies, including Microsoft, Berkshire Hathaway, Alphabet and Apple are sitting on more than $100 billion dollars of cash, which is leading some on Wall Street to question why America's largest companies aren't spending.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

And by market cap, Sony are nowhere near the highest valued companies.
They are obviously a giant and rich corporation, though.
Click to expand...
Still i think Sony with over 30B on hand is doing just fine
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Blue Spring said:
Xbox is not popular enough to set the baseline. Developers also dont want to be shakled by it and have their games look like shit compared to PS5 exclusives.
I can see developers doing quick and dirty ports.
Click to expand...
The issue going forward for next gen is 3rd party devs will have 2 options:

1. design an exclusive game around the PS5 I/O, but be unable to port it to Xbox/PC.
2. cut down the game design to work on Xbox/PC and go multi-platorm.

Most will pick the 2nd option. Only some true PS5 exclusives won't be held back.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Bryank75 said:
IMO they should just sell by unit, people will get Astrobot free anyway and a load of games upgraded for free.
Try and get the price to 400 for at least one unit (Digital) and 450 - 500 for the disc one.

PSVR2 won't be out yet, so that can't happen and I wouldn't bundle the old version cause many will not want it.
Click to expand...
My view is that price perception might set in the minds early for the budget crowd, so if you say our top tier console is also $299, but we've only got stock for those buying it with PSVR2 + GT7 bundled, then at the unbundling the console price officially never changed, and still undercut the XsX and matched the XsS.

It would also give them the chance to make PSVR2 part of the platform - if the offering was seeing lower budget gamers pass on XsS/XsX and wait for a PS5 + PVSR as a pack in at $400-$450.

I take your point about PSVR2 not being ready, but I think if it isn't ready, then PlayStation is abandoning VR for next-gen, because I think VR users need transitioned quickly to keep the PSVR software market viable.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
kyliethicc said:
I guarantee that by 2025, some GPU intensive games on XSS will be using dynamic resolutions averaging below 1080p just to be able to run the same game as the big boys.
Click to expand...

2025? You sure it'll be that long?

Agnostic2020 said:
Xss issue is not TF imo. Xss will have issue with destruction for next gen games . The ram for gpu is 4 gb , 3.5 gb for cpu and general tasks and 2.5 gb for os. Ps4 had 3.5 gb ram fro gpu. So xss has almost same amount of ram allocated to gpu as ps4. Good luck rendering next gen destruction.
Click to expand...

You sure the RAM splits work this way?

Agnostic2020 said:
It won't. Most xbox players will play on a 3.97 tf console next gen and thats sad
Click to expand...

I doubt it. I think more than half of gamers will buy the XSX, instead of the XSS.
 
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