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[3liteDragon]

You need high bandwidth for true 4K and raytracing. Even the 2080 Ti can be bandwidth starved in today's games. Imagine not having dedicated raytracing cores like tensor cores, and having less bandwidth, trying to achieve the same. No amount of SSD can change this, as you need to render that data.

RDNA 2 is more power efficient than Turing and can push higher clocks while consuming way less power than a 2080 Ti while also being built on a superior process node (12 nm vs. 7 nm), so I’m not surprised to see PS5 handling ray-tracing at native 4K better than a 2080 Ti.

The R&C demo ran at native 4K with ray-traced reflections, which even took me by surprise as someone who at first really didn’t have any faith in ray-tracing on consoles. We saw Spider-Man: MM running at native 4K with ray-traced reflections as well, if developers are starting to use ray-tracing like this this early, imagine how this feature’s gonna be used when we get improved BVH data structures and more advanced de-noising algorithms down the line.

 

[devilNprada]

With an attractive price of 300$, when the public sees next gen games running on Series S. They won't give a penny's worth of attention to FUD about SSD and TF here.

Amen brother... and with a $100 price drop I can put one in every room.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Timestamped:


Done 8GB/s minimum and up to 20GB/s.
Now enlighten us on why is this data so important to you again and what's your point?

That's what is capable of. I'm specifically asking you about r&c or ue5? I'm beginning to think you don't understand my question or you're being intentionally dense. I'm not asking what ps5 is capable under perfect circumstances, but more so r&c or ue5 specifically. There were rumors that ue5 used low speeds to run, which is why I'm genuinely curious.

RDNA 2 is more power efficient than Turing and can push higher clocks while consuming way less power than a 2080 Ti while also being built on a superior process node (12 nm vs. 7 nm), so I’m not surprised to see PS5 handling ray-tracing at native 4K better than a 2080 Ti.

The R&C demo ran at native 4K with ray-traced reflections, which even took me by surprise as someone who at first really didn’t have any faith in ray-tracing on consoles. We saw Spider-Man: MM running at native 4K with ray-traced reflections as well, if developers are starting to use ray-tracing like this this early, imagine how this feature’s gonna be used when we get improved BVH data structures and more advanced de-noising algorithms down the line.

That's cool to hear! I have been hoping to see AMD become competition for Nvidia again, as it's been many years. I guess we will see if that is true when RDNA 2 gpu's release. They've been awfully quiet, which is why it's kinda surprising as well as worrying.

 

[megreotsugua]

Sony does not have the bankroll to loose that kind of money. That coming and Ssd, and size does not come cheap.

People are sure Sony can do $399 DE. The difference between DE and PE is $20.

 

[Faithless83]

That's what is capable of. I'm specifically asking you about r&c or ue5? I'm beginning to think you don't understand my question or you're being intentionally dense. I'm not asking what ps5 is capable under perfect circumstances, but more so r&c or ue5 specifically. There were rumors that ue5 used low speeds to run, which is why I'm genuinely curious.


That's cool to hear! I have been hoping to see AMD become completion for Nvidia again, as it's been many years. I guess we will see if that is true when RDNA 2 gpu's release. They've been awfully quite, which is why it's kinda suppressing as well as worrying.

Think man, if the MINIMUM is 8GB/s use as base. Again why are you asking this? If there is hard data proving it's 8, what will you do with it? That's what I'm asking.

Why would it use low speeds to load 8k textures in the first place? What is a tech demo for if it's not using the hardware fully?

 

[JerryinSoCal]

People are sure Sony can do $399 DE. The difference between DE and PE is $20.

DE will bring in a lot more money from software sales over time, they'll be making more than double what they do for each game sold on the standard console because every sale will be through the PlayStation store, it's not just about the smaller cost which is also a little more than $20 because there will be less materials used for the casing, lighter shipping weight per unit etc, that won't make a huge difference but it adds something else to the savings.

 

[quest]

People are sure Sony can do $399 DE. The difference between DE and PE is $20.

I'm sure they can but it is burning money when they sell out at 449 or 499. I see no point in such a low price for a market leader with such mind share with no real competition. The only thing 399 would serve is warrior points on boards. If Sony was so concerned about price the 900 year old base ps4 would not still be 299.99 ffs.

DE will bring in a lot more money from software sales over time, they'll be making more than double what they do for each game sold on the standard console because every sale will be through the PlayStation store, it's not just about the smaller cost which is also a little more than $20 because there will be less materials used for the casing, lighter shipping weight per unit etc, that won't make a huge difference but it adds something else to the savings.

It is about 8 more dollars a game so that extra 50 is 7 games to get a head that is a lot. That is the reason you did not see the big price difference on the all digital xbox. People buying digital are doing it regardless of a 50 or 100 dollar savings.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Enough with this clown already.

 

[Faithless83]

I'm sure they can but it is burning money when they sell out at 449 or 499. I see no point in such a low price for a market leader with such mind share with no real competition. The only thing 399 would serve is warrior points on boards. If Sony was so concerned about price the 900 year old base ps4 would not still be 299.99 ffs.

It's about the installed base. PS4 could have been 499 at launch, but $100 is a determine factor on a roughly speaking "a toy".
The more the installed base grows, the harder it is for devs to either ignore it or not use as base for development.

Look at the switch for reference.

That said, SSD will play a big factor this time, as the competition is not even close to matching its speeds. My bet is that alone will bring exclusives as "this game would not have been possible anywhere else".

"Bigger installed base, more exclusives" loop.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Think man, if the MINIMUM is 8GB/s use as base. Again why are you asking this? If there is hard data proving it's 8, what will you do with it? That's what I'm asking.

Why would it use low speeds to load 8k textures in the first place? What is a tech demo for if it's not using the hardware fully?

Minimum doesn't equal maximum. Do you realize that just because a SSD, car, plane, ram, cpu, gpu, etc has a MAX speed or MINIMUM speed, doesn't mean that is what it runs at. Think about it for a second. Looking at the corner of a room is going to be different data requirements than looking at a vast city.

Do you have any links of r&c or ue5 yet?

 

[Barakov]

People are sure Sony can do $399 DE. The difference between DE and PE is $20.

 

[ResilientBanana]

RDNA 2 is more power efficient than Turing and can push higher clocks while consuming way less power than a 2080 Ti while also being built on a superior process node (12 nm vs. 7 nm), so I’m not surprised to see PS5 handling ray-tracing at native 4K better than a 2080 Ti.

The R&C demo ran at native 4K with ray-traced reflections, which even took me by surprise as someone who at first really didn’t have any faith in ray-tracing on consoles. We saw Spider-Man: MM running at native 4K with ray-traced reflections as well, if developers are starting to use ray-tracing like this this early, imagine how this feature’s gonna be used when we get improved BVH data structures and more advanced de-noising algorithms down the line.

I would hope RDNA2 is better than Turing. It came out a year later or more.

 

[quest]

It's about the installed base. PS4 could be 499 at launch, but $100 is a determine factor on a roughly speking "a toy".
The more the installed base grows, the harder it is for devs to either ignore it or not use as base for development.

Look at the switch for reference.

Sony has a lot more mindshare now. If both prices sell out what is the difference in user base lol. It amazes me how confident you guy talk trash then begging Sony to under cut Microsoft like you have zero confidence in the product. The PS5 sells out for a long time at the prices i listed going cheap is pissing money away for message board points.

 

[megreotsugua]

I'm sure they can but it is burning money when they sell out at 449 or 499. I see no point in such a low price for a market leader with such mind share with no real competition. The only thing 399 would serve is warrior points on boards. If Sony was so concerned about price the 900 year old base ps4 would not still be 299.99 ffs.


It is about 8 more dollars a game so that extra 50 is 7 games to get a head that is a lot. That is the reason you did not see the big price difference on the all digital xbox. People buying digital are doing it regardless of a 50 or 100 dollar savings.

So what's your bet on the pricing?

 

[Faithless83]

Minimum doesn't equal maximum. Do you realize that just because a SSD, car, plane, ram, cpu, gpu, etc has a MAX speed or MINIMUM speed, doesn't mean that is what it runs at. Think about it for a second. Looking at the corner of a room is going to be different data requirements than looking at a vast city.

Do you have any links of r&c or ue5 yet?

I'm pointing you towards the minimum and yet you still want the numbers, what for?
"do you have the numbers? But do you have it?" is accomplishing what?

For the sake of replies? Are you aiming for a post count achievement?
Good luck with that, bro.

 

[Faithless83]

Sony has a lot more mindshare now. If both prices sell out what is the difference in user base lol. It amazes me how confident you guy talk trash then begging Sony to under cut Microsoft like you have zero confidence in the product. The PS5 sells out for a long time at the prices i listed going cheap is pissing money away for message board points.

It's about bringing more people in. If your console is priced well enough, PSNOW providing a competition to gamepass, it will make more people join the boat that wasn't in it in the first place.

Price is not for the people who already wanted one, those will buy the console anyway. It's for the ones who are on the fence/MS side.

 

[onesvenus]

And I won't even mention the jump this will bring to VR in the future.

Which are?

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I'm pointing you towards the minimum and yet you still want the numbers, what for?
"do you have the numbers? But do you have it?" is accomplishing what?

For the sake of replies? Are you aiming for a post count achievement?
Good luck with that, bro.

So you don't have the numbers, and you are accusing the ps5 of being outdated before it even releases. Obviously they aren't running games at max throughput already, or XSX and PC would make it obsolete in the next year or so, at the least. That why your claims are inaccurate to say the least. If you don't know the numbers, just say that. I have no problem admitting I don't have a clue of the throughput speeds, because I simply don't know.

 

[Faithless83]

So you don't have the numbers, and you are accusing the ps5 of being outdated before it even releases. Obviously they aren't running games at max throughput already, or XSX and PC would make it obsolete in the next year or so, at the least. That why your claims are inaccurate to say the least. If you don't know the numbers, just say that. I have no problem admitting I don't have a clue of the throughput speeds, because I simply don't know.

It's known already, I even posted a screenshot and timestamped a video of it. Are you nuts?

"but I read a rumor that the UE5 demo was using slower speeds"
Why?
"I don't know man, makes sense to not use the hardware fully in a tech demo."

I told you the minimum for you to use it as a base. I'm not talking about graphics, I'm talking about SSD speeds. Why would they use a slower speed in exclusive software? How would PC and XSX make it obsolete if they can't match it?

You failed to answer any of my questions so far, yet somehow you think you are arguing something here.

Do you even read what you are posting prior to press reply?

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I'm sure they can but it is burning money when they sell out at 449 or 499. I see no point in such a low price for a market leader with such mind share with no real competition. The only thing 399 would serve is warrior points on boards. If Sony was so concerned about price the 900 year old base ps4 would not still be 299.99 ffs.


It is about 8 more dollars a game so that extra 50 is 7 games to get a head that is a lot. That is the reason you did not see the big price difference on the all digital xbox. People buying digital are doing it regardless of a 50 or 100 dollar savings.

Xbox has gamepass which complicates the math, they can't count on digital game sales to bring in more money especially from first party, those games will be bringing in less than they would otherwise.

Also you are talking about the lifetime of the machine, EVERY game will be sold through PSN, people who have gone all digital are likely people who buy the most games so that money is made up quickly and from then on every title they sell brings in significantly more money. I'm sure you are aware in the last quarter Sony reported 70% of PS4 games sold were digital, there is a lot of incentive for them to try to get as many people over to digital as possible.

You also have to figure in making a second model to only save $20-$50 for the consumer really isn't worth the trouble. The digital xbox was more than likely just an experiment, it came in late in the generation and has already been phased out and will be replaced by another digital console.

I'm not saying it'll be $399 for sure but it makes a lot of sense to do that.

 

[Faithless83]

Which are?

Render only what the eye can see is the basis of VR, but limited to the I/O we have available today. If this constraint is removed by fast I/O, the jump will be significant. If we add eye tracking to the equation (with FOVeated Rendering), we can push this even further.

Timestamped:

 

[bitbydeath]

There were rumors that ue5 used low speeds to run, which is why I'm genuinely curious.

You’re thinking of the GPU not the SSD.

“I can say that the GPU time spent rendering geometry in our UE5 demo is similar to the geometry rendering budget for Fortnite running at 60fps on consoles.”

That amazing UE5 tech demo was only as GPU-intensive as Fortnite

And this is seriously good news for the future of gaming performance

www.pcgamesn.com

 

[Felessan]

PC games will not be able to require a PCIe Gen4x4 M.2 SSD anytime soon. Therefore if the min required spec for a drive is a SATA SSD at say 500 MB/s read speeds, that sets the baseline for how the game can be designed for the PC market.

Unless a PC game can be require to have a 5-6 GB/s PCIe Gen4x4 SSD, then the baseline I/O spec the game is built around will be below the PS5's SSD. Slower. This affects how the game is made.

Therefore if Guerrilla Games were to reboot SOCOM for PS5 but also for PC, they would need to consider how many, how wide of an audience on PC they would like to target. Most PC users do not have fast NVMe SSDs.

This sort of thinking implies that PC stands on equal ground with consoles when things are planned for the game.
But it's not for many, many games where PC version is downport of console version, straight to backcatalog. Support ceased from day1, even if game has serious issues, and the whole purpose of porting is to gather money from PCMR Steam library collectors. And it's perfectly reasonable business choice, because fresh release sales on PC are bad, but backcatalog brings hefty sums in the long run.
"It doesn't work on your PC - turn settings to ultra-low or get better hardware. If there is no - just wait till it appears somewhere in future" - universal answer to brute force everything on PC.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

What did it say?

 

[The_Observer]

I thought there was some news or rumor because of the many new posts only to see BullshitVeteran industry clown here again shitting. Please guys, don't respond to him. He is just trolling as his beloved pc can't provide him enough fun.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Timestamped:


Done 8GB/s minimum and up to 20GB/s.
Now enlighten us on why is this data so important to you again and what's your point?

I am still not sure why is this so hard to comprehend?

 

[onQ123]

?

 

[Defrop]

Aarongreenberg
majornelson
Colteastwood
Dealer_Gaming
Timdog

Dreamteam

 

[onesvenus]

Render only what the eye can see is the basis of VR, but limited to the I/O we have available today.

Rendering only what the camera (or the eye in VR) can see is the basis of all game engines.

If you are talking about foveated rendering, data still needs to be rendered (although in lower resolution)

I can't see how anything that you said is improved by faster I/O

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Rendering only what the camera (or the eye in VR) can see is the basis of all game engines.

If you are talking about foveated rendering, data still needs to be rendered (although in lower resolution)

I can't see how anything that you said is improved by faster I/O

Faster I/O makes it so you can load higher quality textures and make your RAM use much more efficient. That's the basis of the improvement. De-duplicating assets is another advantage since you have near instant access to any data. Virtually no load times too, allowing games to do things we couldn't do before (like flying through a game world at high speed).

Hopefully you can see now some of the advantages.

 

[HAL-01]

Rendering only what the camera (or the eye in VR) can see is the basis of all game engines.

If you are talking about foveated rendering, data still needs to be rendered (although in lower resolution)

I can't see how anything that you said is improved by faster I/O

I believe he’s talking about the REYES approach that UE5 and future In-house engines will use on the ps5, which allows in practical terms close to unlimited ingame geometry detail. Combining foveated rendering with the on-the-fly mesh simplification tech of next gen engines could result in significant performance gains.

 

[xacto]

Aarongreenberg
majornelson
Colteastwood
Dealer_Gaming
Timdog

Dreamteam

Rock bottom.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Aarongreenberg
majornelson
Colteastwood
Dealer_Gaming
Timdog

Dreamteam

 

[ghairat]

So today is the 25th anniversary of the North American release of the PS1. I am expecting some PS5 announcements today

 

[xacto]

So today is the 25th anniversary of the North American release of the PS1. I am expecting some PS5 announcements today

No, you're not.

There is no spoon.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

So today is the 25th anniversary of the North American release of the PS1. I am expecting some PS5 announcements today

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

You’re thinking of the GPU not the SSD.

That amazing UE5 tech demo was only as GPU-intensive as Fortnite

And this is seriously good news for the future of gaming performance

www.pcgamesn.com

I dont know what was meant by "UE5 demo was running at low speeds" as it was shown the best way possible given where the development of the engine was at that time,
but we do know from the concurrent live stream that UE5's engineering team had in China to celebrate the release of that UE5 demo, that the demo that was shown had "I/O transfer needs in the megabytes per second range, and not in gigabytes per second range"

It was discussed very analytically and even explained that when UE5 engine is ready for release, I/O transfer speed needs will be even lower.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

So today is the 25th anniversary of the North American release of the PS1. I am expecting some PS5 announcements today

 

[CrysisFreak]

Guys instead of waiting for PS5 news why don't you just use your time to r3LaX & R3fL3Ct

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I haven’t really heard anything negative about the PS5. A shortage doesn’t mean anything negative. With Covid it raises some roadblocks. Long term shouldn’t be an issue.

As for your Xbox comment I just reported in the last week or so. Devs have said that Velocity Architecture was taking a moment for them to master. Many layers like and onion. That also there has been issues with dev API on PCs emulating some Of some of the features Xbox Series X/S has baked into the APU. Leading to why you haven’t seen a lot of games running on Xbox Series X or why that haven’t ran while in demos on PC emulating Xbox Series X. For example Halo Infinite.

Once again. For the record. I don’t get into Fanboy wars or console warrior mentality. I just share what I’m told second hand. As you can see I own all consoles and game on all consoles and PC. Because I’m a gamer. I love to play games!

Those cables

 

[LiquidRex]

Who would have preferred this design for the Xbox Series S

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Guys instead of waiting for PS5 news why don't you just use your time to r3LaX & R3fL3Ct

 

[DeeDogg_]

Who would have preferred this design for the Xbox Series S

Not my home which would burn down if this were the actual console

 

[onesvenus]

Hopefully you can see now some of the advantages now.

He was talking specifically about VR and that what I was asking

I believe he’s talking about the REYES approach that UE5 and future In-house engines will use on the ps5, which allows in practical terms close to unlimited ingame geometry detail. Combining foveated rendering with the on-the-fly mesh simplification tech of next gen engines could result in significant performance gains.

UE5 was running at 30fps. That doesn't seem really suitable for VR.

Agree on the mesh simplification combined with foveated rendering but that's not really a use of fast I/O, which was what he was referring to

 

[hemo memo]

So today is the 25th anniversary of the North American release of the PS1. I am expecting some PS5 announcements today

They have already said not to expect news. Why are you doing this to yourselves?

 

[ghairat]

They have already said not to expect news. Why are you doing this to yourselves?

Source where they explicitly said that to not expect any news?

 

[Vae_Victis]

PlayStation is not doing anything this week, too much stuff already (CoD today, Ubisoft tomorrow, Xbox probably confirming the XSX price that everybody already reported on anyway).

I guess in hindsight the VR week makes a lot more sense, if they knew Microsoft was going to let it all out this week in addition to CoD and Ubisoft. I think it's reasonable to expect some PS5 event or major announcement next week.

 

[hemo memo]

Source where they explicitly said that to not expect any news?

PS VR spotlight kicks off today

This week sees new reveals and updates on upcoming games, as well as a VR-focused PS Store promotion .

blog.playstation.com

Hey all. Over the next few days, we’re going to spotlight some upcoming games coming to PlayStation VR, including some announcements and updates for previously revealed PS VR titles.

It kicks off today at 3pm BST / 4pm CEST / 7am PST, and we’ll have further updates to share each day at the same time through to Friday.

And as mentioned, this is all about the games. So to manage expectations, there’ll be no PS5-related news.

 

[Vae_Victis]

Source where they explicitly said that to not expect any news?

Published Monday:

PS VR spotlight kicks off today

This week sees new reveals and updates on upcoming games, as well as a VR-focused PS Store promotion .

blog.playstation.com

Hey all. Over the next few days, we’re going to spotlight some upcoming games coming to PlayStation VR, including some announcements and updates for previously revealed PS VR titles.

It kicks off today at 3pm BST / 4pm CEST / 7am PST, and we’ll have further updates to share each day at the same time through to Friday.

And as mentioned, this is all about the games. So to manage expectations, there’ll be no PS5-related news.

 

[HAL-01]

He was talking specifically about VR and that what I was asking


UE5 was running at 30fps. That doesn't seem really suitable for VR.

Agree on the mesh simplification combined with foveated rendering but that's not really a use of fast I/O, which was what he was referring to

The UE team aims to achieve 60fps on that same demo in the UE5 release build, combined with PSVR2's asynchronous reprojection V2 thats prime for VR applications. The whole REYES approach is enabled by fast I/O, specially in VR where geometry LOD is much more apparent than in a regular 3rd or 1st person camera.