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[GHG]

Teraflops wars?

 

[Black_Stride]

It's not going to be 16-20 TFLOP range. If that is the case, it's going to be dead on arrival. Even if Sony, and MS begged AMD to have TFLOP in that range, they would not be able to due to the nature of RDNA 3 microarchitecture with MCM design.

Expect a reasonable 60 TFLOP-100 TFLOP range. Most likely at the lower to mid-range between 60 and 100 tflop

60 to 100 TFLOPs for the consoles?
Mate that would rival the biggest RDNA3 chip....and we already know RDNA3 has an increased TDP over RDNA2.

If we assume the RX7700XT is around 30 - 40TFLOPs.
A cut down version of that counting the need for thermals it wouldnt be unreasonable to assume the consoles based on it would be in the 20 - 30TFLOP range.
Maybe less if the higher TDP of RDNA3 would require the consoles even further cutdown versus the 7700XT.

 

[sendit]

Atleast 5

 

[Azurro]

What is the point for these useless models, when the current ones have production shortages?

It's the perfect time to capture the market that wants to get the highest performance while continuing to serve the mass market. You basically get them to spend again and simultaneously expand your userbase, since that older PS5 is going to get sold to someone else.

Nothing but positives. I want something above 20TF at least, with stronger RT capabilities.

 

[kingfey]

It's the perfect time to capture the market that wants to get the highest performance while continuing to serve the mass market. You basically get them to spend again and simultaneously expand your userbase, since that older PS5 is going to get sold to someone else.

Nothing but positives. I want a 20Teraflop version of the PS5 at least, with stronger RT capabilities.

That means nothing, if the devs can't even utilize the current hardwares.

 

[Azurro]

That means nothing, if the devs can't even utilize the current hardwares.

Why do you think that is the case? Engines are scalable and the Series S is the fucking baseline for multiplatform games (thanks MS) and the PS5 for Sony exclusives. The games would simply run even better and have better visuals on the Pro consoles.

 

[AncientOrigin]

It's not going to be 16-20 TFLOP range. If that is the case, it's going to be dead on arrival. Even if Sony, and MS begged AMD to have TFLOP in that range, they would not be able to due to the nature of RDNA 3 microarchitecture with MCM design.

Expect a reasonable 60 TFLOP-100 TFLOP range. Most likely at the lower to mid-range between 60 and 100 tflop

No not gone happen.First way to power hungry now to much heat of course they could do it but way to expensive.And most important in a range of 60-100 the next generation PlayStation and Xbox would barley move about that.The nodes shrink are not there and very expensive the 60-100 graphics cards on PC are rumored to be between 400-600 watt only the cards.When it’s time for ps6 AMD barley will have got the wattage down from these cards for a console.The next PlayStation comes around 2026-27 latest 28 that’s only 3-4 left.the pro versions if they comes will be around 15-25 with better raytracing capabilities.The PS 6 will probably not hit 80 TFlops so you will never get a pro this early on these nodes with 60-100 not for 800 Dollars

 

[sinnergy]

Ps5 pro 19TF / Series X pro 30TF.

 

[hoplie]

PS4 to PS4Pro was about double the TF, but it was on the lower side of performance advantage. A PS5 Pro should be a bit more powerful than 2x PS5, so my guess would be about 25 - 30 TF. Better upscaling tech and RT capabilities are a must, too.
I expect this generation to last longer than the last one, so would be nice if the Pro consoles are on the upper end of what is reasonable performance wise.
They‘ll probably be based on RDNA3, which means a fall 2023 release sounds possible.
Getting these machines out as soon as possible makes sense, because this way they can use two nodes (7nm and 5nm), instead of one, which could give them a higher output.

 

[Azurro]

Ps5 pro 19TF / Series X pro 30TF.

The PS4 Pro was 4.2 TFs vs the original 1.8. what makes you think the PS5 will only be such a measly jump while the Xbox one will be huge?

 

[ParaSeoul]

Teraflops wars?

For consoles that most likely do not exist as well

 

[MilkyJoe]

According to TCL (Tv maker) PS5 Pro and Xbox Series X/S Pro to drop sometime in 2023 or 2024,

 

[RoadHazard]

About double I would think. Which should hopefully be enough for the same visuals we're already seeing but at 4K60.

 

[Deerock71]

I'm in Camp Sheer Lunacy when you can't even easily buy a PS5 yet. WTH are Sony and/or Microsoft thinking? If anything, talk like this will kill the momentum for the current systems.

 

[nbkicker]

To be honest why?, theres hardly any games out that push the ps5 as developers continue to push games cross generation, so far i think in all my 30+ yrs of gaming the ps5 has been the biggest disappointment for gaming, or it maybe just where the industry is at with constantly bringing remasters etc instead of trying something new

 

[nominedomine]

I think that Sony can get a way with a much simpler upgrade. They could simply start binning the top performing PS5 chips once they move to a new manufacture process and charge a little extra for that. This would allow them to charge a more and make some extra profit while at the same time producing as many units as possible.

The PS4 Pro wouldn't have made sense if they were having a hard time keeping regular PS4 on shelves. The Xbox One X was a better hardware than the PS4 Pro and it did jack shit for MS last gen.

 

[tusharngf]

7700xt means atleast 20-23TF range

 

[nowifenolife]

Maybe Microsoft has already revealed the Pro version, which is the series X?

 

[Elder Legend]

Depends on how bad the green rats want the blue rats to fail is how many flops the PS5 Pro will have have....and vice versa.

On a serious note, no clue. Probably like not much, like a 5 to 6 teraflop increase at max I am thinking? Just a guess.

 

[Haggard]

Because they'll use different chips, therefore more production.

unless you are talking "considerably worse fabrication size" with everything that entails, nope.
There is no additionaly available capacity from the likes of TSMC or Samsung in the 5nm and below space AMD could pull this off with as was repeatedly stated. Everything till 2024 at least is pretty much booked already.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

I'm in Camp Sheer Lunacy when you can't even easily buy a PS5 yet. WTH are Sony and/or Microsoft thinking? If anything, talk like this will kill the momentum for the current systems.

It makes sense for them to release "slim" models with the same performance but more efficient. Sony I don't think would be in any rush to release a Pro model but MS is in a great position to release more powerful hardware. You can get either Xbox console no problem now so MS can start thinking about price drops and more powerful hardware. I've said it many times before but Sony need to be careful because MS can now afford to put out a "Series Z" at a similar price point to the PS5 Disc + Series X. So yeah, Sony might not want to put out a PS5 Pro just yet but they might need to.

The current line up of consoles is:

Switch Lite - £200
Switch - £240-270
Series S - £250
Switch OLED - £310
PS5 Digital - £350
PS5 Disc - £450
Series X - £450

but MS could do something like:

Switch Lite - £200
"New" Series S - £200-230
Switch - £240-270
Switch OLED - £310
"New" Series X - £350
PS5 Digital - £350
PS5 Disc - £450
"Series Z" - £450

So as you can see, Sony would need a PS5 Pro because a potentially >20TF Xbox console for £450 isn't going to make the current PS5 look good value.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Ps5 pro 19TF / Series X pro 30TF.

Sure buddy.

 

[prinz_valium]

There is no technology for a PS5 Pro at any reasonable price below $1k within the next 2 years.

It just won't happen.
Maybe in 6 years we get some GAA Multi chip dies

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

Sure buddy.

30TF is quite possible though. Could be a bit higher than that actually. We could see anything up to about 35TF with these new consoles.

 

[TheRedRiders]

7700 XT would be the Navi 32, right?

Well, current rumor is Navi 31 is 12,288 shader cores, running at 2.5 GHz - 3 GHz. That's 61.4 TF - 73.728 TF.

Navi 32 would be 8192 shader cores; at same clocks that's 40.96 TF - 49.152 TF.

However, we don't know what the power consumption for Navi 31 is yet. They're saying between 375 - 450 watts. Minus RAM that's probably around 355 - 430 watts for the GPU. Theoretically if you cut that down by a third and power consumption went down by a third, it'd bring that down to 236 - 286 (287) watts. Both of those are probably too high for a Pro console, I think Sony and Microsoft would want to try staying within the power profile of the base systems right?

So either they drop the clocks down, or cut down the amount of shader cores, or do a mix of both. So I guess the peak of a cut-down 7700 XT fit for console would be closer to 25 TF - 30 TF. Which is still over 2x what the current systems provide.

That's assuming any of this is true though; I think that TCL dude was just guessing that midgen refreshes would arrive by then following the pattern so far. But do we really need them this gen? Also these systems would be using 6nm & 5nm, the latter being more expensive. There's a good chance the Pro systems would be at least $100 more than $499, partly because I don't think the base systems would be at enough volume to cut the prices yet.



Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Not like Series X and PS5 have been close to tapped yet, anyway. Plus with the way Sony & MS want to expand their ecosystems I don't think Pro models would be priority for them. A streaming box like Apple TV for Microsoft, and a portable (maybe hybrid?) for Sony, would probably be more of a priority for them.



Nah dude, there is no way Pro models will be anywhere near that performance. Even Navi 31 will not reach near 100 TF, the common expectation seems to be around 75 TF and that's with potentially pushing 450 watts of power on 5nm.

We'll probably most definitely get 100+ TF consoles for 10th gen, however.



I mean it is more production, but it's production split between different products. And if they know Pro models only sell to a small segment of the base market anyway, they won't produce enough of them to drive up total order amounts to bring in additional bulk discounts.

The big benefit for Pro models would be Sony & Microsoft selling them at high profit margins.

7700 XT will be Navi 33 from what I understand.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Always down for new hardware. The “pro’s” will launch as current gwn game development ramps up. Good times.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Pro models are stupid.
Next gen I might as well wait for PS6 pro, Super X buttseX box, and skip the weaker launch version.
If this is going to be the norm, i'm pretty much done with launch consoles.

Good for you. That’s why options are always good. If you “wait” you kiss some great games the first 3-4 years, the newer hardware will simply make them run and look better.

 

[Long Far Gone]

I honestly don't see the point of a console refresh, production is so strained they can't even keep up with current demand. Why strain it even more? Why not just design a simple slim version then go all-in on the PS6/NextBox? I read a rumor a while back that PS6 will might be released in 2025, I would prefer that to be true than a souped up PS5.

 

[TLZ]

unless you are talking "considerably worse fabrication size" with everything that entails, nope.
There is no additionaly available capacity from the likes of TSMC or Samsung in the 5nm and below space AMD could pull this off with as was repeatedly stated. Everything till 2024 at least is pretty much booked already.

How do you know? You think they're going to do slim or pro versions using 7nm?

Also, didn't Sony build/started building a new factory to make these not long ago? I'm not sure if it's done or not. That also should help.

 

[blastprocessor]

Minimum double but I'd expect more than going on PS4 Pro. PS5 Pro will probably be using 3nm TSMC. Apple should be using 4nm TSMC for the A16 chip in 2022.

 

[Gusy]

Its rumored that it will be around the same amount of Gamecubes you can fit to occupy the entire volume of the Sony (SIE) Tokyo offices.. Thats gamecubes without the handle, of course..

 

[RoboFu]

7 taco fillings

 

[killatopak]

I would tell you but I can only compute in terms of duck taped gamecubes.

 

[Bojji]

Based on RDNA3 rumors consoles could easily be north of 20TF. But i doubt we will see them in 2024, maybe 2025.

 

[Clear]

Sounds like bullshit to me.

Given the issues with supply over the last few years why would either Sony or MS want to give over production capacity to new SKU's, especially ones that are aimed at a niche high-end market? Particularly when every sign points to a looming global recession?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Not so much where the area of improvement is being focused on

 

[tusharngf]

7700 XT would be the Navi 32, right?

Well, current rumor is Navi 31 is 12,288 shader cores, running at 2.5 GHz - 3 GHz. That's 61.4 TF - 73.728 TF.

Navi 32 would be 8192 shader cores; at same clocks that's 40.96 TF - 49.152 TF.

However, we don't know what the power consumption for Navi 31 is yet. They're saying between 375 - 450 watts. Minus RAM that's probably around 355 - 430 watts for the GPU. Theoretically if you cut that down by a third and power consumption went down by a third, it'd bring that down to 236 - 286 (287) watts. Both of those are probably too high for a Pro console, I think Sony and Microsoft would want to try staying within the power profile of the base systems right?

So either they drop the clocks down, or cut down the amount of shader cores, or do a mix of both. So I guess the peak of a cut-down 7700 XT fit for console would be closer to 25 TF - 30 TF. Which is still over 2x what the current systems provide.

That's assuming any of this is true though; I think that TCL dude was just guessing that midgen refreshes would arrive by then following the pattern so far. But do we really need them this gen? Also these systems would be using 6nm & 5nm, the latter being more expensive. There's a good chance the Pro systems would be at least $100 more than $499, partly because I don't think the base systems would be at enough volume to cut the prices yet.



Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Not like Series X and PS5 have been close to tapped yet, anyway. Plus with the way Sony & MS want to expand their ecosystems I don't think Pro models would be priority for them. A streaming box like Apple TV for Microsoft, and a portable (maybe hybrid?) for Sony, would probably be more of a priority for them.



Nah dude, there is no way Pro models will be anywhere near that performance. Even Navi 31 will not reach near 100 TF, the common expectation seems to be around 75 TF and that's with potentially pushing 450 watts of power on 5nm.

We'll probably most definitely get 100+ TF consoles for 10th gen, however.



I mean it is more production, but it's production split between different products. And if they know Pro models only sell to a small segment of the base market anyway, they won't produce enough of them to drive up total order amounts to bring in additional bulk discounts.

The big benefit for Pro models would be Sony & Microsoft selling them at high profit margins.

given the TDP size this could well fit into 20TF range. Anything above will break the TDP limit.

 

[jaysius]

This is a really dumb thread.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

30TF is quite possible though. Could be a bit higher than that actually. We could see anything up to about 35TF with these new consoles.

The TF difference between PS5 pro and Xbox is complete bullshit. That's what I'm talking about. Makes no sense to see such huge difference.

 

[intbal]

Why would anyone ever need more than one Tara flop?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Teraflops wars?

22.1 and 20.3, I mean 19.2.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I'd say about 22tf for PS5 pro.

 

[LordCBH]

69 terafloppies of rock hard power.

 

[Rayderism]

It just seems ridiculous to focus on refreshes when they haven't even fully let go of last gen yet. And they haven't even fully utilized what they have with current gen yet.

I'm not saying these companies shouldn't be forward looking, of course they are already designing future systems, I'm just saying we shouldn't be hearing about it yet. This gen has barely gotten started. It's far too soon for all this.

 

[lh032]

PS5 pro will have teraexclusives.

 

[saintjules]

What is the point for these useless models, when the current ones have production shortages?

Same question for the Nvidia cards amirite?

 

[Mephisto40]

 

[Black_Stride]

There is no technology for a PS5 Pro at any reasonable price below $1k within the next 2 years.

It just won't happen.
Maybe in 6 years we get some GAA Multi chip dies

RDNA3 consumer chips are coming out this year.
MSRPs expected to be similar to RDNA2.
The comparable 7700XT should be in the region of 40TFLOPs.
If they cut the 7700XT chip down to say 34TFLOPs it could be in a PS5Pro.

 

[Klik]

I assume Q4 2024 release and around 25-30 teraflops.

Also AMD and Nvidia TF aren't same

 

[Kazekage1981]

40 TFLOPS on Holiday 2023 is decent. 40 TFLOPS on Holiday 2024 might be considered too low. What seems too good to be true, or me being full of shit, or impossible NOW is NOT gonna be the same situation 1-2 years down the line