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[The Lunch Legend]

It depends. How many are needed to play cross-gen titles?

Reported for hate speech.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Reported for hate speech.

 

[reezoo]

Anything coming out this or next year would be silly, we have yet to fully transition to 10+ TF machines. Most of the games are still targeting previous gen.

 

[Spitfire098]

Imagine the Ps5 pro has less Tflops than the Xsx pro again? It will be like 2019-2020 gaf all over again.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

PS4 Pro is over 100% more powerful then base PS4 so I expect the same here.

Yes, it's much cheaper to do the butterfly chip again. You don't want to start all over again. So it's 20.5TF if kept at the same clockspeed, or slightly pushed to around 23-25TF max that a smaller node like 5-3nm can offer without presenting too much heat.

Imagine the Ps5 pro has less Tflops than the Xsx pro again? It will be like 2019-2020 gaf all over again.

Even an XSXX with like 30TF won't do shit to PS sales if not backed with proper games.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

60tf hahahaha. I'll shit my pants on purpose if that's the case.

 

[Celcius]

I don’t think we’ll get pro consoles this gen. All we need is to get rid of cross gen.

 

[Damigos]

Considering PS4 Pro and One X has around triple the Tflops i would say around double this time around. 20 Tflops sound possible and will not overreach for the unavoidable PS6/X2 with lets say 40 Tflops.
You heard it here first

 

[Azurro]

nobody is offended, it just makes no sense at all currently. They can barely produce standard consoles as it is.

That's not a good reason to stop business plans.

It's only 3 year's. There's no need for a pro any sooner.

Why not? Most people replace their cellphones within 3 years, it's a good time to try to catch the market segment that is looking for a dedicated higher end performance box. Engines are scalable and much easier to port to different platforms (as long as minimum performance is met) than it was in the days of the PS2 and PS3.

Improvements due to dropping last gen platforms will come regardless, so there's no reason not to bring out a refresh, especially given how much the market has changed.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I think there's a good chance both are cancelled.

 

[Swift_Star]

That's not a good reason to stop business plans.

It's a waste of resources.

 

[Azurro]

It's a waste of resources.

How? You increase the userbase while getting repeat customers. There are literally no downsides.

 

[Joelenheimer]

Until they can play games in 60fps no (not to mention 4k resolution, or at least 1440p without CB), they're not. The sooner you realize this, the better

Fucking LoL. you opted for a over priced console that just came out and has no fucking games and now your dumbass wants a more powerful console? you want non-bastardised 4k? Graphics cards are coming down in price, get a PC and couple that with a switch (for actual exclusives). "The sooner you realize this, the better" JESUS CHRIST LMAO.

 

[MikeM]

Fucking LoL. you opted for a over priced console that just came out and has no fucking games and now your dumbass wants a more powerful console? you want non-bastardised 4k? Graphics cards are coming down in price, get a PC and couple that with a switch (for actual exclusives). "The sooner you realize this, the better" JESUS CHRIST LMAO.

 

[Joelenheimer]

Sorry, some good at nothing good for nothing cock sucking shit-fuck at work had me in the best mood this morning. I had/have no reason to to vent here, my apologies.

 

[93xfan]

10 and 12

May use some hardware that competes with the sensor cores that Nvidia uses for DLSS.

That’s my prediction in this day of chip shortages

 

[Corndog]

The square root of -1

I don’t like imaginary numbers.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Brawling PC fanboys are looking to wreck havocs

 

[Soapbox Killer]

My gaming habits have changed so much that outside of a 4k Switch, I'm fairly sure I have purchased my final console. P5eries X will be it for me.


To the point of the thread, all this sounds far too early to even speculate.

 

[Corndog]

thicc_girls_are_teh_best @Kazekage1981
No existing hardware can run new Unreal Engine games at 4K 60fps.

Xbox Series X (12 TFLOPS RDNA2) run new Matrix UE5 demo at 30fps in 1440p.
For perfect 4K 60fps you will need around 30 TFLOPS of RDNA2, as of 8k they will render at 1800-2160p (4k) and upscale to 4320p(8k) with FSR 2.X, still they need to at least double the performance of the consoles, preferably triple with even more RT perf than that. It shouldn't be a problem on 5nm(if it is 2024 maybe 3nm?), The CPU probably remains the same, they will have enough die space to at least double everything else and maybe push higher clocks.

Seems 3nm is about triple the density of 7nm. I don’t know if that is an average or best case number though.
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/samsu...be-less-denser-than-intels-7nm-and-tsmcs-5nm/

 

[Corndog]

Personally I think we will get refreshes, but in the form of slimmer models and maybe models to expand the product family to a wider base (not a smaller one). So, the streaming box from Microsoft, and a portable (hybrid?) from Sony.

Which would align with their big objectives; GamePass saturation for Microsoft, strengthening reach in Asia for Sony.



Yeah I don't know why TF are suddenly so important again. It'll mean something when mesh shading becomes prevalent but even then you still want a good balance in your GPU design.

Pixel fillrate, texture fillrate, anything related to cache design (Infinity Cache, cache scrubbers, L0 and L1 $ sizes etc.), dedicated logic for resolution upscaling and machine learning (you can technically devote these tasks to pure compute but it'll use a lot more in resources and consume more power), etc.

You can have a 100 TF GPU but if games aren't reliant much on mesh shading and your pixel fillrate is 50 Gpixels/sec then your GPU is objectively trash at gaming.

Probably because when comparing two machines with the same architecture it gives you a pretty go idea of how they compare. Yes, there are other factors. But no reason to exclude floating point operations per second.

 

[Diddy X]

Double or nothing.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

thicc_girls_are_teh_best @Kazekage1981
No existing hardware can run new Unreal Engine games at 4K 60fps.

Xbox Series X (12 TFLOPS RDNA2) run new Matrix UE5 demo at 30fps in 1440p.
For perfect 4K 60fps you will need around 30 TFLOPS of RDNA2, as of 8k they will render at 1800-2160p (4k) and upscale to 4320p(8k) with FSR 2.X, still they need to at least double the performance of the consoles, preferably triple with even more RT perf than that. It shouldn't be a problem on 5nm(if it is 2024 maybe 3nm?), The CPU probably remains the same, they will have enough die space to at least double everything else and maybe push higher clocks.

Actually if anything it's the CPUs which would be the bottleneck. If DF's UE5 analysis is anything to go by, you need some really good CPUs for UE5 (at least in its current state) and the CPUs in PS5 & Series may not be good enough.

Though I find that hard to believe and think it's just down to lack of further optimizations. With more optimization, CPUs like those in PS5 & Series X should be able to handle UE5 stuff like the Matrix demo at 60 FPS. I mean PS5 can do HFW at 60 with visual fidelity on par with the Matrix demo (IMO), while being an actual full game on top of that. But it's running in a completely different engine (Decima).

Seems 3nm is about triple the density of 7nm. I don’t know if that is an average or best case number though.
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/samsu...be-less-denser-than-intels-7nm-and-tsmcs-5nm/

Theoretically 3nm may give triple the density of 7nm. In actuality you probably get an average of 1.5x density, maybe closer to 1.8x density or so in practice. Not all logic scales at the same rate, such as memory controllers. Same with SRAM density, which scales down by much smaller amounts compared to typical logic density shrinkage.

Also with the move to MCM & MCDs, density scaling doesn't say as much when different parts of the package are on different node processes. For example Navi 31 and Navi 32 are using 5nm & 6nm nodes in mixture.

 

[Fishels]

9.2 teraflops, it'll come with Jim Ryan's booble head and free breakfast.

I love your pic lol

 

[BabyYoda]

Personally I'm expecting both to release slim versions of their consoles, but they both said a while back they wouldn't be likely release Pro versions of consoles this gen (iirc), they said it wasn't economically viable, I doubt that has changed in the interim.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Double or nothing.

Double is not enough for a substantial visual upgrade.

They should at least go with ~30TF. But AMD has nothing in this ballpark thats meeting the low power/energy consumption of a console right now.

 

[gimmmick]

We aren’t getting pro models lol .

You’ll see successor to series x/ps5 before a mid generation re fresh.

 

[Cyborg]

It will not matter Machine learning will be the way forward.

 

[systemr123]

I would guess 16-18 if they want to keep the $500 price.

PS5 is 399, unless you want to have a slit in your device.

 

[systemr123]

Sorry, some good at nothing good for nothing cock sucking shit-fuck at work had me in the best mood this morning. I had/have no reason to to vent here, my apologies.

 

[Corndog]

Actually if anything it's the CPUs which would be the bottleneck. If DF's UE5 analysis is anything to go by, you need some really good CPUs for UE5 (at least in its current state) and the CPUs in PS5 & Series may not be good enough.

Though I find that hard to believe and think it's just down to lack of further optimizations. With more optimization, CPUs like those in PS5 & Series X should be able to handle UE5 stuff like the Matrix demo at 60 FPS. I mean PS5 can do HFW at 60 with visual fidelity on par with the Matrix demo (IMO), while being an actual full game on top of that. But it's running in a completely different engine (Decima).



Theoretically 3nm may give triple the density of 7nm. In actuality you probably get an average of 1.5x density, maybe closer to 1.8x density or so in practice. Not all logic scales at the same rate, such as memory controllers. Same with SRAM density, which scales down by much smaller amounts compared to typical logic density shrinkage.

Also with the move to MCM & MCDs, density scaling doesn't say as much when different parts of the package are on different node processes. For example Navi 31 and Navi 32 are using 5nm & 6nm nodes in mixture.

That post is from almost a year ago.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Newer architectures diminish performance/teraflops ratio (RX 7900 XTX has over 60tf but its not 6x faster than 5700xt but rather closer to 3x) so instead of teraflops easier to say performance target. Would guess 2x raster and 2.5-3x rt.

 

[bluecowboys]

Console graphics have diminishing returns after the 7th generation. Games this generation don’t look a lot better than last generation. Next generation graphics are going to look 10 to 15 percent better than what we already have.

Graphics just don’t have the same impact anymore for me. Anyone agree?

 

[SportsFan581]

1 Million TFs

 

[onQ123]

Double is not enough for a substantial visual upgrade.

They should at least go with ~30TF. But AMD has nothing in this ballpark thats meeting the low power/energy consumption of a console right now.

You do realize that it will be a die shrink before anyone release a pro console right?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

All of em... every last one.

 

[Represent.]

30.

 

[AGRacing]

The 7900 XTX is 61 TF.
IF the Pro were to come in the fall of next year it could easily have 30 or damn close to it... Since a revised or new AMD architecture could be pushing 80 - 100 by that time.

Not that it really matters as we've said COUNTLESS times here.
Those 6TF One X ads are Xbox marketing's greatest achievement... It never left some of your heads.

 

[Celcius]

Now people want a Pro version of everything.
We had YEARS of Switch Pro rumors and now it feels like people have started to accept the fact that the next console will be a new generation and not a Pro. Now people are back to wanting Pros for the systems which basically just came out lol.

 

[Umbasaborne]

3

 

[Rayderism]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I just want a Playstation that will play the entire library of ALL the PS consoles all the way back to PS1, with full disk support.....and the limited digital offerings for the older systems too, I guess.

As for just a PS5 Pro that is basically the same thing as we have now, but more powerful.....blah, just save that "power" for PS6.

 

[kingyala]

According to TCL (Tv maker) PS5 Pro and Xbox Series X/S Pro to drop sometime in 2023 or 2024, they also mentioned the Radeon RX 7700 XT, perhaps as a point of comparison in terms of what we can expect power-wise from new mid-gen consoles.

Personally i think it is very unlikely for Sony and Microsoft to release enhanced consoles this soon ,silicon shortage that will last for at least another 2 years, and TSMC's 5nm or 4nm nodes will be in short supply (thanks to Apple gobbling up most of it for themselves) and very expensive in 2024. I see no point in releasing "pro" consoles under these circumstances, but if they go for it I'm curious to see what they gonna do, maybe some Zen 4 Cores + RDNA 3 GPU cores, put it out on TSMC 5/4nm, boom there you go 20TF chip for PS5 Pro, double the performance, what do you guys think?
How many TF would that be?

there wont be a ps5 pro, the idea is stupid on the first place

 

[Godfavor]

Double them and give them to the next architect

 

[Madserb2023]

PS5 Pro - 15TF to 20TF
Series Z - 16Tf to 22Tf