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[Torrent of Pork]

On the contrary, you should buy the game on Steam and EGS at launch if you haven't pre-ordered so Sony has more money to invest into quality ports.

You forgot the /s

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The takes in this thread...

PCIE 5.0 PC parts will save us all from the Beast that is PS5

We are in the I/O era now ND is here to push PC devs into the right direction this is the new Crysis lol

I don't know if you are serious or joking...

but this guy gets it.

Though the savior needed isn't actually PCIE 5.0

 

[Fess]

So glad I didn’t buy it. Do better ND.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Another point for our "in-house tech specialists" to analyse. Theres all this talk that the game just needs that much vram, or that its totally normal behavior to have a game running on worse textures than its ps3 counterpart while using 10x more memory because "its next-gen", as if that excuses any shitty look and performance.

Did you all forgot this?

Naughty Dog themselves recommended 8gb cards for high presets. That can only mean:
A - They lied
B - They messed something up and/or didn't have time to port the game properly
C - They underestimated the necessary amount of vram, which would imply they are so incompetent they don't know how their own in-house engine works.

I'm going with B.

 

[bender]

You forgot the /s

Your sarcasm game might need to be pointed out, but not mine.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Sony devs have been pushing out some shit ports. Pretty lame.

 

[Buggy Loop]

PCIE 5.0 PC parts will save us all from the Beast that is PS5

We are in the I/O era now ND is here to push PC devs into the right direction this is the new Crysis lol

Do peoples like you really like to make comments that age like milk on neogaf to be remembered for years to come?

• The game everyone was scratching their head why it's not on PS4 as it's clearly a quick shoe horn from TLOU 2 engine to PS5? That game is your SSD/IO/Cache scrubber Jesus?
• It doesn't look better than part 2, pretty much a downgrade in fact, quick cash grab.
• Nothing fundamentally changed in the assets streaming for this game compared to its PS4 peer. What's streaming fast? Do tell. A linear 3rd person shooter, not even any game mechanics to stress test the streaming like Ratchet and clank.
• It's loading slow as fuck even by PS5 standards for the games that were actually developed on it. We're talking TLOU part 2 ported to PS5 loading speeds.
• Plague tale requiem manages to bitchslap this on all fronts graphically and runs like butter on PC. No directstorage, no sampler feedback streaming, no cache scrubbers, nada. 6.2GB VRAM at ultra settings at 4k. Maybe Asobo should teach Naughty Dog?
• Script kiddies even found that they're using a version of Oodle decompression that is bugged and has memory leak. Do you really want to flex on the game in this state? Like i said, will age like milk.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Best thing about this port i have seen is, they have messed up Sarah scene at the beginning for some people, making the game a parody of itself.

 

[modiz]

crazy lmao.

Ultra on PC looks worse than the PS5 version performance mode. much less quality mode. good lord lmao.

Its stuff like thisthat just turns me off of PC gaming. I see no point investing in all that extra hardware when developers aren't making games tailored towards it. Not a dev out there making games to take advantage of the beastly hardware. We are playing console games at a higher res/framerate.

Wait, why does the PS5 need 13 seconds to load with the miracle that its SSD is? Spiderman loaded in two seconds in Sony's marketing stunt, what is going on here that takes 13 seconds to fill up 13 gigs of RAM?

 

[onQ123]

The takes in this thread...


I don't know if you are serious or joking...

but this guy gets it.

Though the savior needed isn't actually PCIE 5.0

Joking a little but we are stuck with games that are made around slow I/O

 

[onQ123]

Do peoples like you really like to make comments that age like milk on neogaf to be remembered for years to come?

• The game everyone was scratching their head why it's not on PS4 as it's clearly a quick shoe horn from TLOU 2 engine to PS5? That game is your SSD/IO/Cache scrubber Jesus?
• It doesn't look better than part 2, pretty much a downgrade in fact, quick cash grab.
• Nothing fundamentally changed in the assets streaming for this game compared to its PS4 peer. What's streaming fast? Do tell. A linear 3rd person shooter, not even any game mechanics to stress test the streaming like Ratchet and clank.
• It's loading slow as fuck even by PS5 standards for the games that were actually developed on it. We're talking TLOU part 2 ported to PS5 loading speeds.
• Plague tale requiem manages to bitchslap this on all fronts graphically and runs like butter on PC. No directstorage, no sampler feedback streaming, no cache scrubbers, nada. 6.2GB VRAM at ultra settings at 4k. Maybe Asobo should teach Naughty Dog?
• Script kiddies even found that they're using a version of Oodle decompression that is bugged and has memory leak. Do you really want to flex on the game in this state? Like i said, will age like milk.

My comments age pretty good around here see you next year

 

[gokurho]

2. PS5 shadow quality appears to scale higher than PC Ultra. (Alex gets really frustrated here, as this was unexpected for him lol).
3. Per Alex, there is no meaningful difference between high and ultra settings

Alex "Nooooooooooooooo fuck Console, We PC "

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Wait, why does the PS5 need 13 seconds to load with the miracle that its SSD is? Spiderman loaded in two seconds in Sony's marketing stunt, what is going on here that takes 13 seconds to fill up 13 gigs of RAM?

Good question.

But that sonys marketing stunt comment is disingenuous. Its not a stunt, and many many many games on the PS5 have shown games loading in under 5 seconds and even as little as under 3 seconds. Including the spiderman you referred to but called a marketing stunt.

My theoretical answer to your question however is that this game isn't fully taking advantage of whatever the PS5 brings to bare.

Funny how what you chose to focus on though was that the game loaded in 13secs on the PS5 and ignore the fact that that was still 4 times faster than on PC.

Anyways, this game is all round a bad port. And confirms my lurking theory about ND. A ot of people think they are these technical wizards, I don't... I think they are really good artists and stuff, but when it comes to the technical side of things, they aren't as good as we give them credit for.

 

[ChiefDada]

Wait, why does the PS5 need 13 seconds to load with the miracle that its SSD is? Spiderman loaded in two seconds in Sony's marketing stunt, what is going on here that takes 13 seconds to fill up 13 gigs of RAM?

Just because the PS5 i/o is capable of those speeds doesn't mean the engines have fully caught up yet. Insomniac has mentioned this at least twice now, that they are trying to get their engine to initialize data as fast as the PS5 can deliver it. I'm not saying this is the case here (although I suspect it is), just saying their is a legitimate evidence that supports software api limitation as opposed to a hardware limitation as far as loading goes.

 

[Vroadstar]

Good question.

But that sonys marketing stunt comment is disingenuous. Its not a stunt, and many many many games on the PS5 have shown games loading in under 5 seconds and even as little as under 3 seconds. Including the spiderman you referred to but called a marketing stunt.

My theoretical answer to your question however is that this game isn't fully taking advantage of whatever the PS5 brings to bare.

Funny how what you chose to focus on though was that the game loaded in 13secs on the PS5 and ignore the fact that that was still 4 times faster than on PC.

Anyways, this game is all round a bad part.

Don't bother, his post history will tell you all you need to know.

Back on topic, yes I agree, TLOU PC needs some fixing.

 

[Stooky]

Well, they clearly need to work on those systems then.

True and depends on how many pc releases they plan on doing. they will get better at it

 

[modiz]

Just because the PS5 i/o is capable of those speeds doesn't mean the engines have fully caught up yet. Insomniac has mentioned this at least twice now, that they are trying to get their engine to initialize data as fast as the PS5 can deliver it. I'm not saying this is the case here (although I suspect it is), just saying their is a legitimate evidence that supports software api limitation as opposed to a hardware limitation as far as loading goes.

But didn't they say it's all hardware anyway?
Custom Kraken decompression hardware, fast loading SSD, even the RAD tools, including Kraken and Oodle, being part of their official SDK.

 

[rofif]

Honestly it's doing my head in. There are so many people in the PC gaming community that have overinflated expectations regarding their systems capability that I'm at a loss. Unless you have a 4080 or equivalent or above there is no way on this blue and green earth that you should be trying to just run everything maxed out as a first step.

I'm seeing some steam reveiws of people saying their 2060 super can't run it maxed out and that they should be able to because they can run GTA V maxed out. It's beggars belief.

What is often the case in PC gaming is that the max settings are the least well optimised ones. They are there literally because the devs thought why the fuck not. Some even label them or say they are there for future systems in mind. Doesn't stop the masses crying "unoptimised" though.

What? Why wouldn’t pc gamers with specs higher than console expect the game to run and look better? Of course they should.
The problem here is different. You need too much hardware to see comparable results.

To have an option to lower to ps2 graphics is not an option. Pc games need meaningful settings that do something. Not just 50 setttings for the sake of it and only textures really affect anything

 

[rofif]

Just because the PS5 i/o is capable of those speeds doesn't mean the engines have fully caught up yet. Insomniac has mentioned this at least twice now, that they are trying to get their engine to initialize data as fast as the PS5 can deliver it. I'm not saying this is the case here (although I suspect it is), just saying their is a legitimate evidence that supports software api limitation as opposed to a hardware limitation as far as loading goes.

The point is, we can’t judge the use of io only on loading. It’s high quality assets streaming in game. That’s why pc cpu goes 100% for 5 minutes in every level. It streams in and decompresses assets.
So yeah, maybe game loads 13 seconds but it can still manage to do plenty of io under the hood

 

[FrankWza]

Wait, why does the PS5 need 13 seconds to load with the miracle that its SSD is? Spiderman loaded in two seconds in Sony's marketing stunt, what is going on here that takes 13 seconds to fill up 13 gigs of RAM?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Another point for our "in-house tech specialists" to analyse. Theres all this talk that the game just needs that much vram, or that its totally normal behavior to have a game running on worse textures than its ps3 counterpart while using 10x more memory because "its next-gen", as if that excuses any shitty look and performance.

Did you all forgot this?

Naughty Dog themselves recommended 8gb cards for high presets. That can only mean:
A - They lied
B - They messed something up and/or didn't have time to port the game properly
C - They underestimated the necessary amount of vram, which would imply they are so incompetent they don't know how their own in-house engine works.

I'm going with B.

Resolution there is 1080p though, didn‘t people have much better luck dropping resolution down to 1080p though?

 

[bitbydeath]

But didn't they say it's all hardware anyway?
Custom Kraken decompression hardware, fast loading SSD, even the RAD tools, including Kraken and Oodle, being part of their official SDK.

Same reason games continue to get better throughout a generation.

 

[Panajev2001a]

But didn't they say it's all hardware anyway?
Custom Kraken decompression hardware, fast loading SSD, even the RAD tools, including Kraken and Oodle, being part of their official SDK.

One link: https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/

Not saying that they have unoptimised code as bad as that, but HW and SDK’s can only do so much. Insomniac themselves said that their engine, tweaked for years around slow and high latency HDD’s, was the limiting factor now.

 

[diffusionx]

this is why you dont buy day one lol

 

[ChiefDada]

What? Why wouldn’t pc gamers with specs higher than console expect the game to run and look better? Of course they should.
The problem here is different. You need too much hardware to see comparable results.

If PC users are running the game in accordance with spec recommendations Naughty Dog release and they are having performance issues, then that is absolutely on Naught Dog and they should fix ASAP. But which specs are you referring to? Because console has an edge on PC in terms of memory management that's just a fact. Maybe positions will change in the future, but for now this is where we are. The issue is many of them brushed off the spec requirements and assume CPU/GPU is all that matters, like these guys below (I won't directly tag because I don't want them to think I'm picking on them or attacking them),

Ps5 doesn't run with ultra settings, probably medium-high settings from PC version.

The 6750XT is likely gonna be hitting the 80-90 range at 1440p console settings.
Imma bet a 4080 at console settings at 4K runs close to 100fps.

Ohh then the 6750XT is going to be swimming in frames.

And now they are arguing that X amount of GB or their chosen PC GPU should be enough to run the game on their preferred settings (which is often ultra) since it was enough in the PS4/XBONE generation. As if they know better than the developers about what their game should require. To me, this mentality reeks of arrogance.

They refuse to believe/understand that games are run on systems, not individual components. They were warned by influential and well respected people in the PC space that memory management is/will be crucial for future gaming, such as Hardware Unboxed, Tim Sweeney, AMD, LinusTechTips after he humiliated himself... The list goes on.

 

[YCoCg]

So a bit of a roundup about some of the issues:

The game uses Oodle with PS5's config, Oodle already is heavier on the CPU and the game compression method should've been switched to ZLIB on PC.

The VRAM issue/limit, that's because again it's set to a MULTIPLYER OF THE PS5's RAM, without taking into account VRAM & RAM are separate on PC and much more importantly, scaling UP the PS5's values makes no sense, since the game starts to assume Windows alone needs 4GB-6GB if you have 32GB on RAM. This one is really confusing and should've been something caught in testing right away.

 

[Thebonehead]

The arrogant Alex Bugaga is having a meltdown

If you watched the video, you'd see it's John, Alex and Richard all laughing at the incompetence of naughty dog for an hour straight.

 

[lh032]

crazy lmao.

Ultra on PC looks worse than the PS5 version performance mode. much less quality mode. good lord lmao.

Its stuff like thisthat just turns me off of PC gaming. I see no point investing in all that extra hardware when developers aren't making games tailored towards it. Not a dev out there making games to take advantage of the beastly hardware. We are playing console games at a higher res/framerate.

the power of PS5 SSD.

 

[Braag]

I like how some people here refuse to acknowledge the fact that ND showed their incompetence and rather fault the PC platform itself.
All the while devs like Capcom or even Sonys other titles like Spider-Man (ported by Nixxes) push the games visuals further and run buttery smooth on PC.

 

[Goalus]

If you watched the video, you'd see it's John, Alex and Richard all laughing at the incompetence of naughty dog for an hour straight.

Thanks.
Sounds like a must-watch.

 

[Lysandros]

Doesn't Returnal run at 1080p and like shit on PS5? Does anyone have comparable hardware and the game to test it?

It uses some kind of reconstruction to reach 1440P from an internal 1080P resolution. So it isn't a straight 1080P, we must account for the processing cost of reconstruction. But i agree the game is a bit underwhelming in IQ and texture front given the capabilities of PS5.

 

[01011001]

I like how some people here refuse to acknowledge the fact that ND showed their incompetence and rather fault the PC platform itself.
All the while devs like Capcom or even Sonys other titles like Spider-Man (ported by Nixxes) push the games visuals further and run buttery smooth on PC.

nah maaaan, I don't know...
I think it's perfectly reasonable to blame an 8GB GPU for having worse Textures than a base PS4 game and reserving multiple gigabytes of VRAM for Windows tasks

apparently the shader compilation is also bugged btw. some people have 11GB shader cache folders while others only have a frew hundred megabytes, and the only difference being the CPU
mind you more than 3GB is outrageous

this port man... it's a treasure chest of fuckery

 

[Lysandros]

Anyways, this game is all round a bad port. And confirms my lurking theory about ND. A ot of people think they are these technical wizards, I don't... I think they are really good artists and stuff, but when it comes to the technical side of things, they aren't as good as we give them credit for.

Wait, are you saying this based solely on this PC port? They were never multiplatform/PC developers to begin with (they are now "thanks" to Sony). This doesn't mean that they aren't masters at getting the most of a single console SKU, this goes all the way up to Crash 1 on PS1, they always pushed tech boundaries.

 

[01011001]

Wait, are you saying this based solely on this PC port? They were never multiplatform/PC developers to begin with (they are now "thanks" to Sony). This doesn't mean that they aren't masters at getting the most of a single console SKU, this goes all the way up to Crash 1 on PS1, they always pushed tech boundaries.

Crash 1 Pushing boundaries? are you mixing it up with Spyro? lol

Crash is barely even a 3D platformer with how extremely limited the leveldesign is

 

[YCoCg]

Crash 1 Pushing boundaries? are you mixing it up with Spyro? lol

Crash is barely even a 3D platformer with how extremely limited the leveldesign is

Less Crash 1, though it has the foundations but certainly Crash 2, Crash 3 and CTR were pushing the PS1 well. It's hard to think now but the long range draw distance on the Crash 3 levels was really impressive to see in motion considering most games of that era either had extreme pop in and the classic "N64 fog".

 

[01011001]

Less Crash 1, though it has the foundations but certainly Crash 2, Crash 3 and CTR were pushing the PS1 well. It's hard to think now but the long range draw distance on the Crash 3 levels was really impressive to see in motion considering most games of that era either had extreme pop in and the classic "N64 fog".

Crash levels are literally corridors tho.
the extremely restrictive game design makes it easier to do this stuff.

Spyro had open ended levels with a, for the time, highly sophisticated LOD system and minimal texture warping.
that's way more impressive than any Crash game

 

[DenchDeckard]

People are arguing and defending this terrible port?

Some serious true colours showing here of blatant platform and corperate company fandom.

This shit can not be defended, its like the worst port we have seen in recent history....where were you people to defend cyberpunk or assassins creed unity to this level?

I can't believe Sony and ND can be getting supported here. There is no excuse for this.

Embarrassing.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Fuck the loading…lookie here

PS5 is bestia

 

[YCoCg]

Crash levels are literally corridors tho.
the extremely restrictive game design makes it easier to do this stuff.

Spyro had open ended levels with a, for the time, highly sophisticated LOD system and minimal texture warping.
that's way more impressive than any Crash game

Corridors with tight gameplay, impressive visuals and good controls.

Also Insomniac shared details with ND back then, Cerny was overlooking both franchises. Why are you trying to pit them against each other?

 

[01011001]

Corridors with tight gameplay, impressive visuals and good controls.

Also Insomniac shared details with ND back then, Cerny was overlooking both franchises. Why are you trying to pit them against each other?

because Crash wasn't impressive in any area.
Spyro was.

Crash, in terms of gamedesign, could literally have been done on an SNES.
having good looking graphics while running down a corridor isn't impressive

 

[Cyborg]

Whoever approved this to be released in this state should be fired. Didn't the same guys port Batman AC?

 

[GHG]

What? Why wouldn’t pc gamers with specs higher than console expect the game to run and look better? Of course they should.
The problem here is different. You need too much hardware to see comparable results.

To have an option to lower to ps2 graphics is not an option. Pc games need meaningful settings that do something. Not just 50 setttings for the sake of it and only textures really affect anything

Depends on what you define as "better specs". Because in my book, a 2060 super or 2070 super aren't that. But people are free to believe what they want to believe of course.

The textures are clearly fucked, the decompression process is fucked. But once all is said and done I don't see the VRAM requirements changing.

People are arguing and defending this terrible port?

Some serious true colours showing here of blatant platform and corperate company fandom.

This shit can not be defended, its like the worst port we have seen in recent history....where were you people to defend cyberpunk or assassins creed unity to this level?

I can't believe Sony and ND can be getting supported here. There is no excuse for this.

Embarrassing.

I'm just going to say it, if it was anyone other than Alex doing this video then this thread doesn't get the traction it does.

Whoever approved this to be released in this state should be fired. Didn't the same guys port Batman AC?

Yep it's the batman guys again.

 

[01011001]

The textures are clearly fucked, the decompression process is fucked. But once all is said and done I don't see the VRAM requirements changing.

the VRAM setup is insanity. you can't allocated MULTIPLE GIGABYTES of VRAM to Windows tasks and think that this makes any sense.

Windows and other programs that you usually have open while playing games don't use any significant amount of video memory.
this is clearly just a copy paste job of the PS5 allocation that wasn't properly adjusted for the PC port.

 

[YCoCg]

because Crash wasn't impressive in any area.
Spyro was.

Crash, in terms of gamedesign, could literally have been done on an SNES.
having good looking graphics while running down a corridor isn't impressive

I'm sorry to say man, but millions disagree, they disagreed so hard that millions again bought the remaster of this corridor game decades later. And even then if you still want to shout about it, you're not going to change my mind because I remember playing those games as a kid and just loving them, and you're not taking that away from me. If you don't think the games were good or impressive then that's your opinion but a lot would disagree with you, we can appreciate both Crash and Spyro, you don't have to shit on one to like the other and then try and force people to change their views.

 

[yamaci17]

the VRAM setup is insanity. you can't allocated MULTIPLE GIGABYTES of VRAM to Windows tasks and think that this makes any sense.

Windows and other programs that you usually have open while playing games don't use any significant amount of video memory.
this is clearly just a copy paste job of the PS5 allocation that wasn't properly adjusted for the PC port.

jeez they don't. game will perfectly function fine if you let it use 7200 7400 mb vram


1440p DLSS Q
Game application VRAM meter 7233 MB
Total: 8839 MB
In game usage: 7332 MB

Result? Trivago




Not many problems at 1440p either



And this is on lowend 16 gb ram budget and a decrepit old ryzen zen+ CPU clocked at 3.7 GHz

give me a break

the FUD caused by fake 1.6 GB OS+Apps thing is unreal, LMAO

 

[systemr123]

But didn't they say it's all hardware anyway?
Custom Kraken decompression hardware, fast loading SSD, even the RAD tools, including Kraken and Oodle, being part of their official SDK.

Yes it is, but the game is a remastered ps4 game. It uses different software solutions for loading, so the actual hardware is not used optimal. To get the lightning quick loading times you have to use a ps5 api and apparently it was not easy enough to adjust the ps4 code to the ps5 api. Maybe it brought many errors in texture streaming etc since the game is ps4 as a base.

 

[Kataploom]

Specs matter, but feel free to die on this hill.
We can reconvene later when more games aimed at the current gen release.

You know, it matters more for unoptimized products, game looks worse and runs waaaaaaay worse then A Plague Tale Requiem (current gen only), it's basically a PS3 game with renewed graphics, which shouldn't require any intensive use of CPU, is full of bugs, glitches, memory leaks... You can't just brute force a port like that LMAO

 

[systemr123]

jeez they don't. game will perfectly function fine if you let it use 7200 7400 mb vram


1440p DLSS Q
Game application VRAM meter 7233 MB
Total: 8839 MB
In game usage: 7332 MB

Result? Trivago




Not many problems at 1440p either



And this is on lowend 16 gb ram budget and a decrepit old ryzen zen+ CPU clocked at 3.7 GHz

give me a break

the FUD caused by fake 1.6 GB OS+Apps thing is unreal, LMAO

The difference in performance has probably mainly to do with console architecture being completely different to pc architecture. You sort of try to run a game that is coded to use unified memory and other stuff on a PC which has every resource split which leads to much copying in between and as a result not only make things slower but also having to wait for each other, drastically increasing necessary cpu as well since it has to orchestrate all these things as well.

Unless they would completely rewrite the engine for PC use its going to to run much less good on a pc with comparable specs. It takes a much stronger PC to reach an equal state.

 

[systemr123]

You know, it matters more for unoptimized products, game looks worse and runs waaaaaaay worse then A Plague Tale Requiem (current gen only), it's basically a PS3 game with renewed graphics, which shouldn't require any intensive use of CPU, is full of bugs, glitches, memory leaks... You can't just brute force a port like that LMAO

Plague Tale Requiem is a PC game ported to consoles, using the base from PC is easier than the other way around.

TLOU is optimized for PS5, it has a total different, more efficient main architecture. It’s way harder to port that to PC efficiently and effectively than the other way around.

 

[modiz]

Yes it is, but the game is a remastered ps4 game. It uses different software solutions for loading, so the actual hardware is not used optimal. To get the lightning quick loading times you have to use a ps5 api and apparently it was not easy enough to adjust the ps4 code to the ps5 api. Maybe it brought many errors in texture streaming etc since the game is ps4 as a base.

Yeah perhaps this is really just an optimization problem which, considering this thread, actually makes sense.