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[Spitfire098]

Even the most hardened Xbox fans are calling them out.

But then there's this individual.

 

[Dr. Claus]

He is literally the biggest Shill on GAF.

 

[SlimySnake]

I must concede that if Redfall was a next gen graphics tour de force at 4K, the fervor against 30 fps would be less impassioned. But the game looks mid at best. This was definitely a last gen title ported over to next gen.

These lengthy dev cycles need to end. By time the game comes out it goes from great graphics when revealed to middling graphics once released. This is an Xbox OneX and PS4 title trying to compete with AAA current gen games.

Arkane is learning a tough lesson. There's a big difference between being a mid-tier 3rd party developer to a first party studio. First party games have a higher expectation. Hopefully their next title takes this into consideration.

If Microsoft actually had a bigger stable of first party titles that were ready, Redfall would have been delayed a couple of years to move it to UE 5 and polish up the visuals a bit more.

Arkane is a B-tier studio that's out of their depth as a first party.

Yeah, Arkhane needs to step up their game. TBH, i remember Dishonored 1 looking absolutely stunning on PC. Id put it up there with Bioshock Infinite and other big third party releases. For whatever reason, they've kinda leveled out after that. Prey and Dishonored 2 barely looked better than Dishonored 1 on PC. Everyone else got a next gen boost while they just said fuck it, our fans dont care about visuals. Deathloop was so forgettable it didnt even make the top 20 NPD charts in 2021 despite being critically acclaimed and having Sony shove it down our throats for two goddamn years. PS5 owners expect more visual flair from their exclusives and ive no idea why Jimbo thought Deathloop would be something we'd be interested in.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not trying to justify it. Just pointing out why some single player games have 60 fps modes while coop ones tend to have issues. This is obviously unacceptable for a first party game. I just dont think its a simple fix or devs from gotham knights, bungie (last gen) and arkhane wouldve fixed it already. MS shouldve offered help or resources to get this sorted out by launch. this is not a good look on MS the publisher.

Klobrie was probably paid at some point. Xbox Ambassador program recruits guys like him and they are paid for sure. I think one of the era mods was an Xbox MVP. whatever that means.

His 180 has been good to watch. If a bit too late. Him along with other xbox fans shouted us down for years about the boneheaded decision making at the top. We warned about this, and they just stuck their heads in the sand. Now they are the third year with no real exclusives, the power narrative failed, the series s didnt help them win the charts, and might have caused more headaches at first party studios, lack of meaningful controller and UI changes, and well, MS top brass are just not well equipped to handle first party studios. Stuff we'd been saying for years.

That said, i think this is an overreaction. Shipping this coop with 30 fps is not the end of the world, and starfield and forza will make this a great year for Microsoft fans. He will be back singing Phil's praises in six months time.

I wonder how much these guys make and how the pay out schedule works.

I know my company pays for blatant YT influencer videos for like $5000 + tons of free product + any graphic assets. But those are one off videos. Not ongoing Twitter plugs.

 

[Thebonehead]

Not trying to justify it. Just pointing out why some single player games have 60 fps modes while coop ones tend to have issues. This is obviously unacceptable for a first party game. I just dont think its a simple fix or devs from gotham knights, bungie (last gen) and arkhane wouldve fixed it already. MS shouldve offered help or resources to get this sorted out by launch. this is not a good look on MS the publisher.

Klobrie was probably paid at some point. Xbox Ambassador program recruits guys like him and they are paid for sure. I think one of the era mods was an Xbox MVP. whatever that means.

His 180 has been good to watch. If a bit too late. Him along with other xbox fans shouted us down for years about the boneheaded decision making at the top. We warned about this, and they just stuck their heads in the sand. Now they are the third year with no real exclusives, the power narrative failed, the series s didnt help them win the charts, and might have caused more headaches at first party studios, lack of meaningful controller and UI changes, and well, MS top brass are just not well equipped to handle first party studios. Stuff we'd been saying for years.

That said, i think this is an overreaction. Shipping this coop with 30 fps is not the end of the world, and starfield and forza will make this a great year for Microsoft fans. He will be back singing Phil's praises in six months time.

ExcuseMeSayWhatNow

 

[mckmas8808]

Might not be getting compensated/embraced like he thought he would. They even use some of his material in their promotional tweets, doubt he gets paid accordingly for it though.




Mugs like him are the reason they can get rid of much of their marketing team and reduce marketing spend.

That's INSANE!!! At least they credited him, but he should be paid for stuff like that.

 

[Nothing1234]

Don’t listen to your customers is an odd take for sure. It’s sad to see how some people accept the bare minimum from Xbox.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

PS5 owners expect more visual flair from their exclusives and ive no idea why Jimbo thought Deathloop would be something we'd be interested in.

I think that the plan was for it to be a launch game. Or close enough like Kena. It is true that they really pushed the marketing for that one. Not my style so I simply let it go.

Going open world is not easy, even if we got a thousand of them in the last decade. Going co-op is not easy either, and we got a lot of them too. Making games is not easy. Arkane tried. Maybe it will be good. Maybe it was doomed from the start and Bethesda wanted a GAAS game and they were forced to comply. What is sure is that it will be out soon. If the gameplay is good some people will like it. Gamepass has that advantage that the barrier to try the game is really small.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I can't believe they even made that comment if this is true. What a stupid thing to say.

Heisenberg007 are you daft?

Don’t get triggered or personal. Back 4 Blood, Redfall and Ghost of Tsushima all have 4 player co-ops.

We don’t know how “open” and seamless the world in Redfall really is.

But we do know that 2 of those games run at 60 FPS, while one doesn’t. What it means that “4 player co-op” cannot alone be the reason for 30 FPS, as someone suggested.

COD DMZ is another open-world game/mode that has other players and run at 60 FPS just fine.

Edit: Forgot. Division 2 is likely a bigger open world than Redfall, better looking, co op, and 60 FPS.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

That gif is so aggressively lewd it actually made me burst out laughing

 

[ANDS]

Don’t get triggered or personal. Back 4 Blood, Redfall and Ghost of Tsushima all have 4 player co-ops.

We don’t know how “open” and seamless the world in Redfall really is.

Yes we do. How do we know, because every publication under the sun talked about the that opens and their experiences matches what ARKANE have been saying about the game since the press tour began months ago. And nothing suggests the GOT: Legends or B4B with their "4 player co-op" is operating on the same space scale as REDFALL with its "4 player co-op."

. . .and it is WILDLY disingenuous to say someone is being "triggered" or "getting personal" when they push back on a completely nonsense comparison that is disproven with even the minimal amount of Googling.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Another thing I noticed with this is how they don't even specify a release date for 60 fps patch.

This is something people who are adamant about 60fps should be weary of. For example, Returnal devs talked about patching in a suspend cycle/save state and people ended up waiting 6 months for that.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Sony put GOWR, HFW, and GT7 on PS4 basically as a good gesture to that userbase, and made them respectable versions but those are obviously all PS5 games first and foremost, and they're moving on with stuff like Burning Shores. Of course, that will be used to shit on them in console wars talk.

I don’t agree at all. They were PS4 games, and they did work to take advantage of PS5 but ground-up PS5 games those are not.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yes we do. How do we know, because every publication under the sun talked about the that opens and their experiences matches what ARKANE have been saying about the game since the press tour began months ago. And nothing suggests the GOT: Legends or B4B with their "4 player co-op" is operating on the same space scale as REDFALL with its "4 player co-op."

. . .and it is WILDLY disingenuous to say someone is being "triggered" or "getting personal" when they push back on a completely nonsense comparison that is disproven with even the minimal amount of Googling.

No, we don’t know because they only got to play a very small portion of the game.

“It is 4 player co op and that’s why it cannot be 60 FPS” is a stupid argument because there are open-world co op games that look better and run at 60 FPS just fine, eg., The Division 2.

If Redfall doesn’t run at 60, there has to be another reason for it.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Next-gen

 

[DeepEnigma]

“It is 4 player co op and that’s why it cannot be 60 FPS” is a stupid argument

A really ignorant argument by the most diehards. Why even use this argument if they said a patch is coming later for 60? Total mental gymnastics.

 

[Heisenberg007]

A really ignorant argument by the most diehards. Why even use this argument if they said a patch is coming later for 60? Total mental gymnastics.

Exactly! If this was the reason Redfall would never get 60 FPS.

And there couldn’t be other games like this , ala B4B or TD2.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I’m gonna guess you are one of the people who say they can’t see the difference

I certainly can.

I also can wait a few weeks for a mode if that's what I want.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Even the most hardened Xbox fans are calling them out.

But then there's this individual.

I don't know all of them but Ybarra has said Xbox sent out free goodies for the "loyal" ones "to influence positive affinity" and pretty sure I shared those receipts to the mods here saying as much

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I don’t agree at all. They were PS4 games, and they did work to take advantage of PS5 but ground-up PS5 games those are not.

Theu were limited at their inception by the PS4, yes. But they were also having the PS5 in mind. Demon's souls remaster could have easily been a cross gen game too, if they wanted.

I see it that way: when Kojima wanted to make a ground up PS3 game, he made MSG4. When it was time for the PS4, he made MGS5. Who got a PS3 version. Regardless of being cross gen or not the game would have been different because of the time difference between the two. What he wanted changed during that time. It is the same with Sony recent games.

Yes those games could have been better if they were only on PS5. But they would still need years to learn of to use it to the best effect. It worked pretty well. I understand wanting more, but I prefer that to the desert we got in the PS3 and PS4 first years.

 

[clarky]

Every Xbox owner about to find out why 30fps absolutely sucks on that OLED TV they bought.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Every Xbox owner about to find out why 30fps absolutely sucks on that OLED TV they bought.

I've seen this a few times in here. As a brand-new OLED TV owner, I'm almost afraid to ask but...

Lay it on me.

 

[ANDS]

No, we don’t know because they only got to play a very small portion of the game.

So the previewers are just lying. Sounds about right.

“It is 4 player co op and that’s why it cannot be 60 FPS” is a stupid argument because there are open-world co op games that look better and run at 60 FPS just fine, eg., The Division 2.

If Redfall doesn’t run at 60, there has to be another reason for it.

Yeah that's not how this works. YOU made the comparison to GOT:L and folks pointed out that it was a terrible comparison as pushback against the - pretty reasonable - guess as to why the game isn't launching with 60FPS. Not a single person said it was an excuse as to why it can't, simply why it isn't.

 

[DenchDeckard]

To be fair on MS, they've been the biggest advocate of 60fps for games like gears and halo even through the xbox one generation. Imagine dealing with that hardware and delivering 60 fps.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I've seen this a few times in here. As a brand-new OLED TV owner, I'm almost afraid to ask but...

Lay it on me.

For a lack of a better word brother, it's "stuttery"and no amount of in-game motion blur fixes it, it's just...bad, you'll notice it once you'll fire up your first 30fps game on it.

I'm a new-ish OLED owner myself (LG C2) and I kept thinking "how bad can it really be ? " everytime I kept reading opinions about it but, unfortunately, I can confirm that it's just hideous to the point of being unplayable...

To make you understand, I'd rather turn on motion interpolation as to have a smooth picture on my C2 which obviously introduces image artifacts and also high input lag than to play on 30fps - and I never-ever used MI for obvious reasons.

It's bad, bad, baaad

Cheers

 

[DeepEnigma]

To be fair on MS, they've been the biggest advocate of 60fps

Which makes all of this worse.

 

[clarky]

I've seen this a few times in here. As a brand-new OLED TV owner, I'm almost afraid to ask but...

Lay it on me.

It feels stuttery as fuck like its missing every other frame. Destiny for example was horrible.

Google 30fps oled stutter theres loads of info.

Edit: what the other guy said.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

For a lack of a better word brother, it's "stuttery"and no amount of in-game motion blur fixes it, it's just...bad, you'll notice it once you'll fire up your first 30fps game on it.

I'm a new-ish OLED owner myself (LG C2) and I kept thinking "how bad can it really be ? " everytime I kept reading opinions about it but, unfortunately, I can confirm that it's just hideous to the point of being unplayable...

To make you understand, I'd rather turn on motion interpolation as to have a smooth picture on my C2 which obviously introduces image artifacts and also high input lag than to play on 30fps - and I never-ever used MI for obvious reasons.

It's bad, bad, baaad

Cheers

I just spent over a grand on this fucking TV and I somehow missed this...

 

[kyoji]

I don't know all of them but Ybarra has said Xbox sent out free goodies for the "loyal" ones "to influence positive affinity" and pretty sure I shared those receipts to the mods here saying as much

explains alot tbh

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I just spent over a grand on this fucking TV and I somehow missed this...

No worries mate, everything 60fps (and above) looks s-p-l-e-n-d-i-d !

Also, while you're gonna get blasted if you even dare to.mention it on online forums, Frame interpolation IS a - not a fix - but an option for non twitchy games.On a LG OLED, you have to exit the "game picture"mode and also deactivate VRR from your console to be able to use it though otherwise the menus on the TV will be greyed out.
There's also black frame insertion (BFI) but, on my C2 it dims the picture so much that I just have turned it off.

Not to worry, the OLED hype is real (not so much though if you're coming from a plasma TV).

Cheers

PS : which one did you get ?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Even the most hardened Xbox fans are calling them out.

But then there's this individual.

wow, this guy.....can someone fall so low and still be called a human being...or should i say: Human Shill?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

That's INSANE!!! At least they credited him, but he should be paid for stuff like that.

You can tell MS didn't make it cause it's actually pretty good. haha

 

[Bernoulli]

did the devs say if both consoles can't run or can the series x with unlocked frames?

 

[adamsapple]

We don’t know how “open” and seamless the world in Redfall really is.

The footage so far has all painted a genuine open world, not a corridor fest ala Crysis 2, if that's what you mean.. Redfall's world is 27k square meters, i-e around 17 square miles. For reference, Skyrim is 15 square miles, and despite Ubisoft boasting a 1 : 1 recreation of DC, the playable areas of The Division 2 are 11.4 square km (around 5 square mile if google is to be believed).

It's a pretty big game world and un-tethered 4 player co-op would naturally incur some cost. Cost enough that they haven't been able to get it to 60 at launch but will likely make necessary CPU culling related cuts to get it there via updates.

And once again, Back 4 Blood is not even a viable comparison. It just feels like you're purposefully making that comparison because of some perceived similarity in the games art styles.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Don’t get triggered or personal. Back 4 Blood, Redfall and Ghost of Tsushima all have 4 player co-ops.

We don’t know how “open” and seamless the world in Redfall really is.

But we do know that 2 of those games run at 60 FPS, while one doesn’t. What it means that “4 player co-op” cannot alone be the reason for 30 FPS, as someone suggested.

COD DMZ is another open-world game/mode that has other players and run at 60 FPS just fine.

Edit: Forgot. Division 2 is likely a bigger open world than Redfall, better looking, co op, and 60 FPS.

I thought they said it's the largest game world they've made and it has 4 player co op. Your comparing last gen games vs a current gen game. Your comparisons are irrelevant and I think you know exactly what you are doing. The games you initially mentioned were daft as shit.

 

[clarky]

I just spent over a grand on this fucking TV and I somehow missed this...

Its ok my man, just avoid and fast paced games at 30fps, which there aren't many.

The benefits of OLED TV's far outweigh the one negative imo.

 

[adamsapple]

I thought they said it's the largest game world they've made and it has 4 player co op. Your comparing last gen games vs a current gen game. Your comparisons are irrelevant and I think you know exactly what you are doing. The games you initially mentioned were daft as shit.

It is their largest world and a pretty large open world in general. Kinda dumb to keep comparing with B4B at this point TBH but it keeps getting made and quoted.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I just spent over a grand on this fucking TV and I somehow missed this...

Don't feel bad. I didn't know about it either. I'm still on LCD though. I thought burn-in was the one thing I had to make sure was fixed with OLED.

 

[Topher]

Even the most hardened Xbox fans are calling them out.

But then there's this individual.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Which makes all of this worse.

Absolutely agree, I'm not defending a none 60fps mode on this game at all. It's absolutely shit. I'm just saying that trying to compare it to back 4 blood is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

 

[Bernardougf]

The shills never disappoint... always on Q.. bravo

 

[Warablo]

Crazy that they can't get 60 FPS on console. Co-op gone wrong.

I expect the PC port to be chunky.

 

[Bernardougf]

For a lack of a better word brother, it's "stuttery"and no amount of in-game motion blur fixes it, it's just...bad, you'll notice it once you'll fire up your first 30fps game on it.

I'm a new-ish OLED owner myself (LG C2) and I kept thinking "how bad can it really be ? " everytime I kept reading opinions about it but, unfortunately, I can confirm that it's just hideous to the point of being unplayable...

To make you understand, I'd rather turn on motion interpolation as to have a smooth picture on my C2 which obviously introduces image artifacts and also high input lag than to play on 30fps - and I never-ever used MI for obvious reasons.

It's bad, bad, baaad

Cheers

Can confirm that ... 30 fps even the 40 fps modes are just slow motion diarrhea... 60 fps is the way to go even with some graphical losses, but some people are less sensitive them others and will say is just fine... for me playing in 30 fps in my OLED is just impossible, i dont even test Quality modes anymore ... straight to perfomance and fuck it

Waiting for the PRO revisions.. cant come soon enough

 

[adamsapple]

Can confirm that ... 30 fps even the 40 fps modes are just slow motion diarrhea... 60 fps is the way to go even with some graphical losses, but some people are less sensitive them others and will say is just fine... for me playing in 30 fps in my OLED is just impossible

40hz modes are fine and should be more frequent imo.

 

[Bernardougf]

40hz modes are fine and should be more frequent imo.

Tried in horizon FW ... is better them 30 fps but cant hold a candle to 60 fps ... in the end is a matter of preference anyway

 

[Astray]

I saw a post yesterday of ColtEastwood saying Redfall runs like crap on PC . . . I still don't know if it was faked. Making zero assumptions.

He initially talked about the game being amazing and even made a compilation to try and "disprove" that the game is bad after the IGN First footage came out.

Now he's doing a u-turn and talking about how the game runs badly on PC (despite also saying he posted what he did before because he signed a massive NDA, which I am honestly thinking he might have violated when he said the game runs bad on PC).

He's honestly a clown and I have zero clue why Microsoft has a media strategy that relies on people like him at all!

 

[GHG]

I just spent over a grand on this fucking TV and I somehow missed this...

The moment I got a CX and hooked it up to my PC I said I immediately need an upgrade whereas with the QLED before was absolutely fine (well I say "fine", but 30fps was tolerable in certain circumstances). On the flipside 60-120fps on an OLED will blow your away, especially at native resolution.

Welcome to the money pit.

 

[azertydu91]

I don't know all of them but Ybarra has said Xbox sent out free goodies for the "loyal" ones "to influence positive affinity" and pretty sure I shared those receipts to the mods here saying as much

I've always wondered what kind of work or acquintances you or other people "in the know" migh have to get those kind of infos...I'm not asking you simply because I don't want people, and especially you (meaning someone that doesn't dwell in console warring or anything) to be at risk or jeopardizing any kind of relationship they/you might have....
But I always find it fascinating, I barely know anybody in real life and even with my friend we barely talk, it is more a kind of growl followed by a series of personal jokes and insults around a beer....

 

[Giallo Corsa]

40hz modes are fine and should be more frequent imo.

You know what Adams ? Just yesterday, I gave Horizon's FW "balanced" aka 40fps mode a go and : the 40fps setting feels like the normal 30fps of yore (on a LCD) when playing on OLED.
The 30fps one is a stuttery mess, the 40fps one though is actually smooth without the "ever-other-frame stutter" introduced due to the OLED's instant response time, it's actually kinda weird, again, it didn't feel like I was playing at +10 frames per second, it felt like I was playing a normally paced 30fps game on a LED/LCD TV without the stutters.

Basically, for OLED TVs, 40 fps is a necessity and not a luxury or "balanced" thing when dealing with lower than 60fos games

 

[Bernardougf]

I just spent over a grand on this fucking TV and I somehow missed this...

Oled is fucking awesome .. say goodbye to lazy crap 30 fps anyway and live a happier life