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[Hobbygaming]

With the bad publicity surrounding Redfall's announcement of 30FPS do you think this will influence developers to focus on 60FPS going forward?

I think it'll be like it always is. As games get more demanding, developers use more resources to push visuals and other things and those calculations shave off the frame time needed for 60FPS/16.67ms

I still play most games at 30FPS so I'm good but do you think this will be the generation of change? I feel like developers will always choose visuals over frames. If they can't do what they want graphically with higher frames they will settle for 30FPS

Also I noticed people ultimately don't care about Zelda being 30FPS because it's looking like another great game whereas Redfall has had more going against it like always online, bad showings, etc

 

[Banjo64]

Yeah. Just have to hope Sony keep pushing 40fps as a performance mode.

 

[lh032]

i guess we can only wait and see

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Depends on games.

I think we are getting decent graphics in 60 fps modes. But if developers decide to use processing power elsewhere, it better be worth it.

 

[Markio128]

Not on PSVR2. Frame-rates are one of the least talked about VR benefits.
Saying that, most, if not all of my favourite non-Vr games, have a 60fps mode.

 

[Whitecrow]

Yes. No doubt about it.

Be smart and dont let yourself get too used to 60 or more.

 

[winjer]

Let's remember that frame rate is a choice made by developers.
For example, CoD always targets 60 fps to improve gameplay and responsiveness.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Depends on the game. If your game is a competitive FPS and looks like it was made in 2014, then 60fps should be the bare minimum.

 

[kikkis]

Its frustrating that we are already on the third year of the consoles and there really isnt any games from top tier studios. I suppose at this point decisions have been made to target either 30 or 60 fps. I think lot of it has to do if 30 could enable them to do significantly more than 60 fps game. My guess is no, due to dimishing returns.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Almost 3 years in and only a handful of 30fps-only games.

This is the turning point and it feels great.

 

[Madserb2023]

I think with the PS6 we may finally have 60fps being the bare minimum, but at some point we are going to get a drop to 30 fps or 40fps for most AAA releases with this gen.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Its frustrating that we are already on the third year of the consoles and there really isnt any games from top tier studios. I suppose at this point decisions have been made to target either 30 or 60 fps. I think lot of it has to do if 30 could enable them to do significantly more than 60 fps game. My guess is no, due to dimishing returns.

I'm one of the people who still believe a good leap is coming which is also part of the reason why I think 30FPS is here to stay

 

[Sony]

Yes. Haters of 30fps grossly exagerrate how 'unplayable' it is. Depending on the type of game, I prefer 30FPS with more bells and whistles over 60FPS with less.
The case of Redfall is different though as the bells and whistles are missing, but in general the reaction is way to dramatic.
30 FPS is perfectly fine and anyone telling otherwise is lying.

 

[Sony]

Almost 3 years in and only a handful of 30fps-only games.

This is the turning point and it feels great.

Probably because the vast majority of games have been cross gen so far. As I've said earlier, the PS5 so far is a PS4 Pro² SSD edition and the Series X is an Xbox One X² SSD Edition.

 

[cireza]

The future is probably less. After all, we moved from 60fps (8/16 bits consoles) to 30fps (32 bits consoles and on), so why wouldn't we go lower ? inception.gif

 

[SeraphJan]

40fps might be the new standard

PS: according to the film industry with their over several decades of trial and error prior to the 24fps standard, they found out that 48fps is the sweet spot for smoothness and cost, they cut it half to 24fps because of greed, that's the short version of it. Meaning we might not need 60fps to reach a satisfying experience, a stable perfect frame paced 48fps might be good enough

 

[Hobbygaming]

Keep in mind, new and revamped game engines are coming

 

[feynoob]

Depends on what developers want.
60 fps would be the standard, but 4k is holding that back.

 

[Markio128]

If new games are released with only a 30fps mode, then they better look damn good. I’m talking better than HFW good. The bar has been set, so gamers have every right to be disappointed if a 30fps game on series x or ps5 looks average.

 

[Pelao]

With this generation I'm avoiding any game that doesn't have a 60fps mode. 40fps feels like garbage in comparison too, so I don't consider it a viable alternative.
The only 30fps game I'll give a pass to is Tears of the Kingdom, and that's because I'm biased because of how much I enjoyed BotW, but even that's a gamble since I don't know if I'll hate the experience.

 

[cireza]

Keep in mind, new and revamped game engines are coming

I really wonder. The theory has been shared, things like FFS or whatever Microsoft calls this shit, as well as the other thing from UE5 where 1 pixel = 1 polygon. Ok great, but it will only matter if studios actually adopt these technologies.

 

[Black_Stride]

If you are really averse to 30fps, dont get a console.
Build yourself a "cheap" gaming PC and know how to use the settings menu.
30fps is going to be a thing.

I really wonder. The theory has been shared, things like FFS or whatever Microsoft calls this shit, as well as the other thing from UE5 where 1 pixel = 1 polygon. Ok great, but it will only matter if studios actually adopt these technologies.

Virtual Geometry is absolutely going to take over the industry.
Its efficient even from a game design perspective, not worry about polycount when you inject a model into a scene is still mindblowing to me for realtime.....and I came from RedShift and Fstorm which both had IPRs that in my eyes were super fast.......then UE5 drops and im legit campaigning for the company I work for to adopt Unreal Engine atleast as a backup renderer for smaller projects that dont require absolutely pristine renders.

 

[Spaceman292]

I hadn't heard Redfall is 30 fps. Wow, fuck that lmao I'm not playing that shit.

 

[GymWolf]

Most probably yes, just wait for the more graphically instensive titles from the usual suspects who want to squeeze 120% from these machines.

 

[3liteDragon]

30fps is always here to stay but we'll obviously get 60fps options too, and it depends on the kind of game you're playing as well. It's all in the implementation for me, there are good implementations where it runs super smooth like Naughty Dog or Insomniac's solution & then there are terrible ones. And no, I don't think 60fps should be the standard for Sony's single-player games, give us the option to choose between the two.

I made a prediction about this a while back actually, I think we'll see it with Sony's titles mainly & maybe big third-party titles as well. I think current-gen games coming out later this gen will have performance modes on console that won't look much different from quality in motion, I think the mesh/primitive shader tech is gonna be a game-changer. You gotta remember that devs are still on a pretty steep learning curve when it comes to the console hardware.

 

[Spaceman292]

Yes. Haters of 30fps grossly exagerrate how 'unplayable' it is. Depending on the type of game, I prefer 30FPS with more bells and whistles over 60FPS with less.
The case of Redfall is different though as the bells and whistles are missing, but in general the reaction is way to dramatic.
30 FPS is perfectly fine and anyone telling otherwise is lying.

That's wrong

 

[Hobbygaming]

Ok great, but it will only matter if studios actually adopt these technologies.

Yeah that's one of the things about mesh shaders, you can't use geometry or any tessellation shaders in the pipeline. Developers would have to really optimize and benchmark more to get a handle on it

 

[TrebleShot]

No sorry, maybe at the start of the gen 30fps was acceptable in outside cases.
But almost 3 years in its completely unacceptable and if it wasn’t happens it should be called out.

Of course it’s not important in the grand scheme of things but let’s be honest with quick response time monitors and OLED screens you can’t be messing about with 30fps it looks absolutely disgusting and I would say at this point unplayable.

What games are even exclusively 30fps on console?
Even red fall will eventually get a 60 mode.

Id argue that 120 should be more common, when you have 120hz laptops and phones it becomes very obvious on console when a game is struggling with 60, but I’ll take 60 every day.

40 modes are really nice I enjoy the experience on them balancing higher res and frames is a great compromise but you can’t deny when going from a smooth 60 to 40 it feels a bit of a halfway house which is expected.

In terms of tears of the kingdom it’s a bit of a joke that steam deck will likely play it much better than the native hardware and if you want stick it on your gaming PC and crank it.

I can think of one game on PS5 thats 30fps which is the Quarry.

 

[M1chl]

No I don´t it is. Never in the console history there has been perfromance/quality mode so prevalent (not the mention few of 120hz). Thus I don´t think that general public will accept games without 40/60 mode. Besides where is the utility of locking game to 30 FPS, first there is going to be way more VRR TVs in public, or if not 60Hz than 120Hz panels. And second, even without a patch, it will run on higher framerate on next-gen consoles. Which is great for keeping these games alive and playable.

Besides people are now surrounded by 120Hz panels everywhere on their PCs, tablets, phones and so on. 60FPS is downgrade, 30FPS is downright jarring.

So all in all I don´t think we are going to see "30FPS future". We will see 30FPS modes, sure, but not as exlusive mode for the game.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Not enough people complaining, work much easier for devs to target 30 instead of 60. Yeah.

 

[Hobbygaming]

What games are even exclusively 30fps on console?

Off of the top of my head A Plague's Tale Requiem, Gotham Knights and The Quarry but we're just getting out of the crossgen phase

 

[M1chl]

Not enough people complaining, work much easier for devs to target 30 instead of 60. Yeah.

I have been on the different internet then, for the redfall situation, MS is getting rightfully roasted. Gotham Knights it was the same. Plague Tale got away, because they had 40FPS mode.

 

[SkylineRKR]

40fps is really good. I tried it in Horizon 2 which was my first 40fps game and I was surprised actually. Its much better than 30, more than one might think. I know its not 60fps, but the benefit is you keep all details and its still very playable.

 

[PeteBull]

It all depends on how taxing/demanding games u wanna have, keep in mind the matrix demo, looking as mindblowing as it was, doesnt even run in stable 30, it has dips below 20 fps when shit hits the fan.

There is ofc strong precendent of midgen console upgrades, those- ofc provided that are at least 2x more powerful vs current ones- could be viable for 60fps mode that looks settings/res wise like 30fps on base consoles, but thats still earliest in 2024, maybe even 2025, depending on how fast we get down 1 more process node and to rdna4 from amd.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

I want the option for 60 fps in my games this gen. When it's not there, I'm going to be less likely to concider the game.

Sony first party have been adding the option in their games, so it seems at least they know it's a desirable feature.

I hope devs pay attention to the reception Redfall is getting and plan accordingly.

 

[Hunnybun]

It's already not 'like it always is'.

60fps modes are almost ubiquitous so far, and that's never happened before. Even with the recent big example of Redfall, the developers are still promising a performance mode, just not at launch.

It's not like it's a very sophisticated argument to spot that the trade off exists and that in the past it was traded off in one direction so therefore it ALWAYS will be. I mean, that COULD be true, but it needs way more analysis than that.

I think as long as it's RELATIVELY easy to reduce resolution for frames, then performance modes will persist. I think developers know that most people don't give a shit, but that the ones who do buy way more games than those who don't. So it's a smallish but significant cohort and it'll be catered to as long as that's reasonably straightforward. I mean, at some point this stuff becomes self-perpetuating anyway. The standard for this generation has more or less been set at this point. Any reversion to 30fps will attract loads of bad PR and that alone is a big factor for developers.

If I had to guess, I'd say that performance modes will remain the default but become a bit less common. It might be 70% of games rather than 95%. And they're likely to increasingly rely on low internal resolutions, like Dead Space. Maybe 1080p if we're lucky. Perhaps some really demanding games towards the end of the generation will rely almost entirely on VRR and the Pro consoles to get there.

I'd be really surprised if things just go back to 30fps across the board. There's clearly a desire to move on from that where possible.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Probably because the vast majority of games have been cross gen so far. As I've said earlier, the PS5 so far is a PS4 Pro² SSD edition and the Series X is an Xbox One X² SSD Edition.

Nonsense. Like saying Jaguar CPU². Both PS5 and XSX CPU's are perfectly capable of running games in 60fps.

 

[Hunnybun]

40fps might be the new standard

PS: according to the film industry with their over several decades of trial and error prior to the 24fps standard, they found out that 48fps is the sweet spot for smoothness and cost, they cut it half to 24fps because of greed, that's the short version of it. Meaning we might not need 60fps to reach a satisfying experience, a stable perfect frame paced 48fps might be good enough

I don't think anyone's ever thought that 60fps is necessarily required, more that with TVs refreshing at 60hz then it's either one or the other for a smooth experience.

40fps isn't that great IMO, but it's waaaay better than 30, which is frankly shit. Eventually VRR screens will become standard and the whole issue will mostly go away anyway. Probably by next gen? Then like you say things might settle at 45-50fps as standard, with scope to go higher or lower as demanded.

 

[JeloSWE]

I don't buy 30fps games. Switch exclusives are the only exception. So no performance mode = no buy.

 

[NikuNashi]

Depends which console you own

 

[Robb]

For sure. Not all games, but for AAA games that push the systems 30fps will definitely be the norm, as usual.

 

[Topher]

Only 30 fps is probably going to be more prevalent, but it won't be the only option for some games. Most games should be able to offer 60 fps. XSX and PS5 are more than capable of doing that if devs allow resolution to be lowered enough just like it is on PC. XSS may be the odd man out eventually, I'm afraid.

Yes. Haters of 30fps grossly exagerrate how 'unplayable' it is. Depending on the type of game, I prefer 30FPS with more bells and whistles over 60FPS with less.
The case of Redfall is different though as the bells and whistles are missing, but in general the reaction is way to dramatic.
30 FPS is perfectly fine and anyone telling otherwise is lying.

30 fps is perfectly fine as an option, but so is 60 fps and both should be there. You talk about "haters of 30 fps" but we've got folks on this forum who are saying 30 fps should be the only option available. So this "drama" works both ways.

 

[Sony]

Only 30 fps is probably going to be more prevalent, but it won't be the only option for some games. Most games should be able to offer 60 fps. XSX and PS5 are more than capable of doing that if devs allow resolution to be lowered enough just like it is on PC. XSS may be the odd man out eventually, I'm afraid.



30 fps is perfectly fine as an option, but so is 60 fps and both should be there. You talk about "haters of 30 fps" but we've got folks on this forum who are saying 30 fps should be the only option available. So this "drama" works both ways.

They're equally as dumb. 30fps has its utility, 60fps has its utility.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

I also don't know why people are saying 30 fps will likely be the future when Final fantasy 16 is a current gen only game that looks good and will be 60 fps out the door.

Devs don't have to make 30 fps games.

 

[Patrick S.]

I was promised a 60/120 fps console, but I got a 30 fps console.

 

[Hunnybun]

Only 30 fps is probably going to be more prevalent, but it won't be the only option for some games. Most games should be able to offer 60 fps. XSX and PS5 are more than capable of doing that if devs allow resolution to be lowered enough just like it is on PC. XSS may be the odd man out eventually, I'm afraid.



30 fps is perfectly fine as an option, but so is 60 fps and both should be there. You talk about "haters of 30 fps" but we've got folks on this forum who are saying 30 fps should be the only option available. So this "drama" works both ways.

Yeah I've never really seen it clearly established exactly WHY consoles should be the '30fps & great graphics' option and PC for frame rates, rather than the other way round. The argument just seems to be 'that's how it's always been so it's obvious'. I mean, which is a geekier concern, 60fps or ray traced ambient occlusion, say??

Why are so many of the biggest games 60fps if players care so much about fidelity?

 

[Topher]

Yeah I've never really seen it clearly established exactly WHY consoles should be the '30fps & great graphics' option and PC for frame rates, rather than the other way round. The argument just seems to be 'that's how it's always been so it's obvious'. I mean, which is a geekier concern, 60fps or ray traced ambient occlusion, say??

Why are so many of the biggest games 60fps if players care so much about fidelity?

Even if it were true at one time, consoles are based on PC tech now and so this narrative of what "should be" is simply false. Image quality and frame rate trade off and consoles are perfectly capable of compromises in either, especially in this age of advanced upscaling technologies.

 

[NEbeast]

Only on xbox .

 

[k_trout]

more frames more cost

 

[damidu]

people only tolerate zelda, because it has to run on a stone tablet. the game would be glorious at higher res/framerate.

the most “powafull” console running an “ok at best” looking fps at 30 is another level of fail. stop the damage control on microsoft behalf