Physiognomonics
Member
72 CUs is not possible. Final clocks will be done with retail APUs, probably not dev kits.
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Rumor: PS5 Pro Codenamed "Trinity" targeting Late 2024 (some alleged specs leaked)
- Thread starter MisterXDTV
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
Dream-Knife
Banned
The 6800 is 60CUs as well. Factory cards had them at 17tf. Easily OC'd to 18.
Do we know for a fact what gen the cpu and gpu are?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Or we have to again cross a mental barrier with consoles’s baseline starting at $499 for slightly larger boxes than PS5 is today which will help for a bit.
Still, outside of some unforeseen breakthrough, technology is advancing at a slower and slower pace (and each new manufacturing node is more expensive to design chips with too) so launching new HW at shorter and shorter intervals feels counterproductive. I expect PS5 Pro to be a smaller relative jump than PS4 Pro and PS6 Pro to be an even smaller one.
Then again, there may be other problems in gaming we do not just solve with additional CU’s and faster clock, I always want to leave some faith to the HW architects ingenuity.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Ok, so do you expect PS6 at 47 TFLOPS in 2028 then?
Caio
Member
At this stage we have just rumors and "leaks", it could be everything. I agree with you about the final specs being set, but the development kits do not represent the final hardware, which most probably will be ready by the beginning of 2024; it might be 60 CUs, 54 active clocked very high, but even under RDNA3, would be enough to deliver true 2X the Performance of the base model with more heavy Ray Tracing ? I'm very curious if you ask me. We'll see soon, I hope.
Caio
Member
Nope, around 60 TF under new AMD Architecture.
MisterXDTV
Member
Sony is not using just AMD PC hardware, we all know it's gonna be heavily customized "RDNA 3.5"
I don't know why people insist comparing PC specs to console's
Caio
Member
No doubt it will be heavily customized, and probably Sony/AMD will manage to achive the 2X the performance plus more heavy Ray Tracing / effects with heavily custom 60 CUs. It sounds hard to believe at first istance, but maybe it can be done.
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All the talk about who is it for.....this is where price is key.
If they do like they did last gen and it takes the launch price....does it really matter?
Like its been mentioned numerous times, before last gen there were slim models that were cheaper and higher price models that mostly added a bigger hard drive.
Who was the more expensive model that mostly added a bigger hard drive for?
en.wikipedia.org
The 360 launched at $299. There were $399 models. Remember the PS3 and $599?
en.wikipedia.org
Xbox Series S 1TB....but who is it for....
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That said, I think 15tf is reasonable for a PS5 Pro. And I expect some ppl to be disappointed with it and the PS6. Just like some were for the PS4 Pro and PS5.
If they do like they did last gen and it takes the launch price....does it really matter?
Like its been mentioned numerous times, before last gen there were slim models that were cheaper and higher price models that mostly added a bigger hard drive.
Who was the more expensive model that mostly added a bigger hard drive for?
List of Xbox 360 retail configurations - Wikipedia
The 360 launched at $299. There were $399 models. Remember the PS3 and $599?
PlayStation 3 models - Wikipedia
Xbox Series S 1TB....but who is it for....
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That said, I think 15tf is reasonable for a PS5 Pro. And I expect some ppl to be disappointed with it and the PS6. Just like some were for the PS4 Pro and PS5.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Your mathing is spot on. From a raster perspective, yes, an 18TF target should be the target. But while 17TF doesn't sound sexy, I think thats around where it would land. Idk, 54CU@2500mhz just sounds right to me. Its around a 10% boost to the current PS5 GPUs clocks. I really do feel tough that there are other parts of RDNA3+ that would be more relevant to this.
Please, enlighten me. How does a Pro console, split the user base?
I believe we are at another paradigm shift in GPU design. The last one was when the 20xx was released with RT. And now, under people's noses, is VOPD (vector operation, dual). This thing has the potential to become a very big deal, and its the only way I see GPU tech advancing in any meaningful way in the short-term (next 10 years). I have considered trying to explain it, and what its current limitations are, but I haven't quite fully understood it myself, so I don't wanna mislead anyone lol. But if used correctly, it really does have the potential to boost performance by another 60%+.
You would be right f the PS5pro was going to have 72CU. just don't see it happening. Not because its not possible... because it is, but more important, because it's not necessary.
Nope. But common sense dictates that the GPU would at least be RDNA3+. As or the CPU, my money is still on Zen 2. But I can see it easily being Zen 4. A higher-clocked Zen 2 CPU with more cache solves all the issues a console that is expected to peak at 120fps could have. The key thing is the more cache part, that's the real bottleneck with the current PS5 CPU.
Even if they put a Zen4 CPU in it, if they gave it the same cache that the current PS5 has, we would have the same issues.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
OK, thx for the response.
I can see that. Add a load more cache to the cpu and target 18tf and it would be a great bump. I'm in day one no matter what lol I need to play wolverine and more the best they can.
Power budget was definitely a problem - Zen wasn't nearly as power efficient in first iterations as it later became, especially compared to Jaguar cores that were designed for efficiency first. But I'd say compatibility has also evolved since then, it was their first time doing it on an x86, so it stands to reason they were more conservative first time around.
Well, compared to Pro - present situation is very different - 7xxx APUs are substantially more power efficient than PS5/XSX at comparable compute, and that goes for CPU and GPU both. If anything, Zen 4 would help there, so I expect the decision driver will be more on cost of design&manufacture (I have no idea of cost structure to design the new APU, but if there's no big differences in choice of CPU cores(and they're already upgrading GPU architecture), they'll probably go for a more recent design).
There's also a lot more precedent for 'types of upgrades' including high framerate modes, so bumping up the CPU isn't seen as a waste. Though it may also be a question of market positioning for future consoles, so who knows.
Physiognomonics
Member
Like this gen main bottleneck is still I/O. And in this area PS5 is highly customized (not using any AMD tech) and efficient.
Have you seen how beast PS5 I/O is in a game fully using it against a very powerful PC? NXGamer did a thorough comparison and PS5 is still better than a RTX3800 + 5800X3D. 3800 has slighly higher average framerate but PS5 has much better framerate consistency (higher min) and frame-time stats.
The game is still a stutter fest on PC compared to PS5. That's using very similar settings with RT reflections + fidelity + VRR. You know the settings DF purposefully didn't test...
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BootsLoader
Banned
After reading many comments, I don’t understand what this thread is about. Should I be disappointed about something?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Most likely so it stays affordable
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Let's keep projecting our 799 consoles into existence!
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Spec.u.la.tion Thr.ead
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- Forum of discussion on theory or conjecture with very little evidence.
-Similar
Fanservice, Day-dreaming, Concern Mongering, Agenda Chanelling, Trolling, Pie in the Skying, Keyboard Cerny Channelling.
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Hudo
Gold Member
fair enough, I legitimately forgot the S.
If MLID is right,AMD supposedly could fit Navi 31 into the space of Navi 32. But that would be a waste because where are the CPUs suppose to go?
MasterCornholio
Member
Haven't really seen any complaints from devs on the X or the PS5. Seems like the Series S is the system some have issues with.
MisterXDTV
Member
I don't even see the point. Navi 31 is a 96 CUs chip. They would have to cut it deep to get it down to 72 (24 CUs disabled)
It's not an efficient choice....
Navi 32 60 CUs with 54 active CUs makes much more sense
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Hudo
Gold Member
"Vanilla" vs. "Pro" is a soft split, in my opinion. By forcing devs to consider two SKU's to develop against. And have features for one version that aren't available for the other (hopefully it will mostly focus on graphics) but we could already observe with the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X that they also offered a 60fps modes, which I think is pretty much an essential feature, which I would already consider a split. Of course, multiplayer then needs to be turned down again to the lowest denominator, so you can't really utilize your Pro there. And then you have a hard split when the next gen consoles come round and you have that cross-gen bullshit all over again until the publishers think that the spread of the new consoles is good enough.
But again, I realize that I am pretty much alone with that sentiment and certainly, the pro versions of these platforms sell. Which is probably why I am not working as a market/product advisor for either companies. Or in general, really. I mean I also think that SUVs are a fundamentally flawed concept and SUVs are one of the most selling classes of vehicles.
Edit: I think both manufacturers should definitely make a Slim version and of course keep revising components (without changing the specs!), so they can be manufactured more easily and can be sold cheaper over time. And then they should focus on the next generation being a bigger jump again.
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Ainem Enamas
Member
They need to be strategically cautious with this balancing what each user wants. I think it simply needs to be as procentional balanced as possible for everyone to be as someone who gains.
BootsLoader
Banned
So it’s a telenovela.
SegaSnatcher
Member
So is this basically PS5 Pro?
I'd wager, kinda. The PS5 Pro will be on N4 most likely, so it might be able to hit over 2.5Ghz for the GPU.
Caio
Member
Yep. I saw the comparison, and PS5 version still the best version, overall. That's impressive.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
You may think of it as a split, but it is not.
And they (at least Sony) are doing that. Still making a slim console without changing specs. Absolutely nothing wrong with them taking the opportunity of the new manufacturing node (that allows for a slim to exist) to also make a Pro console that still gives the same gaming experience but just at a higher quality. More options are not a bad thing.
If anything, I feel they don't even push the pro console as hard as they should. Eg. I cant for the life of me understand why they insist on making pro consoles that come in at the launch price of their current-gen console. What stops them from making an $800 console here? Shouldn't matter as long as the cheaper $399 consoles are still being made.
They should adopt the stance of, here is a PS5. And then 3-4 years later, here is a PS5 if money is not a problem and make a $1000 beast.
Bingo!
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twilo99
Member
One thing I'm certain about is that the "pro" will be a smaller package and it will certainly look better than the PS5, both of which are not hard to achieve considering the size and the looks of the PS5.
Those two alone will be enough for a lot of people to consider the upgrade.
There is no need for that..
Those two alone will be enough for a lot of people to consider the upgrade.
There is no need for that..
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Makes it difficult to market a weaker PS6 then
.
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Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
As someone who would be getting their first PS5, I certainly hope so.
I honestly don't see it being like the PS4 Pro or One X or even like the Series X vs the S. I don't think devs will need to make a "pro version" of anything. It's not like before where devs were like oh now we can go back and make 4k assets or now we can add raytracing when we couldn't before. That's not where the tech is generally at right now. Tons of games are already 4k capable, already using raytracing, and most are using DLSS or FSR to dynamically scale those to good performance as it varies. A pro will simply drive those up higher to get 4k 60fps more often, not make whole new versions of games. I am 100% fine with that and don't think anyone getting a pro would be upset if that were all they got out of it, especially after PS4 Pro already showed that reinvention wasn't the name of the game.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
TDP doesn't work that way. If the PS5pro uses a similar amount of power to the launch PS5 when running? Then it would be the same size.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
they need to launch the ps5pro with the dual sense edge instead of the standard one
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I bet we'll get 60fps Bloodborne this time!!!
Investor9872
Member
That would be around 17 TF Sawyer.
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ShakenG
Member
17 is my guess, 18 tops and 13 minimum.
Still think im a bit high on that 17 but im sticking with it.
Be interesting to see a poll on what people think it'll be.
Thats barely over a 1.5 increase in compute...that would be underwhelming even compared to the conservative ps4 pro which was a 2.2x increase. Why do you feel 17tflops is high exactly? After moving to 4nm and charging an additional premium something below 17tflops would be a rather pathetic upgrade.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Again... RDNA2 TF is not the same as RDNA3 TF.
And with the PS4 pro, they literally increased the physical compute footprint by 100%, then upped the clock by 15%. Of course in a situation like that they will get more than double the performance. Now, they are increasing compute by only 50%. And realistically would be able to increase clocks by say... 20% at best, 10% at worst.
Now more than ever, the architectural differences between RDNA2 vs RDNA3(+), will be more important. And there are many things far more worthy of discussion than a RAW TF number. But that raw TF number will be 15.4TF at worst, maybe 18TF at best. Unless Sony somehow manages to clock that GPU up to 2900mhz. This is irrelevant though, because if its counted like RDNA3 TFs which it would be, that's 30.8TF and 36TF respectively.
It's funny, a lot of this thread has been spent discussing the least important thing about the PS5 Pro.
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Perrott
Member
Why does the Ryzen 7 7800X3D perform better than the Ryzen 9 7950X3D?they need to have 3d cache
insane uplift for data intensive games.
starfield is next!
by comparison, ps5 is right around the r5 3600 in the chart
TheRedRiders
Member
I think it has something to do with the design and core count being different on both cards. The 7950x is also not targeted towards gamers, the card was designed for more specialized workloads which go beyond gaming.
Because the cache isn't evenly distributed. I forgot the core count but the 7950x3D is basically a half 3d CPU bolted with a non x3D CPU.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'd wager somewhere between Bob Hope and no hope.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Two things.
- Cache - 7950x3d has 128MB of cache feeding 32 threads @ 4MB/thread. 7800x3d has 96MB feeding 16 threads @6MB/thread. The threads having more RAM available to it simply means they spend less time being idle. and
- The number of cores - Games are not actually the best thing to use to test overall CPU performance, as usually, games have a very uneven spread when it comes to core/thread utilization. That 16-core CPU you have might as well be a paperweight if the game you are running is optimized to primarily run on just 6 cores.
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twilo99
Member
Assuming they are using the exact same cooling solution, which I doubt very much. They will improve the whole package and the box will certainly be smaller and more aesthetically pleasing.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Looks like the DF crew are back to being very doubtful of a Xbox mid-gen console and basically against and sceptical of a PS5 Pro albeit Rich thinks it might well happen.