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This video game trend is killing Single Player games
- Thread starter Heaven Angel
- Start date
- Opinion
ahtlas7
Member
Something was lost in
Men_in_Boxes
Banned
That would be Atari, Acclaim, and Visceral
Heaven Angel
Member
It's also about devs who are forced to make something which is out of their ideal league. Creative minds are getting slacked because whales need more food (money) for their next (used and reused) title. Corporates like MS don't have enough resources to sustain them? although later admit that they need titles like Hi-fi Rush. And today announced that next COD (which could supposedly sold for 70+ $$$) is coming for almost free on gamepass (to increase those gp numbers a little bit higher)
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
This mostly issue on western gaming industry over spending on game development and when those highly expensive GAAS game fail then other studio from same company suffer and even get shutdown because the company owns them lost lot of money……that basically what happened with Tango.It's also about devs who are forced to make something which is out of their ideal league. Creative minds are getting slacked because whales need more food (money) for their next (used and reused) title. Corporates like MS don't have enough resources to sustain them? although later admit that they need titles like Hi-fi Rush. And today announced that next COD (which could supposedly sold for 70+ $$$) is coming for almost free on gamepass (to increase those gp numbers a little bit higher)
Then you look at FromSoftware…they consistently release quality game without being GaaS or live service crap and still make profit and free to make the games they want to make.….what are they doing different?
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I love a walking simulator, but yes they are relatively niche, or poorly marketed. They have a strong appeal for both older and female gamers. Either way, what walking simulators absolutely should not be is big budget titles.
Humdinger
Gold Member
Good point. If there are only so many Live service customers to go around, and most of these customers are already locked into one of a dozen games that dominate the Live service market, then it's going to be hard for new games to find a foothold, especially near the top.
What you'll get, then - and maybe we already have it, I don't know - is a small percentage of Live service games making all the money, and the vast majority floundering. That wouldn't be much different than what you see in the book publishing industry. Maybe 2% of the books generate over 90% of the sales, and the rest of the books - the overwhelming majority - sell diddly. The publishing house uses the money from the big blockbusters to fund all the other books, most of which are commercial flops. Same in the movie industry, as I understand it.
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IAmRei
Member
Even more flop in GAAS side as far as i know
Hudo
Gold Member
I saw you and Tzu talking. But why were you shirtless?
Johnny Concrete
Member
I like both. I want both.
That an option?
That an option?
Skifi28
Member
So you wouldn't focus on the pants I also didn't wear. Mission accomplished.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Hudo
Gold Member
You outsmarted me. But to be fair, I may have been tripping anyway.
Heaven Angel
Member
Exactly, I say their top priority is to make quality single player game and then a small team for multiplayer using the same gameplay structure from single player. No commitment on regular updates, no greed to hold the playerbase, no competition. Just play for fun. It was the same in TLOU (PS3) where ND made a world class single player and then there was a mp mode included which I played for quite sometime. I say that's a good way to lure more players in for both rather than dividing them.
Men_in_Boxes
Banned
You're still missing two things...
1. These companies don't want to shift to GAAS. They're built to make SP. They think the risk is worth it because they see the train tracks ahead.
2. From Software is the exception that proves the rule (trend). As large markets shift, there are ALWAYS examples of success using "the old ways". The trend is what's important.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
I wish AAA devs would start making smaller games in general. Not every game has to be photo-realistic, or have 30 hours of gameplay. I’d rather have 3 games with polished concepts that only last 5-6 hours a piece, than one game with a bunch of bloat that has 60 hours.
Jaybe
Member
Same. I’ll take 5 to 6 hours and give me some reason to replay it a few times in new game+, be it fun modes, new weapons, changing enemy placement, etc. I’d also like ti see them to scale back or remove cinematics.
Heaven Angel
Member
Lambogenie
Member
I don't think gaming is dead or anything. Less interesting for me , sure.
The other thing hurting games are design by committee, American sensitivity in particular and that sort of thing.
The domestic China and Japan games do what they want. They don't give a shit because the game probably won't get localised. They'll align with their own culture and not a global (American) one. Once you want global you reach it defaults to what America deems ok and they forget certains are OK in other parts of the world.
With AI tools and explosion, small publishers can just use those for quick localisation patches. I'd rather have that than current day loclaisers.
This a big issue I have with publishers currently. Too much sensitivity checks where actually all that's being done is allowing some groups to dictate over the artists and designers. It's annoying. Slight suggestions is ok. But it's full on flagging major changes just because someone found something sensitive to _themselves_
The other thing hurting games are design by committee, American sensitivity in particular and that sort of thing.
The domestic China and Japan games do what they want. They don't give a shit because the game probably won't get localised. They'll align with their own culture and not a global (American) one. Once you want global you reach it defaults to what America deems ok and they forget certains are OK in other parts of the world.
With AI tools and explosion, small publishers can just use those for quick localisation patches. I'd rather have that than current day loclaisers.
This a big issue I have with publishers currently. Too much sensitivity checks where actually all that's being done is allowing some groups to dictate over the artists and designers. It's annoying. Slight suggestions is ok. But it's full on flagging major changes just because someone found something sensitive to _themselves_
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Not only are single player games less prevalent now than they used to be, but now there has been a rise in GaaS F2P single player games like Genshin Impact or Wuthering Waves.
JimmyRustler
Member
Unpopular opinion: Backwards compatibility was a mistake.
Don’t make it so easy to wait for sales. Gamers are lazy as fuck and having them replug an old console to play old games would have made a worlds difference for new games.
Don’t make it so easy to wait for sales. Gamers are lazy as fuck and having them replug an old console to play old games would have made a worlds difference for new games.
Gaas is beyond Sony and MS understanding, there are actual limit to the console industry understanding of gaas, it's not how long you've been in this industry, it's being there "pc" from the beginning, otherwise, all these decisions wouldn't be so wrong.
PC and mobile need acknowledgement from the console market.
PC and mobile need acknowledgement from the console market.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
GaaS games are like MMOs. You only have time to really invest in one. And most of them are designed to waste your time. And not in a good way.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
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Heaven Angel
Member
Tried genshin impact, a character with higher damage, looks great, plays better for $$ after a few days, another one which is even better for $$ and it goes on. Stopped asap.
I like when people realize that old titles are still valuable and amuse you.
JimmyRustler
Member
They’ve done that before backwards compatibility too. The problem with it is that the game portfolio only gets bigger exponentially with each gen and since graphics have started showing diminishing returns for quite some time now it became super easy to just wait for a few months before buying a newly released game. Couple that with buggy releases and long dev time with high budgets and you have the ultimate storm.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Gameranx? Lol
I just like good games, both singleplayer and GaaS.
If we would only have singleplayer games, there'd be little to play as I consider any singleplayer worth a single playthrough.
I also don't care about completing games, most of the content outside of main stories is just needless padding for the sake of checking boxes.
GaaS is what makes players engaged for a much longer period of time.
I just like good games, both singleplayer and GaaS.
If we would only have singleplayer games, there'd be little to play as I consider any singleplayer worth a single playthrough.
I also don't care about completing games, most of the content outside of main stories is just needless padding for the sake of checking boxes.
GaaS is what makes players engaged for a much longer period of time.
Mobilemofo
Member
Not only is there too much GaaS, it's stinky GaaS. Someone had the phal curry and neglected to mention it..you little shits.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
If single player offline game stop to exist one day, I will simply stop gaming and my play my infinite physical backlog until my death.
Durin
Member
I just want single-player games that aren't cinematic, but gameplay focused that take a risk, and I'm fine with lower production values.
I'd also like more co-op games that are campaign focused as well, where I can go through an experience with my friends, even repeat it if we want...but I don't need or want these forever updated games that usually end up failing and shutting their servers down anyway.
Also the only "forever" game I want is one where modders just keep pumping out content that I'll go back to like I did with Warcraft 3, UT2K4, etc.
I'd also like more co-op games that are campaign focused as well, where I can go through an experience with my friends, even repeat it if we want...but I don't need or want these forever updated games that usually end up failing and shutting their servers down anyway.
Also the only "forever" game I want is one where modders just keep pumping out content that I'll go back to like I did with Warcraft 3, UT2K4, etc.
rm082e
Member
Yeah, this exactly. I have more total hours of gaming in my backlog than I am likely to have available for at least the next 10 years. I have games from the 360/PS3 era that I bought, never played, and keep telling myself I need to get back to at some point.If single player offline game stop to exist one day, I will simply stop gaming and my play my infinite physical backlog until my death.
Not to mention I could spend a good 4-5 years replaying through all my favorite games again and still enjoy them.
Heaven Angel
Member
There are many of them but the upcoming one which came right cross my mind is 40k Warhammer Space Marine. It's going to have both. Looking good as well.
If single player offline game stop to exist one day, I will simply stop gaming and my play my infinite physical backlog until my death.
A friend of mine loves physical media. He's a collector of video game discs. Have a wonderful library of it. Say the same thing IF everything goes digital.
Yep, depends what kind of games keeps you engaged.
Single player can be played as many times, for some one is enough and more for others, depends on the game and updates. They give you complete experience within the story and respects your time and money.
If you don't mind doing same shit endlessly then gaas is for you as they have insane amount of repetitiveness with extremely low rewards.
cireza
Member
I am playing single player offline games all the time, how are these games dying already ? There have never been so many RPGs to play, to pick a genre.
Back then in Europe during the 16/32 bits era, there weren't a lot of them, so I bought all of them and played all of them. Nowadays ? I have to decide which ones I play as it is impossible to play them all.
If you are worried about these games, then simply do like me and buy them full price at launch. You get to enjoy them day-one, you get a collectors edition if you want, and you show your support to the developer.
GaaS and whatever F2P games moving mountains of money is irrelevant. You don't have to move the same amount of money to be profitable in an entirely different genre. Not every single game needs to have absurdly high budget.
Back then in Europe during the 16/32 bits era, there weren't a lot of them, so I bought all of them and played all of them. Nowadays ? I have to decide which ones I play as it is impossible to play them all.
If you are worried about these games, then simply do like me and buy them full price at launch. You get to enjoy them day-one, you get a collectors edition if you want, and you show your support to the developer.
GaaS and whatever F2P games moving mountains of money is irrelevant. You don't have to move the same amount of money to be profitable in an entirely different genre. Not every single game needs to have absurdly high budget.
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Durin
Member
Yeah, I, saw the 3 player mode which is neat, but it's becoming a rarer trend with AAA is my only real point. AA and lower there are still plenty of good options coming out.
Barakov
Gold Member
Killjoy-NL
Member
Basically multiplayer in a nutshell, but for most of those games the fun comes from competitiveness or co-op.
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EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
err...neither is a "trend", neither is killing the industry.
Risk is involved in all major investment. You can have a GaaS game fail, you can have a single player game fail.
I agree.
I don't care for how folks try to use this term as they are just describing an online game and trying to force the term to mean something new thing lol
So I feel, like all things ,you'll have good, you'll have bad and I agree that it seems many are just looking to use the term for some general hate type thing.
Risk is involved in all major investment. You can have a GaaS game fail, you can have a single player game fail.
I agree.
I don't care for how folks try to use this term as they are just describing an online game and trying to force the term to mean something new thing lol
So I feel, like all things ,you'll have good, you'll have bad and I agree that it seems many are just looking to use the term for some general hate type thing.
Heaven Angel
Member
Risk is everywhere but there are certain levels of risk involved. In gaas the risk is significantly higher than investing in a single player. Even more if it's a F2P model. Also gaas is appealing for short term investment, In single player the investors keep reaping higher benefits in the future.
yurinka
Member
GaaS originated in PC, not in mobile.
Raven77
Member
"Ultimately, the mindless pursuit of profit over rational business planning is the real problem."
I actually disagree with this completely.
Their of nothing mindless about it.
The REQUIRED pursuit of profit (to please stakeholders, to keep the studio alive, to earn back more than the games budget, etc). Business planning likely has nothing to do with it.
Games are expensive to produce and have not gone up in price in over 30-40 years. Imagine producing something in the 1990's for $1 million dollars with a consumer cost of $60. Then 30 years later you are producing the same thing but for $100 million...and still charging $60.
Inflated budgets and stagnant game prices ARE the real problem.
REDRZA MWS
Member
I didn’t answer because you can play online multiplayer on a ton of games without GaaS nonsense. I also really enjoy GREAT single player games with great story/lore, and unbeatable gameplay, ala Elden Ring!
To me GaaS is in a diff category all by itself. I’ve hated it since inception.
To me GaaS is in a diff category all by itself. I’ve hated it since inception.
Killjoy-NL
Member
You got it all backwards.
Gaas is a long-term investment, so people don't get burned out from a game, as happens with singleplayer games.
BbMajor7th
Member
The gaming market in 1990 was a tiny fraction of the size it is today. Successful games now sell in the tens of millions rather than the hundreds of thousands. That's ignoring the fact that games are no longer $60 (more often $70) and that most of the highest-budget titles will pad out those sales with deluxe edition SKUs, early access, DLC, expansions, MTX, 'complete edition' reissues, ports, paid-for next-gen updates and much more besides. Not only that, gaming as a medium is far more financially lucrative, with additional profits being made through co-marketing partnerships, product placement, IP crossover and more. You're not comparing apples to apples; you're comparing apples to orchards.
The gaming market is suffering right now because of free market zealotry and the unhinged belief that company profits can continue to grow exponentially, year on year, into forever. During the pandemic, all of these tech companies posted record profits that were, to any sane onlooker, a one-time windfall that could not be repeated. Nonetheless, every CEO looked his shareholders in the eye said 'no, it's a growth curve'. They set their budgets accordingly, overspent and then failed to hit targets. Now you have the ridiculous situation, where a company like Sony, who's enjoyed more success in the last decade than any pundit anywhere in the industry could have even imagined (let alone predicted) laying off staff in the hundreds while breaking records every quarter.
How can that be? Because while the company delivered record-breaking sales, it had promised impossible levels of profit. A mindless focus on money, specifically year-on-year growth, is what is causing these problems. It's why IPs are being rinsed into irrelevance by publishers who can no longer afford to take risks on new content because every penny they spend needs to be a guaranteed profit spinner. So, they copy what already works, ignoring the inescapable fact that once they've mined every last penny out of these IPs and game trends, they won't have anything new to replace it.
Good planning means keeping an eye on where you'll be in five or ten years, not just spinning out more and more of the same with shinier graphics, but laying the foundations for what comes after that.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Thats going to be based on budget as that differs from game to game regardless of single player or online.
? That makes no sense, we see many online games that have existed for a few generations that clearly is making the publisher money, look at World Of Warcraft
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www.wowhead.com
What fucking single player game from 2004 is giving some investor a higher benefit? lol the fuck?
Heaven Angel
Member
That's quite the opposite, you get devastatingly burned out in gaas games which actually makes you do the same things 100x maybe 1000x of times. Single player have an end so you play at your own leisure and pace, one completed you move to next or replay it's upto you.
Sure if publishers like Blizzard Ent. nickel and dime their customers then yes your favorite publisher will be making a lots of money and bad reputation. If you keep giving examples of these 10-15 whales in the market out of hundreds of thousands of gaas/mmo and online then you'll always see big numbers.
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Like the fucking Single Player games like the fucking iconic display picture you fucking have kept. People don't fucking want another fucking world of warcraft but want another fucking Metal Gear Solid. Yea the fuck.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
? ok..but this is not asking about your feelings or emotions regarding this, this is telling you factually publishers have made money long term on these concepts, so this whole "short term investment" makes zero sense, in fact that likely better describes a single player game more then anything.
And? You can fucking list 10 or 15 single player games that moved past 30 million or something lol
Sir, this means those games still fucking had long term success, but acting as if HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS didn't thus means something is just as dumb as me saying you can only name 10 to 15 single player games that moved 30 mill or something as if hundreds of thousands SHOULD be doing that or something weird like that.
ummm ok, yea soooo I don't even fucking play World Of Warcraft and I don't give a shit about the IP, my point has NOTHING to do with what I personally like or hate or anything fucking childish like that, its telling you we have many online games that support the idea of them being long term investments.
So...you just sound hurt cause you can't tell me 1 single player game from 2004 making anything near WoW or something for anything you said to make sense lol
I'm sorry man, I got to block you. You are waaaaaaay too emotional and seem to take anything thats being said too personally.
Dirk Benedict
Member
Basically, there is room for both, for varying reasons.
Still, the landscape is changing and it does seem more "social" which we Can equate to GaaS, Shitnite, etc.
cs and tf2 are not GaaS. The game store that enables micro-transactions is a service but you still buy (digital) products.
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