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[onQ123]

I learned something new today about the PS4 design in the Wii U "Latte" thread:

That's not new this is how it was in the 1st leak.


MEMORY:

2 GByte UMA, pushing for 4 GByte
192 GByte/ sec non-coherent access for e.g. GPU
12 GByte/ sec coherent access for CPU
>50% longer memory latency for CPU/ GPU compared to PC!!!
DXT is lowest bpp texture compression format

 

[artist]

I learned something new today about the PS4 design in the Wii U "Latte" thread:

This was known for a while but as usual Stevie being Stevie.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

That's not new this is how it was in the 1st leak.


MEMORY:

2 GByte UMA, pushing for 4 GByte
192 GByte/ sec non-coherent access for e.g. GPU
12 GByte/ sec coherent access for CPU
>50% longer memory latency for CPU/ GPU compared to PC!!!
DXT is lowest bpp texture compression format

Ram prices fell faster then expected. Makes me wonder what it would have been like had they not, ditto for the Xbone.

 

[tensuke]

I have stated that i would be shocked if a single game ran better on xbone!

Place your bets!

Well, Ryse is going to run much better on Xbone...

Spoiler

because it's not coming to PS4

I learned something new today about the PS4 design in the Wii U "Latte" thread:

Yeah I think they started with 2GB, then moved up to 4GB, then some devs really pushed for 8GB and it became cheap enough, so they upgraded again.

 

[Manmademan]

Well, Ryse is going to run much better on Xbone...

Spoiler

because it's not coming to PS4

Yeah I think they started with 2GB, then moved up to 4GB, then some devs really pushed for 8GB and it became cheap enough, so they upgraded again.

yeah. this has been consistently the rumor. it's also why no one thinks the PS4 OS is going to be over 1 gig. wouldn't have been workable with 2 or 4 gigs of RAM.

 

[SwiftDeath]

yeah. this has been consistently the rumor. it's also why no one thinks the PS4 OS is going to be over 1 gig. wouldn't have been workable with 2 or 4 gigs of RAM.

I do think the increase in ram will likely lead to a larger memory footprint for the OS as there's enough to go around

But shouldn't be that large I imagine

 

[Timemuffin]

As a junior member, it is impressive how many pages this thread has gone. I honestly have no idea how you guys can discuss this same topic with different title so vigorously.

 

[Donny]

The real difference is

They are smiling

 

[CLEEK]

Yeah I think they started with 2GB, then moved up to 4GB, then some devs really pushed for 8GB and it became cheap enough, so they upgraded again.

Likewise, the Xbone was always targeting a big chunk of DDR3 to allow for the non-gaming functionality, so they knew they needed a fast cache of on-board RAM to compensated.

If the PS4 had shipped with 4GB GDDR5 and the Xbone 8GB of DDR3, these threads would be more interesting, as the Xbone would have an actual, big advantage in one area.

 

[tensuke]

I do think the increase in ram will likely lead to a larger memory footprint for the OS as there's enough to go around

But shouldn't be that large I imagine

Yeah I think the increase definitely gave them a little bit of breathing room on the OS, I couldn't imagine them staying with just 1GB if they really increased total RAM that much. It may not need that much at launch, and they may be able to whittle it down like they did on PS3, but I think they've been better at future-proofing with GPGPU and Gaikai, and are likely allowing some extra memory for OS functions they haven't finished/thought of yet. And if they have a good bit reserved, they can worry less about optimizing the OS's memory footprint at launch which can speed up development for the time being, and worry about fitting it in as they add/update features.

They are smiling

Singing too!

 

[Wynnebeck]

This was known for a while but as usual Stevie being Stevie.

Kinda crazy to think how back before the Feb. 20th reveal, everyone was expecting to hear 4GB of GDDR5 and got 8GB instead. I know I literally rubbed my eyes to make sure I was reading the graphic correctly.

 

[nib95]

As a junior member, it is impressive how many pages this thread has gone. I honestly have no idea how you guys can discuss this same topic with different title so vigorously.

It's because people bring in new variables to the table that need deconstruction, confirmation, rebuttal, theory etc. And such discussions lead to others and so on. Who ever said tech discussions were a simple thing?

 

[bobbytkc]

Cancel your Xbone pre-order and get yourself a Gabecube.

I already have a gabecube, it is called a pc.

 

[onQ123]

Ram prices fell faster then expected. Makes me wonder what it would have been like had they not, ditto for the Xbone.

Sony going with GDDR5 was basically playing chicken with a Mack Truck but some how they won.


now they just have to figure out what to do with all this RAM.

 

[slicedmass]

Less than 2 months until we can actually see some of the multiplats compared. Then its just 1-2 more years till we see if a real big difference is seen.

 

[onQ123]

Kinda crazy to think how back before the Feb. 20th reveal, everyone was expecting to hear 4GB of GDDR5 and got 8GB instead. I know I literally rubbed my eyes to make sure I was reading the graphic correctly.

We got the news of 8GB before the reveal but no one wanted to believe that Sony could go with 8GB of GDDR5.

 

[patchday]

Gameplay hasn't needed an upgrade in decades now (aside from maybe physics engines, which have been laughably atrocious for decades now as well). All new consoles are about graphical power. They aren't even terribly pragmatic for that.

I think I misread this statement. Havok has been around for quite awhile and has been widely regarded as the leader (rigid bodies, cloth, etc) by most developers. iRacing is the leader for racing physics and these guys have been doing their thing since Atari (edit- correction, Indy 500 was on DOS, Amiga btw my bad!)

 

[ethomaz]

I'm impressed... there are two big threads talking about the same thing right now in GAF... POWER!

 

[Biker19]

I have stated that I would be shocked if a single game ran better on xbone!

Place your bets!

Well, as far as I can assume, genres like JRPG's, Fighting Games, & Hack & Slash games like Dynasty Warriors will all be lead platform on PS4 just like with most of those type of games that were the lead platform on the PS3 (see here). Why?

Because there's more of an audience for those type of genres on Playstation platforms (their consoles & handhelds) than on Xbox consoles, especially when the Xbox brand isn't exactly very huge in Japan.

Heck, it's happening with Final Fantasy XV already:

Link.

Q: As you continue with development, have you noticed anything about the performance of PlayStation 4?

A: From a developer's point of view, the most interesting point about the hardware is its memory. This is because the more memory you have, the more you can do the impossible.

Q: What kind of "impossible" things do you want to do?

A: The more data you can permanently keep in memory, the more you can decrease loading frequency, and the bigger the scale you can develop. Like we were talking about before, the reason we can produce a lot in real-time is thanks to the amount of memory we have. Because the amount of movements characters make during battle and the amount of weapon types in the game are both numerous, I think the amount of data that needs to be stored works well with PlayStation 4.

Based on this interview, the producer talks about how the PS4 has great memory to run this game smoother then the Xbox One. He does not come out and say it, but based on what he has said, you can make that conclusion since PS4 has GDDR5 and more available memory for gaming. While the Xbox One also has 8 GB's of RAM inside Xbox One, it's DDR3 RAM in which is very slow & outdated in this day & age.

 

[Alebrije]

Less than 2 months until we can actually see some of the multiplats compared. Then its just 1-2 more years till we see if a real big difference is seen.

Yep , let the games speak.

 

[nib95]

We got the news of 8GB before the reveal but no one wanted to believe that Sony could go with 8GB of GDDR5.

The larger GDDR5 chips only became available around the same time as Sony announced 8GB would be in the retail console. So it was very difficult to see it happening without hindsight.

 

[Donny]

Singing too!

HAHAHAHA nice!!!

 

[dapong]

At this point Nothing MS did or gave away could make me Preorder an XB1.

Instead of spending money making their HW the best MS spent a boat load of cash on timed exclusives . If they can get you to drop your cash for the "Illusion" of exclusivity they have you for the life of the console.

For me to ever buy one Microsoft better be holding something back I haven't seen before.

This here is one of the reasons why I can never support the Xbox one. Moves like this only serve to hold back and even damage the gaming industry. Examples:

1) paying for timed exclusives does nothing but hold back great titles for other platforms. It doesn't help developers, nor does it even help Xbox gamers, who are essentially getting a multiplat game instead of an exclusive which has been optimised for that console

2) once again, putting out an underpowered console and once again, multiplats may have to be made for the lowest common denominator instead of developers being able to push their limits and make the best game they can, thus not progressing the game development

3) finally, introducing a paywall all those years ago. If they hadnt , we may not have one now. They essentially introduced the concept, and guess what, now everyone has to pay for mp. Who knows what other costs or features they decide to put behind a paywall

 

[DieH@rd]

The larger GDDR5 chips only became available around the same time as Sony announced 8GB would be in the retail console. So it was very difficult to see it happening without hindsight.

I was one of the rare Gaffers who fully believed into arrival of 512MB GDDR5 chips, and I knew about abbility of GDDR5 to work in clamshell mode... but even I did not anticipate that they will go with 16 chips.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46312657#post46312657

BTW, hynix announced that in Q3/Q4 2012, so there was a lot of speculation about arrival of 8Gbit GDDR5 on B3D, especially after Edge Online mentioned that Sony wants to "match" MS. Many speculated that "matching" means only "smaller pool but faster ram".

Goddamn, when Cerny announced 8GB of GDDR5. My mind was blown.

 

[Timemuffin]

It's because people bring in new variables to the table that need deconstruction, confirmation, rebuttal, theory etc. And such discussions lead to others and so on. Who ever said tech discussions were a simple thing?

Maybe. But this looks more like a dog chasing it's own tail.

 

[tensuke]

I was one of the rare Gaffers who fully believed into arrival of 512MB GDDR5 chips, and I knew about abbility of GDDR5 to work in clamshell mode... but even I did not anticipate that they will go with 16 chips.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46312657#post46312657

Man, that thread. So good.
"Please don't get people's hope up with 4GB GDDR5."

It'll be fun to revisit this thread in a few months.

 

[DonMigs85]

I still wonder what the CPU clock is... Hopefully 2GHz instead of just 1.6

 

[onQ123]

The larger GDDR5 chips only became available around the same time as Sony announced 8GB would be in the retail console. So it was very difficult to see it happening without hindsight.

Yeah I know that's why I said Sony played Chicken with a Mack Truck & somehow won.




on a side note I sometimes wonder if we lost somethings that was going to be in the PS4 hardware to get this 8GB of GDDR5? but I'm happy with the outcome.

 

[satam55]

On the topic of dedicated servers from a few of pages ago, 3rd-party developers/publishers are responsible for the servers of their own games, not the platform holder. Sony is only responsible for the servers for PSN and their own 1st & 2nd party games. Microsoft is is only responsible for the servers for XBL and their own 1st & 2nd party games.

 

[Freshmaker]

h
SOMEONE PLEASE CONVINCE ME TO KEEP MY XBONE PREORDER! PLEASE! Tell me everything is going to be ok. =[

Depends on the games you want to play really. If you like the MS lineup, this power gap shouldn't be a huge deal.

PS4 is pretty much guaranteed to have superior multiplatform titles though.

 

[nib95]

I was one of the rare Gaffers who fully believed into arrival of 512MB GDDR5 chips, and I knew about abbility of GDDR5 to work in clamshell mode... but even I did not anticipate that they will go with 16 chips.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46312657#post46312657

BTW, hynix announced that in Q3/Q4 2012, so there was a lot of speculation about arrival of 8Gbit GDDR5 on B3D, especially after Edge Online mentioned that Sony wants to "match" MS. Many speculated that "matching" means only "smaller pool but faster ram".

Goddamn, when Cerny announced 8GB of GDDR5. My mind was blown.

Good call. Seemed so unlikely at the time.

 

[USC-fan]

I was one of the rare Gaffers who fully believed into arrival of 512MB GDDR5 chips, and I knew about abbility of GDDR5 to work in clamshell mode... but even I did not anticipate that they will go with 16 chips.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46312657#post46312657

BTW, hynix announced that in Q3/Q4 2012, so there was a lot of speculation about arrival of 8Gbit GDDR5 on B3D, especially after Edge Online mentioned that Sony wants to "match" MS. Many speculated that "matching" means only "smaller pool but faster ram".

Goddamn, when Cerny announced 8GB of GDDR5. My mind was blown.

Yep just crazy thinking back to beginning of this year. Comment like:

"Please don't get people's hope up with 4GB GDDR5."
"IDK man 4GB GDDR5 seems unlikely."
"There's absolutely no chance that Sony have got 8GB in the PS4. 4GB maximum imo."

lol

 

[Kleegamefan]

Hey so did the XB1 have a "Chief Architect" as did Sony? I have always been curious of this. Thanks.

IIRC, Mark Whitten

 

[onQ123]

I was one of the rare Gaffers who fully believed into arrival of 512MB GDDR5 chips, and I knew about abbility of GDDR5 to work in clamshell mode... but even I did not anticipate that they will go with 16 chips.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=46312657#post46312657

BTW, hynix announced that in Q3/Q4 2012, so there was a lot of speculation about arrival of 8Gbit GDDR5 on B3D, especially after Edge Online mentioned that Sony wants to "match" MS. Many speculated that "matching" means only "smaller pool but faster ram".

Goddamn, when Cerny announced 8GB of GDDR5. My mind was blown.

Lets go a little deeper lol

Crytek wants 8GB of RAM in next-gen consoles

 

[Skeff]

As a junior member, it is impressive how many pages this thread has gone. I honestly have no idea how you guys can discuss this same topic with different title so vigorously.

But the DRM made things incredible on the xbox one.

The ability to discuss games consoles on a gaming message board is to be expected. The only truly impressive thing I've seen tonight is your opinion on the original xbox one DRM.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I never understood XBL having a better online infrastructure being taken as a fact

Where is the hard evidence?

Do we have the actual number of games on either system that have been proven to have dedicated systems? (PS3 & X360 I mean)

It always seemed to be an assumption to me

Although I'll certainly conceded that PSN download speeds seem to be worse but that didn't seem to be the discussion here

Honestly though download speeds aren't as low as people think. I downloaded Puppeteer recently at 2-3mb/s.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Lets go a little deeper lol

Crytek wants 8GB of RAM in next-gen consoles

lol SO much crow was eaten from that thread .

 

[Timemuffin]

The ability to discuss games consoles on a gaming message board is to be expected. The only truly impressive thing I've seen tonight is your opinion on the original xbox one DRM.

Still stand by it. You've also managed to miss the entire thread of that conversation where I think i laid out a pretty good explanation why It was good policy for spreading out my digital Xbox One collection over the consoles of friends and family. Not going to go through it again here just because you felt like like dragging the whole discussion into this other thread. I think the DRM policies made sense. Sorry.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

This thread is tearing my heart apart.

I have the XBONE Day One edition on pre-order at Gamestop. I really want to stick with them as I've put so much time into xbox getting my gamerscore to almost 50k. But with all this news, I dont want to be an early adopter then end up getting butt-screwed by M$ and they release a better updated xbox one within a year.


SOMEONE PLEASE CONVINCE ME TO KEEP MY XBONE PREORDER! PLEASE! Tell me everything is going to be ok. =[

I really don't want to start all over on the PS4 and also I'll deeply miss Halo and I want to try Titanfall. Plus I fuggin hated the PS controller ever since I laid my hands on an xbox one. But I refuse to get a subpar system. Someone give me advice, my head hurts now and I dont know what to do.

New PS4 controller is supposed to be really good If you're on the fence why don't you wait until both consoles launch and make your decision then

 

[andromeduck]

I learned something new today about the PS4 design in the Wii U "Latte" thread:

from what I've heard it started at 2 then moved to 4 naturally as memory prices fell then a few guys at a meeting said "if the ps4 doesn't have 8 gigs of ram it's dead" or something like that and then the PS4 had 8 gigs of memory

 

[Tripolygon]

This thread is tearing my heart apart.

I have the XBONE Day One edition on pre-order at Gamestop. I really want to stick with them as I've put so much time into xbox getting my gamerscore to almost 50k. But with all this news, I dont want to be an early adopter then end up getting butt-screwed by M$ and they release a better updated xbox one within a year.


SOMEONE PLEASE CONVINCE ME TO KEEP MY XBONE PREORDER! PLEASE! Tell me everything is going to be ok. =[

I really don't want to start all over on the PS4 and also I'll deeply miss Halo and I want to try Titanfall. Plus I fuggin hated the PS controller ever since I laid my hands on an xbox one. But I refuse to get a subpar system. Someone give me advice, my head hurts now and I dont know what to do.

 

[StevieP]

This was known for a while but as usual Stevie being Stevie.

Hey! What's that mean! I learneded people some things they didn't know after all

It's not like I'm being cross posted in a 113 page thread dedicated to which (non curaçao based lol) sub 2tf console is more powerful than the other by relatively small amounts being the most active thread in an age where >4tf hardware was released years ago.

Lol sorry. My ears were burning.
(And I didn't post it as if it were some new revelation either obviously)

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Hey! What's that mean! I learneded people some things they didn't know after all

It's not like I'm being cross posted in a 113 page thread dedicated to which (non curaçao based lol) sub 2tf console is more powerful than the other by relatively small amounts being the most active thread in an age where >4tf hardware was released years ago.

Lol sorry. My ears were burning.
(And I didn't post it as if it were some new revelation either obviously)

Must be fun to go through life thinking Mark Cerney was just aimlessly wandering around the design room and "lucked" into 8GB GDDR. No chance Sony was keeping up with what their supply contractors were planning in terms of product rollout. All "luck."

 

[Tabular]

Hey! What's that mean! I learneded people some things they didn't know after all

It's not like I'm being cross posted in a 113 page thread dedicated to which (non curaçao based lol) sub 2tf console is more powerful than the other by relatively small amounts being the most active thread in an age where >4tf hardware was released years ago.

Lol sorry. My ears were burning.
(And I didn't post it as if it were some new revelation either obviously)

Typical elitist bs right there lol.

 

[onQ123]

LOL

 

[malboroking]

Hey! What's that mean! I learneded people some things they didn't know after all

It's not like I'm being cross posted in a 113 page thread dedicated to which (non curaçao based lol) sub 2tf console is more powerful than the other by relatively small amounts being the most active thread in an age where >4tf hardware was released years ago.

Lol sorry. My ears were burning.
(And I didn't post it as if it were some new revelation either obviously)

4TFlop hardware that is years old? Please direct me to these video cards that are multiple years olds and greater than 4Tf.

No seriously, I didn't know there were video cards that are 2+ years old greater tha. 4Tflop.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

This thread is tearing my heart apart.

I have the XBONE Day One edition on pre-order at Gamestop. I really want to stick with them as I've put so much time into xbox getting my gamerscore to almost 50k. But with all this news, I dont want to be an early adopter then end up getting butt-screwed by M$ and they release a better updated xbox one within a year.


SOMEONE PLEASE CONVINCE ME TO KEEP MY XBONE PREORDER! PLEASE! Tell me everything is going to be ok. =[

I really don't want to start all over on the PS4 and also I'll deeply miss Halo and I want to try Titanfall. Plus I fuggin hated the PS controller ever since I laid my hands on an xbox one. But I refuse to get a subpar system. Someone give me advice, my head hurts now and I dont know what to do.

Christ, stick with the Xbone dude. The system will be fine. You are reacting like the Xbone will be a piece of dogshit, lol.

There will be no better xbox in a year. They will not release a system that has a better graphics card or whatever. It will be a good system and you will enjoy it. Trust me.

As for the controller, the DS4 is supposedly amazing just FYI. Like, even Xbox people are liking it.

However, expect a reversal of multiplat games from this gen to the next. You know how the 360 game is superior 9/10. Well, expect a reversal. The PS4 version will be superior. Not sure by how much though. Could be a lot going by this thread.

 

[Yoday]

This thread is tearing my heart apart.

I have the XBONE Day One edition on pre-order at Gamestop. I really want to stick with them as I've put so much time into xbox getting my gamerscore to almost 50k. But with all this news, I dont want to be an early adopter then end up getting butt-screwed by M$ and they release a better updated xbox one within a year.


SOMEONE PLEASE CONVINCE ME TO KEEP MY XBONE PREORDER! PLEASE! Tell me everything is going to be ok. =[

I really don't want to start all over on the PS4 and also I'll deeply miss Halo and I want to try Titanfall. Plus I fuggin hated the PS controller ever since I laid my hands on an xbox one. But I refuse to get a subpar system. Someone give me advice, my head hurts now and I dont know what to do.

When it comes down to it, if I were you I would focus on deciding how important MS exclusives are to you.

If
MS Exclusives > Better looking/performing third party games + Sony Exclusives
Then
XB1 > PS4

If
MS Exclusives < Better looking/performing third party games + Sony Exclusives
Then
PS4 > XB1

There are obviously other things to consider, but that is the most important one right there. I wouldn't worry about the controller, as most that have used both of them say they are on par with the DS4 often coming out on top, and starting from scratch with Trophies could be a lot of fun if you really think about it.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

hyperbole throughout this thread with regard to the power differences. You will not be able to tell the games apart.

its all good. It's just some people will never admit it so they make irrelevant numbers addup to an opinion on their favorite console being more powerful

Irrelevant numbers. You did not just say that. You are what you just described you know that?

 

[StevieP]

Must be fun to go through life thinking Mark Cerney was just aimlessly wandering around the design room and "lucked" into 8GB GDDR. No chance Sony was keeping up with what their supply contractors were planning in terms of product rollout. All "luck."

The console was originally provisioned with 2GB, with a distinct but remote possibility of having 4. You don't have to believe me. If you know any developers who would be privvy to receiving the standard SDK documentation prior to launch, ask them. The "luck" happened when higher density chips were able to be earmarked in large enough quantities to deliver a console launch in November.

Typical elitist bs right there lol.

This discussion has gotten to ridiculous proportions in my opinion, and I get called elitist? Nice.

4TFlop hardware that is years old? Please direct me to these video cards that are multiple years olds and greater than 4Tf.

No seriously, I didn't know there were video cards that are 2+ years old greater tha. 4Tflop.

December 2011. Stock 7970 was 3.8tf, but factory OCed cards were sold then.