-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
2 years in, can we call BS on the "power of SSD" in new consoles?
- Thread starter justiceiro
- Start date
- Drama Hardware
ZehDon
Member
That's frustrum culling, a visual representation of the game's rendering, not loading. The things not being rendered are still in memory, they're simply culled from being drawn to save on GPU resources. This tech is pretty old, and H:ZD isn't doing anything particularly special here.
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
Ssd speed doesn't seen to matter much, but it is still an SSD.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/df-c...ade-run-ratchet-and-clank-rift-apart.1619055/
Kagey K
Banned
It was the first example I could think of doing similar to the Tweet.
Remember we also had things like Gofall saying they couldn't do what they were doing without the PS5 SSD either, and we know how that went
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/godf...owerful-ssd”-and-improved-controller.1515451/
Unless a way to show the game running on an HDD is figured out, a lot of people could never be convinced an SSD could help with graphics by freeing up reserved memory. It's one step too far and they can't wrap their heads around it.
I personally try to think of it like comparing the 3GB 1060GTX graphics card to the 6GB version which have measurable differences in benchmarks, showing that having more memory can be important. If having an SSD can free up more memory by streaming in assets as needed instead of keeping them loaded in reserve, then it should also have a measurable difference in benchmarks.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Absolutely not! You haven't seen a thing yet. Games are still being designed around spinning hard drives. Sure they utilize the API to better take advantage of the SSDs capabilities and to get the expected loading uplift from that over last gen, but that's really all it's been used for thus far. If games are designed around the massive leap in I/O performance you will notice a tremendous difference in the raw quality of visuals you're seeing simply because they're better able to bring in and swap out higher quality asset information without breaking the visual consistency of the game.
The cache scrubbers on PS5 will be something that is beneficial to that end, as will the insanely high speed of the SSD. And then on the Series X side of things, no game is currently yet utilizing Sampler Feedback Streaming. I initially assumed Halo Infinite would have been the first, but that wasn't the case. I suspect that Forza Motorsport could be the one doing it, not because of anything RT related, but because of the way they were just jumping between different views so fast in real-time. It appeared to operate like how the SFS demo did on Series X, but who knows.
Sampler Feedback Streaming is a legit game changer, and so is the PS5 SSD setup. I really don't believe we've seen anything just yet from these consoles.
If we get to 2024-2025 before really seeing anything that proves this out, then maybe we can revisit. And sometimes even when the tech might be there developers may just not have a plan in mind on how to do anything much with it beyond the usual just yet.
The cache scrubbers on PS5 will be something that is beneficial to that end, as will the insanely high speed of the SSD. And then on the Series X side of things, no game is currently yet utilizing Sampler Feedback Streaming. I initially assumed Halo Infinite would have been the first, but that wasn't the case. I suspect that Forza Motorsport could be the one doing it, not because of anything RT related, but because of the way they were just jumping between different views so fast in real-time. It appeared to operate like how the SFS demo did on Series X, but who knows.
Sampler Feedback Streaming is a legit game changer, and so is the PS5 SSD setup. I really don't believe we've seen anything just yet from these consoles.
If we get to 2024-2025 before really seeing anything that proves this out, then maybe we can revisit. And sometimes even when the tech might be there developers may just not have a plan in mind on how to do anything much with it beyond the usual just yet.
Last edited:
ZehDon
Member
Sure, but they're still two entirely different things. H:ZD isn't doing something similar to the tweet.
With that said, Godfall being on PS4 and operating on PCs without high end SSDs demonstrates the lie the developer tried to sell due to their PlayStation exclusivity deal. That Sony is also working on improving the porting process to PC for their first party titles via dedicated porting studios should also highlight that, frankly, the PS5's SSD isn't all that fundamental, and more of a "nice to have".
darrylgorn
Member
Here's a fun comparison of the steam deck ssd drive loading times vs mini sd cards.
The results will surprise you.
The results will surprise you.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Double post
Last edited:
Guilty_AI
Member
It can help. It can improve on the proccess of how they're made, but not how they're played.
The games people will be (or already are) calling "true next gen" won't really be different from the stuff we already have, they'll just look prettier.
The thing some people don't realize is that all this faster storage does is, mostly, remove a bottleneck that had been growing through the generations. This bottleneck wasn't hampering game design, it was hampering visual quality. Storage speed grew at a considerably lower curve than graphical rendering quality.
Problem is there were a selection of devs that were choosing to sacrifice game design for higher fidelity in their games, and those are the ones now saying "how revolutionary" all of this SSD stuff is. Now they can finally do things that were always possible and have been done before, but prettier.
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
But not necessary for that game as I showed in post #154 just up this page.
Kagey K
Banned
I agree that the QOL speeds that SSDs have brought are great, but the hyperbole surrounding them prior to launch was essentially just that.
Isn't this video just proving that some PCs have a bottleneck when loading and decompressing from storage?
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
So he's testing warps, Insomniac (in my screenshot) are talking about devoting the memory budget to what's in front of you, it could be any given number of scenes in the game. I'm sure he didn't test all of them
Also Rift Apart is an early gen game
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
It didn't fail, if it did I'm sure they would have dug deeper.
Regardless now everyone has all shapes and sizes of SSD inside some PS5, so that utra fast built in is negligible, as the games are going to have to account for various configurations
Oddvintagechap
Banned
The pandemic slowed down all development of entertainment. And most video games nowadays are huge, way longer development times. Don’t expect to next gen games till 4 years into PS5’s life.
I think the next Rachet Game is going to blow rift apart apart. They are going to do so many SSD specific loading tricks.
I think the next Rachet Game is going to blow rift apart apart. They are going to do so many SSD specific loading tricks.
Kagey K
Banned
I don't know if there will be another Ratchet and Clank, they seem to be a Marvel studio now.
Last edited:
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yes, and the requirements are there so that every future game can run efficiently without going haywire
Hoddi
Member
It’s all relative. Could you tell the difference between 500MB read in 0.1s on SSD vs 10s on HDD? Probably yes.
But could you tell the difference between 0.1s on one SSD vs 0.2s on a different SSD? Probably no.
These are actual numbers from R&C running on PS5.
Last edited:
NinjaBoiX
Member
Fixed.
Your answer is right there in your OP, proper next gen software isn’t really available yet, besides a handful of titles.
Kagey K
Banned
So you agree that the crazy I/O and speeds really make no difference?
Interesting.
Those requirements are way below even the Xbox Series SSD.
Kagey K
Banned
With the variety of speeds they allow in the PS5 can anyone tell a difference? It's not like someone is having a vastly different experience playing thier games on a $1000 SSD vs a 200 SSD.
Last edited:
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
How'd you get that out of my reply??
As games get more demanding with all of this data streaming, games need to be future proof, hence the SSD requirements
Kagey K
Banned
I was going of Sonys spec sheet, the SSD requirements are for the extra drive.How'd you get that out of my reply??
As games get more demanding with all of this data streaming, games need to be future proof, hence the SSD requirements.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/sony-details-ssd-requirements-for-ps5-storage-expansion
It's not that hard.
You agreed the requirements are there to "stop the game from going haywire"
So essentially the "superboosted" SSD has no bearing on gameplay or performance
According to Sony themselves.
Last edited:
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
So 5,500MB/s reads are bad now?
Last edited:
Kagey K
Banned
Never said either of those things.It's nice to know you're already testing games that studios haven't released
So 5,500MB/s reads are bad now?
I'm just looking at the reality now.
If you want to make up arguements, that's on you.
Show me where I said 5,500 mbs/second was bad. I can wait.
Last edited:
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
So if I get a game in 2024 and it doesn't run due to me not having the SSD with the right requirements, that's saying it was needed right?
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I'm done bro. You win
Kagey K
Banned
If Sony said the drive would work and it doesn't, that's on them.
But you keep putting words in my mouth I didn't say.
I am going off of known specs now, and thier official literature.
Kagey K
Banned
It's not about winning or losing. If I was wrong, I'd admit to it. (And have many times in the past)
Most ppl here seem adverse to the task.
I provided many links as proof throught this thread, and nobody has countered it with any evidence.
Just lol emojis and feelings posts
Last edited:
bender
What time is it?
So in other words you don’t have proof.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The requirement is 5.5 GB/s reads
And all that is possible with more ram. I’m not saying ssd are not beneficial. I’m saying they don’t improve image quality. They are just being used as a ram substitute.I'm posting this one more time in case you missed it
bitbydeath
Member
???
Try refresh your screen?
Don’t push bullcrap.
Edit: goto about the 1:55 mark. He says the entire level is loaded in memory. No ssd even required. You could run this on a standard hard drive. The initial load would just be long.
Last edited:
MarkMe2525
Banned
While i agree with you in that the SSD's have benefited my gaming experiences with shorter load times and quick resume. In the OP, he specifically pointed to the claims that the ssd would allow for gameplay mechanics and worlds that were not possible on last gen. While the faster loading has been a Godsend, the games you mentioned could absolutely to played on last Gen minus some graphical flourishes.
It seems disingenuous to say he is "extremely wrong" all while never addressing his actual claims.
Kagey K
Banned
But that's not true.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22608153/ps5-ssd-speed-test-storage-expansion-m2-playstation-5
Even if it was, it's just an average SSD.
So
fran.fernandez
Member
I die i respawn… don’t even remember I had to wait before lol.
Kagey K
Banned
Last edited:
Definitely a nice aspect of a fast ssd. I always hated waiting on loading screens.
bender
What time is it?
Agreed but it feels like Cerny's presentation on the SSD capabilities are being oversold. In the past developers would hide level transitions in load times through things like cutscenes (Max Payne 3), slow walk and talk sections down a small hallway (Gears of War) or crawling/squeezing through a narrow space (Tomb Raider/Uncharted). Think of that like an hour glass, with the top and bottom being two levels and the middle being how level transition/load is being hidden. With the SSD solutions in both scenarios, that middle section should become much wider and barely hinder the flow of sand.
Has that paid dividends in games yet? Maybe R&C. We are still seeing a lot of cross generational developed games where the benefit is just the brute force speed in the newer systems. And even if a game isn't cross generation, old habits are hard to break.
The biggest benefits will be load times and being able to use more textures than you typically could with only 16GB of ram. It is definitely beneficial on all platforms.
Kagey K
Banned
Or it won't break. They still want to get thier hours of exposition, regardless of if the game is loaded or not
You can't just play it, you need to feel it